"Challenge" from a non-Christian

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bihzor

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Something like this seems to happen to me once every year, usually in the Spring or Summer…
I have been in dialogue with a scientifically-minded young lady with leanings towards Eastern religions. Here is my most recent email from her, which ended in a “challenge,” and I’d love to know how some of you would respond to this:
“Your religion isn't the only one out there, it isn't the most interesting of the ones that are, and you seem oddly incapable of wrapping your head around the fact that even if I did know all the specifics of the Bible, I still wouldn't consider it to be my moral compass. Even if Jesus was really the son of God, I wouldn't see him as anything more than some freakish half-human hybrid who happened to be a nice guy.
Even if Jesus really did rise from the dead -- which is doubtful, given that very few credible scientists of this day, try though they might for science's sake, have found any evidence of the existence of the supernatural -- it wouldn't be a grounds for me to feel sympathetic towards Christianity. My fundamental philosophy hinges on the idea that no aspect of reality is innately divine, so even if an all-powerful creator God did exist, and could have a human son (like seriously, what is God's DNA like? Because Jesus couldn't have gotten his Y chromosome from his mother, and besides, all humans have two copies of their genome, with each of the two alleles from each of the two parents, so God must have some kind of human-compatible DNA, in which case, OH MY SUBJECT OF THIS SENTENCE, GOD HAS DNA), it wouldn't mean that I'd worship said God, or believe that I ought to do anything other than politely acknowledge his existence.
Trying to force your faith in abstract ideas into a mold that can fit reality is never going to work. The abstract ideas are the important ones, not the specific myths. I'll pretend for a moment that Jesus really did rise from the dead. What does that matter, in the end? What use is there in believing that to be true? It doesn't help me find order in the world, or find peace of heart, or understand life's mysteries. It's a simple story, a narrative no more inundated with significance than the fact that the earth goes round the sun, or that gravity pulls objects of mass together. It happened; it happens. This is reality, where things happen. It doesn't make me particularly enlightened to believe these tales verbatim et literatim. If they were true, then I can do no more than simply know that. One doesn't BELIEVE in simple facts. There's no point in believing something that you know is true.
Real belief lies in the abstraction. If Jesus really did rise from the dead and you could offer proof of that, then you would have, in effect, DISPROVEN the existence of the divine and supernatural, because it means that divinity IS natural, that resurrection IS possible, and so God is not God at all, but a thing governed by reality. But the reason why we cling to old tales is because they come from a far older, more literal time, where people didn't have answers for any of the inner workings of the universe and had to make do with stories.
The abstract ideas of morality and goodness and so on exist outside of the confines of your mythology, or anyone else's. And they are worth believing in. But the rest of it is just packaging. God and Jesus are the superfluous styrofoam and bubble wrap for such fragile, delicate ideas as humans can find. They're fun to play with and pop but if you keep your morals in the wrapping all the time, of course they won't break, but you'll never be able to use them.
But though it must in the end be discarded, the packaging is still important, because without it you'll never be able to sent these beautifully gift-wrapped abstract ideals by parcel post to anyone else.
Here’s a challenge for you: WITHOUT MENTIONING anything specific, up to and including God, Jesus, Heaven, Hell, devils, angels, Trinities, saints, sinners, Apostles, Commandments, Adam, Eve, or ANYTHING like that, tell me what at its core Christianity means to you, and why it, above all else, shows you how to be a good person. Give it to me in its abstract form. Because if it can't function without the trappings of mythology, I couldn't even begin to consider it worth my time.”
 

Rex

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http://www.4truth.net/fourtruthpbjesus.aspx?pageid=8589952893

"We will be examining the history and beliefs of the major religious movements of the world; but let me say at the outset, we will begin with the pre-supposition that everyone of them is a legitimate expression of the cultural, social, psychological, and existential experience of its adherents. Though they may differ in external and formal statements of doctrine and practice, they all express a similar essence of the awe and mystery in life and the universe. Furthermore, we will assume that each of the founders of the religions were all, in their various ways, expressing similar and universal moral and spiritual concepts. Thus, we will assume they are all equal in their authority and revelational validity."

conclusion Jesus Christ was and is superior to the founders of the other major religions of the world.


1. Jesus Christ is the only major world religion founder who had no beginning in time or space.
The Bible teaches that Jesus Christ, unlike any other person who has ever lived, had no beginning in time or space. That is, Jesus eternally preexisted as God the Son in the Godhead with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. Christians believe that , though
they are separate persons, they are One God (see Matt. 28:19-20; 1 Cor. 8:6, 12:4-6; 2 Cor. 1:21-22, 13:14; 1 Pet. 1:2).
The gospel of John states, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made" (John 1:1-3, NIV).
The apostle Paul, in Colossians 1:15-17 (NIV) stated, "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth . . . all things were created by him and for him."
Jesus Himself, when questioned as to His own origin, made the audacious claim, "before Abraham was born, I am" (John 8:58, NIV)!
The Bible teaches that Jesus existed eternally and had no chronological origin. No other religious leader can make such a claim. Gautama Buddha (560-480 B.C.), Mohammed (A.D. 570-632), Confucius (551-479 B.C.), and all other religious founders began their life at birth. Jesus already existed, as deity in heaven, prior to His earthly birth.

2. Jesus Christ is the only major world religion founder who came into the world as He did.
Though Jesus pre-existed eternally as God, the Bible indicates that He entered this world in a unique way. He was born into the world physically as a result of a virgin birth.
According to Matthew 1:20-21, (NIV), an angel of the Lord informed Joseph not to fear taking his pregnant betrothed, Mary, as his bride "because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins."
Matthew explained (1:22-23, NIV), "All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 'The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel - which means, God with us.'"
The gospel of Luke records that Mary herself was informed by the angel Gabriel that she would become pregnant and give birth to a son (see Luke 1:26-33). Luke says her response was incredulity, "How will this be . . . since I am a virgin" (Luke 1:34, NIV)?
The angel explained (Luke 1:35-37, NIV), "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of
God . . . For nothing is impossible with God."
Thus Jesus, among all the religious leaders, was conceived miraculously and born of a virgin. Even the great Hebrew prophet Moses had an earthly father.
Muhammad, founder of Islam, also was born of a man and woman and made no claims to divinity. Baha'u'llah (1817-1892), the supreme prophet of the Baha'i faith, was conceived and born in the ordinary way.

3. Jesus Christ is the only major world religion founder who lived a perfect and sinless life.
To be fair, Christians agree that many of the world's religions' founders taught high standards of morality and justice. For example, Buddha taught the Eightfold Path as a way to wisdom and morality. Baha'u'llah taught high principles of justice, world peace, and human rights. Moses, of course, provided the Ten Commandments and the Books of Law.
In none of these religions, nor in any other non-Christian faith, do the followers claim their founders to be perfect or without sin. Only Christians claim, as the Bible teaches, that Jesus Christ was totally without the stain of sin. The writer of Hebrews stated, "For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are, yet was without sin" (Heb. 4:15, NIV).
Likewise, the apostle Paul in commenting about the effectiveness of Christ's atonement stated, "God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God" (2 Cor. 5:21, NIV). Even Pontius Pilate, the Roman Governor who unjustly condemned Jesus to die, admitted, "As for me, I find no basis for a charge against him" (John 19:6, NIV).
Jesus Christ, of all the world's religious founders, was without sin and lived a perfect life. Thus, he alone was qualified to do what was necessary to make salvation available to mankind.

4. Jesus Christ is the only major world religion founder who died as a sacrificial atonement for the sins of humanity.
Muhammad taught that to receive forgiveness of sins, one needs to ask for it sincerely and, if Allah (the Islamic god) wills (and you can never be sure of that), he may grant it. Buddha taught that sins cannot really be "forgiven", only that the desires of this life must be overcome by enlightenment.
The Bible, however, teaches that the only way sins may be forgiven is for an atonement to be made to cover them. The Old Testament taught that a sacrificial system using animals could temporarily atone for some sins. The New Testament, however, teaches that the ultimate sacrifice for sin was made by Jesus Christ by His death on the cross. He died as a sacrificial atonement for the sins of the world.
As John 3:16, (NIV), states, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life."
Romans 8:3 (NIV) states, "For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering."
Only Jesus was qualified to be our sacrifice as He was without sin. Further, He gave Himself willingly to rescue us from our sinful lives and hell. Jesus said, "No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord" (John 10:18a NIV).

5. Jesus Christ is the only major world religion founder who rose from the dead to demonstrate His power and authority.
Ever wonder what would rank as the most important event in all of world history? Would it be the invention of the wheel, the rise of the Roman Empire, World War II, or the fall of Communism?
Clearly, the most important event of all time, and one of the best attested historically of ancient times, was the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. The Bible indicates that the third day after His crucifixion He rose from the dead and then, for 40 days afterward, was seen alive by a number of witnesses.
The apostle Paul reported to the Corinthians after Jesus' death "that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born" (1 Cor. 15:4-8, NIV).
Paul, along with the writers of the four Gospels and the other New Testament writers were absolutely convinced of the fact of Jesus' resurrection. Paul even states that if it were not true, then the Christian faith is false, "and if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead" (1 Cor. 15:14-15, NIV).
Indeed, Christianity stands or falls on the truth of Christ's resurrection. It is the one historical event that validates both the claims of Jesus about Himself and the message that Christians proclaim. No other religious leader validated his truth claims in such an undeniable way. Moses, as great a prophet as he was, is dead. Muhammad is dead. Buddha is dead. Confucius is dead. Baha'u'llah is dead. Any and all the founders of the world's religions are dead. Only Jesus Christ overcame death itself with this ultimate miracle, establishing once and for all the truth of His deity and Lordship.
Jesus, however, demonstrated His superiority to all others by His birth, life, death, and resurrection. Thus, no other person who has ever lived can and should capture our allegiance as does Jesus. He alone offers us the way of salvation and the assurance of eternal life. As the apostle Peter boldly stated so long ago, "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved" (Acts 4:12, NIV). Jesus Himself said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (John14:6, NIV).
When sharing Christ with those of other faiths, those who are agnostics or atheists, we must focus on why we believe Christianity is superior to all others - we must be cautious, however, not to belittle or demean other faiths or their leaders. That will usually only magnify the barrier that may already exist. Rather, examine common principles we share with other faiths, but, clearly show how Christ alone is the full expression of God's revelation in the world and the only way of salvation.
Christianity does not stand or fall on its moral principles or depth of mystical experience. If that were true, then it would be no better than any other religion in the world, and Jesus Christ would be only another great religious or moral teacher. No, Christianity stands or falls entirely on the person and work of one man: Jesus Christ. Either He was who He claimed to be, the Lord of the Universe, who came to earth as man, lived a sinless life, died on the cross as an atonement for our sins, and rose again from the dead, or the entire Christian faith is a gigantic lie.

I would like to also add the source reference for Christianity and the testimony of Jesus Christ is the bible.

It was not written by a single human author, it is the combined works of multiple human authors spanning 100's of years all testify to being divinely inspired by a singular source. God the creator of the heavens and the earth.
This is not so with the founders of other religions

Where as a founders of other religions are inspired singularly
 

aspen

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wow this is a lot easier than i thought would be when i first started reading her rant. the answer is love. christians are called to surrender selfishness for selfless service towards others. and based on her admission that sympathy is difficult for her, i would suggest that she surrender her false self to Jesus immediately, because sympathy is a long way from unconditional love and forgiveness and she has a lot of practicing before she be able to become fully human, as a perfect lover.
 

Arnie Manitoba

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bizhor .... Don't waste your time with endless arguing with folks like her .... you will never convince her of anything.

Nail her with an intelligent one-liner that will make her start to question herself and her future.

Such as ......

hey miss ..... it sounds like you want to put your future in the hands of Darwin and his finches .... good luck with that .

As for me ..... I decided to put my future in the hands of the Creator and his Son
 

Angelina

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Here’s a challenge for you: WITHOUT MENTIONING anything specific, up to and including God, Jesus, Heaven, Hell, devils, angels, Trinities, saints, sinners, Apostles, Commandments, Adam, Eve, or ANYTHING like that, tell me what at its core Christianity means to you, and why it, above all else, shows you how to be a good person. Give it to me in its abstract form. Because if it can't function without the trappings of mythology, I couldn't even begin to consider it worth my time.”
Every thing that has breath will some day face death. Death is inevitable...If one day, I heard the gospel message of salvation, believed it and began living the way the bible teaches us to live - ie: Love God, Love our neighbor, then one day I died and found out that there was no God...I have lost nothing but lived a satisfying life that not only benefited myself but also those around me. If however, I heard the gospel message of salvation and rejected that message and lived life my own way and did what I liked and then I died and found out that there is a God and the Gospel message was true....I'd be in a lot of trouble and there would be no way for me to save myself, since I rejected the only one who could save me....

1 Corinthians 1:18
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Blessings!!!
 

Selene

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bihzor said:
Here’s a challenge for you: WITHOUT MENTIONING anything specific, up to and including God, Jesus, Heaven, Hell, devils, angels, Trinities, saints, sinners, Apostles, Commandments, Adam, Eve, or ANYTHING like that, tell me what at its core Christianity means to you, and why it, above all else, shows you how to be a good person. Give it to me in its abstract form. Because if it can't function without the trappings of mythology, I couldn't even begin to consider it worth my time.”
It seems to me that this person has already made up his/her mind about God. I would just pray for this person. I would not need to convince him/her of my beliefs. In the end, he/she will find out the truth.