Is America Becoming A Force For Evil In The World?

This Vale Of Tears · Sep 9, 2013

No I'm not an America basher and I certainly love my country and have for all my life been considered very patriotic. But over the last 20 years these events have occurred:

1. We dropped bombs in a conflict in Bosnia that we didn't fully understand causing even our allies to label us a "hyper-power"

2. We used subsides to turn corn into a cash crop resulting in an inflation of food prices all over the globe that affected the poorest nations the most; all in the name of fighting the global warming myth

3. We invaded a sovereign nation based on flimsy and specious evidence; a nation that had not attacked us and didn't pose an imminent threat to our security.

4. We deliberately gave guns to Mexican drug cartels via American gun shops in hopes that the ensuing bloodshed would effervesce into an outcry for more gun control.

5. We use drones to illegally enter countries with whom we are not at war to surgically strike targets on our "hit list".

6. We propped up African warlords guilty of genocide

7. And now we're getting ready to enter yet another war that we don't quite understand, being tricked (as we were in Bosnia) by the use of chemical weapons that can't be credibly linked to Basher Al-Assad and may have very well been used by the rebel forces on themselves to solicit our involvement.

And I'm sure this is a list that can be added to. I think we've gone a long ways from the time when we were seen as liberators, as champions of the free world that stood up to world evil. It grieves me to see my country becoming the oppressor and in my opinion that's what is fast happening.

John S · Sep 9, 2013

Is the U.S a force for evil - NO.

This Vale Of Tears · Sep 9, 2013

John S said:
Is the U.S a force for evil - NO.

A better question for you might be how is America a force for good within the last 2 decades?

jst5 · Sep 11, 2013

I'm a Marine vet ..fought in Vietnam..have two sons that went on to be Marines as well.I feel I can speak on this subject.

America is not the America most of the common folks would like to believe it is.It's ran like a corporation now...and with a corporation comes doing what's best for the elite and not what's good for the 9 to 5ers.We don't fight for freedom anymore....the young men and women give their lifes for what's good for the corporation and the elite.Once everyday America's come to grips with that...then they can view how America really is now.

Dodo_David · Sep 11, 2013

This Vale Of Tears said:
1. We dropped bombs in a conflict in Bosnia that we didn't fully understand causing even our allies to label us a "hyper-power"

Uh, the UN Secretary-General requested that NATO conduct air strikes against Serb forces after the latter continued attacking UN safe zones. NATO air strikes also took place in response to the Markale massacres in which civilians were targeted. In short, the NATO air strikes were carried out in order to protect civilians and to bring an end to the Bosnian war.

This Vale Of Tears said:
2. We used subsides to turn corn into a cash crop resulting in an inflation of food prices all over the globe that affected the poorest nations the most; all in the name of fighting the global warming myth

Since when is the USA solely responsible for the price of food outside the the USA? Is the USA responsible for growing corn for the entire world?

This Vale Of Tears said:
3. We invaded a sovereign nation based on flimsy and specious evidence; a nation that had not attacked us and didn't pose an imminent threat to our security.

"Saddam deceived his own army and the best intelligence agencies in the world into believing he still had WMDs because he believed none of his enemies would dare attack him if he had WMDs." - Source

"Those who criticize the actions taken by President Bush and his team should answer the question what they would have done in the face of the outrageous bluff attempted by Saddam Hussein. He deliberately tried to make the world believe he had WMD, harassing U.N. inspectors and destroying monitoring equipment, and he succeeded. President Bush had every reason not to take a chance that could leave the American people exposed to the dangers of an Iraq armed with WMD. In the post-9/11 world, the stakes in the game Saddam was playing were simply too high." - Source

This Vale Of Tears said:
4. We deliberately gave guns to Mexican drug cartels via American gun shops in hopes that the ensuing bloodshed would effervesce into an outcry for more gun control.

It is true that federal agents did not intervene when people working for Mexican drug cartels purchased guns from American sources, but the U.S. did not give the guns to the cartels. Also, the claim "in hopes that the ensuing bloodshed would effervesce into an outcry for more gun control" is nothing but wild speculation.

This Vale Of Tears said:
5. We use drones to illegally enter countries with whom we are not at war to surgically strike targets on our "hit list".

How about supporting your claim that U.S.-owned drones entered other nations illegally?

"Government consent provides the firmest legal footing, legal experts say. The U.S. has that in Yemen, whose government assists with U.S. strikes against an al Qaeda affiliate. In Somalia, the nominal government, which controls little territory, has welcomed U.S. military strikes against militants." - Source

This Vale Of Tears said:
6. We propped up African warlords guilty of genocide.

How about supporting your claim with evidence?

This Vale Of Tears said:
7. And now we're getting ready to enter yet another war that we don't quite understand, being tricked . . .

Tricked? Like Saddam Hussein tricked Western nations into believing that Iraq still had WMDs?

Unlike in 2003, when Congress approved of the use of the U.S. military in Iraq, most current members of Congress are opposed to any U.S. military strikes in Syria. So, if President Obama were to order a military strike in Syria, then he would be going against the expressed collective will of the American people.

As for the USA being "a force for good", why should we trust any nation to be a force for good? Shouldn't the universal Church be a force for good, instead?

This Vale Of Tears · Sep 11, 2013

jst5 said:
I'm a Marine vet ..fought in Vietnam..have two sons that went on to be Marines as well.I feel I can speak on this subject.

America is not the America most of the common folks would like to believe it is.It's ran like a corporation now...and with a corporation comes doing what's best for the elite and not what's good for the 9 to 5ers.We don't fight for freedom anymore....the young men and women give their lifes for what's good for the corporation and the elite.Once everyday America's come to grips with that...then they can view how America really is now.

My sister was in Iraq and she said she felt they were just security guards for the contractors getting billions in defense spending to build infrastructure projects; this in a country we invaded with very little provocation. There's always the risk of sending the wrong message with this kind of thread because I love America, the real America that includes good people like you. But the leadership of this country has lead us down a path that's detrimental to the world whereas before we were looked to as a shining beacon of hope.

And it should be noted that I'm indicting both Democrats and Republicans in this change of demeanor.

Dodo_David said:
Uh, the UN Secretary-General requested that NATO conduct air strikes against Serb forces after the latter continued attacking UN safe zones.

Attacking the U.N.? I fail to see the crime in that.

NATO air strikes also took place in response to the Markale massacres in which civilians were targeted. In short, the NATO air strikes were carried out in order to protect civilians and to bring an end to the Bosnian war.

And so the official story goes. What really happened was we bombed from 15,000 feet in hopes for a desirable resolution, much like we're considering doing today. Both sides used us for propaganda purposes and neither was helped by NATO ordinance. No war has ever been successfully resolved by air strikes and there's a reason for that.

Since when is the USA solely responsible for the price of food outside the the USA? Is the USA responsible for growing corn for the entire world?

Everything we do has consequences. We started handing out subsidies for ethynol production and corn was turned into a cash crop. Reducing the world supply of corn caused prices to rise and those who use corn for its God given purpose (food) were competing against an artificial market of corn turned to other purposes. Your attitude that we'll just do whatever we want and we don't care how it affects others is appalling. And unchristian. We made corn more expensive all over the globe to fight the mythical Manbearpig. That's terrible.

"Saddam deceived his own army and the best intelligence agencies in the world into believing he still had WMDs because he believed none of his enemies would dare attack him if he had WMDs." - Source

"Those who criticize the actions taken by President Bush and his team should answer the question what they would have done in the face of the outrageous bluff attempted by Saddam Hussein. He deliberately tried to make the world believe he had WMD, harassing U.N. inspectors and destroying monitoring equipment, and he succeeded. President Bush had every reason not to take a chance that could leave the American people exposed to the dangers of an Iraq armed with WMD. In the post-9/11 world, the stakes in the game Saddam was playing were simply too high." - Source

The question goes to how imminent the threat was to justify such a draconian move as invading a sovereign nation. If we can use this as justification to invade other countries, then we can gin up reasons to invade just about anybody. The Christian Just War doctrine requires that the evil to be eliminated by war must be greater than the evil of war itself. How many thousands of people died because Saddam Hussein MIGHT have weapons and MIGHT use them? It's frightening that a superpower has so little restraint when you're on the other side of the sword.

It is true that federal agents did not intervene when people working for Mexican drug cartels purchased guns from American sources, but the U.S. did not give the guns to the cartels. Also, the claim "in hopes that the ensuing bloodshed would effervesce into an outcry for more gun control" is nothing but wild speculation.

Apparently you weren't paying attention. We did sell guns and watched them as they "walked" across the border into Mexico and those same guns turned up in several violent shootings committed by cartels including the killing of a border patrol agent. Daryl Issa who headed the congressional investigation into Fast and Furious says the following: “We’ve never answered the question, ‘What were they thinking of?’ Could it be that what they really were thinking of was in fact to use this walking of guns in order to promote an assault weapons ban. Many think so, and they haven’t come up with an explanation that would cause any of us not to agree." And far from just not intervening, gun store owners were told by the ATF to proceed with certain suspicious sales of weapons, the same owners who would later be the subject of investigation in a clear case of entrapment.

How about supporting your claim that U.S.-owned drones entered other nations illegally?

How about paying attention to current events? None of this is outside the axiom of those who read the news. http://www.policymic.com/articles/23708/guess-which-8-countries-the-u-s-is-waging-secret-drone-campaigns-against

How about supporting your claim with evidence?

How sad that you again demonstrate complete unawareness of the world around you. While Tea Party groups were having their applications for tax exempt status delayed and denied, Obama's brother Malik's "barack h. Obama foundation" application sailed right through and was used to raise money in support of a bloody regime in Kenya. http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/05/breaking-irs-gave-preferential-treatment-to-malik-obamas-charity-now-found-linked-to-terrorism-genocide/

Tricked? Like Saddam Hussein tricked Western nations into believing that Iraq still had WMDs?

We are being tricked. There's mounting evidence that Bahser Assad is being framed for a chemical weapons strike that was actually orchestrated by the rebels (alqueda) themselves in order to solicit US involvement. But even more troubling is that we may have been involved in setting up this rouse. http://grassrootjournal.com/the-lies-of-barack-obama-syria-edition/

Unlike in 2003, when Congress approved of the use of the U.S. military in Iraq, most current members of Congress are opposed to any U.S. military strikes in Syria. So, if President Obama were to order a military strike in Syria, then he would be going against the expressed collective will of the American people.

Gee, he's never done that before.

As for the USA being "a force for good", why should we trust any nation to be a force for good? Shouldn't the universal Church be a force for good, instead?

The comparison isn't valid. The Church is not a country and cannot be compared to the prerogatives of nations. The fact is, we have been recognized in the past as a force for good, particularly in stopping the Nazis and eventually bringing an end to the Evil Empire of the Soviet Union and anyone who loves America should want it to continue being a force for good. Nowadays we are arrogant, beligerant, and charging about like a near sighted rhinoceros. We've stopped being the good guys and that's because we no longer elect people of principle.

Pelaides · Sep 11, 2013

Miley Cyrus,Lady Gaga,The New World Order :lol: .God bless America L.O.L.

Dodo_David · Sep 11, 2013

So, I am supposed to read particular blogs and partisan websites to know what the alleged "truth" is?

This Vale Of Tears · Sep 15, 2013

Dodo_David said:
So, I am supposed to read particular blogs and partisan websites to know what the alleged "truth" is?

Or put another way, do you think that the major cable news networks cover everything or do they omit everything that casts suspicion on the establishment?

Dodo_David · Sep 16, 2013

This Vale Of Tears said:
Or put another way, do you think that the major cable news networks cover everything or do they omit everything that casts suspicion on the establishment?

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Am I to engage in McCarthyism?

rjp34652@yahoo.com · Sep 16, 2013

"Never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal."
- Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.

It was typical of Germans in the 1930's to think of themselves as being morally, physically and mentally superior to every other nation on earth. It was the Aryan myth and in our common historical perspective it seems hard to believe that a modern, educated Christian nation could swallow such rubbish.

But look, the superiority syndrome is alive and well in the twenty first century.
It only has a new name: American Exceptionalism.

It is typical of most Americans today to consider themselves God's gift to the world. Despite evidence and statistics to the contrary, USA is the chant first last and always. The people of the United States today live in a fantasy - assuming that we live in a nation that is entirely altruistic (with only a very few rough edges). That we are the best at everything there is to attain to - including but not limited to war, murder and imposition of American hegemony upon every nation on the planet. It used to be called imperialism, but we are too cultured, too good and just plain too American to accept it!

"Don't let anybody make you think that God chose America as His divine messianic force to be a sort of policeman of the whole world. God has a way of standing before the nations with justice and it seems that I can hear God saying to America, 'You are too arrogant. If you don't change your ways I will rise up and break the back bone of your power.'"
- Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. (circa 1967)

What was true in pre-9/11 America is true today....

"The US government is the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today. A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual death."
- Rev. Martin Luther King, jr. (1966)

Sorry Dr. King, America is no longer approaching spiritual death. We passed that landmark long ago.

The most highly decorated Marine Corps General in US history, Smedley D. Butler understood all too well the real nature of the US Marine Corps and US foreign policy in general when he concluded after his retirement in 1931 that;
"I spent 33 years and four months in active military service, and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism."

The de facto role of the US armed forces will be to keep the world safe for our economy and open to our cultural assault. To those ends, we will do a fair amount of killings.
- Major Ralph Peters

"The propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disegards the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven iself hath ordained."
- George Washington April 30, 1789 NYC (dedication of the nation)

We have all heard the shouts of warning. They have reached our ears from every direction and as our post-constitutional form of government continues to evolve we are experiencing the accelerating erosion of our liberty. Most of the current generation does not even know what it once meant to be free of government meddling in our private lives. What is worse, most now take it for granted.

For far too long good men and women have done nothing to reverse the course of our nation. We've been too apathetic and too proud to consider that America is circling the toilet drain of history. But what man does not do, God will accomplish.

IF GOD DOES NOT JUDGE AMERICA HE WILL HAVE TO APOLOGIZE TO SODOM AND GOMORRAH.

Think not, O Christian that you will be spared the wrath that is to come. As you have shared in its sins, so shall you share in America's judgment. Pray that God in His tender love will allow you mercy in the midst of judgment, for it may be His good pleasure to grant just enough to endure heaven's anger that is surely coming upon us.

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

Theophane · Sep 28, 2013

Satan has dominion over the whole world, and this of course includes the United States. America is not the shining city on a hill. It is in fact the new Roman Empire.

laid renard · Sep 29, 2013

Not just America, the whole world. End times remember ?

[email protected] said:
The most highly decorated Marine Corps General in US history, Smedley D. Butler understood all too well the real nature of the US Marine Corps and US foreign policy in general when he concluded after his retirement in 1931 that;
"I spent 33 years and four months in active military service, and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism."

The de facto role of the US armed forces will be to keep the world safe for our economy and open to our cultural assault. To those ends, we will do a fair amount of killings.
- Major Ralph Peters

Much like medical science. Where once it's goal was to help humanity, has now succumbed to the almighty dollar.
I read that many physicians who come from well to do families, since they could afford to do so, and despite all the time and hard work, quit after only a short while in their dream career, do to the fact that it was not what they thought it would be. One doctor said that it was not about medicine, but about business, and that the pharmaceutical companies were in control.

End times. All we can do is pray and get closer to God.

[email protected] said:
IF GOD DOES NOT JUDGE AMERICA HE WILL HAVE TO APOLOGIZE TO SODOM AND GOMORRAH.

Do you mean judge America to the extreme He did them ?

Cause God said He would spare them for just a few righteous.

And there is quite more than just a few righteous in America.

horsecamp · Sep 29, 2013

If GOD WIPED ALL The EVIL PEOPLE OFF THIS EARTH WHO WOULD BE LEFT?

Jesus came for a reason to save people from their sins..

Who could be harder to save than the person who thinks they are not a sinner?
i cant think of any one that would be harder to save than that person.

rjp34652@yahoo.com · Sep 30, 2013

horsecamp said:
If GOD WIPED ALL The EVIL PEOPLE OFF THIS EARTH WHO WOULD BE LEFT?

Jesus came for a reason to save people from their sins..

Who could be harder to save than the person who thinks they are not a sinner?
i cant think of any one that would be harder to save than that person.

Well said. Therein lies the American problem.

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

John S said:
Is the U.S a force for evil - NO.

This statement is a perfect example of what I call head-planting refusal to acknowledge facts.

In Afghanistan, prior to US involvement, there was a thriving Christian community. Schools, villages and even seminaries existed. Today there is nothing of all that once was good there! All the Christian infrastructure is gone. All of it! And all thanks to Uncle Sam.

Prior to US involvement, local religious extremists had nearly eradicated the poppy trade - a major source of income for international drug peddlers of which the US is a major player (as well as Britain). Some historians suggest a parallel between Afghanistan and the Boxer rebellion of over a century ago in China. The parallel here being altruistic motives used to hide a deeper meddling and insinuation into the local drug trade. It's thriving now, BTW. Your tax dollars at work boys and girls.

The same is true for Iranian Christians and to a more severe extent Egyptian Christians. Rumors fly that some have even been crucified in Egypt. These rumors (along with similar rumors of a Jewish holocaust) are not recognized as being true by the media and the international community. In Egypt as in Iran before it, Christian churches are being destroyed and Christian communities subjected to extreme forms of dhimmitude not seen since the middle ages.

The American century is over (there have been rather loud whispers to that effect). As a major player in determining the global political future and policies of nations, the United States, Great Britain and western Europe are now in the sunset of their former glory. Some suspect the sun has already set. The great financial power that was exercised has drained away and only debt complicated by more debt seems to be the rule of the day. To augment its collapsing empire, America has conspired with Riyadh, Doha and the GCC to furnish the military means necessary to impress Sunni Islam upon the peoples of the Levant - whether the nations there want it or not.

To add insult to injury there remain secret prisons(*) and foul deeds done in dark places in the name of American hegemony. Wikileaks provided some insight as did Mr. Snowden. The response to revealed truth about America and its crimes has been to condemn the whistle blowers - NOT to correct and punish the problems. As a result they go on and the trend toward a more autocratic fascist police state increases domestically. And all the pulpits of our once great nation continue to ignore the crimes and insinuation of the American police state upon our homes, families and communities.

I am old enough to remember an America that was a far better nation. I am old enough to have witnessed the transition from a nation that was once the standard bearer of humanitarian principles to international war crimes. And I'm old enough to remember when there was prayer in schools (that were safe) and when we said the pledge of allegiance to a flag that was ours. It isn't, you know. The flag and the country isn't ours any more. To paraphrase the opening line of an old movie - the America of old is a civilization that is gone with the wind.

The Christian needs now to ask himself or herself a very serious question. Given these circumstances, where does your allegiance now belong, to the cross above all or to the flag above all? This isn't America bashing - it's my affirmation and allegiance to righteousness and Christ Jesus above all.

IF GOD DOES NOT JUDGE AMERICA HE WILL HAVE TO APOLOGIZE TO SODOM AND GOMORRAH.

To the reader, I suggest reading about The Barnabus Fund and regular visits to its web site. I also recommend the book UNVEILED-A CHRISTIAN STUDY GUIDE TO ISLAM for your book and Bible study groups. The book is offered through the Barnabus Fund, is only 82 pages long and has group study questions at the conclusion of each chapter. Its really good and provides answers modern Christians ought to have on the tip of their tongue. For example, Allah is NOT the Jehovah god of the Bible. Why not? The Dome of the Rock, a Muslim holy site on the temple mount in Jerusalem, was erected to commemorate the ascension of Mohammad into heaven (the legend doesn't say which one of 7-the Bible says there are only 3). But did you know that Mohammad NEVER visited Jerusalem? The temple was actually erected to commemorate a dream the prophet once had. And there is more....

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

(*) GITMO is more of a shadow prison. Everybody knows what goes on there - its just that Americans simply don't care about torturing and imprisonment without trial. The America of a century ago would never have allowed such a thing. But that was then and this is now - a completely different America. Are you proud of this dear Christian? When you wave your flag are these things on your mind or are you waving a flag of fantasy?

tom55 · Oct 17, 2013

"(*) GITMO is more of a shadow prison. Everybody knows what goes on there - its just that Americans simply don't care about torturing and imprisonment without trial. The America of a century ago would never have allowed such a thing."

According to our government GITMO holds enemy combatant's and their own country won't take them back because of their intent to kill. In general I think America is a force for good in the world that is why so many people come here and want to be here. However, we have made our mistakes along the way. America, in the last century, had internment camps for Japanese and German Americans who were imprisoned without trial. We sadly have a long history of it dating back to our forefathers.

This Vale Of Tears · Oct 17, 2013

Theophane said:
Satan has dominion over the whole world, and this of course includes the United States. America is not the shining city on a hill. It is in fact the new Roman Empire.

America used to be the shining city on a hill. All of the world's democracies are modeled after us. We've been a beacon for freedom from oppression for the longest time. We are now becoming the oppressor.

Mungo · Oct 18, 2013

This Vale Of Tears said:
All of the world's democracies are modeled after us.

Funny, The UK thinks all the world's democracies are modelled after ours.

This Vale Of Tears · Oct 18, 2013

Mungo said:
Funny, The UK thinks all the world's democracies are modelled after ours.

You also still think the sun never sets on your empire!

Dodo_David · Oct 18, 2013

I do not understand why anyone would expect a nation to do the work that the universal Church is supposed to do.

Is America Becoming A Force For Evil In The World?

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