Another President in Office?/rapture

Yes, we will meet Jesus in the clouds. The question isn't if, but when. And the point of 2Thes 2, is a warning not to expect the messiah to return to the earth as a man. But rather to be aware, any man showing up declaring himself the messiah, can't be the messiah.We live in the 7th church age depicted in Rev 3:14-21. There is no way we (the church collective) can read these verses without seeing hardship & trial forthcoming. Our calling is to walking obedient & hold fast to the truth of the Word (like in any of the church ages.) Our challenge is that much of what is taught be the church (from the pulpits) doesn't line up with the Bible. So false doctrines abound. And we have a false sense of security based on unbiblical assumptions.So yes, someday the dead rise first & we (alive) after them. But it is what happens between now & then that we need to prepare for.

(jodycour;20569)
In II Thess. 2:1Paul is correcting them on getting carried away with Him coming in they're life time by not wanting to work and such!But He does not say that Jesus won't be coming to take them away some day!Matter of fact he mentions here about they're gathering together unto the Lord!Were will the Lord be when He gathers them to Himself? In the Clouds!
You are partly right but you seem to ignore when he says it will happen you can not just ignore what you do want to hear When is our gathering to Lord ?? AFTER AFTER AFTER THE MAN OF SIN the man of sin is Satan coming as Antichrist When does antichrist come??? for the thousanth time at the 5th/6th Trump CHRIST DOES NOT RETURN TILL THE 7th stay in the field wait if you are in a flesh body Christ is not here. Listen to God not menI am just going to tell plain how it is Jody I am really lookin forward to seeing you on the other side somday and I really dont want my first words to be I told you so

QUOTE (Kriss;20583)
QUOTE (jodycour;20569)
In II Thess. 2:1Paul is correcting them on getting carried away with Him coming in they're life time by not wanting to work and such!But He does not say that Jesus won't be coming to take them away some day!Matter of fact he mentions here about they're gathering together unto the Lord!Were will the Lord be when He gathers them to Himself? In the Clouds!
You are partly right but you seem to ignore when he says it will happen you can not just ignore what you do want to hear When is our gathering to Lord ?? AFTER AFTER AFTER THE MAN OF SIN the man of sin is Satan coming as Antichrist When does antichrist come??? for the thousanth time at the 5th/6th Trump CHRIST DOES NOT RETURN TILL THE 7th stay in the field wait if you are in a flesh body Christ is not here. Listen to God not menI agree 100% Kriss.I Corinthians 15:51-58 - Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.I Thessalonians 4:14-18 - For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.Revelation 11:15-17 - And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.Love much, JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.

Jody its not us thats what scripture says havent you read It says no where we will be caught up in the clouds except for a misunderstanding in 1Thess. Flesh canot enter heaven period. This rapture was never taught what is taught is Revelation 21:1 "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea." At the close of chapter 20, the fire of hell that consume Satan and all his followers, will not exist. They will never again return in any form, and in their place will be a rejuvenated earth. Will this place be on some far off planet? No, but right here on earth. It will be perfect.We see in II Peter 3:10,11 that the existence of this present earth age will be changed with the all physical elements (evil rudiments) done away with, at the "day of our Lord". Then in II Peter 3:12, at the end of the Millennium age, the evil souls are turned to ashes. This is called the "day of God".II Peter 3:13 "Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness." This new heaven and new earth is a promise given by God to the earliest prophets, and we have seen throughout the Holy Scriptures that God does keep all his promises.II Peter 3:14 "Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless." Revelation 21:2 "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband." God allowed John to see in his vision this new city, the New Jerusalem; coming down to earth dressed in all its beauty. Christ made this New Jerusalem just as He would adorn it for His first love, His bride, and that is for you and me, that make up His church. My dear friend, if that doesn't make it all worth any trouble and trial we face on earth, then something's wrong with our thinking.Revelation 21:3 "And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God." The text reads, "the throne" instead of "of heaven", and we know that voice is the voice of God, our Heavenly Father."Behold" in the Greek is "idou", and is the imperative "eidon". It is calling attention to a subject other than himself, and that subject is "the tabernacle of God". Hebrews 9:11 "But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;"Hebrews 9:15 "And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance." We don't serve a dead God, but a living Savior. He is our loving, living God. Here in verse 15 we see it is Jesus Christ that is our go-between, our tabernacle, which allows us humans to approach God. The Almighty Father is saying in verse 21:3 that this tabernacle (Jesus Christ) is going to be with men from here on, eternally. Jesus Christ will be with us, lead us, and we (all those who have accepted him) will be His people.Not only will we have our Lord Jesus Christ by our side in the new Jerusalem, but the Heavenly Father will be on earth dwelling also. I don't believe it's possible to fully imagine in our minds the splendor of these first three verses.Revelation 21:4 "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." The new soul body that each of us will be in, is an incorruptible body, which will never grow old. There is no pain or sorrow felt in that body, for all sin and guilt are blotted out by the blood of Christ. Some may say, "What about our loved ones which lay burning in hell fire?" Friend, those souls were burned to ashes, and all thought of them will be blotted even from your memory. It will be as if that loved one had never existed.All "former things" [Strong's #4413, #4453] in the Greek dictionary says; "protos", best previous, formerly, of root #4453; "poleo", to be busy, to trade, to peddle, to be sold."We will not be making and selling to earn a living, but tending to the rewards of a joyous life God has for us. The problems we face in this life will not be there. Work and backbiting won't exist. The problems of poor health and the handicap will be gone, and our nourishment will flow from the eternal fountain of God.Revelation 21:5 "And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful." It is the Heavenly Father talking to John here, and He told John to "write". The words are about Our Lord Jesus Christ, His son. This we know for in Revelation 19:11, Jesus Christ is named "true and faithful".Revelation 21:6 "And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely." What was done? All the wrath of God that was ever to be poured out on the wickedness of man, and Satan, and his fallen workers came as the seventh angel poured out his vile on the earth. See Revelation 16:17. We see here also those words from God, "It is done".God's plan will be over and completed with all of those children of God that were in disobedience, gone forever. We see God's name, "I am", and the reference to His eternal existence in "Alpha" and "Omega" (Greek), "the beginning and the end". God promises life to all who accept Christ, for that life is given to us only through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, by God our Heavenly Father. Revelation 21:7 "He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son." To inherit means we are to possess a share of the heavenly kingdom; that new and beautiful Jerusalem that has been prepared for those who wait on the true Christ and do not follow the Antichrist. Romans 8:17 "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him that we may be also glorified together." And as for the saints yes they are coming with Christ at the last 7th trump Thats why its called The LORDS DAY it is not you and I he is coming to kill but those that have followed antichrist we will not all die we will be instanly changed to an incoruptable bodies. flesh is not incoruptable

Your belief that your physical body will be raised up into the air to meet God in the clouds and then return with the saints with Gods when he returns. Is nowhere in scripture it is a made up doctrine of men. God allowed the mistake of The Thessalonians in 1Thess to be included in scripture because he knew this unholy rapture teaching would come about so he corrected it and told you the truth of it in 2 Thess yet you hang on to the error even though you are told in 2 Thess. that the first is wrong. Where is New Jerusalam???Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.Where is God???3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away." God is living here on the New earth with us We have eternal incorruptible bodies flesh is neither eternal nor incorruptiblewe are made in the image of the Angels we will have the same type spirit bodies as they do. This is all entirley biblicalWhat do you think these verses mean??Jude 1:21Keep yourselves in God's love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.1 John 2:25And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.1 John 5:13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.Your idea of your flesh body being raised into the clouds to meet God and then return as the saints with him is not in the bible any where except in corrected errors of mislead Thessalonians.why would you raise up when God is coming down. Stop listening to menWhy does God spend 1/3 of the Bible telling you what will happen when in the end times and what you are to be prepared for if he just is going to lift all out here ??

Kriss, this is common sense. A child (kid or adult) of tenderhearted can see it. Love much, from Jag.Lovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.

Jody
Some how they got there before Jesus comes back to destroy satan and his army!
Jody, they got there when they diedRevelation 6:9 "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:"These souls were killed for their stand in the Word of God. Who could that be? The saints of God, for their souls are now at [not under] the altar of God in heaven. Those souls have died and are with the Father in HeavenRevelation 6:10 "And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord [Master], holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth."Their blood was shed on the earth, while at this time they are pleading at the altar of God in heaven. To be absent from this body is to be present with the Lord [Ecclesiastes 12:7]. The time of revenge will come at God's appointed time. Before God, nobody gets away with anything.Revelation 6:11 "And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."If we believe, as a Christian, that Christ set the example for us; so that we will follow as He did, in dying, and rising again, then "to sleep" is to be dead from the flesh body. The Greek is a simple language, for it's structure allows one to be more precise. The subject in the frame of this verse is; "that ye not be ignorant as to where the dead are." If you're a Christian, you know and believe that Jesus Christ died, was buried, and on the third day arose and came out of the tomb. If you do not believe this, Paul classifies you as ignorant, and heathen [non-believer]. It was on the fortieth day that he ascended back to the Father. When Jesus ascended into heaven, all the souls went with him into heaven also, that had passed on, up to that point in time. The souls of some went to wait for that time of judgment, while others to the glory of God. Those that sleep [are dead] are not out there in a hole in the ground, but all Christians must believe that they arose to be with the Father, just like Christ did also. The dead are with God; all of them. "To be absent from the body [flesh body] is to be present with the Lord." Ecclesiastes 12:7.

KrissI have never been a pre rap kind of guy, but I have always thought the one not left in field was taken up to meet Jesus when he comes at the 2nd coming. Could you show me why i am not getting the same interpitation.Oceanman

The answer is in the subject of what Matthew 24 is talking about which is the End time Harvest of Souls and knowing the chronological order of what happens at the End times all we have to do is count 5th trump,6th trump, 7th trump. Satan gets kicked to earth at the End of 5th/6th trump Christ does not return to til the 7th sense 5 and 6 always precede 7 we have the order that the wicked(fake) one comes before the true ChristThis is the order of the End time Harvest. It is common knowledge that we are to be planting seeds of Gods Word that is every Christians work. What did Matthew tell us about the harvestMat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one]; Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. who is the wicked one? Satan and who is Satan coming as ?the false christ= antichrist. When is this parable going to take place? at the harvest of the End times. When God comes to gather his own his children are the good working in the world (field )the tares are the evil who will be plucked out. Stay working in the field dont go chasing after false christs. Blessed is he that waits upon the Lord. There is no rapture anywhere in scripture (only a changing at the Lords coming)but even rapture teachers have a an understanding that this parable is not about rapture. So I will give you a link to a rapture site(even though it pains me to do so)so you can see what they say on this subject.I hope this helps you understand why I say we must stay working. http://zile.org/otol.html

Kriss Its seems to say in 1 thess we will meet in clouds. 2 thess2 says the day of Lord has not come, that day will not come until rebellion. i see this but I dont see not coming in the clouds. Help me out here.Cant he tranform our bodies into spirit bodies in an instant.Oceanman

KrissI only believe in the seconed coming, and it seems in 1 thess4 16 Paul is real clear there about clouds. No confusion in his writing. Help me out hereOceanman

KrissI dont need to read any thing about rapture. I have read every theory there is on rapture and I dont buy any of it. I believe only a 2nd coming meeting Jesus in the air clouds, being changed in an instant. Oceanman

You need a little history here to help you get a clearer picture here Paul came to Thessalonia and started a church of both Gentile and Jews he only had two to three weeks with this new church when he was forced to leave because the Jewish leaders wanted to kill him. Remember the Christian church was just getting established a group of Jews had come into this weeks old church an basically started a rumor that the Lord was soon coming /or had come so the Thessalonians got confused between Pauls letter and the rumors when Paul sent Timothy to check up on his new church Timothy reported back to Paul the false teaching that was spreading through Thessalonia so Paul sends his second letter2 Thess. whats the letter about ? 1Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, Then he tells them do not be confused2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. Then he tells them not to be decieved by anyone for the Lords Day of coming will not happen until after antichrist (satan) man of lawlessness is one of Satans many names3 Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. There is only one who is already condemed to death and that is Lucifer(Satan)4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God. He will come first the 5th/6th trump and declare himself to be God this is the Abomination of Desolation spoken of in DanielDoes this answer your question?

Just a quick note here the1st letter that confused them was talking about the deadthe Thessalonians were concerned their loved ones were rotting in the dirt Paul was explaining to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord that their souls rose to up to be with the Lord. So between the letter about the dead and the rumor they thought it was the time of the 7th trump Thats why Paul reminds them that its not yet time the 6th trump (antichrist)must be revealed first it back to that counting again 7 can not come before 5 and six (5,6,7) .

KrissI will have to think on this a little. It seems to me Paul is just saying He has not come yet, It does not appear to me that the gathering he mentions is a rapture. Where do you say we will meet Jesus when he returns?I hope not to be a pain. But This is very interesting. You have a great mind!!!1 Mine is just a little slower. I love people that love to study Gods word.Oceanman

Love answering questions for one who is truly searching You are right there is no rapture here Pauls is explaing that when the dead die their body goes into the ground and their souls gather to the Lord in Heaven (air/clouds)Thats what happens when we all die this is what Paul was talking about. NOT RAPTUREJesus is coming to earth their is no reason to go up and meet him There will be a new Jerusalem come down from heaven to earth and God will dwell here with us Rev 21: The New Jerusalem 1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away." 5 He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."