Abuse in the Church

Hee hee, is the videographer the one who put it on the net ?

The beginning reminded me an awful lot of a cult leader. Just too much emphasis on his congregation not being fixated on him.
Maybe if he allowed the Holy Spirit to run the service they would be more attentive.
The only excuse for such preaching style is if he had the congregation from hell lol !

LOL! I was cracking up the whole time watching this and I bet people will continue to go to that church just because drama is entertaining. It brings to mind the main difference between Protestant services and Catholic mass. For Protestants, the service is centered around the pastor who is often an engaging and charismatic person. After service, people will talk about how much they dislike or like the pastor. Catholic Mass, however, is centered around the Eucharist, who we believe is the physical presence of Christ. I can go to any parish and even the grumpiest, most surly priest will suffice because his office is valid to preside over the sacraments and to say the mass. The miracle is when the bread and wine become body and blood. But even among us Catholics (we're only human after all) we tend to get caught up in the cult of personalities and prefer one parish over another because we like the pastor more. The most significant part of holy mass, the transubstantiation, is often lost on many of us who are more intrigued by the performance of the pastor than the awe of seeing Jesus with our natural eyes and taking him physically into our being.

This pastor has the same plight as all pastors, shepherding congregants who all have competing interests and who resist authority. And he's had it up to here ^ with it. I didn't think anything less about him. Sometimes anger is useful in having things come out that need to be said that were previously sequestered for the sake of polity. I would be amiss to see only this 5 minute clip of this pastor and use it to judge his entire ministry.

Amd some just worship Jesus, cant ever be unhappy with Him.

In all His Love

mjrhealth said:

Amd some just worship Jesus, cant ever be unhappy with Him.

In all His Love

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More to the point, I think that people today are just a bunch of whiny babies. This man's lecture is nothing like the one Moses gave when he came down and found Israel harloting themselves to a golden calf. When pastors start making people drink the watered down ashes of the idols they erected, then people will BEGIN to have license to complain. And people who would leave because the pastor was being "mean" to them....

I heard an unforgettable sermon by a pentacostal preacher I knew labeled, "Stay in your assigned seats". The sermon was about how God is unable to refine certain individuals because when their seat gets a little hot, they escape from it. People go from church to church to church and they pull the ejector lever the moment they face the least amount of adversity or they get offended or the pastor comes down hard on them. Submitting to authority seems to be a lost concept when we get to choose that authority and by choosing, we end up having no authority at all except ourselves. A good shepherd disciplines his flock and a good Christian endures it with the patience of a saint.

ChristRoseFromTheDead said:

   

A discerning Christian would have rebuked that fool for his ungodliness. The problem is that people are cowards and have become slaves to religious organizations.

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What ungodliness is that? I watched the whole clip..I must have missed something.

ChristRoseFromTheDead said:

pride (I'm important, I am somebody), arrogance, the willingness to publicly humiliate others for insignificant perceived offenses (love covers a multitude of sins, and any perceived offense should have been handled privately). The man is ungodly to the core.

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Sounds like a lot of judgmentalism from somebody who doesn't have the first clue what a pastor has to contend with. Exactly what did he do that was prideful? Did he establish that he's the pastor and that those in the congregation are obligated to submit to his authority? St. Paul did that repeatedly. You have no idea what led up to this confrontation or how a congregation resists, chafes, maneuvers, and manipulates under the leadership of their shepherd. You come from a standpoint of sheer ignorance. I know on a VERY PERSONAL level what pastors deal with and what they have to do to jerk the reigns and keep people in line. I know it because my own god-father is a Pentecostal pastor. You have no idea how arrogant YOU sound judging this pastor's spirituality.

This Vale Of Tears said:

Sounds like a lot of judgmentalism from somebody who doesn't have the first clue what a pastor has to contend with. Exactly what did he do that was prideful? Did he establish that he's the pastor and that those in the congregation are obligated to submit to his authority? St. Paul did that repeatedly. You have no idea what led up to this confrontation or how a congregation resists, chafes, maneuvers, and manipulates under the leadership of their shepherd. You come from a standpoint of sheer ignorance. I know on a VERY PERSONAL level what pastors deal with and what they have to do to jerk the reigns and keep people in line. I know it because my own god-father is a Pentecostal pastor. You have no idea how arrogant YOU sound judging this pastor's spirituality.

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Spiritual war lesson #3
In the very beginning he said "I am somebody, I'm important" those words were and will never be inspired by the HS
Lessons 1&2 http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/18569-the-collusion-of-the-american-left-and-world-evil/#entry202158

I ask God that you are learning something TVOT

Rex said:

Spiritual war lesson #3
In the very beginning he said "I am somebody, I'm important" those words were and will never be inspired by the HS
Lessons 1&2 http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/18569-the-collusion-of-the-american-left-and-world-evil/#entry202158

I ask God that you are learning something TVOT

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It's a matter of perspective, isn't it. The same charge could be made against St. Paul who did this repeatedly. He asserted his authority not only as a founding pastor, but an apostle not unequal to the others because he was personally commissioned by Jesus Christ. He asserted his authority to direct and guide and even to be compensated for his ministry. A reprobate mind could as easily accuse him of pride as this pastor who has done no differently. What is truly prideful and arrogant is thinking you know what is and isn't inspired by the Holy Spirit. Like a wind, He cannot be contained, fathomed, or predicted. Both of you are in serious need of some humility.

ChristRoseFromTheDead said:

I judge the man's character by his fruit. It's very telling that you justify his ungodliness.

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Then we disagree.

ChristRoseFromTheDead said:

I judge the man's character by his fruit. It's very telling that you justify his ungodliness.

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Hes not he's back to pushing the non judgmental love and bubbles doctrine
He does the same thing he accuses Paul, you and myself of, the difference being he doesn't realize the power of the HS he's never tasted it.

This Vale Of Tears said:

It's a matter of perspective, isn't it. The same charge could be made against St. Paul who did this repeatedly. He asserted his authority not only as a founding pastor, but an apostle not unequal to the others because he was personally commissioned by Jesus Christ. He asserted his authority to direct and guide and even to be compensated for his ministry. A reprobate mind could as easily accuse him of pride as this pastor who has done no differently. What is truly prideful and arrogant is thinking you know what is and isn't inspired by the Holy Spirit. Like a wind, He cannot be contained, fathomed, or predicted. Both of you are in serious need of some humility.

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He doesn't have a clue 1 Cor 2:15-16

Clearly a man born of the Spirit would at one time or another experienced or have known the mind of God. And just as the man in the video he never would have said the bold words above If he had ever experienced the HS

I am important I am someone, these are the very words TVOT is now repeating striking against the HS.

ChristRoseFromTheDead said:

And I'm sure you're the type of person that would love to provide that humility in the form of a whip. No wonder you're sticking up for the man, you sound just like him. You're being presumptuous to claim Paul acted a certain way. IMO he was far more discerning than you are, and would never have exalted himself like this man did, and publicly humiliated people for such trivial matters (why, you're not even worth 15 cents). Utterly disgraceful behavior for a Christian, especially a pastor.

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I apologize to you and to Rex. As I said before, this is very personal to me because I've seen it from a pastor's perspective, and I'm so close to this issue that I lashed out in anger. Forgive me.

He's a paster
You don't have to apologize to me I was never offended. Please refer to the verse I quoted, it's not even me dreaming up what to say to you now.

Now If you would like to retract your opinion on the subject that's a different matter, because I don't know what your apologizing for.