IBeMe said:
·Why do you keep ignoring Paul's words?
"Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, ..."
When a person ask Jesus into their heart, all their past sins are forgiven.
They're responsible for their actions after that.
"Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee."
"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"
"But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries."
"He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:"
"Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"
"For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people."
"It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."
I'm not ignoring what Paul wrote, but I believe that you are misunderstanding what was written in Hebrews and I've already commented at length upon that. The Pastor of the congregation with which I am presently worshipping on Sundays, has been teaching from Hebrews at the same time as I've been drawn back to these passages and holds a similar view to your own, but I'm quite convinced that he is mistaken too. You and he both present God as fickle (though he would never admit to such a thing and I doubt that you are intending to suggest it), but God is not a man that He should repent. Let me explain something from another perspective. Consider this, the blood of Jesus was shed upon a cross of wood nearly 2000 years ago, but it remains sufficient to cover the sins that we committed nearly 2000 years later. The scripture calls Jesus the Savior of the world, but especially of those that believe. This last biblical comment doesn't teach universalism, rather it teaches that Jesus' precious blood, His death upon that cruel cross, was sufficient payment for the sin of all mankind, including those that reject Him. The fact that Jesus died for them (that is the ungodly) is sufficient reason to commit all judgment to Him: He bought them with His blood so it's only reasonable that He should determine their eternal fate, and He Himself told us just how He would make that determination:
21. "Not everyone who says to Me, `Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22. "Many will say to Me in that day, `Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23. "And then I will declare to them, `I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
Matthew 7:21-23
You'll notice that Jesus does mention works in the sense that those he condemns are those "
who practice lawlessness," but His judgment is based upon the fact that He never "
knew" them.
There is a longer passage about how He will make judgment found in chapter 25 of Matthew which gives the appearance that His judgment is based again solely on works, however, the understanding we receive from Paul's writings is that our works reflect what is within us as much as who we are obeying. The "working out" of salvation or of judgment, is in giving reign to the Holy Spirit within us (received through faith in Jesus Christ) or in giving reign to the spirit of this age which works in the hearts of the disobedient. After receiving the Spirit of Christ, a born again saint has a life long battle with the nature that we received by birth which Paul refers to as the "old man" or sinful nature, but we are promised the victory by both the word of God and by the presence of the Divine Spirit within us. The spirit of this age, the spirit of anti-Christ, does not peacefully coexist with the Spirit of Christ, and if you think that either that spirit or that the spirit of man can win in a contest with God, then you're attributing omnipotence to it or to man (and a potential stalemate). There is only One God and we aren't Him.
The concept of Jesus "knowing" us is not speaking to His knowledge of us or omniscience, but of His relationship to us, e.g. He knows those in whom His Spirit dwells, those who are born again and have become a new creation. These were once children of wrath by nature, but have become children of God and precious to Him:
1. And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2. in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3. among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. 4. But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5. even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6. and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7. that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9. not of works, lest anyone should boast. Ephesians 2:1-9
While it may be possible for us to live a victorious life by demonstrating complete obedience to the guidance of His Spirit, none of the biblical admonitions would be necessary if "evil" inclinations didn't remain with us according to our "fleshly" nature. If we were left to our own resources, not one of us would ever see the kingdom of God. But God, in His graciousness toward us has given His Spirit to all who believe and submit themselves to Him in faith, trusting that the gift given in the life of His Son is sufficient price for our redemption, but not all have entered in by faith, even as we see the admonitions in the book of Hebrews. In the example given of the congregation of Israel passing through the Red sea and under the cloud in the wilderness, all were under the same cloud, but some (even most) did not believe. All of us have a redemptive price paid for us with the blood of our Lord, All if they hear Him speak are exposed to the same truth, all if they have received intercession through prayer (of the actual congregation) have received grace and tasted of the Spiritual gift, but not all have entered in by faith, not all have believed, not all have place their trust in His righteousness rather than in their own, not all have entered into His rest.
However to those who have believed and received Him by faith we also find in Hebrews:
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified. Hebrews 10:14
You'll notice that the verse doesn't say "by one offering and by repeated sacrifice or by repeated confessions, or by any works, etc."
Paul makes this abundantly clear in Romans:
29. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. 31. What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32. He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?
33. Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. 34. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. Romans 8:29-34
And just in case we want to make some argument about those immature in the faith who are deceived by a lot of foolishness Paul wrote to Timothy:
16. But shun profane and vain babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. 17. And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort,
18. who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 19. Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: "The Lord knows those who are His,'' and, "Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.'' 20. But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21. Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. 2 Timothy 2:16-21
As a born again believer, your sin will make you unfit for service, but it no longer condemns you. Having said this, God is faithful to restore those who are disobedient and has taken on this responsibility when they received His Spirit by faith in His Son. I didn't make this up, its all found in scripture. If your heart is unbelieving, then it isn't me that your not believing, but scripture, the very word of God.
You may believe that you are somehow defending scripture or your church by denying the doctrines of grace, but what you are actually defending is "self righteousness" and the notion that we must make ourselves fit for God, as though He were unable to do it. Sanctification is a grace, not wrought by us, but by His Spirit within us. We can choose to resist Him, to be rebellious, and to even refuse His grace, but if we've received His Spirit, the Lord will see us returned to Him. We have been bought with a price and are not our own. Those who refuse the gospel, who refuse His grace but cling to their own righteousness, trample upon the blood of Christ and treat it as a common thing, which is to say, they are unbelieving and this because they do not have the witness of His Spirit within them. It's always one or the other, it can't be both and God remain all that He proclaims Himself to be. How big is your God?
