The Godhead

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101G

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Only one person in the Godhead


2 ChurchAuthority
Revelation 1:17 "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death

Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.
Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
is this the SAME PERSON Yes or No?.
 

HammerStone

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Actually be very careful where you tread with your terms.

Using the historical creeds of Christianity (accepted by Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox), it is one God, three persons (the Athanasian Creed states this outright). The Godhead is representative of the one God aspect of our understanding, but the Godhead is most decidedly comprised of 3 persons, Father, Son and Spirit. It would be better to say there is one God in the Godhead.
 

domenic

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This thread sounds like the blind leading the blind. Yes the is one God the father. Gods son, Jesus our Lord, and Gods acting force. Three, all one in purpose, and direction.
Just like when 3,000 were baptized, Jesus said, "Father, let these be ONE WITH ME, AS I AM ONE WITH YOU."
There were not 3,000 more Jesus's, or 3,000 more Gods. There were 3,000 more of Gods creatures trying to go in the same direction as Jesus in serving the Father...the one true living God.
 

101G

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2 domenic
if you believe that there are separate Person in the Godhead, then post your scriptures to prove your point
 

afaithfulone4u

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I don't know how much plainer it can be to understand that The Father, The Word and the Spirit are all one God yet we see them in scripture as 3 different entities, yet we respect them all 3 as God. Why would we need to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son/The Word and the Holy Ghost if they were not all 3 God?

Matt 28:19
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
KJV
1 John 5:7
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
KJV

1 Cor 11:3
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
KJV


John 16:23
23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
KJV
Luke 10:21
21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.
KJV
Luke 10:22
22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.
KJV

We do not call the Father Jesus, we come to the Father using the name Jesus as a son for we are in Christ, hidden under the blood and the Father sees us as the Firstborn IF we are abiding in THE WORD of course. God is all attributes of male and female and creates all things by The Word whom is Jesus. Jesus is the WORD OF LIFE that was manifested in the flesh to die on the cross to be resurrected as our new covenant Word that binds us to the Father as His children. You can not come to the Father, unless you are willing to receive The Word whom we must agree to follow. In the beginning was The Word and the Word was WITH God and the Word WAS God.
Jesus is the Word of God and the Father is his Head and you can not separate a man from his word they are the same. The only time God was separated from His Word is when He forsook His Word was on the cross for our sakes.
Jesus speaking said:
John 20:17
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
KJV

Rev 3:12
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
KJV
 

101G

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2 a4,
I don't know how much plainer it can be to understand that The Father, The Word and the Spirit are all one God yet we see them in scripture as 3 different entities, yet we respect them all 3 as God. Why would we need to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son/The Word and the Holy Ghost if they were not all 3 God?

Matt 28:19
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
KJV
1 John 5:7
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
KJV


1 Cor 11:3
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
KJV


that's the problem a4, our Lord said, baptizing them in the name, not name(s). for it is only one Name, and that name is JESUS. father, son, and Holy Ghost are only titles, or appellative of God. and these titles, or Epithet, father, word, and Spirits, are just that, "TITLES. and not PERSONS. men have made a title, a common noun into a person. Father is not a person, the word father is just a common noun. its so common, even the devil have it. "father of lies". see the point Lord is not a name, but a title. Saviour is not a name, see the point here. men have taken titles and made persons out of titles. there is only one Spirit, and his Epithet is Holy. for be ye Holy for I AM Holy. Holy is his character, or the characteristics of his NATURE, which is Spirit. hence Holy Spirit. Son Spiritually is anyone who shows Godlike characteristics, hence you're a son of God. hence "you must be born again, from above".
titles have deceived men, thinking that a title is a person. example, John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven". read your commentary on this verse and you will see who is in heaven, and at the same time on earth. the Same Spirit in that fleshly is also in heaven, and every where else at the same time.

and two, Jesus the Christ is the Father in Flesh and blood, Scripture Isaiah 9:6 lets us know that.

Rev 3:12
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

you really need to look at that verse again, it will tell you that the one who writes his name is the one, and only true God.
 

101G

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Greeting in the name of the Lord Jesus.

well it seems like churchauthority, can't or want participate in the topic that he asked for. and it seems like its you and I ChristRoseFromTheDead.
since a4 brought up the name of God this is a good place to start.

so ChristRoseFromTheDead you believe in three person of the Godhead. if you will, please start by giving each individual Person, personal name, not a title, but the Proper noun of each of your individual Person in your Godhead.

thanks in advance.
 

afaithfulone4u

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101G said:
2 a4,
I don't know how much plainer it can be to understand that The Father, The Word and the Spirit are all one God yet we see them in scripture as 3 different entities, yet we respect them all 3 as God. Why would we need to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son/The Word and the Holy Ghost if they were not all 3 God?

Matt 28:19
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
KJV
1 John 5:7
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
KJV


1 Cor 11:3
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
KJV


that's the problem a4, our Lord said, baptizing them in the name, not name(s). for it is only one Name, and that name is JESUS. father, son, and Holy Ghost are only titles, or appellative of God. and these titles, or Epithet, father, word, and Spirits, are just that, "TITLES. and not PERSONS. men have made a title, a common noun into a person. Father is not a person, the word father is just a common noun. its so common, even the devil have it. "father of lies". see the point Lord is not a name, but a title. Saviour is not a name, see the point here. men have taken titles and made persons out of titles. there is only one Spirit, and his Epithet is Holy. for be ye Holy for I AM Holy. Holy is his character, or the characteristics of his NATURE, which is Spirit. hence Holy Spirit. Son Spiritually is anyone who shows Godlike characteristics, hence you're a son of God. hence "you must be born again, from above".
titles have deceived men, thinking that a title is a person. example, John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven". read your commentary on this verse and you will see who is in heaven, and at the same time on earth. the Same Spirit in that fleshly is also in heaven, and every where else at the same time.

and two, Jesus the Christ is the Father in Flesh and blood, Scripture Isaiah 9:6 lets us know that.

Rev 3:12
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

you really need to look at that verse again, it will tell you that the one who writes his name is the one, and only true God.
101G,
What would be the purpose of the Bible telling us that Jesus said something, the Holy Ghost said something and the LORD said something? Why doesn't it just say God said something if they are not different aspects of the same God? Jesus is THE WORD of God.... who agreed to take on a flesh body and die in our place. He prayed to the Father who was still in heaven yet the Bible tells us that Jesus was the exact representation of the Father in bodily form.

Yet Jesus tells us that the Father is greater than I and Jesus when baptized had the DOVE the Holy Ghost descend upon him as the Father in heaven was heard saying this is my Son in whom I am well pleased. God is Father, Son(The Word) and Holy Ghost which I believe is the mothering side of God(Dove), while called he, for God is male yet with all attributes of male and female, there are no reproductive organs for He is Spirit.

It was not the Father who became flesh and died, but the Word became flesh and fulfilled the law in human flesh in our place to be our holy sacrifice to redeem mankind. The Father forsook His Word under the fleshly law on the cross to die... then raised it/him back up on the 3rd day as our new covenant Word. When we join ourselves to Christ, we are vowing to receive the Word of God to indwell us for we can not come to the Father unless we first receive His Word as our Lord to live by. And without the baptism of the Spirit we can not hear/receive the things of God for our carnal man is not capable of understanding them for our spirit is unclean and rebels.

John 15:26
26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
KJV
John 16:8-16
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
16 A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.
KJV


Luke 3:21-22
21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,
22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
KJV
1 Cor 8:6
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
KJV

Jesus is the Word whom the Father used to create all things!

There is only the One true God who is Father Son/Word and Holy Ghost for these 3 are one having all attributes of family. I believe that the Holy Ghost is heavenly Jerusalem our mother who teaches her children to obey the Son who is the Word of the Father. For the dove represents the Peace of Jerusalem and it says the Spirit and Bride say come! The redeemed 144,000 holy virgin sons of God shall marry the bride which is heavenly Jerusalem which will come down after the 1,000 yr. millennium once they with Christ prepare a place for her.
Rev 22:17
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
KJV
Isa 62:4-5
4 Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzi-bah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.
5 For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.
KJV
 

101G

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2 a4u, greeting in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
101G,
What would be the purpose of the Bible telling us that Jesus said something, the Holy Ghost said something and the LORD said something? Why doesn't it just say God said something if they are not different aspects of the same God

What would be the purpose?. to reveal himself . and the aspects, which he did in three dispensation or Administration. the first dispensation, he is CREATOR & MAKER. his second dispensation, he is SAVIOUR & REDEEMER. and his last dispensation, which we're in now, he is COMFORTER & MEDIATOR.

Jesus is THE WORD of God.... who agreed to take on a flesh body and die in our place. He prayed to the Father who was still in heaven yet the Bible tells us that Jesus was the exact representation of the Father in bodily form.
Correction, JESUS is the ONLY TRUE SPIRIT. whom we give the Epithet, God. true, Jesus the "Christ", is the Exact representative of the Spirit, (whom you call God), in a Flesh, bone and blood body. he is the, "Allos", or the diversity of the The Eternal Spirit. let me give you a quick and short explanation. what is "a" Diversity, or Diversities of God?. a Diversity is simply a "SHARE", or expressed as "ANOTHER", meaning, an offspring, in the class, group, or sort(nature) unto their own. when we say "ANOTHER", we means of the SAME nature, be ye Spiritual, or Carnal. question how do a Diversities come into creation, or have BEING, or as we say existence?, according to the flesh, by natural or carnal birth. Spiritually according to the Spirit, a renewing of one's mind. birth, according to the flesh, G1081 gennema, which means "to beget", to cause to be ("gen"-erate). it denotes "the offspring of men and animals". (reflexively) to become (come into being). to be a partaker of flesh and blood. birth, according to the Spirit. G1085, genos denotes an "an offspring, a race, family (akin to ginomai, "to become", NOT TO BECOME INTO EXISTENCE IN CREATION AS IN NATURAL BIRTH, but to become a "SHARE", or a NEW CREATURE or a "NEW PERSON" as in Christ Jesus, having "ANOTHER" or NEW NATURE, as him, (God) according to the spirit. this renewing is in the spirit, for "his thoughts are not our thoughts, nor his ways our ways". we must be regenerated, or renewed as in a birth from above. in a Spiritual birth, one is regenerated. as in kin, meaning being related in spirit, and in mind. "a race, family" (akin to ginomai, "to become"), which denotes "an offspring,{abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective} who have the same characteristics of the same kind, class as the Root. that's why Jesus said that he was the ROOT and OFFSPRING of David. lets make it plain. G1081 gennema, which means to beget". G1085, genos means "to become". one is to beget, the other is to become. a Son or offspring is simply "another" person who have the same #1. Nature, be it carnal, or Spiritual. and #2. who have the character, or who have the same characteristics, who have the same behavior, or who have the same ways as the root or the person who it sprang from.
now to understand the diversity, as EXPRESSED as "Another". scripture, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God. 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross". this word "Form". tell us who the "CHRIST" is.
FORM: G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fay') n.
1. shape, the outward nature.
2. form, shape, outward appearance
Definition: form, shape, outward appearance.
[perhaps from the base of G3313 (through the idea of adjustment of parts)]
KJV: form
Root(s): G3313
well lets see what G3313 is.
G3313 μέρος meros (mer'-os) n.
1. a division or share
{literally or figuratively, in a wide application}
[from an obsolete but more primary form of meiromai "to get as a section or allotment"]

there it is, the Christ, the "Messiah", or the diversity, in flesh and blood is a "SHARE" of the Spirit, (whom you call God), "NATURE", in our, form or NATURE, meaning the SAME ONE, in "ANOTHER" FORM. what do "ANOTHER" mean?. not thinking in our way, but in God way. according to Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, "Another",
G243, "allos" and G2087 "heteros" both these words have a difference in meaning in "ANOTHER". which despite a tendency to be lost, is to be observed in numerous passages. Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort, (sort here means NATURE);" heteros expresses a qualitative difference and denotes "another of a different sort. examples, " Christ promised to send "another Comforter" (allos, "another like Himself," not heteros), John 14:16. Paul says "I See a different ( "another") law," heteros", a law different from that of the spirit of life (not allos, "a law of the same sort"), Rom 7:23.

LOOK THESE WORDS UP AND UNDERSTAND THEM. G243, "allos" and G2087 "heteros". Jesus the Christ is the Spirit, (whom you call God, is a SHARED, or Express in the NATURE of Flesh and Blood. lets prove it in scripture, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form (NATURE) of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God". question who is God equal?, listen, Isaiah 40:25 "To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One". and Isaiah 46:5 "To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?". listen real Good, Isaiah 45:21 "Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me". Isaiah 44:8 "Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any". if God know not any "other" God, meaning different, " heteros" from him, then Jesus the Christ must be "Allos" the "SAME", ONE, as him, only in a different, or shared nature with us. THE DIVERSIFY SHARE. meaning "Allos", the SAME ONE, of the SAME KIND, the SAME NATURE, the SAME CLASS, which is the Spirit.
Diversities are a offspring of a single person, (if according to the flesh, husband and wife as one), in a single class, or a single group, which share a single nature. who may or may not have the same form (nature), the same fashion, the same figure, the same similitude, and or the same image, (in nature), as to the one the offspring came from. also the Diversities or the offspring(s), or the shared person(s) may, and or may not manifest the same character, or moral characteristics, or behavior as of the one he, or she, sprang from. be it the characteristics, or behavior are Godly, or evil. THIS IS WHAT "A" SON IS. this is the difference in G1081, "gennema", beget. as to G1085, "genos". to become. both character, behavior, and moral characteristics are learned. supportive scripture Philippians 2:8 "And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross". listen to the definition of Son, according to Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words. SON, G5207 υἱός huios (hwee-os') n. primarily signifies the relation of offspring to parent (See John 9:18-John 9:20; Gal 4:30. It is often used metaphorically of prominent moral characteristics. It is used in the NT of (a) male offspring, Gal 4:30; (b) legitimate, as opposed to illegitimate offspring, (c) descendants, without reference to sex, Rom 9:27. (f) those who act in a certain way, whether evil, Matt 23:31, or good, Gal 3:7; (g) those who manifest a certain character, whether evil, Acts 13:10; Eph 2:2, or good, Luke 6:35; Acts 4:36; Rom 8:14; (h) the destiny that corresponds with the character, whether evil, Matt 23:15; John 17:12; 2Thess 2:3, or good, Luke 20:36; (i) the dignity of the relationship with God whereinto men are brought by the Holy Spirit when they believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, Rom 8:19; Gal 3:26.

let he hit you with something a4. we are "a" diversity, or the offspring of the Eternal Spirit, in flesh, bone, and blood, us human creatures. which is called, man (Adam), meaning a diversity, (spirit, or offspring of the Eternal Spirit). but we're "heteros", in NATURE, and in character to our Father, after the FALL. we only have the form, or the fashion, or the similitude, or the image of God. Genesis 1:26 "let us make man in our likeness, and in our image". which his flesh was to come, hence his three dispensation to reveal himself. this is even confirm from the old testament. scripture, Zechariah 13:7 "Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones". this word fellow here in Zechariah 13:7
FELLOW: H5997 עָמִיתּ `amiyth (aw-meeth') n-m.
1. companionship
2. hence (concretely) a comrade or kindred man
[from a primitive root meaning to associate]
KJV: another, fellow, neighbour.

guess what the word "Fellow" means, that's right "another". and who was talking here in the old testament?, that's right, the one whom you call God/LORD. and now you know who this is referring to right?. yes, Jesus the Christ, Matthew 26:31 "Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad". now who is the "I" in the verse above, answer "the LORD".

Yet Jesus tells us that the Father is greater than I and Jesus when baptized had the DOVE the Holy Ghost descend upon him as the Father in heaven was heard saying this is my Son in whom I am well pleased. God is Father, Son(The Word) and Holy Ghost which I believe is the mothering side of God(Dove), while called he, for God is male yet with all attributes of male and female, there are no reproductive organs for He is Spirit.

John 14:28 "Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I".
I'm going to give you the short definition to save time. but I can give you the full understanding of what he was talking about. here it is. Greater? in which context, "quantity", or "quality". that word, "greater", here in verse 28. it is the same word, "greater", Jesus uses in verse 12. wait a minute, is Jesus saying that men who believe is GREATER than him in power, (quality), as we assume, NO. so what is Jesus really saying. GREATER, have several meaning, depending on how you used it, in context or out of context. now we are seeing the real use of the word, in context meaning, Greater as in quantity, and not quality. greater used as an adjective, it means, "more" believers to do the SAME work he is doing, but it will be a greater number of them/us doing the same work he was doing, and will be doing it through us. more, or greater in quantity, not quality, because he said, John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works, (there it is), than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father". so we who believe will do the SAME works but now we have millions of Jesus, as to say, doing the works, so greater here means more. this is the short answer.

and Jesus when baptized had the DOVE the Holy Ghost descend upon him as the Father in heaven was heard saying this is my Son in whom I am well pleased. God is Father, Son(The Word) and Holy Ghost which I believe is the mothering side of God(Dove), while called he, for God is male yet with all attributes of male and female, there are no reproductive organs for He is Spirit.

again, let me give you the short answer here. John 5:37 "And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape". a4, was this statement made before or after the baptism of our lord?, answer, after. ok now the short answer to the three at the baptism, Jeremiah 23:23 "Am I a God at hand, saith the LORD, and not a God afar off? 24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD". did not the Spirit fill that body also. lets prove this out by Scripture, John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven". now who was on earth at the same time in heaven, one better read their commentary on this verse.

It was not the Father who became flesh and died.
I must disagree with you on that. listen, Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you". there is only one God. so who came?. that's right the Spirit, (the one whom you call God), the diversified spirit, notice the small case "s", meaning in the nature of flesh and blood. the human nature. and two, the Spirit did not forsook the son, (the diversified spirit), in the context we have came accustom to, Oh no. one need to re-examine that word forsook. and by the Spirit, (whom you call God), coming in a diversified nature, from which he died from (flesh and blood). began a new life in glorified flesh, without BLOOD. scripture, Colossians 2:9 "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily". the Spirit, (whom you call God) , have his tabernacle, (flesh and bone), NO BLOOD. now we're to receive ours, (bodies) upon his return.

John 15:26
26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
KJV
John 16:8-16
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
16 A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.
KJV



for all of this see "Another", above.
There is only the One true God who is Father Son/Word and Holy Ghost for these 3 are one having all attributes of family.

"Father", "Son", "Word", and "Holy Ghost", are titles of the one true Spirit, whom you call God. the Holy Spirit is the only one who is God. Holy is an Epithet of the ONE TRUE SPIRIT, "Holy" is his character, and Spirit is his nature. understand?. only one PERSON.


a4 understand or to grasp this understanding, or this concept. one need to understand a few definition.
#1. Abstract
#2. Concrete
#3. Subjective
#4. Objective
and all of these can be revealed by the simple two letter word "of". once you get these concepts down then we can start to discuss the father and the son.

be blessed.
 

Guestman

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Determining the context is crucial for understanding the meaning of Scriptures. Otherwise, a person could be taking the Scriptures out of context and a misapplication results. It pays to read the whole chapter and perhaps several surrounding chapters to determine the real meaning. Thus, using the expression "I am the first and the last" does not always equate with the same person throughout the Bible. At Isaiah 48:12, who is speaking and what did he mean ?

Going back to Isaiah 48:1, it says that the "house of Jacob" was "swearing by the name of Jehovah" but "not in truth and not in righteousness" and then in verse 3, Jehovah begins to speak, and in which at verse 12, he says: "Listen, O Jacob, and you Israel my called one. I am the same One. I am the first. Moreover, I am the last."

Jehovah is the "first" in telling the "house of Jacob" what is to transpire, for at Isaiah 48:3, Jehovah says: "The first things I have told even from that time, and out of my own mouth they went forth, and I kept making them heard." God recognizes though that the nation of Israel is "hard, and that your neck is an iron sinew and your forehead is copper" (Isa 48:4), being often unresponsive to the "first things" or what is to be revealed.

Jehovah God further says that "I also kept telling you from that time. Before it could come in, I caused you to hear it." (Isa 48:5) as well "the last" of what will happen, saying: "Who among the nations has told these things ?"(Isa 48:14)

The Israelites failed to grasp that Jehovah is the One who "laid the foundation of the earth" and whose "right hand extended out the heavens".(Isa 48:13) He has the capability as the "the One telling from the beginning [the first] the finale [the last]."(Isa 46:10) He does not change with regard to justice nor his purpose, but is "the same One".

However, at Revelation 1:17, Jehovah is not the speaker, but Jesus Christ is. At Revelation 1:13, that there was "someone like the son of man, clothed with a garment that reached down to his feet." Who is known as the "son of man" ? Jesus, for he said at Matthew 8, that "foxes have dens and birds of heaven have roosts, but the Son of man has nowhere to lay down his head."(Matt 8:20)

Thence, Jesus told the apostle John: "Do not be fearful. I am the First and the Last, the living one; and I became dead, but look ! I am living forever and ever and I have the keys of death and of Hades."(Rev 1:17, 18) What did Jesus mean ?

That he was the first to be directly resurrected by Jehovah God to heavenly life as a member of the "kingdom" as well as the last, for all others who are resurrected will are done so by Jesus Christ. Jesus told the Jews that "just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted also to the Son to have life in himself. And he has given him authority to do judging, because Son of man he is."(John 5:26, 27)

Jesus then spoke of resurrecting "all those in the memorial tombs."(John 5:28) Therefore, Jesus is the "First and the Last" to be directly resurrected by Jehovah for the "heavenly calling" (Heb 3:1), but afterward, he is the one to be bringing back to life (having "life in himself ") all those who are God's memory, not only those who "joint heirs with Christ" (Rom 8:17), but also others, "of both the righteous and the unrighteous" (Acts 24:15) to have the opportunity of living forever on an earthly paradise (Matt 5:5), just as Jesus promised the evil-doer.(Luke 23:43)
 

101G

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2 Guestman, GINOLJC,
I'm glad you mention that, in context
The Israelites failed to grasp that Jehovah is the One who "laid the foundation of the earth" and whose "right hand extended out the heavens".(Isa 48:13) He has the capability as the "the One telling from the beginning [the first] the finale [the last]."(Isa 46:10) He does not change with regard to justice nor his purpose, but is "the same One".

lets take this one step at a time.
who "laid the foundation of the earth"
Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. 10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands"

now in context, who laid the foundation of the earth.

once this is correctly answered, then we can go to the next question
 

ChurchAuthority

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101G said:
Greeting in the name of the Lord Jesus.

well it seems like churchauthority, can't or want participate in the topic that he asked for. and it seems like its you and I ChristRoseFromTheDead.
since a4 brought up the name of God this is a good place to start.
so ChristRoseFromTheDead you believe in three person of the Godhead. if you will, please start by giving each individual Person, personal name, not a title, but the Proper noun of each of your individual Person in your Godhead.

thanks in advance.
Actually, being fairly new to this forum, I'm still learning how to navigate my way around and didn't know that this thread existed.

However, after reading all of your posts, it is pretty clear to me that you will cling to your heretical tradition rather than to embrace the Scripture verses that everybody here has presented to you. You cannot have an intelligent conversation with a person who flatly rejects evidence. What you need to do is to prove the verses that have been presented to you have been wrongly interpreted - and wrongly interprested in CONTEXT. If you can't do that, then you have already lost the debate.

Closing your eyes and covering your ears won't make the truth any less-truthful. It'll only make you blind and deaf to the truth . . .
 

101G

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2 ChurchAuthority, greeting in the name of the Lord Jesus.

all rhetoric, don't get this topic closed with it. post your scriptures. see if they stand the test.
 

ChurchAuthority

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101G said:
2 ChurchAuthority, greeting in the name of the Lord Jesus.
all rhetoric, don't get this topic closed with it. post your scriptures. see if they stand the test.
As I stated before - there has already been AMPLE evidence given but it has fallen on blind eyes and deaf ears. Such is the case with every heresy.

Your claim that Jesus is the Father in the flesh is outlandish, given the context of Scripture. Throughout the Gospel, Jesus repeatedly refers to the Father - and how the Son beingis subordinate to the Father. The Son cannot be His own Father. Isaiah 9:6 is NOT telling us that the Son is the Father in the Son in the flesh. It is showing us their ONENESS, just as John 17:20-23 does - and just as John 1:1 shows us theat although they are ONE - they are TWO distinct Persons.
 

101G

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Your claim that Jesus is the Father in the flesh is outlandish, given the context of Scripture. Throughout the Gospel, Jesus repeatedly refers to the Father - and how the Son beingis subordinate to the Father. The Son cannot be His own Father. Isaiah 9:6 is NOT telling us that the Son is the Father in the Son in the flesh. It is showing us their ONENESS, just as John 17:20-23 does - and just as John 1:1 shows us theat although they are ONE - they are TWO distinct Persons.

Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace". the reason why you reject this is because is because you're ignorant of what a "Father", or a "Son" is. you think flesh.

and this is backed up with John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever". see post #12 concerning "Another". and see what, and who the "another" is.
Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you". there is only one SAVIOUR. and he came in flesh and blood. again see post #12.


and, John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven". you don't know the difference, from the son of man, and the son of God. the son of God did not come from heaven, the son of man did. the son of man is God in flesh and blood.

now if you wish to have an intelligent conversation, fine. but if you just want to run your mouth, go to the community section and do that there.
 

ChurchAuthority

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101G said:
Your claim that Jesus is the Father in the flesh is outlandish, given the context of Scripture. Throughout the Gospel, Jesus repeatedly refers to the Father - and how the Son beingis subordinate to the Father. The Son cannot be His own Father. Isaiah 9:6 is NOT telling us that the Son is the Father in the Son in the flesh. It is showing us their ONENESS, just as John 17:20-23 does - and just as John 1:1 shows us theat although they are ONE - they are TWO distinct Persons.

Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace". the reason why you reject this is because is because you're ignorant of what a "Father", or a "Son" is. you think flesh.

and this is backed up with John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever". see post #12 concerning "Another". and see what, and who the "another" is.
Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you". there is only one SAVIOUR. and he came in flesh and blood. again see post #12.


and, John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven". you don't know the difference, form the son of man, and the son of God. the son of God did not come from heaven, the son of man did. the son of man is God in flesh and blood.

now if you wish to have an intelligent conversation, fine. but if you just want to run your mouth, go to the community section and do that there.
Your failure to understand the Person of Jesus is based on your inability to recognize the Hypostatic Union of His TWO natures:
100% Man
100% God
The verses I have shown you point to the reality of His hypostasis.

If Jesus is the Son of God - he cannot be the Son of Man. HOWEVER, Hes is ALSO the Son of Mary, so he is indeed, the Son of Man as well. He is referred to as BOTH in the Scriptures, but you only see Him as being referred to as the Son of Man. I have shown you vers after verse but you simply turn a blind eye and a deaf ear to it. This is known as "Spritual Pride" - and it is just a fancy name for SIN.

John 1:1
"In the beginning was the Word (Jesus), and the Word was with God, and the Word (Jesus) WAS God."

Reposting Isaiah 9:6, which shows the UNITY of the Godhead won't make your heresy disappear. It only serves to prove you wrong.
 

101G

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"In the beginning was the Word (Jesus), and the Word was with God, and the Word (Jesus) WAS God."

question, was the flesh before the foundation of the world. answer, NO. so they are not the same, so your scripture you used to interpret is in error.

question was the Lord Jesus before his flesh?, a yes or no will do.