Is Bible prophecy designed as a parable?

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daq

HSN#1851
Feb 9, 2013
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Olam Haba
Arnie Manitoba said:
This may be somewhat off topic ..... but here is a perfect example of a complete division of prophecy right in the middle of a sentence.

We know this .... because Jesus read only a portion of Isaiah 61 ..... stopped in mid sentence .... rolled up the scroll and handed it back to the synagog attendant and declared ..... “Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”.

Jesus stops there ...... because the prophets foretold two messiahs ..... an afflicted suffering one .... and a great and powerful one.

Jesus read the part of Isaiah 61 that he was fulfilling at the time ..... and then stopped reading .... because the rest is about his future coming in power and glory

The Spirit of the Sovereign Lord is on me,
because the Lord has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted,
to proclaim freedom for the captives
and release from darkness for the prisoners,
to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor
Jesus quoted the above in Luke 4:18-21 , then stopped , because the rest happens in the future
and the day of vengeance of our God,
to comfort all who mourn,
and provide for those who grieve in Zion—
to bestow on them a crown of beauty
instead of ashes,
the oil of joy
instead of mourning,
and a garment of praise
instead of a spirit of despair.
They will be called oaks of righteousness,
a planting of the Lord
for the display of his splendor.

They will rebuild the ancient ruins
and restore the places long devastated;
they will renew the ruined cities
that have been devastated for generations.
Strangers will shepherd your flocks;
foreigners will work your fields and vineyards.
And you will be called priests of the Lord,
you will be named ministers of our God.
You will feed on the wealth of nations,
and in their riches you will boast.



Isn't it fair to say that an old testament Jew reading Isaiah 61 would not have any way of knowing that part of the prophecy stops in mid sentence ... and the rest is fulfilled thousands of years later ?
This concerns "the acceptable YEAR of the Lord" which is one literal YEAR. The second half of Isaiah 61 is fulfilled at Golgotha:

Matthew 26:63-66 KJV
63. But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
64.
Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter [GSN#575+GSN#737 "apo-arti"] shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
65. Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.
66. What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death.


Original Strong's Ref. #575
Romanized apo
Pronounced apo'
a primary particle; "off," i.e. away (from something near), in various senses (of place, time, or relation; literal or figurative):
KJV--(X here-)after, ago, at, because of, before, by (the space of), for(-th), from, in, (out) of, off, (up-)on(-ce), since, with. In composition (as a prefix) it usually denotes separation, departure, cessation, completion, reversal, etc.


Original Strong's Ref. #737
Romanized arti
Pronounced ar'-tee
adverb from a derivative of GSN0142 (compare GSN0740) through the idea of suspension; just now:
KJV--this day (hour), hence[-forth], here[-after], hither[-to], (even) now, (this) present.


"From this day shall be seen the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven" . . .

Isn't it fair to say that the true Jew in Messiah Yeshua, perceiving what had occurred in hindsight, should understand these things?
Yes, that is a fair thing to say; for the true sheep of the Shepherd hear his voice . . . :lol:
 

daq

HSN#1851
Feb 9, 2013
821
63
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Olam Haba
ENOCH2010 said:
daq what is your interpretation of the second coming
More than the following would require an entirely separate thread:

Every "eye" shall see but each in his or her own appointed times.
And then a son is born into the kingdom being neither male nor female.
And no true disciple of the past 2000 years has been left out of this like an orphan! :)
 

ENOCH2010

New Member
Aug 15, 2012
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More than the following would require an entirely separate thread:

Every "eye" shall see but each in his or her own appointed times.
And then a son is born into the kingdom being neither male nor female.
And no true disciple of the past 2000 years has been left out of this like an orphan! :)
That seems to me you don't believe in a literal second coming of Jesus. Am I understanding correctly?
 

daq

HSN#1851
Feb 9, 2013
821
63
0
Olam Haba
ENOCH2010 said:
That seems to me you don't believe in a literal second coming of Jesus. Am I understanding correctly?
It depends on what you mean by "literal" because literal is SPIRIT and the flesh profits nothing in the doctrine of the Master. I do not deny that Yeshua already came into the world in the flesh. However, a man can only give his flesh and blood once; for it is appointed unto men once to die, and with this the judgment. Are you suggesting that Yeshua must come again according to that which is visible to the eyes of the flesh when you say literal? If you are then essentially you are denying that he came in the flesh the first time. Likewise please clarify whether or not you accept the understanding of following New Covenant passage:

2 Corinthians 5:16 TUA (Transliterated Unaccented Bible)
16. Hoste hemeis apo tou nun oudena oidamen katasarka, ei-kai egnokamen kata sarka Christon, alla nun ouketi ginoskomen.

2 Corinthians 5:14-16 KJV
14. For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15. And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16.
Wherefore henceforth [GSN#575 apo+GSN#3568 nun] know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now [GSN#3568 nun] henceforth [GSN#3765 ouketi] know we him no more.


Original Strong's Ref. #3568
Romanized nun
Pronounced noon
a primary particle of present time; "now" (as adverb of date, a transition or emphasis); also as noun or adjective present or immediate:
KJV--henceforth, + hereafter, of late, soon, present, this (time). See also GSN3569, GSN3570.


Original Strong's Ref. #3765
Romanized ouketi
Pronounced ook-et'-ee
also (separately) ouk eti {ook et'-ee); from GSN3756 and GSN2089; not yet, no longer:
KJV--after that (not), (not) any more, henceforth (hereafter) not, no longer (more), not as yet (now), now no more (not), yet (not).


Again "henceforth" in this passage is rendered from multiple words meaning "FROM NOW" and "NOW NO MORE".
From "THIS MOMENT" (as of the writing of 2 Corinthians 5:16) we no longer know Messiah according to the flesh.
If therefore Yeshu returns in the flesh every believer must die because we are his BODY according to New Covenant Scripture.

A simple yes or no answer will suffice: When you say "literal" do mean that which is visible to the eyes of the flesh? :)
 

Trumpeter

New Member
Mar 6, 2013
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Alberta, Canada
daq said- Are you suggesting that Yeshua must come again according to that which is visible to the eyes of the flesh when you say literal?
Greetings daq,

This sounds pretty literal to me:

Act 1:9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.

Act 1:10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel,

Act 1:11 who also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This [same] Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."

God bless.
 

daq

HSN#1851
Feb 9, 2013
821
63
0
Olam Haba
Trumpeter said:
Greetings daq,

This sounds pretty literal to me:

Act 1:9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.

Act 1:10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel,

Act 1:11 who also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This [same] Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."

God bless.
It is an idiomatic statement and speaks according to the Testimony of Yeshua through whom the Father spoke:

Acts 1:9 LIT (Literal Bible with Vertical Strong's #s)
9.
|2532| And
|5023| these things
|2036| saying,
|0991| looking
|0846| them,
|1869| he was taken up,
|2532| and
|3507| a cloud
|5274| received
|0846| him
|0575| from
|3588| the
|3788| eyes
|0846| of them.


Original Strong's Ref. #3788
Romanized ophthalmos
Pronounced of-thal-mos'
from GSN3700; the eye (literally or figuratively); by implication, vision; figuratively, envy (from the jealous side-glance):
KJV--eye, sight.

"A cloud received him from the eyes of them" ~ meaning that their "eyes" became cloudy and they likewise returned to "seeing through a glass darkly-dimly" as both James and Paul write in their respective Epistles.

John 16:16-20 KJV
16. A little while, and ye shall not see [GSN#2334 theoreo] me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see [GSN#3700 optanomai] me, because I go to the Father.
17. Then said some of his disciples among themselves, What is this that he saith unto us, A little while, and ye shall not see [GSN#2334 theoreo] me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see [GSN#3700 optanomai] me: and, Because I go to the Father?
18. They said therefore, What is this that he saith, A little while? we cannot tell what he saith.
19. Now Jesus knew that they were desirous to ask him, and said unto them, Do ye inquire among yourselves of that I said, A little while, and ye shall not see [GSN#2334 theoreo] me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see [GSN#3700 optanomai] me?
20. Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy.


Original Strong's Ref. #2334
Romanized theoreo
Pronounced theh-o-reh'-o
from a derivative of GSN2300 (perhaps by add. of GSN3708); to be a spectator of, i.e. discern, (literally, figuratively [experience] or intensively [acknowledge]):
KJV--behold, consider, look on, perceive, see. Compare GSN3700.

Original Strong's Ref. #3700
Romanized optanomai
Pronounced op-tan'-om-ahee
a (middle voice) prolonged form of the primary (middle voice) optomai {op'-tom-ahee}; which is used for it in certain tenses; and both as alternate of GSN3708; to gaze (i.e. with wide-open eyes, as at something remarkable; and thus differing from GSN0991, which denotes simply voluntary observation; and from GSN1492, which expresses merely mechanical, passive or casual vision; while GSN2300, and still more emphatically its intensive GSN2334, signifies an earnest but more continued inspection; and GSN4648 a watching from a distance):
KJV--appear, look, see, shew self.

Acts 1:9-11 KJV
9. And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, [GSN#991 blepo] he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight [GSN#3788 opthalmos-eyes].
10. And while they looked [GSN#816 atenizo] stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11. Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing [GSN#1689 emblepo] up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen [GSN#2300 theaomai] him go into heaven.


Original Strong's Ref. #991
Romanized blepo
Pronounced blep'-o
a primary verb; to look at (literally or figuratively):
KJV--behold, beware, lie, look (on, to), perceive, regard, see, sight, take heed. Compare GSN3700.

Original Strong's Ref. #816
Romanized atenizo
Pronounced at-en-id'-zo
from a compound of GSN0001 (as a particle of union) and teino (to stretch); to gaze intently:
KJV--behold earnestly (stedfastly), fasten (eyes), look (earnestly, stedfastly, up stedfastly), set eyes.

Original Strong's Ref. #1689
Romanized emblepo
Pronounced em-blep'-o
from GSN1722 and GSN0991; to look on, i.e. (relatively) to observe fixedly, or (absolutely) to discern clearly:
KJV--behold, gaze up, look upon, (could) see.


Original Strong's Ref. #2300
Romanized theaomai
Pronounced theh-ah'-om-ahee
a prolonged form of a primary verb; to look closely at, i.e. (by implication) perceive (literally or figuratively); by extension to visit:
KJV--behold, look (upon), see. Compare GSN3700.


Revelation 1:7 KJV
7. Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye [GSN#3788 opthalmos] shall see [GSN#3700 optanomai] him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.


John 14:18-23 KJV
18. I will not leave you comfortless: [GSN#3737 orphanos-orphans] I will come to you.
19. Yet a little while, and the world seeth [GSN#2334 theoreo] me no more; but ye see me: [GSN#2334 theoreo] because I live, ye shall live also.
20. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22. Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23. Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.


It is the supernal meaning of the eye of the one who walks according to the Spirit. Therefore if you have two eyes and your right eye offends you, pluck it out, and cast it from you: for it is profitable for you that one of you members should perish, and not that your whole body should be cast into hell. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. The light of the body is the eye: if therefore your eye be single, your whole body shall be full of light. But if your eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you be darkness, how great is that darkness! :)
 

Retrobyter

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Shalom, ENOCH2010.

ENOCH2010 said:
That seems to me you don't believe in a literal second coming of Jesus. Am I understanding correctly?

daq said:
It depends on what you mean by "literal" because literal is SPIRIT and the flesh profits nothing in the doctrine of the Master. I do not deny that Yeshua already came into the world in the flesh. However, a man can only give his flesh and blood once; for it is appointed unto men once to die, and with this the judgment. Are you suggesting that Yeshua must come again according to that which is visible to the eyes of the flesh when you say literal? If you are then essentially you are denying that he came in the flesh the first time. Likewise please clarify whether or not you accept the understanding of following New Covenant passage:

2 Corinthians 5:16 TUA (Transliterated Unaccented Bible)
16. Hoste hemeis apo tou nun oudena oidamen katasarka, ei-kai egnokamen kata sarka Christon, alla nun ouketi ginoskomen.

2 Corinthians 5:14-16 KJV
14. For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15. And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16.
Wherefore henceforth [GSN#575 apo+GSN#3568 nun] know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now [GSN#3568 nun] henceforth [GSN#3765 ouketi] know we him no more.


Original Strong's Ref. #3568
Romanized nun
Pronounced noon
a primary particle of present time; "now" (as adverb of date, a transition or emphasis); also as noun or adjective present or immediate:
KJV--henceforth, + hereafter, of late, soon, present, this (time). See also GSN3569, GSN3570.


Original Strong's Ref. #3765
Romanized ouketi
Pronounced ook-et'-ee
also (separately) ouk eti {ook et'-ee); from GSN3756 and GSN2089; not yet, no longer:
KJV--after that (not), (not) any more, henceforth (hereafter) not, no longer (more), not as yet (now), now no more (not), yet (not).


Again "henceforth" in this passage is rendered from multiple words meaning "FROM NOW" and "NOW NO MORE".
From "THIS MOMENT" (as of the writing of 2 Corinthians 5:16) we no longer know Messiah according to the flesh.
If therefore Yeshu returns in the flesh every believer must die because we are his BODY according to New Covenant Scripture.

A simple yes or no answer will suffice: When you say "literal" do mean that which is visible to the eyes of the flesh? :)
Boiled down to the essentials, yes, you are understanding daq correctly.

Daq is a master of double-talk. Even his "literal" doesn't mean "literal!"

_____


Shalom, daq.

daq said:
It depends on what you mean by "literal" because literal is SPIRIT and the flesh profits nothing in the doctrine of the Master. I do not deny that Yeshua already came into the world in the flesh. However, a man can only give his flesh and blood once; for it is appointed unto men once to die, and with this the judgment. Are you suggesting that Yeshua must come again according to that which is visible to the eyes of the flesh when you say literal? If you are then essentially you are denying that he came in the flesh the first time. Likewise please clarify whether or not you accept the understanding of following New Covenant passage:

2 Corinthians 5:16 TUA (Transliterated Unaccented Bible)
16. Hoste hemeis apo tou nun oudena oidamen katasarka, ei-kai egnokamen kata sarka Christon, alla nun ouketi ginoskomen.

2 Corinthians 5:14-16 KJV
14. For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15. And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16.
Wherefore henceforth [GSN#575 apo+GSN#3568 nun] know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now [GSN#3568 nun] henceforth [GSN#3765 ouketi] know we him no more.


Original Strong's Ref. #3568
Romanized nun
Pronounced noon
a primary particle of present time; "now" (as adverb of date, a transition or emphasis); also as noun or adjective present or immediate:
KJV--henceforth, + hereafter, of late, soon, present, this (time). See also GSN3569, GSN3570.


Original Strong's Ref. #3765
Romanized ouketi
Pronounced ook-et'-ee
also (separately) ouk eti {ook et'-ee); from GSN3756 and GSN2089; not yet, no longer:
KJV--after that (not), (not) any more, henceforth (hereafter) not, no longer (more), not as yet (now), now no more (not), yet (not).


Again "henceforth" in this passage is rendered from multiple words meaning "FROM NOW" and "NOW NO MORE".
From "THIS MOMENT" (as of the writing of 2 Corinthians 5:16) we no longer know Messiah according to the flesh.
If therefore Yeshu returns in the flesh every believer must die because we are his BODY according to New Covenant Scripture.

A simple yes or no answer will suffice: When you say "literal" do mean that which is visible to the eyes of the flesh? :)
Daq, ol' buddy, you've got some SERIOUS problems! When you said, "I do not deny that Yeshua already came into the world in the flesh. However, a man can only give his flesh and blood once; for it is appointed unto men once to die, and with this the judgment. Are you suggesting that Yeshua must come again according to that which is visible to the eyes of the flesh when you say literal? If you are then essentially you are denying that he came in the flesh the first time," you've made some GROSS logical errors.

First of all, you ASSUME that to come into the world in the flesh means that one must die in the flesh. As you quoted indirectly, "it is appointed unto men once to die," and you've correctly understood that Yeshua` DID already die. HOWEVER, your assumption is in error because it is not necessarily so that a man who comes in the flesh must die!

Second, so when you conclude that if Enoch was "essentially ... denying that he came in the flesh the first time," because he suggested that "Yeshua must come again according to that which is visible to the eyes of the flesh," you make your second fallacy: Yeshua` has a body that was LITERALLY RAISED FROM THE DEAD! And, that body CANNOT EVER DIE AGAIN because it is a IMMORTAL BODY!

Consider the following passages together:


Luke 24:33-43
33 And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,
34 Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.
35 And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread.
36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.
KJV

John 20:19-31
19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
KJV

John 21:1-14
1 After these things Jesus shewed himself again to the disciples at the sea of Tiberias; and on this wise shewed he himself.
2 There were together Simon Peter, and Thomas called Didymus, and Nathanael of Cana in Galilee, and the sons of Zebedee, and two other of his disciples.
3 Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing. They say unto him, We also go with thee. They went forth, and entered into a ship immediately; and that night they caught nothing.
4 But when the morning was now come, Jesus stood on the shore: but the disciples knew not that it was Jesus.
5 Then Jesus saith unto them, Children, have ye any meat? They answered him, No.
6 And he said unto them, Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find. They cast therefore, and now they were not able to draw it for the multitude of fishes.
7 Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fisher's coat unto him, (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea.
8 And the other disciples came in a little ship; (for they were not far from land, but as it were two hundred cubits,) dragging the net with fishes.
9 As soon then as they were come to land, they saw a fire of coals there, and fish laid thereon, and bread.
10 Jesus saith unto them, Bring of the fish which ye have now caught.
11 Simon Peter went up, and drew the net to land full of great fishes, and hundred and fifty and three: and for all there were so many, yet was not the net broken.
12 Jesus saith unto them, Come and dine. And none of the disciples durst ask him, Who art thou? knowing that it was the Lord.
13 Jesus then cometh, and taketh bread, and giveth them, and fish likewise.
14 This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his disciples, after that he was risen from the dead.
KJV

1 Corinthians 15:50-54
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
KJV

The disciples LITERALLY saw the Lord in His incorruptible, immortal body! A LITERAL, PHYSICAL, body that could be handled and felt, a body that could eat and drink, a body that would NEVER DIE AGAIN! A body NOT of "flesh and blood," but a body with "flesh and bones!" He even SAID He was not a spirit (a ghost)!

So, why does everything have to be some sort of play on "supernal words" or an "idiom-parable" for you? Just BELIEVE THE SCRIPTURES! Yeshua` PROMISED that He would return - LITERALLY! He said He was going to prepare for us a place, but that He would be back!

So, just open your mind to the very literal truth of the Scriptures and read this again:


Acts 1:9-11
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
KJV


It's really a simple matter: Yeshua` was walking along with them and ... LOOK! ... He was taken up and disappeared behind a cloud! And, while they were studying the sky as He was ascending, suddenly there were two men standing beside them in white clothes, who said, "You guys from the Galiyl, why are you staring up into the sky? This same Yeshua` who is taken up from you into the sky, shall so arrive in the same way as you have seen Him go into the sky!" I.e., He is going to LITERALLY DESCEND to the earth FROM the clouds in the sky in the reverse steps!

These two guys probably startled them when they started talking! They didn't see them walk up to them because they were gazing so intently at the sky where Yeshua` had disappeared from sight! (That may have been because they DIDN'T walk up to them but just appeared, but we're not told either way!)

We're also not told where these two guys went afterward! However, this is no "parable!" This is not a "story" (which implies fiction). This is an ACCOUNT; this is RECORDED HISTORY! This is a LITERAL EVENT in the lives of these disciples! They became EYE-WITNESSES of this event!

P.S., I should have added that "nun ouketi" simply means "away from the Now" or "away from the present," i.e., the FUTURE!
 

daq

HSN#1851
Feb 9, 2013
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Retrobyter said:
Shalom, ENOCH2010.




Boiled down to the essentials, yes, you are understanding daq correctly.

Daq is a master of double-talk. Even his "literal" doesn't mean "literal!"
When you are in a pack of wolves anything you say can and will be used against you. Therefore the question was answered yet answered with a question. Why should I give the wolves here any opportunity to take what I say out of its context somewhere else in order to slander and defame? There are some here that have already done such things when it was expedient. Perhaps some of you should lose that beast nature that is in you and complete your sanctification; then not only could we talk straight but you might begin to "see" clearly what is being said in and from the Scripture. So long as you are not willing to mortify the deeds of the body and your own members which are upon the 'erets you will not be allowed to see anything truly holy because literal is SPIRIT.

Zecharyah 11:7-17 OJB
7. So I did shepherd the tzon haharegah (the flock marked for slaughter), even aniyei hatzon (the poor of the flock). And I took unto me two maklot (staffs); the one I called No'am (gracious care), and the other I called Chovelim (bindings [of union, cf.11:14]); and I did shepherd the tzon (flock).
8. Shloshet haro'im (three of the shepherds) also I disposed of in one month; and my nefesh wearied of them, and their nefesh also abhorred me.
9. Then said I, I will not shepherd you; that which dieth, let it die; and that which is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let those that are left eat every one the basar of another.
10. And I took my staff, even No'am, and I broke it asunder, breaking off my Brit (covenant) which I had made with kol ha'amim (all the peoples).
11. And it was broken on that day; and so the aniyei hatzon (poor of the flock), who were the shomrim giving heed to me, perceived that this was the Devar Hashem.
12. And I said unto them, If ye think tov, give me my sachar (price); and if not, refrain. So they weighed out for my sachar (price) shloshim kesef (thirty pieces of silver).
13. And Hashem said unto me, Throw it unto the yotzer (potter); the magnificent price that I was priced of them. So I took the shloshim hakesef, and threw them to the yotzer (potter) in the Beis Hashem. [SHEMOT 21:32; MT 26:14-15; 27:3-10; AC 1:18-19].
14. Then I broke my second staff, called Chovelim, breaking off the achavah (brotherhood) between Yehudah and Yisroel.
15. And Hashem said unto me, Take unto thee yet the keli (implements) of a foolish ro'eh (shepherd).
16. For, hinei, I will raise up a ro'eh in ha'aretz, which shall not care for the dying, nor look for the na'ar (young one), nor heal that which is injured, nor feed the healthy; but he shall eat the basar of the choice, and tear off their hooves.
17. Hoy (woe) to the worthless ro'eh (shepherd) that deserteth the tzon! May the cherev (sword) be upon his zero'a (arm), and upon his right eye; let his zero'a wither away, and his right eye be utterly extinguished.

Cut off your own "worthless shepherds" which are "tares" in the midst your own Tsebiy ha-'Erets.
For the Master reveals himself and the Father; not to the world, but to his talmidim-disciples.
You cannot serve two masters: the right eye has to go so that your eye be focused . . . :)
 

Retrobyter

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Shalom, daq.

daq said:
When you are in a pack of wolves anything you say can and will be used against you. Therefore the question was answered yet answered with a question. Why should I give the wolves here any opportunity to take what I say out of its context somewhere else in order to slander and defame? There are some here that have already done such things when it was expedient. Perhaps some of you should lose that beast nature that is in you and complete your sanctification; then not only could we talk straight but you might begin to "see" clearly what is being said in and from the Scripture. So long as you are not willing to mortify the deeds of the body and your own members which are upon the 'erets you will not be allowed to see anything truly holy because literal is SPIRIT.

Zecharyah 11:7-17 OJB
7. So I did shepherd the tzon haharegah (the flock marked for slaughter), even aniyei hatzon (the poor of the flock). And I took unto me two maklot (staffs); the one I called No'am (gracious care), and the other I called Chovelim (bindings [of union, cf.11:14]); and I did shepherd the tzon (flock).
8. Shloshet haro'im (three of the shepherds) also I disposed of in one month; and my nefesh wearied of them, and their nefesh also abhorred me.
9. Then said I, I will not shepherd you; that which dieth, let it die; and that which is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let those that are left eat every one the basar of another.
10. And I took my staff, even No'am, and I broke it asunder, breaking off my Brit (covenant) which I had made with kol ha'amim (all the peoples).
11. And it was broken on that day; and so the aniyei hatzon (poor of the flock), who were the shomrim giving heed to me, perceived that this was the Devar Hashem.
12. And I said unto them, If ye think tov, give me my sachar (price); and if not, refrain. So they weighed out for my sachar (price) shloshim kesef (thirty pieces of silver).
13. And Hashem said unto me, Throw it unto the yotzer (potter); the magnificent price that I was priced of them. So I took the shloshim hakesef, and threw them to the yotzer (potter) in the Beis Hashem. [SHEMOT 21:32; MT 26:14-15; 27:3-10; AC 1:18-19].
14. Then I broke my second staff, called Chovelim, breaking off the achavah (brotherhood) between Yehudah and Yisroel.
15. And Hashem said unto me, Take unto thee yet the keli (implements) of a foolish ro'eh (shepherd).
16. For, hinei, I will raise up a ro'eh in ha'aretz, which shall not care for the dying, nor look for the na'ar (young one), nor heal that which is injured, nor feed the healthy; but he shall eat the basar of the choice, and tear off their hooves.
17. Hoy (woe) to the worthless ro'eh (shepherd) that deserteth the tzon! May the cherev (sword) be upon his zero'a (arm), and upon his right eye; let his zero'a wither away, and his right eye be utterly extinguished.

Cut off your own "worthless shepherds" which are "tares" in the midst your own Tsebiy ha-'Erets.
For the Master reveals himself and the Father; not to the world, but to his talmidim-disciples.
You cannot serve two masters: the right eye has to go so that your eye be focused . . . :)
Fooey. It is neither slander nor defamation to call a spade a spade.
 

Trumpeter

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We're also not told where these two guys went afterward! However, this is no "parable!" This is not a "story" (which implies fiction). This is an ACCOUNT; this is RECORDED HISTORY! This is a LITERAL EVENT in the lives of these disciples! They became EYE-WITNESSES of this event!
Amen Retro.
 

daq

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Feb 9, 2013
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Retrobyter said:
Daq, ol' buddy, you've got some SERIOUS problems! When you said, "I do not deny that Yeshua already came into the world in the flesh. However, a man can only give his flesh and blood once; for it is appointed unto men once to die, and with this the judgment. Are you suggesting that Yeshua must come again according to that which is visible to the eyes of the flesh when you say literal? If you are then essentially you are denying that he came in the flesh the first time," you've made some GROSS logical errors.

First of all, you ASSUME that to come into the world in the flesh means that one must die in the flesh. As you quoted indirectly, "it is appointed unto men once to die," and you've correctly understood that Yeshua` DID already die. HOWEVER, your assumption is in error because it is not necessarily so that a man who comes in the flesh must die!

Second, so when you conclude that if Enoch was "essentially ... denying that he came in the flesh the first time," because he suggested that "Yeshua must come again according to that which is visible to the eyes of the flesh," you make your second fallacy: Yeshua` has a body that was LITERALLY RAISED FROM THE DEAD! And, that body CANNOT EVER DIE AGAIN because it is a IMMORTAL BODY!

*snip*

The disciples LITERALLY saw the Lord in His incorruptible, immortal body! A LITERAL, PHYSICAL, body that could be handled and felt, a body that could eat and drink, a body that would NEVER DIE AGAIN! A body NOT of "flesh and blood," but a body with "flesh and bones!" He even SAID He was not a spirit (a ghost)!

So, why does everything have to be some sort of play on "supernal words" or an "idiom-parable" for you? Just BELIEVE THE SCRIPTURES! Yeshua` PROMISED that He would return - LITERALLY! He said He was going to prepare for us a place, but that He would be back!

So, just open your mind to the very literal truth of the Scriptures and read this again:


Acts 1:9-11
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
KJV


It's really a simple matter: Yeshua` was walking along with them and ... LOOK! ... He was taken up and disappeared behind a cloud! And, while they were studying the sky as He was ascending, suddenly there were two men standing beside them in white clothes, who said, "You guys from the Galiyl, why are you staring up into the sky? This same Yeshua` who is taken up from you into the sky, shall so arrive in the same way as you have seen Him go into the sky!" I.e., He is going to LITERALLY DESCEND to the earth FROM the clouds in the sky in the reverse steps!

These two guys probably startled them when they started talking! They didn't see them walk up to them because they were gazing so intently at the sky where Yeshua` had disappeared from sight! (That may have been because they DIDN'T walk up to them but just appeared, but we're not told either way!)

We're also not told where these two guys went afterward! However, this is no "parable!" This is not a "story" (which implies fiction). This is an ACCOUNT; this is RECORDED HISTORY! This is a LITERAL EVENT in the lives of these disciples! They became EYE-WITNESSES of this event!

P.S., I should have added that "nun ouketi" simply means "away from the Now" or "away from the present," i.e., the FUTURE!
It did not say it was not a real event but rather that the statement of the two messengers in brilliant white raiment was an idiomatic statement. When will you learn that without Torah we know nothing of what things Yeshua spoke, taught, and expounded? The story of the passing of Jacob in Egypt and his so-called "embalming" (most English translations) has everything to do with the burial of Messiah and how it was performed. Israel was not however "embalmed" but rather "spiced" upon his passing in the land of Egypt. Likewise the physicians of Joseph, (not those of Pharaoh) which performed the spicing ceremony are called rapha'-healers, and this form of rapha' is likewise from where the name of the messenger Rapha'el is derived.

Genesis 50:2-3 KJV
2. And Joseph commanded his servants the physicians [HSN#7495 rapha'] to embalm [HSN#2590 chanat] his father: and the physicians [HSN#7495 rapha'] embalmed [HSN#2590 chanat] Israel.
3.
And forty days were fulfilled for him; for so are fulfilled the days of those which are embalmed: [HSN#2590 chanat] and the Egyptians mourned for him threescore and ten days.

Original Strong's Ref. #7495
Romanized rapha'
Pronounced raw-faw'
or raphah {raw-faw'}; a primitive root; properly, to mend (by stitching), i.e. (figuratively) to cure:
KJV--cure, (cause to) heal, physician, repair, X thoroughly, make whole. See HSN7503.

Original Strong's Ref. #2590
Romanized chanat
Pronounced khaw-nat'
a primitive root; to spice; by implication, to embalm; also to ripen:
KJV--embalm, put forth.

Forty Days are "fulfilled" for Israel, ("for so it is with those having been spiced").

The same Forty Days are again fulfilled in Yeshua who was likewise "spiced" at burial:

John 19:38-40 KJV
38. And after this Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave him leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus.
39. And there came also Nicodemus, which at the first came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an hundred pound weight.
40. Then took they the body of Jesus,
and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.

Forty Days ~ 17 Nisan to 27 Iyyar ~ Acts 1:9

Luke 24:42 KJV (17 Nisan - Firstfruits of the Harvest)
42. And they gave him a piece of a broiled [baked on coals] fish, and of an honeycomb.


Elijah goes the same Forty Days on a small meal to Horeb the Mountain of God:

1 Kings 19:1-8 KJV
5. And as he lay and slept under a juniper tree, behold, then an angel touched him, and said unto him, Arise and eat.
6. And he looked, and, behold, there was a cake baken on the coals, and a cruse of water at his head. And he did eat and drink, and laid him down again.
7. And the angel of the Lord came again the second time, and touched him, and said, Arise and eat;
because the journey is too great for thee.
8. And he arose, and did eat and drink, and went in the strength of that meat forty days and forty nights unto Horeb the mount of God.

Acts 1:2-3 KJV
2. Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
3. To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs,
being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

Yeshua was seen of them Forty Days and then received up into a cloud on 27 Iyyar.
27 Iyyar is the Day wherein Noah and his family came forth from the Ark and offered up burnt offerings to God:

Genesis 8:14-21 KJV
14. And in the second month, on the seven and twentieth day of the month, was the earth dried.
15. And God spake unto Noah, saying,
16. Go forth of the ark, thou, and thy wife, and thy sons, and thy sons' wives with thee.
17. Bring forth with thee every living thing that is with thee, of all flesh, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth; that they may breed abundantly in the earth, and be fruitful, and multiply upon the earth.
18. And Noah went forth, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him:
19. Every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, and whatsoever creepeth upon the earth, after their kinds, went forth out of the ark.
20. And Noah builded an altar unto the Lord; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
21.
And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

And the Father smelled the sweet savour of THE SMOKE of the burnt offering ascending up into heaven.

Acts 1:9 KJV (27 Iyyar)
9. And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

2 Corinthians 5:16 KJV
16. Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.


So you see Paul is correct and you are not. And why? Because Paul loved the Father, loved Torah, and then he met Yeshua on the road to Damascus. And when Paul met Yeshua what he saw was a pure white blinding Light; no man, no body, only the Light. :)
 

daq

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Feb 9, 2013
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Trumpeter said:
Rev 1:7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
That makes four posts from the previous page which you must have either completely ignored or simply could not see. Again, in the passage you have quoted, the eye is singular both in the Greek and in every English translation that I know of. Therefore if your right eye offends you pluck it out and cast it from you as the Master says. Do you need someone else to tell you who and what is your "right eye" (the more powerful one) that is offending you? It is not my job to judge another but I will make a suggestion which regards you and only you: Perhaps his name is "Timothy" and perhaps that one has blinded your other good eye with his blasphemies; claiming to speak new Torah-Word from the Father which was in truth not given to him from the Father but from someone else. One of the more critical aspects of the current dialogue in this thread is the fact that we are admonished and forewarned to test the spirits to see whether they be of God or not. This is likewise because Yeshua is now Spirit. :)
 

ENOCH2010

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daq the Lord will come again in His resurrected body, the same type body that Christians will receive at His coming.
 

Arnie Manitoba

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Sheesh !!! ..... I see daq and the trumpet are blowing hard as usual.

GuySmith asked a good question as the topic of this thread.

Maybe a moderator could move all the daq-trumpet-blow-hard stuff to a scrap-pile thread somewhere else

thanks
 

daq

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Feb 9, 2013
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ENOCH2010 said:
daq the Lord will come again in His resurrected body, the same type body that Christians will receive at His coming.
Matthew 15:24 RSV
24. He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

If one is not willing to become like the Canaanite woman of Tyre, who was willing to become like "a dog" sitting beneath the table of the Master waiting from crumbs of Truth to fall from his table, then the same cannot be grafted into the Olive Tree of the commonwealth of the all Israel of YHWH, (who is the Husbandman, Planter, and Pruner of the Olive Tree). Yeshua himself clearly and emphatically states that if you are not of "the lost sheep of the house of Israel" then he was NOT SENT TO YOU. Therefore it is we who must repent, change directions, and allow our hearts and mindsets to be converted into the mind of Messiah. If you are willing to become one of the lost sheep of the house of Israel then you will indeed hear his voice because, as he says; "My sheep hear my voice" and likewise to those which hear his voice, as already quoted:

"If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. If ye love me, keep my commandments: and I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Parakletos, that he may abide with you for ever; even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you as orphans: I will come unto you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? Yeshua answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him" . . . :)

Arnie Manitoba said:
Sheesh !!! ..... I see daq and the trumpet are blowing hard as usual.

GuySmith asked a good question as the topic of this thread.

Maybe a moderator could move all the daq-trumpet-blow-hard stuff to a scrap-pile thread somewhere else

thanks
Much of what has been posted comes in the form of parables, idioms, and is therefore on-topic. In addition I clearly stated that this conversation would require an entire new thread but several others could not resist the opportunity to try and concoct some dirt against a perceived enemy. And now you see what has happened because you and your cronies do not have the Scripture, (and if you have not the Scripture then likewise you have not Spirit holy). Funny how you said that you put me on ignore but cannot seem to ignore. Funny how even after you had not spoken to me following that statement I saw you in "Yeshua Says" when no one else was even posting there but myself for quite some time. Why were you reading my threads if you had me on ignore? Funny how your answer for those who disagree with you is no different than your bedfellows the Sodomites who force themselves and their wills upon others; and when it doesn't work they attempt to silence their perceived enemies any way they can, whether it be through constantly reporting lies to the moderators, spreading lies and slander in the community, attempting to force people to leave, or by getting them banned, or their statement deleted, or calling people who disagree with you "anti-Semites" not knowing whether the very person you accuse might even be a Jew himself or not. Do you not know that murder comes forth out of your mouth? and that this is because it proceeded from your heart? In the doctrine of Yeshua you do not actually have to commit literal murder with your literal hands to be a literal murderer:

Matthew 15:18-20 KJV
18. But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts,
murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20. These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.


1 John 3:12-15 KJV
12. Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
13. Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
14. We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
15.
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.


Dear moderators: it seems your forums are infested with serial murderers. :)




"Is Bible prophecy designed as a parable?" ~

John 16:13-25 KJV
13. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
16. A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.
17. Then said some of his disciples among themselves, What is this that he saith unto us, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me: and, Because I go to the Father?
18. They said therefore, What is this that he saith, A little while? we cannot tell what he saith.
19. Now Jesus knew that they were desirous to ask him, and said unto them, Do ye inquire among yourselves of that I said, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me?
20. Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy.
21. A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.
22. And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you.
23. And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
24. Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.
25.
These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: [GSN#3942 paroimia] but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.

Original Strong's Ref. #3942
Romanized paroimia
Pronounced par-oy-mee'-ah
from a compound of GSN3844 and perhaps a derivative of GSN3633; apparently a state alongside of supposition, i.e. (concretely) an adage; specifically, an enigmatical or fictitious illustration:
KJV--parable, proverb.

BDB Strong's Greek Definition for #3942
3942 // paroimia // paroimia // par-oy-mee'-ah //
from a compound of 3844 and perhaps a derivative of 3633 ;
TDNT - 5:854,790; n f
AV - proverb 4, parable 1; 5
1) a saying out of the usual course or deviating from the usual
manner of speaking
1a) a current or trite saying, a proverb
2) any dark saying which shadows forth some didactic truth
2a) esp. a symbolic or figurative saying
2b) speech or discourse in which a thing is illustrated by the use
of similes and comparisons
2c) an allegory
2c1) extended and elaborate metaphor
 

Trumpeter

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daq said:
That makes four posts from the previous page which you must have either completely ignored or simply could not see. Again, in the passage you have quoted, the eye is singular both in the Greek and in every English translation that I know of. Therefore if your right eye offends you pluck it out and cast it from you as the Master says. Do you need someone else to tell you who and what is your "right eye" (the more powerful one) that is offending you? It is not my job to judge another but I will make a suggestion which regards you and only you: Perhaps his name is "Timothy" and perhaps that one has blinded your other good eye with his blasphemies; claiming to speak new Torah-Word from the Father which was in truth not given to him from the Father but from someone else. One of the more critical aspects of the current dialogue in this thread is the fact that we are admonished and forewarned to test the spirits to see whether they be of God or not. This is likewise because Yeshua is now Spirit. :)
Amo 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD does nothing, Unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets.
 

daq

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Feb 9, 2013
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Olam Haba
Trumpeter said:
Amo 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD does nothing, Unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets.

Well I give you credit for at least using Scripture this time, :) but the problem is that "Timothy" says this:


Trumpeter said:
From God The Father: If all the mighty works of The Lord are broken down into mere parables and metaphors, then you are lost, forever consumed by talk and confusion, for this is the way of the evil one.

Excerpt from:

The Great Day of the Lord
And unfortunately it is a completely false statement whether speaking of the Father or the Son Yeshua whom the Father spoke through. All of those IDIOMS, PARABLES, ALLEGORIES, and METAPHORS found in the Gospel accounts ought to be enough evidence would you not agree? :D
 

daq

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Feb 9, 2013
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Olam Haba
daq said:
It did not say it was not a real event but rather that the statement of the two messengers in brilliant white raiment was an idiomatic statement. When will you learn that without Torah we know nothing of what things Yeshua spoke, taught, and expounded? The story of the passing of Jacob in Egypt and his so-called "embalming" (most English translations) has everything to do with the burial of Messiah and how it was performed. Israel was not however "embalmed" but rather "spiced" upon his passing in the land of Egypt. Likewise the physicians of Joseph, (not those of Pharaoh) which performed the spicing ceremony are called rapha'-healers, and this form of rapha' is likewise from where the name of the messenger Rapha'el is derived.

Genesis 50:2-3 KJV
2. And Joseph commanded his servants the physicians [HSN#7495 rapha'] to embalm [HSN#2590 chanat] his father: and the physicians [HSN#7495 rapha'] embalmed [HSN#2590 chanat] Israel.
3.
And forty days were fulfilled for him; for so are fulfilled the days of those which are embalmed: [HSN#2590 chanat] and the Egyptians mourned for him threescore and ten days.

Original Strong's Ref. #7495
Romanized rapha'
Pronounced raw-faw'
or raphah {raw-faw'}; a primitive root; properly, to mend (by stitching), i.e. (figuratively) to cure:
KJV--cure, (cause to) heal, physician, repair, X thoroughly, make whole. See HSN7503.

Original Strong's Ref. #2590
Romanized chanat
Pronounced khaw-nat'
a primitive root; to spice; by implication, to embalm; also to ripen:
KJV--embalm, put forth.

Forty Days are "fulfilled" for Israel, ("for so it is with those having been spiced").

The same Forty Days are again fulfilled in Yeshua who was likewise "spiced" at burial:

John 19:38-40 KJV
38. And after this Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave him leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus.
39. And there came also Nicodemus, which at the first came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an hundred pound weight.
40. Then took they the body of Jesus,
and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.

Forty Days ~ 17 Nisan to 27 Iyyar ~ Acts 1:9

Luke 24:42 KJV (17 Nisan - Firstfruits of the Harvest)
42. And they gave him a piece of a broiled [baked on coals] fish, and of an honeycomb.


Elijah goes the same Forty Days on a small meal to Horeb the Mountain of God:

1 Kings 19:1-8 KJV
5. And as he lay and slept under a juniper tree, behold, then an angel touched him, and said unto him, Arise and eat.
6. And he looked, and, behold, there was a cake baken on the coals, and a cruse of water at his head. And he did eat and drink, and laid him down again.
7. And the angel of the Lord came again the second time, and touched him, and said, Arise and eat;
because the journey is too great for thee.
8. And he arose, and did eat and drink, and went in the strength of that meat forty days and forty nights unto Horeb the mount of God.

Acts 1:2-3 KJV
2. Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
3. To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs,
being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

Yeshua was seen of them Forty Days and then received up into a cloud on 27 Iyyar.
27 Iyyar is the Day wherein Noah and his family came forth from the Ark and offered up burnt offerings to God:

Genesis 8:14-21 KJV
14. And in the second month, on the seven and twentieth day of the month, was the earth dried.
15. And God spake unto Noah, saying,
16. Go forth of the ark, thou, and thy wife, and thy sons, and thy sons' wives with thee.
17. Bring forth with thee every living thing that is with thee, of all flesh, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth; that they may breed abundantly in the earth, and be fruitful, and multiply upon the earth.
18. And Noah went forth, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him:
19. Every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, and whatsoever creepeth upon the earth, after their kinds, went forth out of the ark.
20. And Noah builded an altar unto the Lord; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
21.
And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

And the Father smelled the sweet savour of THE SMOKE of the burnt offering ascending up into heaven.

Acts 1:9 KJV (27 Iyyar)
9. And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

2 Corinthians 5:16 KJV
16. Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.


So you see Paul is correct and you are not. And why? Because Paul loved the Father, loved Torah, and then he met Yeshua on the road to Damascus. And when Paul met Yeshua what he saw was a pure white blinding Light; no man, no body, only the Light. :)
ENOCH2010 said:
daq the Lord will come again in His resurrected body, the same type body that Christians will receive at His coming.
Enoch2010 both you and Retrobyter were here in this thread and now in the following thread:

Christ will come again Post#65-109

What else do I owe the two of you when both of you willingly choose to be double blind? :)