Priesthood

daq · Jun 4, 2013

ericrun said:
The Jewish Model

The High Priest, Aaron & Successors

The common Priesthood, Levites

The Priesthood of Believers, Israelites and Jews

The Christian Model

The High Priest, Jesus Christ

The Common Priesthood, Bishops and Priests

The Priesthood of Believers, Christians

You appear to be suggesting that Aaron was the first Kohen Gadol. If so, Scripture please!

A single passage where Aaron is called "High Priest" or haKohen haGadol will suffice.
Otherwise Isaiah 28 and Hebrews 7 do not speak of what most people think they do.

Purity · Jun 4, 2013

daq said:
You appear to be suggesting that Aaron was the first Kohen Gadol. If so, Scripture please!
A single passage where Aaron is called "High Priest" or haKohen haGadol will suffice.
Otherwise Isaiah 28 and Hebrews 7 do not speak of what most people think they do.

Daq, is there a reason why this should matter? Not being smart; you may have something in mind you are not sharing

And the high priest among his brethren, upon whose head the anointing oil was poured, and that is consecrated to put on the garments, shall not uncover his head, nor rend his clothes; (Lev 21:10)

Cmp

And thou shalt make holy garments for Aaron thy brother for glory and for beauty. (Exo 28:2)

Do you believe another man was before Aaron to which the "order" is named?

If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? (Heb 7:11)

Levitical priesthood = order of Aaron

I am not quick to state otherwise until I hear your hidden thoughts on this matter.

Often things don't appear as they seem you would agree?

Purity

daq · Jun 4, 2013

Purity said:
And the high priest among his brethren, upon whose head the anointing oil was poured, and that is consecrated to put on the garments, shall not uncover his head, nor rend his clothes; (Lev 21:10)

You are out of context; the passage is specifically stated to concern the priests the sons of Aaron:

Leviticus 21:1-10 KJV
1. And the Lord said unto Moses, Speak unto the priests the sons of Aaron, and say unto them, There shall none be defiled for the dead among his people:
2. But for his kin, that is near unto him, that is, for his mother, and for his father, and for his son, and for his daughter, and for his brother.
3. And for his sister a virgin, that is nigh unto him, which hath had no husband; for her may he be defiled.
4. But he shall not defile himself, being a chief man among his people, to profane himself.
5. They shall not make baldness upon their head, neither shall they shave off the corner of their beard, nor make any cuttings in their flesh.
6. They shall be holy unto their God, and not profane the name of their God: for the offerings of the Lord made by fire, and the bread of their God, they do offer: therefore they shall be holy.
7. They shall not take a wife that is a whore, or profane; neither shall they take a woman put away from her husband: for he is holy unto his God.
8. Thou shalt sanctify him therefore; for he offereth the bread of thy God: he shall be holy unto thee: for I the Lord, which sanctify you, am holy.
9. And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.
10. And he that is the high priest among his brethren, upon whose head the anointing oil was poured, and that is consecrated to put on the garments, shall not uncover his head, nor rend his clothes;

It is future tense because out from the sons of Aaron would indeed come future High Priests, (that is until Messiah would come). However, this does not make Aaron the current Kohen Gadol at that time. The Scripture cannot be broken:

Numbers 25:10-13 KJV
10. And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
11. Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, hath turned my wrath away from the children of Israel, while he was zealous for my sake among them, that I consumed not the children of Israel in my jealousy.
12. Wherefore say, Behold, I give unto him my covenant of peace:
13. And he shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel.

This Word to Phinehas the son of Lazaros is an oath . . .
The covenant of the High Priesthood was NOT given by an oath, (Hebrews 7:20-21).

Purity · Jun 4, 2013

daq said:
You are out of context; the passage is specifically stated to concern the priests the sons of Aaron:

Leviticus 21:1-10 KJV
1. And the Lord said unto Moses, Speak unto the priests the sons of Aaron, and say unto them, There shall none be defiled for the dead among his people:
2. But for his kin, that is near unto him, that is, for his mother, and for his father, and for his son, and for his daughter, and for his brother.
3. And for his sister a virgin, that is nigh unto him, which hath had no husband; for her may he be defiled.
4. But he shall not defile himself, being a chief man among his people, to profane himself.
5. They shall not make baldness upon their head, neither shall they shave off the corner of their beard, nor make any cuttings in their flesh.
6. They shall be holy unto their God, and not profane the name of their God: for the offerings of the Lord made by fire, and the bread of their God, they do offer: therefore they shall be holy.
7. They shall not take a wife that is a whore, or profane; neither shall they take a woman put away from her husband: for he is holy unto his God.
8. Thou shalt sanctify him therefore; for he offereth the bread of thy God: he shall be holy unto thee: for I the Lord, which sanctify you, am holy.
9. And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.
10. And he that is the high priest among his brethren, upon whose head the anointing oil was poured, and that is consecrated to put on the garments, shall not uncover his head, nor rend his clothes;

It is future tense because out from the sons of Aaron would indeed come future High Priests, (that is until Messiah would come). However, this does not make Aaron the current Kohen Gadol at that time. The Scripture cannot be broken:

So you have the sons of the Aaron (High Priest) who is actually no High Priest at all?

Ok.

daq · Jun 4, 2013

Purity said:
So you have the sons of the Aaron (High Priest) who is actually no High Priest at all?

Ok.

Surely you understand that the main function the High Priest is to stand in the "gap" between God and his people?

Deuteronomy 5:1-7 KJV
1. And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
2. The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
3. The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
4. The Lord talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,
5. (I stood between the Lord and you at that time, to shew you the word of the Lord: for ye were afraid by reason of the fire, and went not up into the mount;) saying,
6. I am the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
7. Thou shalt have none other gods before me.

Likewise who anointed the Altar and the Mishkan-Tabernacle with all of its vessels? (Exodus 40). Who anointed Aaron and his sons? (Exodus 40). Who sprinkled both the Sefer and the people with the blood of the Covenant? (Exodus 24:7-8, Hebrews 9:19). Who is the brother of Aaron? As far as the sons of men by whose hand was it that the Most High brought up the children of Israel out of Egypt?

Deuteronomy 18:13-19 KJV
13. Thou shalt be perfect with the Lord thy God.
14. For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the Lord thy God hath not suffered thee so to do.
15. The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
16. According to all that thou desiredst of the Lord thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
17. And the Lord said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
18. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

The only covenant which was "disannulled" is the same which was prophesied in Isaiah 28 where it is called a "covenant with death". And why is it called a covenant with death? Because that is how the High Priesthood ruled the people, from the death of one and election of the next, to the death of the next and election of another; by succession. These are the same that ruled the people from Jerusalem as the passage states:

Isaiah 28:14-18 KJV
14. Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
15. Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, [for it was not given by an oath in Torah] and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
16. Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste. [clearly Messiah Yeshua]
17. Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
18. And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

Hebrews 7:15-24 KJV
15. And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
16. Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
17. For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
18. For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
19. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
20. And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
21. (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec

22. By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
23. And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
24. But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

The old covenant of the High Priesthood was "disannulled" because of the weakness of the ordinances due to the FLESH. The Priesthood reigned from the one man to the next through the death of the former and election of the next in line. Therefore the ordinaces were not perfect yet not because of the Law but because of the temporary nature of the body of the man which kept "waxing old, dying, and decaying." And not only that but because those men were not perfect men in the sight of God. Yeshua is now perfected and eternal at the right hand of the Father.

Old Testament-Covenant Saints ~ Body of Moses
New Testament-Covenant Saints ~ Body of Messiah

Purity · Jun 4, 2013

daq said:
Surely you understand that the main function the High Priest is to stand in the "gap" between God and his people?

Deuteronomy 5:1-7 KJV
1. And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
2. The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
3. The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
4. The Lord talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,
5. (I stood between the Lord and you at that time, to shew you the word of the Lord: for ye were afraid by reason of the fire, and went not up into the mount;) saying,
6. I am the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
7. Thou shalt have none other gods before me.

Likewise who anointed the Altar and the Mishkan-Tabernacle with all of its vessels? (Exodus 40). Who anointed Aaron and his sons? (Exodus 40). Who sprinkled both the Sefer and the people with the blood of the Covenant? (Exodus 24:7-8, Hebrews 9:19). Who is the brother of Aaron? As far as the sons of men by whose hand was it that the Most High brought up the children of Israel out of Egypt?

Deuteronomy 18:13-19 KJV
13. Thou shalt be perfect with the Lord thy God.
14. For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the Lord thy God hath not suffered thee so to do.
15. The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
16. According to all that thou desiredst of the Lord thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
17. And the Lord said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
18. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

The only covenant which was "disannulled" is the same which was prophesied in Isaiah 28 where it is called a "covenant with death". And why is it called a covenant with death? Because that is how the High Priesthood ruled the people, from the death of one and election of the next, to the death of the next and election of another; by succession. These are the same that ruled the people from Jerusalem as the passage states:

Isaiah 28:14-18 KJV
14. Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
15. Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, [for it was not given by an oath in Torah] and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
16. Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste. [clearly Messiah Yeshua]
17. Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
18. And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

Hebrews 7:15-24 KJV
15. And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
16. Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
17. For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
18. For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
19. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
20. And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
21. (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
22. By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
23. And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
24. But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

The old covenant of the High Priesthood was "disannulled" because of the weakness of the ordinances due to the FLESH. The Priesthood reigned from the one man to the next through the death of the former and election of the next in line. Therefore the ordinaces were not perfect yet not because of the Law but because of the temporary nature of the body of the man which kept "waxing old, dying, and decaying." And not only that but because those men were not perfect men in the sight of God. Yeshua is now perfected and eternal at the right hand of the Father.

Old Testament-Covenant Saints ~ Body of Moses
New Testament-Covenant Saints ~ Body of Messiah

Daq, you should try the "art" of speaking plainly.

Was Aaron an High Priest or not?

This is a simple yes / no answer.
Purity

Alanforchrist · Jun 5, 2013

Mungo said:
No, not in the sense that every Christians is a priest. They were priests in a special sense.

You haven't even attempted to justify your statements from scripture.

Just to remind you you said:
1. "The Bishop, Elder and Shepherd, are all the same office, Which in the Pastor of the local Church, According to the Greek."

2. "The presbyter were and are not Christ's Priests, They were the five fold Ministry, The Apostle, Prophet Evangelist, Pastor and Teacher."

What about 1Cor 12:28-31?

Show me where the Bible says the Apostles were priest,,[Nether mind in a special sense] Apart from the fact that every Christian is a Priest unto God.

daq · Jun 5, 2013

Purity said:
Daq, you should try the "art" of speaking plainly.

Was Aaron an High Priest or not?

This is a simple yes / no answer.
Purity

I thought perhaps you might have recognized the final statements in that last post which you even quote in your post.
Here it is again as plain as day, (with special emphasis in bold red at the bottom) from your own thread:

daq said:
I did not say that Lazaros was not dead but rather suggested that surely you must have read that he slept. The only place you could have read this is John 11 so why should you ask me if I have read it when I pointed you to it? The fact that Eleazar slept is the first thing Yeshua says to the disciples but because of their unbelief he was forced to tell them what was meant plainly as you have now noted.

This disputing over the Body of Moshe occurs all throughout the wilderness journey, into the promise land, and through out the O/T-Tanak until the advent of Messiah. The mind of the flesh says "the soma is my body of the flesh which I love; therefore the soma-body of Moshe is his body of the flesh which had to be kept for resurrection purposes" (apparently this mindset does not believe a resurrection is possible without a "preserved" carcass). The the mind of him walking in the Spirit says "perhaps that soma of Moshe is somehow related to the soma-body of Messiah of which we are all members".

Jude 1:8-10 KJV
8. Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
9. Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
10. But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

Zechariah 3:1-5 KJV
1. And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
2. And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
3. Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.
4. And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.
5. And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the Lord stood by.

Joshua 5:13-15 KJV
13. And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?
14. And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host [Sar-tsaba' YHWH, Re: Dan. 8:11, Dan. 8:25] of the Lord am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?
15. And the captain of the Lord's host [Sar- tsaba' YHWH] said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.

Old Covenant Saints ~ Body of Moshe - First High Priest under the Law, (Joshua was the next).
New Covenant Saints ~ Body of Moshiya` Yeshua - High Priest after the order of Melchizedek.

Daq and Purity on the resurrection of the dead - Reply #9
Likewise I remember having suggested to you on Page 2 of that thread that your answers were to be found on Page 1. :lol:

Purity · Jun 5, 2013

daq said:
Daq and Purity on the resurrection of the dead - Reply #9
Likewise I remember having suggested to you on Page 2 of that thread that your answers were to be found on Page 1. :lol:

Daq, for some reason you are still point scoring for reasons I know not.

I am actually keen to explore this with you, minus the moments of grandstanding; is this possible daq? Can you put your emoticons away for a little while we draw some of these points out?

Purity

daq · Jun 5, 2013

Purity said:
Daq, for some reason you are still point scoring for reasons I know not.

I am actually keen to explore this with you, minus the moments of grandstanding; is this possible daq? Can you put your emoticons away for a little while we draw some of these points out?

Purity

It is not grandstanding but rather the sad fact that you do not read what other people have to say unless it is for the purposes of finding an error to capitalize upon. Otherwise things should not need to be repeated over and over. Likewise a yes or no answer is a waste of words because it is not about you against me or me against you, or no, I'm right and you're wrong, no, you're wrong and I'm right, or I said, you said, he said, she said, yea or nea. It is once again about the Scripture. So which is better; to say "Hi everyone, I love you, and am here to destroy your false religion because we disagree and I am right and you are wrong: do you accept me? Yea or nea before I call down the fire?" or is it better to simply post from truth and love what each of us believes to be the Truth and those things which God has given us? I prefer the latter, and if someone comes along later, or you decide to come back to these things later when perhaps you have cooled off a bit then you might see why I wrote what I did, (which cannot happen with simple yes or no answers). IMO you have now forced me once again to explain myself and I find that repulsive because the conversation should not be made about myself and yourself but rather Messiah. Please leave your pride and ego at the Door of the Tabernacle or else put me on ignore.

Purity · Jun 5, 2013

daq said:
Please leave your pride and ego at the Door of the Tabernacle or else put me on ignore.

Was this the spirit I was seeking from you?

daq · Jun 5, 2013

Purity said:
Was this the spirit I was seeking from you?

Was it myself that sarcastically suggested in your thread that you thought I desired a sacrifice from you? I told you that I know I have been purchased and therefore you owe me nothing. Do you not believe Yeshua when he states that he is The Door?

John 10:1-9 KJV
1. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2. But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3. To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
4. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
6. This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
7. Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8. All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9. I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Leviticus 17:1-7 KJV
1. And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
2. Speak unto Aaron, and unto his sons, and unto all the children of Israel, and say unto them; This is the thing which the Lord hath commanded, saying,
3. What man soever there be of the house of Israel, that killeth an ox, or lamb, or goat, in the camp, or that killeth it out of the camp,
4. And bringeth it not unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, to offer an offering unto the Lord before the tabernacle of the Lord; blood shall be imputed unto that man; he hath shed blood; and that man shall be cut off from among his people:
5. To the end that the children of Israel may bring their sacrifices, which they offer in the open field, even that they may bring them unto the Lord, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, unto the priest, and offer them for peace offerings unto the Lord.
6. And the priest shall sprinkle the blood upon the altar of the Lord at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and burn the fat for a sweet savour unto the Lord.
7. And they shall no more offer their sacrifices unto devils, after whom they have gone a whoring. This shall be a statute for ever unto them throughout their generations.

These things are "on-topic" because the focus of the Epistle to the Hebrews concerns the Mishkan-Tabernacle and our High Priest Yeshua. If therefore your offering is acceptable unto the Lord, even as was the offering of Cornelius to the apostles and brethren at Judaea, (and they gave thanks and did partake of his testimony delivered by the mouth of Peter) then all of the congregation should likewise partake of your offering after having been approved and blessed by the Master, that is to say, so long as it is in accordance with the Word.

Take therefore your offerings first and foremost to The Door . . .

Purity · Jun 5, 2013

Numbers 17:1-13

THE ENDORSEMENT OF AARON'S STATUS AS HIGH PRIEST

This chapter reveals an attempt to silence the murmurings of the children of Israel, to ease the strife between the tribe of Levi and the other tribes, and to confirm before the whole congregation that Aaron's spiritual leadership is endorsed by Yahweh, a test is devised. Twelve rods, representing tribal authority, are selected, one for each of the tribes, and Aaron's name is inscribed on that of Levi. These are laid up before Yahweh, and on further inspection, it is seen that Aaron's rod has budded, bloomed blossoms, and produced almonds.

Aaron's status as High Priest thus confirmed, the rod is laid up in the Ark as a testimony. The congregation, already chastened by the judgments experienced, and now humbled by the miracle of the budding rod, endorse in the appointment.

Numbers 17:5

"And it shall come to pass that the man's rod, whom I shall choose shall blossom"

The man chosen to approach Yahweh was the High Priest.

The statement epitomises his labours. Num 16:5 & Psa 65:4

If we go to Numbers 17:7

We find "And Moses laid up the rods before Yahweh in the tabernacle of witness"

Here Moses was permitted in the Most Holy where normal Levites were not allowed (Num 18:2). As the type of Christ (Deut 18:15 ), Moses combined the offices of ruler and Melchizedek priest, (a priesthood not limited by fleshly descent as was the Aaronic - Psalms 110). He must have entered the Most Holy both before and after Aaron's rod had produced fruit. This was appropriate to the type, for whilst on earth, Christ's mind was constantly with the Father in heaven (John 1:18 & John 3:13 ), or in the Most Holy (Heb 10:19 ); and after his resurrection, he bodily ascended there (Heb 9:24 ). This answers to Moses' two entrances unto the Most Holy, for the budding of the rod denotes the resurrection. The word "witness" is from the Hebrew Eduwth, the feminine form of Ed, rendered "testimony" in Num 17:4.

Purity

daq · Jun 5, 2013

Good, and Moshe is likewise called an Elohim, (and Aaron is his prophet).

Purity · Jun 5, 2013

daq said:
Good, and Moshe is likewise called an Elohim, (and Aaron is his prophet).

Correct.

Elohim to mean one of Yahweh's mighty ones.

ericrun · Jun 5, 2013

daq

You pointed out Leviticus 21: 10. And he that is the high priest among his brethren, upon whose head the anointing oil was poured, and that is consecrated to put on the garments, shall not uncover his head, nor rend his clothes;

How was that not referring to Leviticus 8:
10 Then Moses took the anointing oil and anointed the tabernacle and everything in it, and so consecrated them. 11 He sprinkled some of the oil on the altar seven times, anointing the altar and all its utensils and the basin with its stand, to consecrate them. 12 He poured some of the anointing oil on Aaron’s head and anointed him to consecrate him. 13 Then he brought Aaron’s sons forward, put tunics on them, tied sashes around them and fastened caps on them, as the Lord commanded Moses.

So Aaron was anointed, but his sons were only clothed. How is he not 'upon whose head the anointing oil was poured'?

Purity · Jun 5, 2013

"Upon whose head the anointing oil was poured"

Lev 8:12 .

And should we be reminded of the Lord Jesus Christ and his anointing as Aaron the High Priest: John 3:34; Hebrews 1:9.

Nice pickup Eric.

daq · Jun 6, 2013

ericrun said:
daq

You pointed out Leviticus 21: 10. And he that is the high priest among his brethren, upon whose head the anointing oil was poured, and that is consecrated to put on the garments, shall not uncover his head, nor rend his clothes;

How was that not referring to Leviticus 8:
10 Then Moses took the anointing oil and anointed the tabernacle and everything in it, and so consecrated them. 11 He sprinkled some of the oil on the altar seven times, anointing the altar and all its utensils and the basin with its stand, to consecrate them. 12 He poured some of the anointing oil on Aaron’s head and anointed him to consecrate him. 13 Then he brought Aaron’s sons forward, put tunics on them, tied sashes around them and fastened caps on them, as the Lord commanded Moses.

So Aaron was anointed, but his sons were only clothed. How is he not 'upon whose head the anointing oil was poured'?

Not true: it was "Purity" that pointed to Leviticus firstly and I quoted the passage to show why it was out of context. The passage does not call Aaron a High Priest. Likewise I pointed to Exodus 40 which says thus:

Exodus 40:1-16 KJV
1. And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
2. On the first day of the first month shalt thou set up the tabernacle of the tent of the congregation.
3. And thou shalt put therein the ark of the testimony, and cover the ark with the vail.
4. And thou shalt bring in the table, and set in order the things that are to be set in order upon it; and thou shalt bring in the candlestick, and light the lamps thereof.
5. And thou shalt set the altar of gold for the incense before the ark of the testimony, and put the hanging of the door to the tabernacle.
6. And thou shalt set the altar of the burnt offering before the door of the tabernacle of the tent of the congregation.
7. And thou shalt set the laver between the tent of the congregation and the altar, and shalt put water therein.
8. And thou shalt set up the court round about, and hang up the hanging at the court gate.
9. And thou shalt take the anointing oil, and anoint the tabernacle, and all that is therein, and shalt hallow it, and all the vessels thereof: and it shall be holy.
10. And thou shalt anoint the altar of the burnt offering, and all his vessels, and sanctify the altar: and it shall be an altar most holy.
11. And thou shalt anoint the laver and his foot, and sanctify it.
12. And thou shalt bring Aaron and his sons unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and wash them with water.
13. And thou shalt put upon Aaron the holy garments, and anoint him, and sanctify him; that he may minister unto me in the priest's office.
14. And thou shalt bring his sons, and clothe them with coats:
15. And thou shalt anoint them, as thou didst anoint their father, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office: for their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations.
16. Thus did Moses: according to all that the Lord commanded him, so did he.

Moses does all of the anointing as commanded.

Purity said:
Correct.

Elohim to mean one of Yahweh's mighty ones.

Exodus 7:1 KJV
1. And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god ['elohiym] to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

Exodus 22:28 KJV
28. Thou shalt not revile the gods, ['elohiym] nor curse the ruler of thy people.

1 Samuel 28:13-14 KJV
13. And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ['elohiym] ascending out of the earth.
14. And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

Elohiym is God, or Torah Judges, or Rulers, or gods. Why then would you place Aaron haKohen above Moshe haKohen haGadol? Likewise who did Moses put his hands upon and commission, give the charge, or anoint, (Spirit) to take his place accordingly as he was commanded to do? Was it Eleazar the son of Aaron or was it Joshua?

1) Aaron is never called haKohen haGadol.
2) Moses is called an Elohiym and Aaron is his prophet.
3) Samuel the Judge and prophet is also called an Elohiym.
4) Joshua is placed BEFORE Eleazar and all the congregation.

Numbers 27:15-23 KJV
15. And Moses spake unto the Lord, saying,
16. Let the Lord, the God of the spirits of all flesh, set a man over the congregation,
17. Which may go out before them, and which may go in before them, and which may lead them out, and which may bring them in; that the congregation of the Lord be not as sheep which have no shepherd.
18. And the Lord said unto Moses, Take thee Joshua the son of Nun, a man in whom is the spirit, and lay thine hand upon him;
19. And set him before Eleazar the priest, and before all the congregation; and give him a charge in their sight.
20. And thou shalt put some of thine honour upon him, that all the congregation of the children of Israel may be obedient.
21. And he shall stand before Eleazar the priest, who shall ask counsel for him after the judgment of Urim before the Lord: at his word shall they go out, and at his word they shall come in, both he, and all the children of Israel with him, even all the congregation.
22. And Moses did as the Lord commanded him: and he took Joshua, and set him before Eleazar the priest, and before all the congregation:
23. And he laid his hands upon him, and gave him a charge, as the Lord commanded by the hand of Moses.

Likewise the Lord himself gives Joshua the charge in the Tabernacle:

Deuteronomy 31:14-15 KJV
14. And the Lord said unto Moses, Behold, thy days approach that thou must die: call Joshua, and present yourselves in the tabernacle of the congregation, that I may give him a charge. And Moses And Joshua went, and presented themselves in the tabernacle of the congregation.
15. And the Lord appeared in the tabernacle in a pillar of a cloud: and the pillar of the cloud stood over the door of the tabernacle.

Joshua the son of Nun was then full of the Spirit of wisdom:

Deuteronomy 34:7-9 KJV
7. And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.
8. And the children of Israel wept for Moses in the plains of Moab thirty days: so the days of weeping and mourning for Moses were ended.
9. And Joshua the son of Nun was full of the spirit of wisdom; for Moses had laid his hands upon him: and the children of Israel hearkened unto him, and did as the Lord commanded Moses.

Joshua then receives the same charge given Moses concerning the Kohen Gadol:

Joshua 20:1-6 KJV
1. The Lord also spake unto Joshua, saying,
2. Speak to the children of Israel, saying, Appoint out for you cities of refuge, whereof I spake unto you by the hand of Moses:
3. That the slayer that killeth any person unawares and unwittingly may flee thither: and they shall be your refuge from the avenger of blood.
4. And when he that doth flee unto one of those cities shall stand at the entering of the gate of the city, and shall declare his cause in the ears of the elders of that city, they shall take him into the city unto them, and give him a place, that he may dwell among them.
5. And if the avenger of blood pursue after him, then they shall not deliver the slayer up into his hand; because he smote his neighbour unwittingly, and hated him not beforetime.
6. And he shall dwell in that city, until he stand before the congregation for judgment, and until the death of the high priest [haKohen haGadol] that shall be in those days: then shall the slayer return, and come unto his own city, and unto his own house, unto the city from whence he fled.

ericrun said:
The Jewish Model

The High Priest, Aaron & Successors

The common Priesthood, Levites

The Priesthood of Believers, Israelites and Jews

The Christian Model

The High Priest, Jesus Christ

The Common Priesthood, Bishops and Priests

The Priesthood of Believers, Christians

Therefore, ("ericrun")

a more accurate list might be represented in the following:

Old Covenant Era ~ Melchizedek

Moses - First haKohen haGadol (under Torah)

Three Mighties
1) Aaron
2) Eleazar
3) Ithamar

New Covenant Era ~ Order of Melchizedek

Yeshua Moshiya haKohen haGadol

Three Mighties
1) Simon bar-Jonah Petros
2) Yacobos-James Zebedaiou Boanerges
3) Mattityahu Levi-Lebbaeus Alphaeus

1 Peter 2:5-9 KJV
5. Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6. Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. [Isaiah 28:16]
7. Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8. And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9. But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Exodus 19:5-6 KJV
5. Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
6. And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

But of course these things are SPIRIT! (and Torah is not "disannulled").

Mungo said:
As usual you make no attempt to prove any evidence for you opinions.

I admit nothing of the sort. It's right there in the Greek.

eis to einai me leitourgon Christou Iēsou eis ta ethnē hierourgounta to euangelion tou theou hina genētai hē prosphora tōn ethnōn euprosdektos hēgiasmenē en pneumati hagiō

By the way Mungo ~ Both words are in the text, (my emphasis underlined-bold-italic-red in the quote of your post above).
You appear to be right, it appears to say . . . "a minister of Yeshua Christou to the nations; a priest/temple-servant" . . .
From what I can tell that form of hierourgeo is like saying "sacredly ministering" (in the Temple) . . .

ericrun · Jun 6, 2013

Look at Aaron's Wikipedia page, or go read what the rabbis have to say, Aaron was the High Priest. There is no serious dispute in this regard. Leviticus 21:10 and 8:12 are clear that Aaron was consecrated as High Priest.

But whether it was Aaron or Moses doesn't matter. The key point is that the office was started, and there were three levels of priesthood, the high priest under whose authority all sacrifices were made, the rest of the priests, and then the entire body of God's people. The priesthood didn't exist without the ritual sacrifices.

Likewise, the Christian sacrifice in the Mass is a spritual sacrifice with a physical action.

If the Christian sacrifice isn't the sacrifice in the Mass, what are the spiritual sacrifices? How do we know these sacrifice are being executed?

HeRoseFromTheDead · Jun 6, 2013

ericrun said:
If the Christian sacrifice isn't the sacrifice in the Mass, what are the spiritual sacrifices? How do we know these sacrifice are being executed?

Just a few:

Therefore I exhort you, brothers, through the mercies of God, to present your bodies [as] a living sacrifice, holy [and] pleasing to God, [which is] your reasonable service. Romans 12:1

Therefore through him let us offer up a sacrifice of praise continually to God, that is, the fruit of lips that confess his name. And do not neglect doing good and generosity, for God is pleased with such sacrifices. Hebrews 13:15-16

For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you, that the Lord Jesus, on the night in which he was betrayed, took bread, and [after he] had given thanks, he broke [it] and said, “This is my body which [is] for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” Likewise also the cup, after they had eaten, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink [it], in remembrance of me.” For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes. 1 Corinthians 11:23-26

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