The Cost Of Being A Disciple

I've been thinking about this lately. Macarthur did some nice work on this in his book titled--"Hard to Believe: The High Cost and Infinite Value of Following Jesus". I know that we each benefit ourselves for our own suffering. But I wanted to put the fucus on the/our "cost" which, aside from glorifying God, should specifically benefit the unsaved. I really believe that our being blameless is necessary for us to have a mirror like effect on the unsaved, much like the Law does. This will draw the same responses from the world that the Law does. Thus we become living sacrifices for the unsaved. We will either draw them, or repel them. This is the motive behind verses like these...Matthew 5:38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. 41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away. 43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, Proverbs 25:21 If your enemy is hungry, give him bread to eat; And if he is thirsty, give him water to drink; 22 For so you will heap coals of fire on his head, And the LORD will reward you. ----------------------------------------------Here are some more passages that will be foundational for this discussion.Matthew 5:10 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 “Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.***Believers Are Salt and Light*** 13 “You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men. 14 “You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.Romans 8:18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us....31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written: “ For Your sake we are killed all day long; We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.” (Psalm 44:22)37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.1 Peter 2:20 For what credit is it if, when you are beaten for your faults, you take it patiently? But when you do good and suffer, if you take it patiently, this is commendable before God. 21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps: 22 “ Who committed no sin, Nor was deceit found in His mouth”; (Isaiah 53:9) 23 who, when He was reviled, did not revile in return; when He suffered, He did not threaten, but committed Himself to Him who judges righteously; 24 who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed. 25 For you were like sheep going astray, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.John 15:18 “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. 20 Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also. 2 Timothy 3:12 Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.1 Peter 4:1 Therefore, since Christ suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, 2 that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but for the will of God. 3 For we have spent enough of our past lifetime in doing the will of the Gentiles—when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries. 4 In regard to these, they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking evil of you. 5 They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. 6 For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.1 Peter 4:12 Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened to you; 13 but rejoice to the extent that you partake of Christ’s sufferings, that when His glory is revealed, you may also be glad with exceeding joy. 14 If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. 15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, a thief, an evildoer, or as a busybody in other people’s matters. 16 Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter.17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18 Now “ If the righteous one is scarcely saved, Where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?” (Proverbs 11:31) 19 Therefore let those who suffer according to the will of God commit their souls to Him in doing good, as to a faithful Creator.Luke 14:25 Now great multitudes went with Him. And He turned and said to them, 26 “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. 27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. 28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it— 29 lest, after he has laid the foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, 30 saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish’? 31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, does not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? 32 Or else, while the other is still a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks conditions of peace. 33 So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple. 34 “Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? 35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”1 Thessalonians 3:3 that no one should be shaken by these afflictions; for you yourselves know that we are appointed to this. 4 For, in fact, we told you before when we were with you that we would suffer tribulation, just as it happened, and you know. 5 For this reason, when I could no longer endure it, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter had tempted you, and our labor might be in vain.-----------------------------------------------If we put the focus on the "cost", and then ask "why?". It's for the same reason that Jesus suffered for us. We are to carry our cross and follow after Him, or, become living sacrifices for the unsaved, even unto suffering. Following the pattern of Jesus, as He still reaches out to the lost through us.There is a psychology behind it. Those who wish to suppress the truth, especially the truth about themselves, will be forced to look at themselves honestly, and as a result of our being blameless, when they persecute us, this puts the focus back on them, just like a mirror, which will draw one of the two reactions mentioned above.

On a more personal note:I wish I had known what I was going through back when I was suffering the most. When it's coming at you from every direction, being a new Christian, I wasn't sure what was going on. Should I rebuke Satan? Was I being chastised by God? Was I being tested by God? Was God teaching me something...but what? How should I respond? Not knowing what was causing all these "strange things happening". This is why being in an immature and worldly church can be so damaging to a new Christian. The "spiritual elites" didn't know any more than I did. They were too busy with their new age "things" in pride and rebellion against God. I needed to know and understand... 1 Peter 4:12 Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened to you; 13 but rejoice to the extent that you partake of Christ’s sufferings, that when His glory is revealed, you may also be glad with exceeding joy. We will lose jobs, our reputations, and sometimes our lives, but this is our calling. Even if we don't tell people that we are born again in Christ Jesus, we will still get the response of hatred from the world. It's built in. They want to suppress the truth, we want to preach it, and allow His light to shine through us, which will convict the world. What should we do? Philippians 2:14-15 tells us. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Philippians 2:14 Do all things without complaining and disputing, 15 that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world,compare...Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret. 13 But all things that are exposed are made manifest by the light, for whatever makes manifest is light.Compare...Romans 1:32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.The world not only practice evil, but "approve" of those who also do (Romans 1:32). Our lives are a rebuke to a sinful world (Ephesians 5:11-13). When we are "blameless and harmless" and "without fault", because we are a light to the world (Philippians 2:14), we are a walking rebuke to the world. They will hate us for this. It's built in us, and it's built in them.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------John 15:25 But this happened that the word might be fulfilled which is written in their law, ‘They hated Me without a cause.’John 15:20 Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also. 21 But all these things they will do to you for My name’s sake, because they do not know Him who sent Me. Philippians 3:10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death,John 17:15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one."People willfully reject the truth, not because of ignorance but because they love the darkness rather than the light."--Macarthur

So let me ask you...Did you ever meet someone who you almost instantly disliked, maybe even to the point of hatred, for no good reason at all, or at least nothing that you could put your finger on? You could see right through them and everything that they do. They just rubbed you the wrong way and you didn't know why? Many times, when that happens, if you are honest with yourself, you may realise that the reason that you feel this way is because that person reminds you of yourself. Even Psychologists, with their limited understanding, because their world view is limited, will tell you that this instant dislike, or hatred is because of one of two reasons...either they are just like you, or they are the exact opposite. Man, by his fallen nature, suppresses the truth in unrighteousness. The last thing that fallen man wants to know or see is himself honestly, as he really is. The moral Law, acting as a mirror, exposes man to himself in light of the truth. We, as Christians, are to be a light to the world and part of the effects of that light is to also be a mirror, in a sense, just like the Law. Let me explain... If I were to say something evil towards you, and in return, likewise, you did the same towards me in response, I would feel completely justified in what I said. Now, If I were to say something evil towards you, and you returned only kindness and love. Being completely blameless, I would then be forced to look at myself. It forces all of my focus to be on me because you are blameless.Remember this...Proverbs 25:21 If your enemy is hungry, give him bread to eat; And if he is thirsty, give him water to drink; 22 For so you will heap coals of fire on his head, And the LORD will reward you. When Jesus taught us to love our enemy, be kind to those who do evil against us, to turn the other cheek, it wasn't so we could be a bunch of passive idiots and torture ourselves for no good reason. It was so, in effect, an unsaved man would be forced to look at himself honestly. They will be forced to look at themselves only if we are blameless when we are persecuted for our faith by them. This cost comes at our expense, but for their benefit, and for God's glory. Whether or not they end up changing, still doesn't change the fact that there is a cost in doing what we are asked to do as Christians. The most hardened hearts will be softened, according to God's grace, if they are forced to look at themselves honestly enough times. It may take forty years, and many destroyed lives, but eventually, if God so choses, they will get tired of looking at their own ugliness and repent and start to look for answers. In showing love in response to our being persecuted for our faith, or being a light, we never compromise the truth. And there is a place for teaching and preaching hell fire. But too many times people who preach hellfire are trying to manufacture a convicted heart from the unsaved. Usually, this draws the opposite effect even from those who God is calling. We need to trust in the power of God's word and stop trying to manufacture our own results. We need to be motivated in love, but not wavering in the truth. If someone were to ask you: What is the cost?; What is the reason that we should turn the other cheek? Could you answer them? Could you explain to them what it means to carry our cross and come after Him, to be a living sacrifice, to be partakers in Christs suffering, and more importantly, how we are to do this and why?Think it through. I think that most Christians understand most of this, but not all of it.Dave

“It is vain to shut our eyes to the fact that there is a vast quantity of so-called Christianity nowadays which you cannot declare positively unsound, but which, nevertheless, is not full measure, good weight, and sixteen ounces to the pound. It is a Christianity in which there is undeniably "something about Christ, and something about grace, and something about faith, and something about repentance, and something about holiness"; but it is not the real "thing as it is" in the Bible. Things are out of place, and out of proportion. As old Latimer would have said, it is a kind of "mingle-mangle," and does no good. It neither exercises influence on daily conduct, nor comforts in life, nor gives peace in death; and those who hold it, often awake too late to find that they have got nothing solid under their feet... In conclusion, let every reader of this paper think seriously, whether his religion costs him anything at present. Very likely it costs you nothing. Very probably it neither costs you trouble, nor time, nor thought, nor care, nor pains, nor reading, nor praying, nor self-denial, nor conflict, nor working, nor labor of any kind. Now mark what I say. Such religion as this will never save your soul. It will never give you peace while you live, nor hope while you die. It will not support you in the day of affliction, nor cheer you in the hour of death. A religion which costs nothing is worth nothing. Awake before it is too late....We are not far from home. IT MAY COST MUCH TO BE A TRUE CHRISTIAN AND A CONSISTENT HOLY MAN; BUT IT PAYS.” – J. C. Ryle, excerpts from Holiness.http://www.gbcok.org/gbcevangel.htmlHave you counted the cost? Do you know what it means to be a partaker in Christ's suffering, a living sacrifice? To pick up your cross and "come after Him"?

It's so easy to overlook when we don't want to see it, but this call is everywhere in the Gospel. Right now, as you read this, faithful believers are laying down their lives for their faith in Jesus Christ all around the world. Just stop and think about that, wherever you are, what ever you are doing.Somebody refused to pronounce faith in a false god at the threat of his life, and paid for it with his life. Somebody lost a job because some people who worked with him were offended by Christianity and falsely accused him of stealing from the company. Another could not even take the job he needed so desperately because he would not sign a paper stating that he agreed with homosexuality. As a result, he lost his home, and everything he worked for his whole life.Do we stop trusting God at this point? Why would we do that? We offered our lives to Him, why should this surprize us? He may want us somewhere else. He may have needed to separate us from worldly things and our enslavement to them so we could be of use to Him. We should expect this, no?We are to follow Jesus, with our cross, and offer our lives as living sacrifices, and if necessary, lay down our lives. Many people today ask the question "what would Jesus do?". How about "what did Jesus do?" as He lived as an example for us. And "what did Jesus ask us to do?". It's a lot more difficult question when we are not deciding between a new boat or a new car, as we can clearly see from the scripture provided in the previous posts. I'm not saying that nobody can own or have anything, but if we put these things before God, and that's easy to do, well, He is a jealous God, and He will remove them. He may just have other plans for us.Nova, you are right. So many today don't have any idea what the true Gospel is, and even worse, they don't understand that many of the good things God has for us and others come through our suffering.Dave

The Law, a reflection of the very character of God Himself, working as a mirror, will convict the world and as a result they will either gnash their teeth at it, or they will be driven to Christ. The purpose of the law is to reveal sin.Setting all the legality of it aside. The ACLU will sue to have the Ten Commandments removed from a public courtroom. But right next to the Ten Commandments is a statue of a Greek god and nothing is said of it. What is the difference? One convicts the sinners soul. The other does not. Children are allowed to pray the Quran in public schools, in fact the public school system bends over backwards to accommodate Muslims, but Christians cannot even say the name Jesus. Difference? One convicts the sinners soul, the other does not. We could go on and on all day with these examples, but any honest person knows this is an undeniable truth that each of us sees in our own lives on a daily basis. The same way the world respond to the Law, they will also respond to those of us in Christ when we are a light to those in the world, as we are called to be according to scripture. So do not be amazed at the trials that you will face as if something strange is happening. This is our calling. Stay faithful, be blameless, and allow God to use you to reach those that He is calling. And as Jesus offered Himself for us while we were still hostile towards the Gospel, likewise, we offer ourselves as living sacrifices, daily, to the same world that we were pulled from. Love is sellfless.There is a comfort in knowing why these strange things are happening, is there not? This is the reason for this thread, so you can know and not be overwhelmed by it in ignorance as I was. Dave

(yaqub;20122)
"When Christ calls a man, He bids him come and die" (Dietriech Bonhoeffer)
I'm reading that book right now. "The Cost Of Discipleship". I hear that he had some things in his theology that were not very good, but I was told to read the book and judge those things afterwards. So i'm giving it a go. It may take me a while. I read a few chapters at a time with what can be months in between. It's a strange way to read, but i've always been like that with books (other than the Bible).:angel10:God bless