What was Job's sin?

michaelvpardo · Aug 3, 2013

Actually, Job had a sin serious enough to keep him from salvation, though it wasn't God that killed his children and brought all those calamities upon him:
So these three men ceased answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes. Job 32:1

If Job hadn't sinned there would be no reason for his repentance in chapter 42:
Listen, please, and let me speak;
You said, ‘I will question you, and you shall answer Me.’

5 “I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear,
But now my eye sees You.
6 Therefore I abhor myself,
And repent in dust and ashes.” Job 42:4-6
Its one thing to fear God and to attempt to do what is right. Its an entirely different thing to see Him as He is and to realize yourself for what you are. Amen.

aspen2 said:
The whole point of the story is the temptation of a good person. You guys who believed that Job sinned are missing the entire point of the story and falling into the same sin as Job's friends. This is the story of a man who was righteous before God and still experienced hardship and instead of cursing God, he submitted to God's sovereignty. It really is one of the more straightforward stories in the OT......

Now I see your difficulty. There is no one good but God, and no one shall glory in His presence.

aspen · Aug 4, 2013

Michael V Pardo said:
Now I see your difficulty. There is no one good but God, and no one shall glory in His presence.

So you are saying that Job deserved the treatment he received from satan because he is under the curse of the fall? So why were his friends wrong for trying to determine Job's sin?

Yes, Job, like all people is guilty because of the fall, but that is not the point of the story. The story is about a man who is described as blameless before God and tempted to sin against God in response to mistreatment by God. It is a story about bad things happening to good people, which is why humanity still relates to it today; after all, we still wonder why bad things happen to good people, today. It is not a commentary on Original Sin or the morality of God. It is about God's omnipotence and His sovereignty over even the horrible calamities in life.

michaelvpardo · Aug 4, 2013

aspen2 said:
So you are saying that Job deserved the treatment he received from satan because he is under the curse of the fall? So why were his friends wrong for trying to determine Job's sin?

Yes, Job, like all people is guilty because of the fall, but that is not the point of the story. The story is about a man who is described as blameless before God and tempted to sin against God in response to mistreatment by God. It is a story about bad things happening to good people, which is why humanity still relates to it today; after all, we still wonder why bad things happen to good people, today. It is not a commentary on Original Sin or the morality of God. It is about God's omnipotence and His sovereignty over even the horrible calamities in life.

No, thats not the point of the story at all. The real point is that absolutely no one is saved through their own righteous works, because those works are what we were created to do:
So likewise you, when you have done all those things which you are commanded, say, ‘We are unprofitable servants. We have done what was our duty to do.’ Luke 17:10
Job's friends were rebuked because they added to Job's affliction with their words rather than comfort him in his loss, a very common thing for evil men to do. There is nothing good within us that the Lord doesn't place there. Salvation is accomplished by God alone and we add absolutely nothing to it. To do so would be to diminish Christ's accomplishment, raising ourselves up at His expense, and again, if Job had done nothing wrong, his repentance would be pointless.
Consider this, there are millions of professing Christians that still think that God is judging them based upon their own works. The Lord doesn't want them to die in their sin, but rather to accept His own righteousness through faith in the finished work of Christ at the cross. That's more than enough reason for the book of Job to be included in scripture. If you still believe that there are some people who are good and some who are evil, you're missing the whole point of Jesus's teaching:32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.” Luke 5:32
This is exactly what the Apostle Paul teaches in chapter 3 of the book of Romans, but admitteddly hard to understand, if not impossible, with carnal thinking. That's probably why some churches avoid teaching from those passages at all.

AndyBern · Aug 4, 2013

Michael V Pardo said:
If Job hadn't sinned there would be no reason for his repentance in chapter 42:

Not necessarily. Repentance is just a change of mind. While many times it refers to turning from sin, it doesn't have to. God doesn't sin, yet He repented multiple times (Genesis 6:6, 1 Samuel 15:11, etc.). In fact, most uses of this word in the Old Testament have to do with God repenting. So, just because Job repented doesn't mean it was from sin.

I believe Job's repentance was about his no longer seeking an answer from God for his unjust suffering... which was not necessarily a sin. (God Himself said Job's suffering was unjust in Job 2:3.)

Michael V Pardo said:
The real point is that absolutely no one is saved through their own righteous works, ...

The point of the story is given in chapters 1 and 2, leading to the climax in 42:7: Does God deserve to be worshiped or blasphemed based on undeserved things that happen to us?

This book is primarily about God: His worthiness to be worshiped. It is only secondarily about the righteousness of Job. If the book was about Job, God would have told Eliphaz something like, "You have not spoken rightly about my servant Job...".

michaelvpardo · Aug 5, 2013

AndyBern said:
Not necessarily. Repentance is just a change of mind. While many times it refers to turning from sin, it doesn't have to. God doesn't sin, yet He repented multiple times (Genesis 6:6, 1 Samuel 15:11, etc.). In fact, most uses of this word in the Old Testament have to do with God repenting. So, just because Job repented doesn't mean it was from sin.

I believe Job's repentance was about his no longer seeking an answer from God for his unjust suffering... which was not necessarily a sin. (God Himself said Job's suffering was unjust in Job 2:3.)

The point of the story is given in chapters 1 and 2, leading to the climax in 42:7: Does God deserve to be worshiped or blasphemed based on undeserved things that happen to us?

This book is primarily about God: His worthiness to be worshiped. It is only secondarily about the righteousness of Job. If the book was about Job, God would have told Eliphaz something like, "You have not spoken rightly about my servant Job...".

All the books of the bible are primarily about God, but God isn't schizophrenic. If He says by His Spirit that there is no one righteous, and if He says by His Son, there is no one good but God, you need to understand that those that are referred to as righteous are called that because they've believed Him. Consider the priest Isaiah who wrote:

5 You meet him who rejoices and does righteousness, Who remembers You in Your ways.
You are indeed angry, for we have sinned— In these ways we continue; And we need to be saved.

6 But we are all like an unclean thing, And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags;
We all fade as a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, Have taken us away.
7 And there is no one who calls on Your name, Who stirs himself up to take hold of You;
For You have hidden Your face from us, And have consumed us because of our iniquities. Isaiah 64:5-7

Some people will say that Isaiah was only speaking about his own generation, but what does the Apostle Paul say?
10 As it is written: “There is none righteous, no, not one; 11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God. 12 They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one." Romans 3:10-12
And what does the Apostle John give us in 1st John?
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1st John 1:8-10
Take another look at chapter 42 of the book of Job. Did Job cover himself in dust and ashes just because he changed his mind, or was he mourning his sin and demonstrating this by the physical sign of making himself unclean? Job's own righteousness, like that of the best of us, is just another fig leaf. God loved Job too much to let him die in his sin, so he allowed Satan to uncover Job's nakedness so that he might receive the rightousness of God, and he clearly did.

AndyBern · Aug 5, 2013

Nobody is saying Job was sinless. But the sins Job was accused of by his friends were false (Job 22:5-9), and he certainly had the right to deny those false accusations.

Job did not claim to be sinless (Job 9;2, 14:4). All he claimed was that the things that happened to him were not the consequences of his sin. And he was right. Satan's attacks were not because of sin but because Job was "blameless and upright, and one who feared God, and turned away from evil".

Job was more righteous than his friends. Practically speaking, he was more righteous than any of us, so we shouldn't be siding with his friends.

michaelvpardo · Aug 7, 2013

AndyBern said:
Nobody is saying Job was sinless. But the sins Job was accused of by his friends were false (Job 22:5-9), and he certainly had the right to deny those false accusations.

Job did not claim to be sinless (Job 9;2, 14:4). All he claimed was that the things that happened to him were not the consequences of his sin. And he was right. Satan's attacks were not because of sin but because Job was "blameless and upright, and one who feared God, and turned away from evil".

Job was more righteous than his friends. Practically speaking, he was more righteous than any of us, so we shouldn't be siding with his friends.

Sorry to tell you this, but the Lord doesn't grade on a curve and Jesus is the same, yesterday, today, and forever. Christians should be on the side of truth, which is the Lord's side. God doesn't excuse sin, but rather made atonement for it with the precious blood of His Son. I'm not asking you to learn from me, but to learn from Him.

zhavoney · Sep 8, 2013

CarlosB said:
What was Job's sin that caused God to kill his servants, his ten children, their cattle, farm and destroy their own health?

God tested Job's faithfulness. Jobs only sin was not understanding that God's requirements for you might hurt and God is not evil or unjust for putting you through it if need be.

michaelvpardo · Sep 9, 2013

zhavoney said:
God tested Job's faithfulness. Jobs only sin was not understanding that God's requirements for you might hurt and God is not evil or unjust for putting you through it if need be.

Okay, let's try this again for those who either haven't actually read the book, or simply missed it: 32 So these three men ceased answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes. 2 Then the wrath of Elihu, the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the family of Ram, was aroused against Job; his wrath was aroused because he justified himself rather than God. 3 Also against his three friends his wrath was aroused, because they had found no answer, and yet had condemned Job. Job 32:1-3 A man can never attain to the righteousness of God, and self righteousness leads to this: 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ Matthew 7:22-24.

Then Job answered the Lord and said:

2 “I know that You can do everything, And that no purpose of Yours can be withheld from You. 3 You asked, ‘Who is this who hides counsel without knowledge?’
Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand, Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know. 4 Listen, please, and let me speak; You said, ‘I will question you, and you shall answer Me.’

5 “I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear, But now my eye sees You. 6 Therefore I abhor myself, And repent in dust and ashes.”

7 And so it was, after the Lord had spoken these words to Job, that the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “My wrath is aroused against you and your two friends, for you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has. Job 42:1-7
Self righteousness is a form of pride. You'll notice that God rebuked Job's three friends, but did not rebuke Elihu. This was because Elihu spoke truthfully: 17 I also will answer my part, I too will declare my opinion. 18 For I am full of words; The spirit within me compels me. 19 Indeed my belly is like wine that has no vent; It is ready to burst like new wineskins. 20 I will speak, that I may find relief; I must open my lips and answer. 21 Let me not, I pray, show partiality to anyone; Nor let me flatter any man. 22 For I do not know how to flatter, Else my Maker would soon take me away. Job 32:17-22
Self righteous people don't generally see their own sin, but God is gracious and isn't willing to allow those who fear Him to perish, and so He does what must be done to bring them to repentance. Seeing God for who He is and who we are not will usually do it.

AndyBern · Sep 9, 2013

It doesn't matter if Job was righteous in his own eyes. All that matters is if he was righteous in God's eyes... and he was (Job 1:8, 2:3, 42:7-8, Ezekiel 14:14, 20).

zhavoney · Sep 9, 2013

Michael V Pardo said:
Okay, let's try this again for those who either haven't actually read the book, or simply missed it: 32 So these three men ceased answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes. 2 Then the wrath of Elihu, the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the family of Ram, was aroused against Job; his wrath was aroused because he justified himself rather than God. 3 Also against his three friends his wrath was aroused, because they had found no answer, and yet had condemned Job. Job 32:1-3 A man can never attain to the righteousness of God, and self righteousness leads to this: 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ Matthew 7:22-24.

Then Job answered the Lord and said:

2 “I know that You can do everything, And that no purpose of Yours can be withheld from You. 3 You asked, ‘Who is this who hides counsel without knowledge?’
Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand, Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know. 4 Listen, please, and let me speak; You said, ‘I will question you, and you shall answer Me.’

5 “I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear, But now my eye sees You. 6 Therefore I abhor myself, And repent in dust and ashes.”

7 And so it was, after the Lord had spoken these words to Job, that the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “My wrath is aroused against you and your two friends, for you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has. Job 42:1-7
Self righteousness is a form of pride. You'll notice that God rebuked Job's three friends, but did not rebuke Elihu. This was because Elihu spoke truthfully: 17 I also will answer my part, I too will declare my opinion. 18 For I am full of words; The spirit within me compels me. 19 Indeed my belly is like wine that has no vent; It is ready to burst like new wineskins. 20 I will speak, that I may find relief; I must open my lips and answer. 21 Let me not, I pray, show partiality to anyone; Nor let me flatter any man. 22 For I do not know how to flatter, Else my Maker would soon take me away. Job 32:17-22
Self righteous people don't generally see their own sin, but God is gracious and isn't willing to allow those who fear Him to perish, and so He does what must be done to bring them to repentance. Seeing God for who He is and who we are not will usually do it.

Righteous in his own eyes was the opinion of the three that were wrong. Job believed that he would only suffer such things because of sin yet he knew he was sinless. He did not realize that God was revealing in job what would need to be understood later on when God sent his Son to become The tried stone the precious corner stone and sacrifice for sin.

AndyBern · Sep 10, 2013

When a word is used in the scriptures, look at the context. Words like 'salvation', 'repentance', and 'righteousness' have different meanings depending on the context. In this topic thread, there's confusion going on between absolute righteousness (i.e. the kind needed to escape eternal judgment and get into heaven), and the righteousness the three friends talk about (and spoken of in Ezekiel 14:14 - to escape temporal punishment).

Job did not claim to be absolutely righteous (Job 9:2, 14:4). But he did claim to be righteous in regard to the accusations of his friends. An illustration will help.

Suppose you lost your wife and children in a car accident. Then I came to you, with two friends of mine, and said, "This happened because God is judging you for murdering John F. Kennedy!" You deny the absurd accusation, but we keep insisting you did it. Eventually, we give up because you won't admit to what we are convinced you did. We see you as righteous in your own eyes. This is the kind of righteousness referred to in Job 32:1, not absolute righteousness.

The bad things Job experienced did not happen because he sinned, but because he was "blameless and upright, and one who feared God, and turned away from evil." That is the whole point of the dialog between God and Satan. God was not punishing Job, but Satan had made it appear that way to Job and the friends.

Taking the illustration one step further. Suppose all the turmoil of the disaster and accusations got to you enough to convince you God was judging you for JFK's murder. You know you didn't do it, but the situation you found yourself in, plus accusations of your friends, had somehow effected your thinking in that way. What would be your response to God?

"God is punishing me for something I didn't do. I guess He didn't really just." ???

No! You know God is good and just. Something doesn't add up, and you naturally want to ask God why. I think Job went too far in demanding an explanation, but who am I to judge?

zhavoney · Sep 10, 2013

Before Job all believed that evil happened to those who sinned against God. It was never heard of that God might Test someones faith or faithfulness. God chose Job to bring forth this new understanding. Without this understanding of being tried and tested bruising His son for others transgressions would seem meaningless.

1 Peter 1
7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ,

michaelvpardo · Sep 11, 2013

zhavoney said:
Righteous in his own eyes was the opinion of the three that were wrong. Job believed that he would only suffer such things because of sin yet he knew he was sinless. He did not realize that God was revealing in job what would need to be understood later on when God sent his Son to become The tried stone the precious corner stone and sacrifice for sin.

No, the scripture says that these men stopped answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes. That's the word of God, not the opinion of men. Elihu said that Job justified himself instead of justifying God, this is true and is what self righteousness is. No man can ever justify himself before God. You really need to learn this and fast.

AndyBern said:
When a word is used in the scriptures, look at the context. Words like 'salvation', 'repentance', and 'righteousness' have different meanings depending on the context. In this topic thread, there's confusion going on between absolute righteousness (i.e. the kind needed to escape eternal judgment and get into heaven), and the righteousness the three friends talk about (and spoken of in Ezekiel 14:14 - to escape temporal punishment).

Job did not claim to be absolutely righteous (Job 9:2, 14:4). But he did claim to be righteous in regard to the accusations of his friends. An illustration will help.

Suppose you lost your wife and children in a car accident. Then I came to you, with two friends of mine, and said, "This happened because God is judging you for murdering John F. Kennedy!" You deny the absurd accusation, but we keep insisting you did it. Eventually, we give up because you won't admit to what we are convinced you did. We see you as righteous in your own eyes. This is the kind of righteousness referred to in Job 32:1, not absolute righteousness.

The bad things Job experienced did not happen because he sinned, but because he was "blameless and upright, and one who feared God, and turned away from evil." That is the whole point of the dialog between God and Satan. God was not punishing Job, but Satan had made it appear that way to Job and the friends.

Taking the illustration one step further. Suppose all the turmoil of the disaster and accusations got to you enough to convince you God was judging you for JFK's murder. You know you didn't do it, but the situation you found yourself in, plus accusations of your friends, had somehow effected your thinking in that way. What would be your response to God?

"God is punishing me for something I didn't do. I guess He didn't really just." ???

No! You know God is good and just. Something doesn't add up, and you naturally want to ask God why. I think Job went too far in demanding an explanation, but who am I to judge?

Andrew,
You really have missed the point. Elihu's righteous wrath was aroused because Job justified himself rather than God. That's sin, whether you realize it or not. No one who is self justified (self righteous) will ever stand blameless in the day of God's judgment. "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." "All have gone astray." "There is none righteous, no not one, there is no one who does good" ", there is no one who seeks God"," there is no one good but God", etc., etc., etc.
God allowed Satan to go after Job, not just for demonstration purposes (as that would be evil,) but to bring Job to repentance. This is basic Christianity 101. If you don't get this, you really don't get anything.

AndyBern · Sep 11, 2013

So, if something bad happens to you and I say it happened because you killed JFK, you will admit you did it rather than justify yourself?

michaelvpardo · Sep 15, 2013

AndyBern said:
So, if something bad happens to you and I say it happened because you killed JFK, you will admit you did it rather than justify yourself?

Elihu didn't accuse Job of anything other than justifying himself rather than God and this is exactly what Job did in the book that we call "Job". If you stand on your own righteousness before God, you'll fall every time.

zhavoney · Sep 25, 2013

Michael V Pardo said:
No, the scripture says that these men stopped answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes. That's the word of God, not the opinion of men. Elihu said that Job justified himself instead of justifying God, this is true and is what self righteousness is. No man can ever justify himself before God. You really need to learn this and fast.

They are the ones who acted on what they believed. The scripture did not say that it was Gods view not to mention that the scripture was written by Job. Job would not have written that opinion of himself since the outcome didn't go there.

horsecamp · Sep 26, 2013

There is not a word in the Bible which is extra cruem, which can be understood without reference to the cross.
MARTIN LUTHER

Anything that one imagines of God apart from Christ is only useless thinking and vain idolatry. --Martin Luther

Lord Jesus, you are my righteousness, I am your sin. You have taken upon yourself what is mine and given me what is yours. You have become what you were not so that I might become what I was not. MARTIN LUTHER

WHAT DID Job say about The savior Jesus that would come ?

Job 19:23-27
New International Version (NIV)

23 “Oh, that my words were recorded,
that they were written on a scroll,
24 that they were inscribed with an iron tool on[a] lead,
or engraved in rock forever!
25 I know that my redeemer[b] lives,
and that in the end he will stand on the earth.[c]
26 And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet[d] in[e] my flesh I will see God;
27 I myself will see him
with my own eyes—I, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!

afaithfulone4u · Sep 26, 2013

Angelina said:
Hi sogj! I hope you are well

I would agree with JB in the fact that Job began to justify himself before his friends thinking that he had done no wrong.....

Job was self righteous... God can call us righteous but it is only because we acknowledge Him but it does not mean we are sinless. If we do not rest in God and we fear something to happen to us, knowing that God is our protector and provider, then we are in unbelief and the thing that you fear shall come upon you due to your unbelief. Also Job may have covered his children's sinful ways by making sacrifices unto God for them.. but God desires mercy and Job should have been teaching his children to obey God, not just allowing them to live a sinful way and then just covering it.

Job 3:26
25 For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.
KJV
Ezek 11:8
8 Ye have feared the sword; and I will bring a sword upon you, saith the Lord GOD.
KJV
Jer 42:16
16 Then it shall come to pass, that the sword, which ye feared, shall overtake you there in the land of Egypt, and the famine, whereof ye were afraid, shall follow close after you there in Egypt; and there ye shall die.
KJV

We are not to have a spirit to fear, but one of love, power and a sound mind as we trust in our God casting all our cares upon Him.

michaelvpardo · Sep 28, 2013

zhavoney said:
They are the ones who acted on what they believed. The scripture did not say that it was Gods view not to mention that the scripture was written by Job. Job would not have written that opinion of himself since the outcome didn't go there.

You should probably try reading the book again a few times. Elihu said that Job justified himself instead of justifying God, this is true and is what self righteousness is. Elihu was not one of Job's 3 friends, but someone who isn't mentioned at all, until he speaks. Elihu is never corrected or rebuked in the book of Job. If Job did indeed write the book of Job, then Job did indeed confess his own sin of self righteousness, of justifying himself instead of justifying God.
Lets really get down to business. Are you justified? That is, have you been accounted as righteous before God? Was it for anything that you've ever done in your lifetime, and if not, why or how are you justified?

What was Job's sin?

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