Who created evil and death?

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CarlosB

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Knowing that God created all things, so also created evil, right?

But some say that God is love and therefore can not have created evil, is it?

So how do we Understand this passage?

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these {things}.
Isaías 45:7
 

horsecamp

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God is the maker of all and he makes even evil serve his good purposes.

why did you choose that translation most translations use the word disaster but evil

would be any thing that could cause us harm in some way. and God uses that for his good purposes
some people need a disaster in life to wake them up. God purpose is to get people into heaven
through faith in Jesus there only savior from sin.. God puts Christian in disasters to so they can witness his great love for people.. Abraham would have killed His son Because he knew God could easly bring him back to life Abraham wasn't afraid of death with God who makes the dead alive death has no sting,

look at the times God used evil Satan to teach his good purposes to people ,
 

Dan57

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CarlosB said:
Knowing that God created all things, so also created evil, right?

But some say that God is love and therefore can not have created evil, is it?

So how do we Understand this passage?

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these {things}.
Isaías 45:7
Evil in that verse is the Hebrew 'ra', which the Strong's concordance defines as "adversity, affliction, bad, calamity".
So God creates calamity in the sense that God created tornado's, hurricanes, tsunami's, etc.
 
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Raeneske

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I wouldn't say God created evil. I would simply say that for the time being, He PERMITS evil to exist. He created everything holy, and good. But He also gave that perfect and good being, free will. By giving us free will, we have been given the choice to continue on with God, or without God. We all know (we should) that the originator of sin is actually Satan. He was the first being to misuse that which is good (his leadership, brains, and even free will), and use it himself for evil.

So as my first statement was: God didn't create evil. God simply permitted it. And God will also end it. (Nahum 1:9).
 

FHII

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Yep, God created evil. Not only that he sometimes sends evil and does evil. Not only "tornadoes" but actually sends evil spirits to infest people.... Saul for example. Furthermore to say God merely permits evil to happen is not giving God the credit for creating ALL things.

Look at the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Who planted it and who created it?
 

CarlosB

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horsecamp said:
God is the maker of all and he makes even evil serve his good purposes.

why did you choose that translation most translations use the word disaster but evil

would be any thing that could cause us harm in some way. and God uses that for his good purposes
some people need a disaster in life to wake them up. God purpose is to get people into heaven
through faith in Jesus there only savior from sin.. God puts Christian in disasters to so they can witness his great love for people.. Abraham would have killed His son Because he knew God could easly bring him back to life Abraham wasn't afraid of death with God who makes the dead alive death has no sting,

look at the times God used evil Satan to teach his good purposes to people ,


The word disaster, gives an idea of something that happened by accident, it was not done on purpose, but that was a result of something, but God create evil, is he who is the Author and Finisher, because nothing happens under heaven that does not is the will of God, that is why it is called the sole ruler.
 

afaithfulone4u

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Here is the error of man's thinking, they fail to realize that when men do evil, They must be judged by God for their choice of doing evil. And God is the one who sends the tormentors to handle the job. When Christ returns, he is no longer going to be pacifying those who have heard the good news of how to be changed from a sinful way of life, but rejected it. God is the same yesterday today and forever for His Word never changes. The love of God is His Word and His Word when applied to our life changes us for the good so that we learn how to do what is right in the sight of God so that He will not have to send an evil spirit to torment, or the sword to our land for war. The LORD gives and the LORD takes away, He Created all things and He also wrote the Book telling the END from THE BEGINNING. He says He lays before us life or death..... and pleads with us to CHOOSE LIFE by following Christ who is the Word of life.
Lev 26:25
25 And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall avenge the quarrel of my covenant: and when ye are gathered together within your cities, I will send the pestilence among you; and ye shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.
KJV

1 Kings 14:10
10 Therefore, behold, I will bring evil upon the house of Jeroboam, and will cut off from Jeroboam him that pisseth against the wall, and him that is shut up and left in Israel, and will take away the remnant of the house of Jeroboam, as a man taketh away dung, till it be all gone.
KJV
1 Kings 21:22
21 Behold, I will bring evil upon thee, and will take away thy posterity, and will cut off from Ahab him that pisseth against the wall, and him that is shut up and left in Israel,
KJV
2 Kings 22:16
16 Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof, even all the words of the book which the king of Judah hath read:
KJV
Gen 3:5
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
KJV
Gen 3:22
22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
KJV
 

CarlosB

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Dan57 said:
Evil in that verse is the Hebrew 'ra', which the Strong's concordance defines as "adversity, affliction, bad, calamity".
So God creates calamity in the sense that God created tornado's, hurricanes, tsunami's, etc.
What is written in Hebrew language is also written and translated into other languages​​, translators are not fools; besides I always have a hand there.

No friend, God creates everything and makes all in all, he is the one who kills and gives life, he who is hurt and who cure, he is who and who enriches empobrtece, because nothing depends on what the man wants (free will) or do (works), but God does whatever with whoever.

The Bible is full of examples, but I can give some thought was not necessary:

See now that I, {even} I, {am} he, and {there is} no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither {is there any} that can deliver out of my hand.
Deuteronómio 32:39


Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
Oseias 6:1

The LORD killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up.
The LORD maketh poor, and maketh rich: he bringeth low, and lifteth up.

1ªSamuel 2:6-7


He did everything including the devil, sin, the curse, hell and ordered that every man die, because everything is him and for him.
 

afaithfulone4u

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Our fight on this earth is over our own flesh man who holds us back from the Peace of Jerusalem in our life. Our mission is also to bring the good news to others ears so that out of love for them they will have a chance to be reborn by the Spirit and overcome their fleshly lusts that keep them doing good & EVIL... to only GOOD. We must mix the Word of God with faith so that we can enter into the REST of God... meaning that our only troubles will be from another who hates us because of the Word we so lovingly try to feed them for their souls good.. but God makes our living more and more peaceful and pleasant as we grow in the Word to have integrity, good character and honor God.
 

CarlosB

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Raeneske said:
I wouldn't say God created evil. I would simply say that for the time being, He PERMITS evil to exist. He created everything holy, and good. But He also gave that perfect and good being, free will. By giving us free will, we have been given the choice to continue on with God, or without God. We all know (we should) that the originator of sin is actually Satan. He was the first being to misuse that which is good (his leadership, brains, and even free will), and use it himself for evil.

So as my first statement was: God didn't create evil. God simply permitted it. And God will also end it. (Nahum 1:9).


This is the eternal problem of Christian, when God says one thing and man contradicts.

The Bible says not allowed, but they created, because they had not created did not exist, because there is nothing that God did not create.

Although you say that God did not create evil, God says and adds create evil: I the Lord have done all these things!

The free will does not exist is the root of all deception, but that we can talk about another topic.
FHII said:
Yep, God created evil. Not only that he sometimes sends evil and does evil. Not only "tornadoes" but actually sends evil spirits to infest people.... Saul for example. Furthermore to say God merely permits evil to happen is not giving God the credit for creating ALL things.

Look at the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Who planted it and who created it?

Truth!

And who the devil put it there next to the tree to bring down Adam when he had no knowledge of good and evil? Did not even know he was naked, how could pick anything unless transgress?
afaithfulone4u said:
Here is the error of man's thinking, they fail to realize that when men do evil, They must be judged by God for their choice of doing evil. And God is the one who sends the tormentors to handle the job. When Christ returns, he is no longer going to be pacifying those who have heard the good news of how to be changed from a sinful way of life, but rejected it. God is the same yesterday today and forever for His Word never changes. The love of God is His Word and His Word when applied to our life changes us for the good so that we learn how to do what is right in the sight of God so that He will not have to send an evil spirit to torment, or the sword to our land for war. The LORD gives and the LORD takes away, He Created all things and He also wrote the Book telling the END from THE BEGINNING. He says He lays before us life or death..... and pleads with us to CHOOSE LIFE by following Christ who is the Word of life.
Lev 26:25
25 And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall avenge the quarrel of my covenant: and when ye are gathered together within your cities, I will send the pestilence among you; and ye shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.
KJV

1 Kings 14:10
10 Therefore, behold, I will bring evil upon the house of Jeroboam, and will cut off from Jeroboam him that pisseth against the wall, and him that is shut up and left in Israel, and will take away the remnant of the house of Jeroboam, as a man taketh away dung, till it be all gone.
KJV
1 Kings 21:22
21 Behold, I will bring evil upon thee, and will take away thy posterity, and will cut off from Ahab him that pisseth against the wall, and him that is shut up and left in Israel,
KJV
2 Kings 22:16
16 Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof, even all the words of the book which the king of Judah hath read:
KJV
Gen 3:5
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
KJV
Gen 3:22
22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
KJV


And how many have achieved good and life by your choice?
 

aspen

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Evil is the absence of Good. It is not a force. If God created evil, did He also create cold?
 

FHII

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I can sit in a chair and not do anything good.... Does that mean I'm doing something evil? There's an absense of good, but am I doing something evil? Of course not.

There was the child in Isa 7 who doesn't know to choose good or refuse evil. Doesn't really make much sense that he didn't know how to choose good and refuse the absense of good.

People also say that darkness is the absense of light.... But God also said he made darkness, just like he said he created evil. And by the way, yep.... I would think God created all temperatures!

Never bought that arguement that evil wasn't a "thing", "force" or anything else like that...
 

aspen

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FHII said:
I can sit in a chair and not do anything good.... Does that mean I'm doing something evil? There's an absense of good, but am I doing something evil? Of course not.

There was the child in Isa 7 who doesn't know to choose good or refuse evil. Doesn't really make much sense that he didn't know how to choose good and refuse the absense of good.

People also say that darkness is the absense of light.... But God also said he made darkness, just like he said he created evil. And by the way, yep.... I would think God created all temperatures!

Never bought that arguement that evil wasn't a "thing", "force" or anything else like that...
Sitting in a chair is doing something good - your body is operating as it should - you are breathing and producing neurotransmitters and thinking. You are also prone to being selfish while you are sitting, perhaps you could be helping you neighbor or worshiping God.

Yes, Moses thought that darkness was a force rather than a lack of light, but he was wrong. We now know better.

Also, Good cannot create Evil without being culpable in the havoc the evil causes.
 

Dan57

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CarlosB said:
He did everything including the devil, sin, the curse, hell and ordered that every man die, because everything is him and for him.

Show me a bible verse that says God created sin? He did not create sin, there's a big difference between sin and evil. God created evil in the form of hardship, calamity, suffering, etc., but all of those evil things are ramifications of sin.

Originally, everything God created was good, but when A&E sinned, they were expelled from the garden and many forms of evil fell upon mankind. The reason was 'sin', that's the one thing God did not create.

If we didn't have free-will, sin would not exist. Sin is not of God, He hates sin and made it clear that the wages of sin is death. Evil is the result of sin, which is why neither will exist in heaven. If all righteousness resides in God, then sin cannot be of God. JMO
 

CarlosB

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aspen2 said:
Evil is the absence of Good. It is not a force. If God created evil, did He also create cold?

In addition to directly deny the scripture says that God created evil still ignores? I thought their faith was on the deed.

If evil is the absence of good, so good is the absence of evil and there is nothing and nothing is true.

The sufferings of the prophets were the absence of good or suffered by them were exactly the Spirit of Christ? The sufferings of Christ were an illusion, it was the absence of good? Friend, these are theories of men.

I can not do good to someone without making it worse, is just as it was, but if I give lher punched certainly will hurt you, and it is real and not the absence of good.

Eve sinned because evil was present outside and inside (so coveted) even before sin.

Then all the evil that exists is the absence of good, if not as a force can destroy something that does not exist? The devil, sin, curse and death is an illusion?

Jesus came to die and shed their blood for something that is not real? If evil is the absence of good to say that the reason for his suffering is because they do not have Christ? Those who belong to Christ have no suffering, or is it just the opposite?

FHII said:
I can sit in a chair and not do anything good.... Does that mean I'm doing something evil? There's an absense of good, but am I doing something evil? Of course not.

There was the child in Isa 7 who doesn't know to choose good or refuse evil. Doesn't really make much sense that he didn't know how to choose good and refuse the absense of good.

People also say that darkness is the absense of light.... But God also said he made darkness, just like he said he created evil. And by the way, yep.... I would think God created all temperatures!

Never bought that arguement that evil wasn't a "thing", "force" or anything else like that...


Certo, FHII
aspen2 said:
Sitting in a chair is doing something good - your body is operating as it should - you are breathing and producing neurotransmitters and thinking. You are also prone to being selfish while you are sitting, perhaps you could be helping you neighbor or worshiping God.

Yes, Moses thought that darkness was a force rather than a lack of light, but he was wrong. We now know better.

Also, Good cannot create Evil without being culpable in the havoc the evil causes.

Friend because stubbornly contradict the scriptures to defend the error when the Bible is full of evidence that God is who created evil?

There goes another one:

Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? Shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done {it}? {be afraid: or, run together?} {the LORD ...: or, Shall not the LORD's somewhat?}
Amos 3:6

Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?
Lamentations 3:38

Let the most outrageous things, because God's people kill women and children? see:

Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that They have, and spare Them not, but slay Both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
1 Samuel 15:3

This is the absence of good or commandment is precisely the well?

God is the cause and the end of everything, so he is the Lord.
Dan57 said:
Show me a bible verse that says God created sin? He did not create sin, there's a big difference between sin and evil. God created evil in the form of hardship, calamity, suffering, etc., but all of those evil things are ramifications of sin.

Originally, everything God created was good, but when A&E sinned, they were expelled from the garden and many forms of evil fell upon mankind. The reason was 'sin', that's the one thing God did not create.

If we didn't have free-will, sin would not exist. Sin is not of God, He hates sin and made it clear that the wages of sin is death. Evil is the result of sin, which is why neither will exist in heaven. If all righteousness resides in God, then sin cannot be of God. JMO

Suffice it to say that God created everything and you do not believe that sin is not part of creation?

When God made ​​the world was not there the darkness, the devil and the deep: and the father of sin? It was they who created alone?

Of course it was God who created sin, and that by the law: for if God had not given a law and a conviction (not eat ... die), there would never sin.

Because the law worketh wrath: for where the law is, {there is} in the transgression.
Romans 4:15

So is the law itself that generates sin because of our transgression, but there's no law, neither is there sin in fact the law is the life and power of sin, so Jesus nailed to the cross and freed us from the law of sin.

The sting of death is {} sin, and the strength of sin {is} the law.
1 Corinthians 15:56

But the question is very simple, just the fact that they do not believe in what is written to give way to the reasonings free will, only reveals a lack of faith, and it is rather dangerous.

Who defends the free will have faith in yourself, in your choices, not God, he did.

Are relying on their flesh!
 

aspen

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Yeah Carlos, you are condemning Augustine's understanding of Good and evil, not mine. I didn't make this stuff up. Stating that evil is a lesser form of Good is not denying evil or the effects of evil - it is stating the truth - that God created a Good creation that humanity broke
 

veteran

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CarlosB said:
Knowing that God created all things, so also created evil, right?

But some say that God is love and therefore can not have created evil, is it?

So how do we Understand this passage?

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these {things}.
Isaías 45:7
You have to understand more of God's Word to properly interpret that Isaiah 45:7 Scripture.

The reason most brethren don't interpret it properly is because they have yet to understand about this present world time as a 2nd world or earth age. You have to understand this first.


In 2 Peter 3, he covered the idea of 3 distinct earth ages of time, the final one being the future new heavens and a new earth.

1st earth age - prior to Gen.1:2 ("the world that then was")
2nd earth age - from Gen.1:2 to present day ("the heavens and the earth, which are now")
3rd earth age - after God's Great White Throne Judgment ("new heavens and a new earth")


In the 1st earth age, that was when the cherub Satan was perfect in his ways (Ezek.28) following God, guarding the Mercy Seat of God's Throne. Then Satan rebelled against God with coveting that very Throne. That is officially when evil began, like Apostle John said the devil "sinneth from the beginning" in 1 John 3:8. So God destroyed that time of old when Satan rebelled and drew one third of the angels into rebellion with him (Rev.12:3-4). Per the Rev.12:3 verse, that "great red dragon" had established a beast kingdom that had seven heads, seven crowns, and ten horns. The Rev.12:3 number of crowns is different than the one in Rev.13 that will have ten crowns, and the Rev.12:3 one is given in association with the third of angels ("stars") being drawn in rebellion with Satan in that time of old.

So prior to Satan's rebellion, there was NO sin. The devil himself did the very first sin, like 1 John 3:8 shows. And Apostle John defined sin as the transgression of the law also in that 1 John 3 chapter. That is officially when evil began, with Satan's rebellion of old.


In the Book of Isaiah, God also uses the name of the flesh king of Assyria as a symbolic title for Satan (like Isaiah 10, Isaiah 30:31-33, also in Ezek.31). God shows He is using Satan for this present earth age as His punishing rod upon those who rebel against Him, like a whipping switch. That idea is the hinge-point of understanding the Isaiah 45:7 verse about God creating evil...

The idea is NOT... that evil originated from God, but that for this 2nd earth age, God USES... the devil who is the originator of evil, because the devil sinned from the beginning by rebellion against God. Thus even when God imparts a judgment, like the one in Egypt where He caused a darkness upon the land that could be felt (Exodus 10:21), that was for this 2nd earth age. ALL His judgments upon the rebellious of this world are for this 2nd earth age which extends all the way past Christ's future "thousand years" reign to the final Judgment.

The only judgments God did back in the 1st earth age when the devil rebelled was His judgment and sentencing of the devil and his angels into the future "lake of fire". No one else, even to this present time, has already been judged and sentenced to perish in the future "lake of fire".

This is why by the time of the 3rd earth age (God's Eternity of the new heavens and a new earth), the concept of evil will no longer exist. It will be destroyed in the "lake of fire" along with Satan and the wicked who will still choose to follow the devil.

So when we see God passing out judgments for today, or since the time right after Satan's rebellion, it was all... because of Satan's original rebellion against Him, and God uses the devil and his as the whipping stick. Just like a parent who breaks off a whipping switch to discipline a child, that switch is cast into the fire when it's no longer needed. Likewise with Satan and his. That is especially God's Message in Isaiah 10 about "the Assyrian" when He is speaking symbolically about Satan as the "rod of Mine anger".
 

Rex

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veteran said:
You have to understand more of God's Word to properly interpret that Isaiah 45:7 Scripture.

The reason most brethren don't interpret it properly is because they have yet to understand about this present world time as a 2nd world or earth age. You have to understand this first.


In 2 Peter 3, he covered the idea of 3 distinct earth ages of time, the final one being the future new heavens and a new earth.

1st earth age - prior to Gen.1:2 ("the world that then was")
2nd earth age - from Gen.1:2 to present day ("the heavens and the earth, which are now")
3rd earth age - after God's Great White Throne Judgment ("new heavens and a new earth")


In the 1st earth age, that was when the cherub Satan was perfect in his ways (Ezek.28) following God, guarding the Mercy Seat of God's Throne. Then Satan rebelled against God with coveting that very Throne. That is officially when evil began, like Apostle John said the devil "sinneth from the beginning" in 1 John 3:8. So God destroyed that time of old when Satan rebelled and drew one third of the angels into rebellion with him (Rev.12:3-4). Per the Rev.12:3 verse, that "great red dragon" had established a beast kingdom that had seven heads, seven crowns, and ten horns. The Rev.12:3 number of crowns is different than the one in Rev.13 that will have ten crowns, and the Rev.12:3 one is given in association with the third of angels ("stars") being drawn in rebellion with Satan in that time of old.

So prior to Satan's rebellion, there was NO sin. The devil himself did the very first sin, like 1 John 3:8 shows. And Apostle John defined sin as the transgression of the law also in that 1 John 3 chapter. That is officially when evil began, with Satan's rebellion of old.


In the Book of Isaiah, God also uses the name of the flesh king of Assyria as a symbolic title for Satan (like Isaiah 10, Isaiah 30:31-33, also in Ezek.31). God shows He is using Satan for this present earth age as His punishing rod upon those who rebel against Him, like a whipping switch. That idea is the hinge-point of understanding the Isaiah 45:7 verse about God creating evil...

The idea is NOT... that evil originated from God, but that for this 2nd earth age, God USES... the devil who is the originator of evil, because the devil sinned from the beginning by rebellion against God. Thus even when God imparts a judgment, like the one in Egypt where He caused a darkness upon the land that could be felt (Exodus 10:21), that was for this 2nd earth age. ALL His judgments upon the rebellious of this world are for this 2nd earth age which extends all the way past Christ's future "thousand years" reign to the final Judgment.

The only judgments God did back in the 1st earth age when the devil rebelled was His judgment and sentencing of the devil and his angels into the future "lake of fire". No one else, even to this present time, has already been judged and sentenced to perish in the future "lake of fire".

This is why by the time of the 3rd earth age (God's Eternity of the new heavens and a new earth), the concept of evil will no longer exist. It will be destroyed in the "lake of fire" along with Satan and the wicked who will still choose to follow the devil.

So when we see God passing out judgments for today, or since the time right after Satan's rebellion, it was all... because of Satan's original rebellion against Him, and God uses the devil and his as the whipping stick. Just like a parent who breaks off a whipping switch to discipline a child, that switch is cast into the fire when it's no longer needed. Likewise with Satan and his. That is especially God's Message in Isaiah 10 about "the Assyrian" when He is speaking symbolically about Satan as the "rod of Mine anger".
Three ages, http://www.biblestudysite.com/1stage.htm

Then what Satan having sex with Eve http://www.biblestudysite.com/realsin.htm
Then how Gen 1:27 proves people were created before A&E http://biblestudysite.com/creation.htm

The three seem to all have a common following. I find them on the same site you PM'ed me when I first came here.
 

veteran

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Rex said:
Three ages, http://www.biblestudysite.com/1stage.htm

Then what Satan having sex with Eve http://www.biblestudysite.com/realsin.htm
Then how Gen 1:27 proves people were created before A&E http://biblestudysite.com/creation.htm

The three seem to all have a common following. I find them on the same site you PM'ed me when I first came here.
I don't recall PM'ing you anything.

But if you think you can refute what God said in those Scriptures I quoted, you can try. Then you might... actually be on topic.
 

Rex

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veteran said:
I don't recall PM'ing you anything.

But if you think you can refute what God said in those Scriptures I quoted, you can try. Then you might... actually be on topic.
Disputing what is in your head is impossible but If you see all of that "between verse" who can surly argue with that. To believe you have proved such a case is is a matter of opinion, and unsubstantiated facts about a 1st earth age is simply an over active imagination.

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
(Insert comic book here)
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.