The Doctrine of OSAS

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justaname

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StanJ said:
Again this is because your TULIP won't allow you to consider it. When you read 2 Peter 3:9 (NIV), what does it tell you,
or John 3:16 & 18 (NIV)?
Because this post is a red herring...

What I can't comprehend is why people would think God would start saving someone that He knows will eventually apostatize. God is omniscient and logical. This premise goes against both of these traits of God.

Salvation is not something to be lost, it can only be gained.

Every time you read a warning passage ask yourself, "Self, which soil is God talking about here?"

Jesus states He will not lose any the Father has given to Him. These are those whose names have been in the Lambs book of life since before the foundations of the world. Jesus says "I, myself! Will raise them at the last day..."

What part of that do people not believe?
 

Barrd

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StanJ said:
yeh my teachers used to say that But I never believed them. Never did understand or have the patience for Elizabethan English.

You appear to be smart now, but that doesn't mean scholarly does it? Just sayin.
It is my contention that the Bible is intended for simple people.
Fishermen. Carpenters. Tentmakers. Housewives.

When God sent His Holy Angels to announce the Birth of the Lord of Israel, did He send them to scholars?
No. He sent them to a bunch of simple shepherds.

When Jesus chose His Apostles, did He look to the learned doctors and lawyers of His day?
No. He chose simple fisher folk.

Paul had perhaps the finest education available to a young Jew...he was brought up at the feet of the great Gamaliel.
But it did nothing to help Him recognize His Lord and Savior. He went about to destroy the church in its infancy.
It wasn't until Jesus knocked him off his high horse and blinded him that he was able to see the truth.

I have nothing against education. I busted my cute li'l....erm....I worked hard to get myself an Associate's in Legal Studies. Okay, it might not seem like much next to someone with a PHD or a Master's....but it got me a nice little job that let me take care of seven healthy kids comfortably.

But when it comes to the things of God...well, education doesn't seem to help much. Every denomination I know of has it's universities...and they all teach something different.
Perhaps we'd be better off if we could just be content to let God be our Professor. After all...if we miss out on His Graduation Day...
 

Barrd

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I can't repeat it too often. There are many passages of scripture that are in direct opposition to the OSAS doctrine.
For instance:

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Now, these people were obviously born-again Christians.

They were "once enlightened"...that light only comes from Christ.

They had "tasted of the heavenly gift"...the heavenly gift comes from Christ

They were made "partakers of the Holy Spirit"...uh, who is it that partakes of the Holy Spirit? Born-again Christians.

They had "tasted the good word of God"....again, that would be Christ.

And "the powers of the world to come."....it may seem redundant, but these guys were definitely born-again Christians.

There is no point at all in trying to say that their faith was not heart-faith, or that they "had no root in them." The fact is that these were born-again Christians, just like any one of us, and they fell away.

This passage alone proves that OSAS is a false doctrine.
 

Barrd

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Did Jesus really "do away" with the Ten Commandments?
Or are Christians still required to keep them?
What does Jesus truly teach about God's Law?
Commandment 1 "You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve" (Mat 4:10). "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and the great commandment" (Mat 22:37). "And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength. This is the first commandment" (Mk 12:30). "You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve" (Luke 4:8).
Commandment 2 "You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve" (Mat 4:10). "You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve" (Luke 4:8). "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth" (John 4:24). "But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam...to eat things sacrificed to idols" (Rev 2:14). "Nevertheless, I have a few things against you, because you allow...My servants to...eat things sacrificed to idols" (Rev 2:20).
Commandment 3 "Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men" (Mat 12:31). "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts,...blasphemies. These are the things which defile a man" (Mat 15:19-20).
Commandment 4 "What man is there among you who has one sheep, and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out? Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath" (Mat 12:11-12). "And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath" (Mat 24:20); there would be no reason to pray this if the Sabbath was not going to be in existence. "And He said to them, 'The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath'" (Mk 2:27); this verse tells all who will see which day is the Lord's Day. "And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue" (Mk 6:2). "And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read" (Luke 4:16). "Then He went down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and was teaching them on the Sabbaths" (Luke 4:31). "The Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath...Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do evil, to save life or to destroy?" (Luke 6:5,9). "But the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath...The Lord then answered him and said, 'Hypocrite...So ought not this woman...be loosed from this bond on the Sabbath?'" (Luke (13:14-16). "'Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?'...And they could not answer Him regarding these things" (Luke 14:3,6). "are you angry with Me because I made a man completely well on the Sabbath?" (John 7:23).
Commandment 5 "For God commanded saying, 'Honor your father and your mother' and 'He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death'" (Mat 15:4). "Honor your father and your mother" (Mat 19:19). "Honor your father and your mother" (Mk 7:10). "Honor your father and your mother" (Mk 10:19). "You know the commandments:...Honor your father and your mother" (Luke 18:20).
Commandment 6 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder', and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment. But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment" (Mat 5:21-22). "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders...These are the things which defile a man" (Mat 15:19-20). "You shall not murder" (Mat 19:18). "...murders...All these evil things come from within and defile a man" (Mk 7:21,23). "Do not murder" (Mk 10:19). "You know the commandments:...Do not murder" (Luke 18:20).
Commandment 7 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not commit adultery'. But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Mat 5:27-28). "But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery" (Mat 5:32). "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts...adulteries, fornications...These are the things which defile a man" (Mat 15:19-20). "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery, and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery" (Mat 19:9). "You shall not commit adultery" (Mat 19:18). "...adulteries, fornications...All these evil things come from within and defile a man" (Mk 7:21,23). "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her. And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery" (Mk 10:11-12). "Do not commit adultery" (Mk 10:19). "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced from her husband commits adultery" (Luke 16:18). "You know the commandments: Do not commit adultery" (Luke 18:20). "'Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery'...And Jesus said to her...'sin no more'" (John 8:4,11). "Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation" (Rev 2:22).
Commandment 8 "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts...thefts...These are the things which defile a man" (Mat 15:19-20). "You shall not steal" (Mat 19:18). "It is written, 'My house shall be called a house of prayer', but you have made it a den of thieves" (Mat 21:13). "...thefts...All these evil things come from within and defile a man" (Mk 7:22-23). "Do not steal" (Mk 10:19). "You know the commandments:... Do not steal" (Luke 18:20).
Commandment 9 "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord. But I say to you, do not swear at all" (Mat 5:33-34). "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts...false witness...These are the things which defile a man" (Mat 15:19-20). "You shall not bear false witness" (Mat 19:18). "Do not bear false witness" (Mk 10:19). "You know the commandments:...Do not bear false witness" (Luke 18:20). "And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars" (Rev 2:2).
Commandment 10 "Do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, nor about your body, what you will put on" (Mat 6:25). "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts...These are the things which defile a man" (Mat 15:19-20). "...covetousness...All these evil things come from within and defile a man" (Mk 7:22-23).
"I have kept My Father's commandments" (John 15:10).
http://www.cogwriter.com/command.htm

Doesn't it seem odd that Jesus would spend all this time teaching people to keep the Commandments, if obedience is not necessary?
If we break these laws....can we lose our salvation?
Hmmmm....
 

justaname

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Hebrews 6:4 is the most difficult passage to reconcile concerning the "loss of salvation" issue, so for now I will only address this one.

The text infers that believers can apostatize. What I see is the concern of expressed followers of Christ returning to Judaism. As they are enlightened, have tasted of the heavenly gift, and been made partakers of the Holy Spirt, it is difficult to deny a regenerate state, although some still do.

As before mentioned I had a Hebrews class where the professor did His doctorate on this book. His contention is the continual theme in the book of Hebrews of the nation people of Israel wandering through the desert being the people alluded to here and a simile being drawn. The wanderers were enlightened through the knowledge of God; the heavenly gift being the manna from heaven; and the Holy Spirit being the cloud by day and fire by night. These then are the true subject being spoken of..."For in the case of those"...

This is a strong case and shows validity still allowing for a natural reading of the text. Those reading the text would relate as it is a reoccurring theme, the wandering nation people, throughout the book.

Yet my contention has never been inability of apostasy, rather apostasy is the evidence of the lack of saving faith. From God's perspective the apostate was never in His plan for salvation. This then still affirms the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints. God in His omniscience only "saves" those who are His. This to me invalidates the term "lose your salvation".

It is also possible the author is concerned not of the entire group apostatizing, rather is attempting to strengthen the waning portion. "Partakers" can then mean those who are surrounded by believers that will not apostatize, thus affiliated with the visible Church.

Bible Knowledge Commentary:

6:4–6. This passage has been interpreted in four ways: (1) that the danger of a Christian losing his salvation is described, a view rejected because of biblical assurances that salvation is a work of God which cannot be reversed; (2) that the warning is against mere profession of faith short of salvation, or tasting but not really partaking of salvation (The New Scofield Reference Bible, p. 1315); (3) that hypothetically if a Christian could lose his salvation, there is no provision for repentance (The Ryrie Study Bible, p. 1736); (4) that a warning is given of the danger of a Christian moving from a position of true faith and life to the extent of becoming disqualified for further service (1 Cor. 9:27) and for inheriting millennial glory. The latter is the interpretation adopted here.


Here though is the redeeming factor concerning this pericope...

9 But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way.
10 For God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love which you have shown toward His name, in having ministered and in still ministering to the saints.
11 And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end,
12 so that you will not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.


Here the fear is removed and the assurance is built again in the hearts of the believers. This portion directs the readers attention to what is called the "full assurance of hope", to not be sluggish, and to be imitators of those with great faith. It possible the author uses these strong words as a means of exhortation to stir fear in the hearts of those contemplating returning to Judaism, then confirms their assurance of perseverance. This in no way is a lie because this is the true outcome of the apostate, yet the author is convinced of better things
 

lforrest

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The Barrd said:
Did Jesus really "do away" with the Ten Commandments?
Or are Christians still required to keep them?
No and No.

Christians are required to believe in Jesus Christ and obey his commandments. His commandments will lead you to surpass the requirements in his Father's commands.
 

justaname

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For those who disagree with the perseverance of the saints doctrine they must disprove it...not just post scriptures they believe contradict God's eternal promises...

Point #1
God has chosen some from before the foundations of the world. Thier names are in the Lamb's book of Life.

Point #2
Jesus states all the Father has given to Him He will raise at the last day. He will not lose any.

Point #3
Believers are permanently sealed with the Holy Spirit until redemption.

Point #4
God has predestined those He foreknew to be conformed into th image of Christ. These also are glorified.


If you need Scripture references I can post them...
 

Barrd

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1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils

The word for "faith" here is definitely heart-faith.

G4102 (Strong)

And the word for "depart" means exactly that:
G868 (Strong)

ἀφίστημι

aphistēmi

af-is'-tay-mee

From G575 and G2476; to remove, that is, (actively) instigate to revolt; usually (reflexively) to desist, desert, etc.: - depart, draw (fall) away, refrain, withdraw self.

Total KJV occurrences: 15

πίστις

pistis

pis'-tis

From G3982; persuasion, that is, credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly constancy in such profession; by extension the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself: - assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.

Total KJV occurrences: 244

The notion that someone leaving the faith just didn't have "real" faith is proven false.
 

Barrd

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lforrest said:
No and No.

Christians are required to believe in Jesus Christ and obey his commandments. His commandments will lead you to surpass the requirements in his Father's commands.
Good point, Forrest.
Jesus definitely raised the bar...yet it's still the Ten Commandments...just seen through the Lord's eyes...
 

justaname

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Then to speak of the fallacy of "losing your salvation".

Point#1
If this were true all God's promises would be pointless. God can not keep you, you must keep yourself. Thereby you must earn your salvation through obedience.

Point#2
It goes against the nature and character of God. Being logical and omniscient God saves those that are saved, not those who apostate or exclude themselves because of excess sin.

Point #3
If salvation is lost through excess sinning Jesus' death on the cross does not fully atone for sin. If Jesus does not fully atone for sin, no one is ever going to be saved.

Point#4
If one loses their salvation our Good Shephard does not keep His flock.

Point #5
If God does not supersede the will of humanity both Jesus and the Holy Spirit is powerless in their intecessory role.
 

justaname

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The Barrd said:
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils

The word for "faith" here is definitely heart-faith.

G4102 (Strong)

And the word for "depart" means exactly that:
G868 (Strong)

ἀφίστημι

aphistēmi

af-is'-tay-mee

From G575 and G2476; to remove, that is, (actively) instigate to revolt; usually (reflexively) to desist, desert, etc.: - depart, draw (fall) away, refrain, withdraw self.

Total KJV occurrences: 15

πίστις

pistis

pis'-tis

From G3982; persuasion, that is, credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly constancy in such profession; by extension the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself: - assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.

Total KJV occurrences: 244

The notion that someone leaving the faith just didn't have "real" faith is proven false.
Prove it is "heart faith" with supporting scripture...
Prove God intended to save these spoken of before hand as falling away from the faith...IOW prove they had salvation then lost it...

Or better stated make a case for your argument. You simply state it unsupported.
 

justaname

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The Barrd said:
Are predestination and OSAS the same thing?
No OSAS is Once Saved Always Saved.

Predestination is a predetermined outcome. Biblically it is based on God's foreknowledge. In Romans 8 it is for those He foreknew as "predestined" to be conformed into the image of His Son. In Revelation 13 they are predestined to be taken captive.

If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints. Revelation 13:10
 
B

brakelite

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justaname said:
Then to speak of the fallacy of "losing your salvation".

Point#1
If this were true all God's promises would be pointless. God can not keep you, you must keep yourself. Thereby you must earn your salvation through obedience.
God keeps you most assuredly, on condition we abide in Him. When we deliberately turn away from Him, He cannot keep us because God does not over-ride our will.
Point#2
It goes against the nature and character of God. Being logical and omniscient God saves those that are saved, not those who apostate or exclude themselves because of excess sin.
It is not 'excess sin', if there is such a thing, but repenting of our repentance.
Point #3
If salvation is lost through excess sinning Jesus' death on the cross does not fully atone for sin. If Jesus does not fully atone for sin, no one is ever going to be saved.
See above
Point#4
If one loses their salvation our Good Shephard does not keep His flock.
The shepherd seeks and saves them which are lost...not those who know exactly where they are and want to stay there.There are many sadly that have backslid, who know they are no longer in the faith, and have no desire, at least yet, to return. Thus their apostasy is deliberate, their hearts are cold, and they are no longer attached to the vine, their fruits no doubt confirming their position. Their destiny, except they repent, is to be burnt.
Point #5
If God does not supersede the will of humanity both Jesus and the Holy Spirit is powerless in their intecessory role.
If heaven is going to have people there whose will to be there was over-riden by God aren't they going to be a miserable bunch to be with?
 

Barrd

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...following a Jewish carpenter...
First of all, God is not a προσωπολήπτης.
That is, God does not exhibit partiality.

Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

1Pe 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

But the false doctrine of predestination is a topic for a different thread.
This thread is about "Once Saved Always Saved".
 

justaname

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brakelite said:
Then to speak of the fallacy of "losing your salvation".

Point#1
If this were true all God's promises would be pointless. God can not keep you, you must keep yourself. Thereby you must earn your salvation through obedience.
God keeps you most assuredly, on condition we abide in Him. When we deliberately turn away from Him, He cannot keep us because God does not over-ride our will.
Point#2
It goes against the nature and character of God. Being logical and omniscient God saves those that are saved, not those who apostate or exclude themselves because of excess sin.
It is not 'excess sin', if there is such a thing, but repenting of our repentance.
Point #3
If salvation is lost through excess sinning Jesus' death on the cross does not fully atone for sin. If Jesus does not fully atone for sin, no one is ever going to be saved.
See above
Point#4
If one loses their salvation our Good Shephard does not keep His flock.
The shepherd seeks and saves them which are lost...not those who know exactly where they are and want to stay there.There are many sadly that have backslid, who know they are no longer in the faith, and have no desire, at least yet, to return. Thus their apostasy is deliberate, their hearts are cold, and they are no longer attached to the vine, their fruits no doubt confirming their position. Their destiny, except they repent, is to be burnt.
Point #5
If God does not supersede the will of humanity both Jesus and the Holy Spirit is powerless in their intecessory role.
If heaven is going to have people there whose will to be there was over-riden by God aren't they going to be a miserable bunch to be with?
The response to the first point is invalid. You did not support your case.

The response to the second point does not speak to the apostate nor dispute the argument. It is a red herring. Repentance does not atone for sin, Jesus' death on the cross does.

The response to the third point is based on the same false premise.

The fourth response does not answer the premise. If a shepard goes to the field with 10 sheep and comes back with 9 he lost one...that simple. It does not matter if the sheep wandered, it was the Shephard's responsibility.

The fifth response does nothing to answer the premise. Jesus and the Holy Spirit can not intercede in your life if they can not go against your will. They can not have you feel guilt, grief, or anything else. They are powerless.

To answer your question I would say the people would be grateful they were saved from themselves.
 

justaname

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The Barrd said:
First of all, God is not a προσωπολήπτης.
That is, God does not exhibit partiality.

Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

1Pe 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

But the false doctrine of predestination is a topic for a different thread.
This thread is about "Once Saved Always Saved".
God is definitely partial. He chose Israel for His namesake. He chose Jacob over Easu. He chose Noah. He chose the 12 apostles. God shows unwarranted favor (grace) to those who believe in the name of His only begotten Son. God hates wickedness and rejoices in righteousness.

You have a skewed view of what is being conveyed as not being a respecter of persons. This does not contradict God predestining some to be conformed into the image of Christ.
 

justaname

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12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.
14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. - Revelation 20:12-15

God knows every name in every book...only those in the book of life are saved from the second death. This event is not future for our eternal God. He is the Alpha and Omega. All these events are yet to happen for us, but God is beyond time. This is why you can't lose your salvation..this is why some are elected...

Here is the rub...we are not eternal like God, so we must abide to gain salvation. The exhortations are real. The warning passages have validity in our lives because not all abide. Sin is not the issue because Jesus atones for sin but unbelief will cause a branch to wither. Do we have the ability to remain in willful sin? May the thought never enter your mind! Jesus' atonement is not to be mocked! God is just, and all unrighteousness will be judged. True Christians do not seek sin rather they avoid it. Yet if they stumble Jesus and the Holy Spirit will go against thier will and create circumstances to bring about good for even that. God works all things for the good of those who love Him! Believers have an Advocate before the Father interceding for them.

Thank you God for not leaving me subject to my desire to sin and creating me anew! I pray those outside of Christ repent and turn to Him the salvation you provide! In Jesus Name. Amen.
 

Barrd

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...following a Jewish carpenter...
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

How anyone can read these verses, and still hold to the OSAS doctrine is beyond my poor understanding...
 

justaname

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The Barrd said:
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

How anyone can read these verses, and still hold to the OSAS doctrine is beyond my poor understanding...
Then you still do not understand the parable of the four soils. First, second, and third soils. Only the good soil has salvation...