What evangelists will tell you, but pastors very rarely do

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John Zain

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“Go therefore and make DISCIPLES of all the nations
teaching them to observe ALL things that I have commanded you (Matt 28:19-20)

An old rationalization … It is NOT required to be a disciple to make heaven,
i.e. why not just cruise on the easy OSAS road? (which actually is the broad road)

The main job of a disciple is to OBEY.
IMO, obedient disciples are the only ones Jesus intends to be in heaven.
Side trip: What are we going to do with “all the nations”?
IMO, God desires to save “some” people from every “nation” (small people group).

These “some” are given the free gift of grace-faith, but this just gets them started!

Sanctification consists of 2 stages:
positional (set apart) sanctification …and… progressive sanctification.

“For many are called, but few chosen” (Matt 20:16)
GROUP-1 … IMO, the few called-and-chosen refers to God’s elect in Rom 8:28-30.
GROUP-2 … the many called-but-not-chosen have done their own choosing
to not develop a close personal relationship with the Lord, and
to not co-operate with the Holy Spirit in the sanctification process.

Jesus addresses Group-2: “I never knew you; depart from Me” (Matt 7:23).
They did not really know the Father and the Son resulting in eternal life (John 17:3).

Group-1 obedient disciples will perseverse all the way through to the end (Heb 3:14).
“He has made perfect forever those who are being made holy” (Heb 10:14)
“For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.” (Rom 8:14)
Progressive sanctification ties in with several demanding verses, such as:
“Pursue … holiness, without which no one will see the Lord.” (Heb 12:14)
“… having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness,
and the end, everlasting life.” (Rom 6:22)

“the Helper … He will convict the world of sin” (John 16:7-8)
He will convict everyone of their sin: the unsaved, the born-again, everyone.
The GOAL is to eliminate sin … with the indispensible help of the Holy Spirit.
Believers are convicted by God’s Spirit, but they must be willing to co-operate.

The above falls in line with the great multitude of warnings about not sinning.

Paul instructs the church: “beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness
of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.” (2 Cor 7:1).
“For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation” (2 Cor 7:10).
John instructs the church: “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to
forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:9).
Do this to invoke (apply) the cleansing power of the precious blood of Jesus.

In the NT we have this incredible mixture of Blessings, Explanations,
Exhortations … and Warnings that the Blessings are conditional.
The simple Blessings are hooks to catch the little fishes.
Then Jesus Warns to first count the cost of discipleship.
Paul constantly gives Exhortations and encouragement.
And we are Warned that the Blessings are conditional.

All of the many dozens of Warnings are there for a reason!
“Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith.” (2 Cor 13:5)
“be even more diligent to make your call and election sure” (2 Pet 1:10)
An example of a Warning in the form of an optimistic Exhortation:
“But we are not of those who draw back (from living by faith) to perdition,
but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.” (Heb 10:39)
 

bytheway

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evangelist-7 said:
Jesus addresses Group-2: “I never knew you; depart from Me” (Matt 7:23).
They did not really know the Father and the Son resulting in eternal life (John 17:3).

Mat.7:22 many will say to me in that day Lord, Lord have we not prophesied in your name, cast out demons in your name, and done many wonders in your name? These were known, just not intimately. They were belivers, how else could do what they did! The holy spirit moved them and enabled them to do what they did. They couldn't lie to Jesus. I don't think anyone of them would not take credit for the wonders displayed.
 

Warrior

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I see many churches teaching celebration and not conviction. Everyone needs to repent, Celebration can actually keep us from concentration.
 

Angelina

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Isaiah 55
Seek the Lord while he may be found;
call on him while he is near.
7 Let the wicked forsake their ways
and the unrighteous their thoughts.
Let them turn to the Lord, and he will have mercy on them,
and to our God, for he will freely pardon.

8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
 

aspen

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bytheway said:
Liberalness is a mental disease - Michael Savage.
Actually, conservatism is much closer to mental illness - a life rooted in fear; a rigid mindset that rejects change and idealizes the past; legalistic and prone to conspiracies - yep, sounds crazy to me.
 

7angels

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here are a few points i need clarification on to see if i am missing your meaning or if you and i disagree on the following.
evangelist-7 said:
An old rationalization … It is NOT required to be a disciple to make heaven,
i.e. why not just cruise on the easy OSAS road? (which actually is the broad road)
do you believe the osas doctrine?

IMO, God desires to save “some” people from every “nation” (small people group).
i thought is was God's desire to save everyone?
These “some” are given the free gift of grace-faith, but this just gets them started!
i thought everyone is offered the free gift of grace and faith and we just need to accept it?

Jesus addresses Group-2: “I never knew you; depart from Me” (Matt 7:23).
They did not really know the Father and the Son resulting in eternal life (John 17:3).
just because we don't follow God's perfect plan of our lives does not mean we are not entering heaven.

The simple Blessings are hooks to catch the little fishes.
what are you referring to when you say catch the little fishes?
God bless
 

HeRoseFromTheDead

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Jan 6, 2012
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evangelist-7 said:
Sanctification consists of 2 stages:
Positional (set apart) sanctification …and… progressive sanctification.
Progressive sanctification = Walk in Christ Jesus the Lord as you received him (in your positional sanctification). Colossians 2:6


aspen2 said:
Actually, conservatism is much closer to mental illness - a life rooted in fear; a rigid mindset that rejects change and idealizes the past; legalistic and prone to conspiracies - yep, sounds crazy to me.
Man, are you drunk on stereotypes!

Angelina said:
Isaiah 55
Seek the Lord while he may be found;
call on him while he is near.
7 Let the wicked forsake their ways
and the unrighteous their thoughts.
Let them turn to the Lord, and he will have mercy on them,
and to our God, for he will freely pardon.

8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Beautiful; balm for the soul.

Inmate said:
I see many churches teaching celebration and not conviction. Everyone needs to repent, Celebration can actually keep us from concentration.
Good insight.

bytheway said:
Jesus addresses Group-2: “I never knew you; depart from Me” (Matt 7:23).
They did not really know the Father and the Son resulting in eternal life (John 17:3).

Mat.7:22 many will say to me in that day Lord, Lord have we not prophesied in your name, cast out demons in your name, and done many wonders in your name? These were known, just not intimately. They were belivers, how else could do what they did! The holy spirit moved them and enabled them to do what they did. They couldn't lie to Jesus. I don't think anyone of them would not take credit for the wonders displayed.
No, I think it's more that they believed in their minds that Jesus is lord (but not their hearts), and deluded themselves into thinking that all the 'great' stuff they did was for GOD.
 

John Zain

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Angelina said:
Isaiah 55
Seek the Lord while he may be found;
call on him while he is near.
7 Let the wicked forsake their ways
and the unrighteous their thoughts.
Let them turn to the Lord, and he will have mercy on them,
and to our God, for he will freely pardon.


8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
I have used verses 8 & 9 countless times, but I don't see how they fit in the context of the OP.
Would you care to explain?

7angels said:
here are a few points i need clarification on to see if i am missing your meaning
or if you and i disagree on the following.
do you believe the osas doctrine?
no

i thought is was God's desire to save everyone?
He would like to, but because of man's sin nature, only a few are willing to please/satisfy Him.

i thought everyone is offered the free gift of grace and faith and we just need to accept it?
IMO, He only gives this gift to some humans ... see Romans 9 for example.

just because we don't follow God's perfect plan of our lives does not mean we are not entering heaven.
Several Scriptures say we must be obedient to God's will, which includes quite a lot of things.

what are you referring to when you say catch the little fishes?
IMO, the simple gospel can easily hook whomever the Father ordains to believe it.
 

HeRoseFromTheDead

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Jan 6, 2012
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evangelist-7 said:
I have used verses 8 & 9 countless times, but I don't see how they fit in the context of the OP.
Would you care to explain?
That is the walk of faith, isn't it? Seek the lord; forsake evil; turn to GOD trusting in his mercy; trust in GOD even when we don't understand. Sounds like a blameless walk to me.
 

John Zain

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Isaiah 55

8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the Lord.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways

and my thoughts than your thoughts.

I have used this often trying to explain how useless is intellect, education, logic, reasoning, etc.
when it comes to understanding God and the things of the Spirit.
 

John Zain

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evangelist-7 said:
All they (at the time of Isaiah) had was their prophets and their reasoning ... period.
They had no Holy Spirit to guide them.
There is never any mention of any ordinary OT person having anything to do with God's Spirit.
It was obvious that their spiritual guidance only came from God's prophets.
An exception: Balaam's donkey, whom God spoke through.

Why would anyone even consider believing otherwise? ... There would have to be a motive.
Like belonging to some cult?