What was Job's sin?

CarlosB · Jul 13, 2013

What was Job's sin that caused God to kill his servants, his ten children, their cattle, farm and destroy their own health?

But it was not God who witnessed the innocence of Job, unlike what many say and want to point blame on Job will likeness of your friends?

And the LORD said to Satan, Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him, blameless and upright man, who fears God and shuns evil, and still retains its sincerity, there you incited me against him, to him without cause.
Job 2:3

And if there was no question, because it has all this happened? And if there is free will because the children who died of old God protected?

.Others may argue saying it was not God but the devil:

No, it was just God and not the devil, because God was guarding him, he was surrounded and protected from all sides and to hell you had to ask permission to play God, therefore God without any harm would have reached.

Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all que They had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and They bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil que the LORD expresso had upon him: every man Also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.
Job 42:11

aspen · Jul 13, 2013

Job did not sin - the point of the story is that bad things happen to good people just like bad people and God is sovereign

Arnie Manitoba · Jul 13, 2013

Carlos ..... I think we are missing the whole point.

God said to Satan to observe Job who was blameless and upright.

But paraphrasing Satan .... He as much said that Job was blameless and upright because of all the good things he had ...... cattle .... wealth .... family .... good health etc etc.

Satan asked God to let Him remove all those good things and make Job's life miserable to prove it

God allowed Satan to bring all kinds of harm upon Job ..... and guess what ..... Job still did not curse and blame God

The whole exercise was to prove Satan was wrong about Job ..... Job had a proper heart toward God and his material possessions were not the reason for it.

Best wishes

JB_Reformed Baptist · Jul 13, 2013

aspen2 said:
Job did not sin - the point of the story is that bad things happen to good people just like bad people and God is sovereign

Well Aspen2, you're almost right.

1. God is actively Sovereign in the governance of his world and has particular eye on his children. 2. You're correct in saying Job was not being punished for his sins. 3. You're are not correct in that he did have the residual sin of self-righteousness to which God utilized the situation to clean him up. 4. A clearer picture of his finiteness and God's infiniteness became apparent.

Pelaides · Jul 13, 2013

Job was perfect just like Jesus,but unfortunately individuals like these attract the attention of satan.

AndyBern · Jul 13, 2013

While Job was a type of Christ, he wasn't absolutely perfect like Jesus. He admitted he was 'unclean' like all men (Job 14:4).

The three friends were entirely wrong about Job, and in the end, God said they spoke wrong about Himself (Job 42:7). Because of this, I think it may be dangerous to rely on the things they said about God, even though much of what they said was true in general.

The fourth friend, Elihu, was closer to the truth. He didn't say the bad things happened because of Job's sin, but he did say it was wrong for Job to justify himself above God (Job 32:2). If Job had any sin, then this was it: his wanting to call God to account for His actions against him (Job 13:3, 23:1-5). God didn't condemn Elihu like the other friends. (Elihu's portion of the book appears almost superfluous, as he is not mentioned in the book outside of his speech.)

However, God never accused Job of outright sin in chapters 38 to 41. The three friends needed a sacrifice and intercession for their sins, but Job didn't. God even said Job spoke rightly about Him, and called him righteous (Job 42:7-8), otherwise Job would not have been able to offer the sacrifice for his friends.

Job as a type of Christ:

both were called righteous (Job as much as a man could be, and Jesus truly) (Job 1:1, 1 John 2:1)
both were commended of God (Job 1:8, Matthew 3:17),
both ministered to the poor, handicapped, widows, etc (Job 4:3-4, 29:14, 16-17, 30:25, Matthew 11:4-5),
both were made a special focus of Satan's attacks (Job 2:7, Matthew 4:1-11),
both were falsely accused (Job 11:5-6, 15:5, Matthew 26:59-61). Compare Job 15:6 with Matthew 26:65.
Isaiah 53:4b is also a perfect description of how Job's friends saw him: "...yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted",
both asked God why He had forsaken him (Job 13:24, Matthew 27:46, also Psalm 22:1-2, 6ff),
both suffered for righteousness sake,
both made intercession for their accusers (Job 42:10, Luke 23:34),
both made/make continual intercession for their family (i.e. Job for his family, Jesus for us) (Job 1:5, Hebrews 7:25).
both of their families were/are blessed because of their righteousness (Job 42:12-17, Ephesians 1:3).

...and I'm sure there are more. So, to ask how Job sinned to cause him to suffer is a little like asking what sin Jesus did that God should forsake him (...although Job did not suffer vicariously).

dtjsoft.com/the-character-of-job/
dtjsoft.com/fear-god-for-nothing/

CarlosB · Jul 14, 2013

aspen2 said:
Job did not sin - the point of the story is that bad things happen to good people just like bad people and God is sovereign

Now is sovereign? So evil is not because of the evil deeds of our bad choices? So now deny the free will?

There were no events, it was God who so wanted.

Job sinned yes, and so the question remains: what was Job's sin

Arnie Manitoba said:
Carlos ..... I think we are missing the whole point.

God said to Satan to observe Job who was blameless and upright.

But paraphrasing Satan .... He as much said that Job was blameless and upright because of all the good things he had ...... cattle .... wealth .... family .... good health etc etc.

Satan asked God to let Him remove all those good things and make Job's life miserable to prove it

God allowed Satan to bring all kinds of harm upon Job ..... and guess what ..... Job still did not curse and blame God

The whole exercise was to prove Satan was wrong about Job ..... Job had a proper heart toward God and his material possessions were not the reason for it.

Best wishes

No friend, God says that there was no cause for him to have been consumed as it was.

And everything that the devil said about Job that he would do was actually to the point of Job said that God was unjust and that his righteousness was greater than God.

Moreover Elihu spake, and said,
Thinkest thou this to be right, {that} thou saidst, My righteousness {} is more than God's?
Job 35:1-2

Job was missing and committed sin that was always hidden that not even he knew, because there was a plot or carnal sin, so the question remains: what was Job's sin to be punished like that?

Pelaides said:
Job was perfect just like Jesus,but unfortunately individuals like these attract the attention of satan.

Friend, Jo was never perfect like Christ, so Christ need not have come to die for us, served Job You're comparing the filth with God.

Friend, never comes from Satan, but God, because he was guarding him and it was he who opened the doors to destroy all things of Job, and not attracting anything.

Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all que They had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and They bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil que the LORD expresso had upon him: every man Also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.
Job 42:11

It was God who sent evil and not because of any sin or Satan's power and choice

AndyBern said:
While Job was a type of Christ, he wasn't absolutely perfect like Jesus. He admitted he was 'unclean' like all men (Job 14:4).

The three friends were entirely wrong about Job, and in the end, God said they spoke wrong about Himself (Job 42:7). Because of this, I think it may be dangerous to rely on the things they said about God, even though much of what they said was true in general.

The fourth friend, Elihu, was closer to the truth. He didn't say the bad things happened because of Job's sin, but he did say it was wrong for Job to justify himself above God (Job 32:2). If Job had any sin, then this was it: his wanting to call God to account for His actions against him (Job 13:3, 23:1-5). God didn't condemn Elihu like the other friends. (Elihu's portion of the book appears almost superfluous, as he is not mentioned in the book outside of his speech.)

However, God never accused Job of outright sin in chapters 38 to 41. The three friends needed a sacrifice and intercession for their sins, but Job didn't. God even said Job spoke rightly about Him, and called him righteous (Job 42:7-8), otherwise Job would not have been able to offer the sacrifice for his friends.

Job as a type of Christ:

both were called righteous (Job as much as a man could be, and Jesus truly) (Job 1:1, 1 John 2:1)

both were commended of God (Job 1:8, Matthew 3:17),

both ministered to the poor, handicapped, widows, etc (Job 4:3-4, 29:14, 16-17, 30:25, Matthew 11:4-5),

both were made a special focus of Satan's attacks (Job 2:7, Matthew 4:1-11),

both were falsely accused (Job 11:5-6, 15:5, Matthew 26:59-61). Compare Job 15:6 with Matthew 26:65.

Isaiah 53:4b is also a perfect description of how Job's friends saw him: "...yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted",

both asked God why He had forsaken him (Job 13:24, Matthew 27:46, also Psalm 22:1-2, 6ff),

both suffered for righteousness sake,

both made intercession for their accusers (Job 42:10, Luke 23:34),

both made/make continual intercession for their family (i.e. Job for his family, Jesus for us) (Job 1:5, Hebrews 7:25).

both of their families were/are blessed because of their righteousness (Job 42:12-17, Ephesians 1:3).

...and I'm sure there are more. So, to ask how Job sinned to cause him to suffer is a little like asking what sin Jesus did that God should forsake him (...although Job did not suffer vicariously).

dtjsoft.com/the-character-of-job/
dtjsoft.com/fear-god-for-nothing/

One explanation that has nothing to do with the answer, but anyway, so you lose the purpose of the question.

No matter what others say or jewelry, but what God says, and he said there was no cause for Job to have been consumed, in fact he had never committed any sin, then all this reasoning does not make sense to respond to the question.

God does not sin, and Job sinned a sin detected only by God that Job himself unaware, so apergunta remains: what was Job's sin?

Or that misfortune did not have a purpose? Or was it pure joy of God in torment him?

Pelaides · Jul 14, 2013

When you read J0b1:8 this is what God has to say about job "And the Lord said unto satan,hast thou considered my servant job,there is none like him in the earth,a perfect and upright man,one that feareth God ,and escheweth evil".

Now for anyone to say Job was not perfect,is the same as calling God a liar.Or you believe the book of job to be a work of fiction.

aspen · Jul 14, 2013

Carlos - you are stuck in a thinking error. You seem to believe that free will is limited to choosing between good and evil. Free will was given to us so that we could make choices in a Good universe - so that we could choose between good choices. Suggesting that we have to know evil to know good or appreciate good is a lie. It would mean that we would have to know satan to know God - blasphemy in the first order.

BTW, claiming that God, who is the ultimate Good and that Satan and evil are the lesser form of Good doesn't mean that you must turn around the reasoning and insist that God would therefore have to be a lesser form of evil - this flawed reasoning is absurd. Heat is not a lesser form of cold.

You might want to go a read up on Augustine.

veteran · Jul 14, 2013

CarlosB said:
What was Job's sin that caused God to kill his servants, his ten children, their cattle, farm and destroy their own health?

But it was not God who witnessed the innocence of Job, unlike what many say and want to point blame on Job will likeness of your friends?

And if there was no question, because it has all this happened? And if there is free will because the children who died of old God protected?

.Others may argue saying it was not God but the devil:

No, it was just God and not the devil, because God was guarding him, he was surrounded and protected from all sides and to hell you had to ask permission to play God, therefore God without any harm would have reached.

Job's sin was in his attempted self view of sinlessness...

Starting in Job 38, God asks Job if he did all the things God did in establishing His creation, and if he knew what only God can know...

Job 38:3-5
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou Me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
(KJV)
Job 38:17-21
17 Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?
18 Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.
19 Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof,
20 That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof?
21 Knowest thou it, because thou wast then born? or because the number of thy days is great?
(KJV)

The following is where God reveals to Job that it's impossible for him to claim self-righteousness to the level he was guilty of...mainly because it put him on an equal footing with God...

Job 40:1-8
1 Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said,
2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct Him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.
3 Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
4 Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer Thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.
5 Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice; but I will proceed no further.
6 Then answered the LORD unto Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
7 Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto Me.
8 Wilt thou also disannul My judgment? wilt thou condemn Me, that thou mayest be righteous?
(KJV)

We are but God's creatures. Even when we have done well in following God, we still are not God and cannot ever come close to His Perfect Righteousness. Only through Christ Jesus's Blood shed upon the cross are we 'accounted' righteous, and that not of ourselves.

So even though Job did nothing to cause Satan's trials upon him which God allowed, he still could not claim total innocence as one of God's creations.

This may be difficult for some to understand, but how God had blessed Job and bragged on him to Satan, and then returned to Job a double-portion after his trials, reveals Job was one of God's elect servants. God well knew... Job would not curse Him, and knew Satan would lose the bet. Yet Job went too far in complaining to God about his innocence and why He had allowed such trials.

Apostle Paul serves as a type of parallel to Job's trials when Paul asked our Lord Jesus to remove the thorn He had placed in his side, and Jesus told Paul His Grace was enough (2 Cor.12). Apostle Paul suffered many trials and tribulations, and he gloried in them, which is the direct opposite of how Job handled his trials by complaining of his innocence and feeling sorry for himself.

2 Cor 12:5-10
5 Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.
6 For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me.
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
9 And He said unto me, "My grace is sufficient for thee: for My strength is made perfect in weakness." Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.
(KJV)

Did Job have that "when I am weak, then am I strong" attitude that Apostle Paul had with his many tribulations? No, and we should note that difference.

Likewise for us then, when we experience trials and tribulations of this world, and start asking ourselves why The LORD is allowing it, we should be careful about it like Apostle Paul was, for Christ's Grace is sufficient. If you're one of His elect, then you should expect to be a special target of Satan for this time.

CarlosB · Jul 16, 2013

VitorA

Would that thou knowest what was Job's sin?

Arnie Manitoba · Jul 16, 2013

CarlosB ..... maybe it is a language thing .... but it is hard to know what your point is.

You asked a question .... we gave our answers .... and then you tell us our answers are wrong.

aspen · Jul 16, 2013

BTW, since when does God punish us by killing our family?

afaithfulone4u · Jul 16, 2013

CarlosB said:
What was Job's sin that caused God to kill his servants, his ten children, their cattle, farm and destroy their own health?

But it was not God who witnessed the innocence of Job, unlike what many say and want to point blame on Job will likeness of your friends?

And if there was no question, because it has all this happened? And if there is free will because the children who died of old God protected?

.Others may argue saying it was not God but the devil:

No, it was just God and not the devil, because God was guarding him, he was surrounded and protected from all sides and to hell you had to ask permission to play God, therefore God without any harm would have reached.

There were two things that I see where Job sinned and they both pertained to his children.
One was he lived in fear of his children sinning against God and God's people were not supposed to have a spirit to fear For the thing we fear shall come upon us.
The other sin was that Job did not teach his children to SIN NOT against the LORD, he just tried to cover their sinful lifestyles up so that they hopefully would not reach God's ears when he should have been teaching them to FEAR the LORD for it is the beginning of wisdom.
We must take a lesson for our children for carnal man can not inherit the kingdom of God nor is the flesh saved without the Christ indwelling them to teach them how not to sin against God for their souls good!

Prov 29:25 The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the LORD shall be safe.
KJV
Job 3:25
25 For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.
KJV
Job 1:4-5
4 And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.
5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.
KJV

Excuse me, I missed one and it pertained to Job being SELF righteous. It is one thing for God to call us righteous because we look to Him for our every need. But it is quite another for us to fool ourself in thinking we are truly righteous and perfect without sin, unless the Spirit and the Word are indwelling us to be MADE in the image of Christ who is the image of God in attributes.

CarlosB said:
VitorA

Would that thou knowest what was Job's sin?

You are correct Carlos, Job did sin as I explained and that is why it says:
Prov 26:2
2 As the bird by wandering, as the swallow by flying, so the curse causeless shall not come.
KJV

We should also take special note in our life especially as we are learning to overcome our fleshly beast nature learning how to walk on THE LIVING WATER with the Word. When we have strife in our daily life, it is because we are stepping outside of the body instead of the straight and narrow path to life that lines up perfectly with the ROD/Law of our Shepherd that KEEPS US IN LINE for blessings will find us there as we head to the path of the GOOD LIFE hidden in Christ.

gregg · Jul 19, 2013

~~job 3 25 is the reason for his trial. fear :unsure:~~

Angelina · Jul 19, 2013

Hi sogj! I hope you are well

I would agree with JB in the fact that Job began to justify himself before his friends thinking that he had done no wrong.....

aspen · Jul 21, 2013

The whole point of the story is the temptation of a good person. You guys who believed that Job sinned are missing the entire point of the story and falling into the same sin as Job's friends. This is the story of a man who was righteous before God and still experienced hardship and instead of cursing God, he submitted to God's sovereignty. It really is one of the more straightforward stories in the OT......

Dodo_David · Jul 21, 2013

Wow! Apparently, Job's friends Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar are still alive and members of this site. Who else would keep saying that Job had sinned?

In an article about the book of Job published in the theological journal Bibliotheca Sacra, Dr. Gregory W. Parsons writes the following:

It is this writer's belief that the purpose of the Book of Job is to show that the proper relationship between God and man is based solely on the sovereign grace of God and man's response of faith and submissive trust.

It has been my observation that modern-day Westerners have a habit of reading the stories in the Old Testament with ethnocentric eyes, in that Westerners don't necessarily interpret ancient Eastern documents (such as the Old Testament books) the same way that the original readers of those books did.

That is why Westerners tend to be puzzled by the book of Job's claim that Job was blameless. We know that in the real world, the only person who was truly without sin was the LORD Jesus. So, how could Job have been a real person and still be blameless?

The answer to that question lies in the genre of the book of Job. The Jewish Encyclopedia.com calls the book of Job a poem and it's author a poet. The people of the ancient East did not need for every detail of a story to be a historical fact in order for the story to teach a spiritual truth. So, in their minds, it would not have been necessary for the man Job to have actually existed in order for the spiritual lesson of the book of Job to be true. What mattered to them was the spiritual lesson of a story. To scrutinize every detail of a story was to miss the forest for the trees.

JB_Reformed Baptist · Jul 21, 2013

Again, the purpose of Jobs experience had nothing to do with discipline. He was not punished rather his experience afforded him and was purposed by God to be corrective. Dealing with anything residual that was not apparent to the naked eye but was to God.

Otherwise God wouldn't have said... And the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil? He still holds fast his integrity, although you incited me against him to destroy him without reason." Job 2:3

aspen · Jul 21, 2013

Great post, David.

What was Job's sin?

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