5 Criteria and 11 Categories about losing eternal life

I agree and would add the following scripture: Ezekiel 33:18-20

When the righteous turns from his righteousness and does injustice, he shall die for it. And when the wicked turns from his wickedness and does what is just and right, he shall live by this. Yet you say, "The way of the Lord is not just." O house of Israel, I will judge each of you according to his ways.

Jesus did state that not everyone who merely says "Lord, Lord" will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but those who do the will of the Father.

Curious how you understand why people will be punished in "hell"?

"Follow peace with all men and holiness, for without which NO man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14)

evangelist-7 said:

The only things I understand are explained in the Scriptures.
I believe what they say about hell and everything else.

Click to expand...

So what do you believe the scriptures say?

evangelist-7 said:

I just happen to have these 3 handy ...

Mark 9:43-48, Matt 5:29-30, Matt 18:8-9 • “If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off.
It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands,
to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched
… And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame,
rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched
… And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom
of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire”

Paul is always super tactful, mixing blessings/encouragements with his warnings/threats …

1 Tim 6:9-12 • “But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare,
and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition.
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith
in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. But you, O man of
God, flee these things and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, gentleness.
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called …”
The BAC who is greedy, etc. has strayed from the faith, and his end is perdition.
Also, notice that no BAC has eternal life yet … it is to be laid hold of … and maintained (other verses).

Heb 10:36-39 • “For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God,
you may receive the promise: ‘For yet a little while, and He who is coming will come
and will not tarry. Now the just shall live by faith; but if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.’ But we are not of those who draw back to perdition …”
The one who draws back from living by faith, draws back to perdition.
Paul’s last sentence is pure unbridled shameless encouragement, chuck full of optimism!

This reminds me of Paul’s total nonsense (underlined) …
“But now having been set free from sin,
and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end,
everlasting life. For the wages of sin is (eternal) death” (Romans 6:22-23) …
Yes, they had been set free from the power of sin, but they needed to appropriate this!
If they had actually become slaves of God, Paul would not be warning them
of eternal death ... in Romans 6:16, 6:21, and 6:23!

Click to expand...

Can you expand on what you mean by nonsense?

1 Corinthians 14:33

It is interesting that apostles refer to themselves as "dulas" which is translated as slave. (Romans 1:1, James 1:1, 2Peter 1:1, Jude 1:1, Revelation 1:1)

It seems these considered themselves slaves to God...

And then Paul asserts this in Romans 6:14-18
14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!
16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,
18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.


Are you stating we are not slaves to righteousness or God? What else that the text clearly states should we simply call nonsense?

The obedience spoken of in verse 16 refers to faith in Jesus as Christ resurrected to the right hand of the Father. Verse 17 verifies my conclusion and statement. We are brought under grace by faith and nothing more.

The texts never state that a born again Christian can lose their salvation, you have to read that presupposition into the text.

Let's now look again to verse 14...
14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

This is a definitive statement without much wiggle room for those who believe you can lose your salvation. If you are under grace, sin will not master you. To state it another way, if the favor of God is over you, God is your Master not sin.

evangelist-7 said:

Dearest JAN,

Paul is challenging them in a very tactful way, which has flown over your head (BTW, you're not alone).

He is saying ... You need to prove that you actually ARE all of these good things!
And ... Sorry, boys, sinning just does not cut it ... Youse boys are a-gonna hafta move beyond that.

Click to expand...

Or perhaps you are dismissing the point altogether, God is our Master. Lets look to what Jesus says on the topic...

Luke 17:10
10 “So you too, when you do all the things which are commanded you, say, ‘We are unworthy slaves; we have done only that which we ought to have done.’ ”



I do agree although, those who are "saved" do avoid sin and evil.

evangelist-7 said:

There are 37 obvious warning passages,
which specifically mention one (or more) of these 5 criteria:
A - eternal life or eternal death (incl. the second death) … (25)
B - going to hell (or perdition) … (3)
C - not allowed to enter the kingdom of God (or heaven) … (5)
D - not being in the Lamb’s Book of Life … (1)
E - not allowed to enter the city of New Jerusalem … (3)
Why criterias C, D, and E are included is explained at the bottom.

We are talking about 5 specific criteria for losing salvation!
And these are found in 11 different categories of warning passages.
Very strict standards have been applied for all 37 passages to qualify for inclusion.

Be faithful until death, endure to the end
A = Matt 10:22, Rev 2:10-11, 1 Tim 4:16, 1 Cor 15:1-2, 1 Pet 1:5-9,
---- Gal 6:7-8, Phil 2:12-16, Heb 2:1-4, Jude 1:20-21
B = Heb 10:36-39, 1 Tim 6:9-14

Do not be a slave to sin, do not sin
A = Rom 6:16-23, James 1:12-15, Rev 21:7-8, 2 Pet 2:20-22,
B = Mark 9:43-48
C = 1 Cor 6:9-10, Gal 5:19-21, Eph 5:3-6
E = Rev 21:27, Rev 22:14-15
See the interesting Note at the bottom about habitual sins which lead to eternal death.

Be a slave of obedience, obey the commandments, do the will of Father God
A = Matt 19:16-17, Rom 6:16-23
C = Matt 7:21
E = Rev 22:14-15

Be a slave of righteousness, practice righteousness, be righteous
A = Rom 6:16-23, Matt 25:45-46, Rom 2:5-11
C = 1 Cor 6:9-10

Do not be carnally minded, do not live according to the flesh, crucify the flesh
A = Rom 8:3-8, Rom 8:13-14, Gal 6:7-8
C = Gal 5:19-21

Know God, follow God, be led by the Spirit
A = John 17:3, John 10:27, Rom 8:13-14, Luke 9:23-24

Lose your worldly life, hate your life in this world, deny yourself
A = John 12:25, Luke 9:23-25

Make your call and election sure, work out your salvation
A = (special: Phil 2:12-16)
C = 2 Pet 1:10-11

Repent of your sins, confess your sins
A = 2 Cor 7:1-10, (special: 1 John 1:7-9)

Do not desire to be rich, do not love money
A = 1 Tim 6:17-19
B = 1 Tim 6:9-10

Be an overcomer
A = Rev 2:10-11, Rev 21:7-8
D = Rev 3:5
E = Rev 3:12

Criteria C
“And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you
to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes,
to be cast into hell fire” (Mark 9:47)
“Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the
foundation of the world … inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these,
you did not do it to Me. And these will go away into everlasting punishment,
but the righteous into eternal life.” (Matt 25:34-46)
Entering the kingdom of God appears to be the opposite of being cast into hell.
Inheriting the kingdom of God appears to be for the righteous who gain eternal life.
So, we consider entering the kingdom of God/heaven as gaining eternal life.

Criteria D
“And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.” (Rev 20:15)

Criteria E
“But there shall by no means enter it (the New Jerusalem) anything that defiles, or causes an
abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.” (Rev 21:27)

Note
Leading the honor role of habitual sins which lead to eternal death are fornication
and idolatry, and each is found in almost every passage in the Sin category.
You do realize that there are many kinds of fornication, and many kinds of idolatry!
And 3 of the passages contain murder in their long lists of sins.
Note: “… you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.” (1 John 3:15)
This condemnation of one member of the list just serves as an example for all sins!
I.E. this certainly is not about a murder which is sincerely repented of.

Click to expand...

In my Bible, Jesus said that one must be born again to inherit the Kingdom of God.

Exactly what process is involved in being UNborn again?

What I mean is this. If a man is born he cannot be UNborn. It is true he can die, but that's not the same thing. If he dies we're left with the body of a man who was once born. No one who is born can be UNborn.

Spiritually, there is much revealed in the pages of scripture about being Born Again. One is born of the Holy Spirit and that by grace freely given.
How does one become UNborn again? There is no description of how the process operates or even that it does.
There is much text in the Bible devoted to a description of the Born Again life, for it says quite clearly that once a man is born again he is a NEW CREATURE.

Is this figurative language or something that has basis in fact? If fact, then the Born Again creature cannot be UNborn again.

OK so I've read the rant before, that one can lose one's salvation, but answer me this - from whom does this salvation flow? From man or from God?
If from man, then I agree that it can be lost. Indeed the Bible says that left to himself man is entirely incapable of finding salvation in the first place.
If from God, then who can rob the Almighty and exactly how might that thievery be accomplished?

Is the hand of God so short that He cannot save?

Is God THAT ANEMIC? Or is someone here claiming that his salvation is his doing and his alone to maintain?

Did Jesus say that no man can pluck those who are His out of His hand or did Jesus say that His hand is too slippery to hang on?

Nay it is Christ who saves US and not we ourselves it is a gift of grace. Is grace then so thin that it can be shredded at any moment?
Does it depend entirely upon the man? If so we are in jeopardy every minute.

Or does it depend upon the FAITHFULNESS OF GOD?

I don't know about you, dear reader, but I know He who has the power to save me - even from myself.

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

Nice reply, re:#14. The op makes no bones about a salvation that is attained by keeping the law. (sinning is transgression of law) With all due respect to the references mentioned in the op, if we dissect them we will find that they are not about requirements for attaining or keeping eternal life by way of moral obedience. As important as moral behavior is, it cannot save. Salvation is by way of the cross and the cross alone. It comes by the obedience of One Man, and our faith in this work of One Man (Rom.5). Adding one's own effort into the equation is an insult to the sacrifice that Jesus made, an insult to the Spirit of grace, and a breech of the commandment to humble oneself. This is just a rebirth of an old discussion. We have been around this mountain before. People often mistake the warning to persevere or overcome as a warning to behave. No, it is a warning to remain humble and remain in faith. As well, they often confuse chastening with rejection. We warn our own children to behave themselves...but not at the threat of throwing them out on the street. And yet some think to attribute this kind of harshness to God with His children?

williemac said:

(refer to above)

Click to expand...

I will add to my reply concerning this quote: from reply #8: (to prove my previous point)

Mark 9:43-48, Matt 5:29-30, Matt 18:8-9 • “If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off.
It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands,
to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched
… And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame,
rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched
… And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom
of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire”

What some fail to understand is that Jesus came to them while they were under the covenant of law and He used the law to condemn and disqualify every single person that He addressed concerning it. (The covenant of grace did not begin until after the death and resurrection.)
This was the purpose of the law according to the letter to the Galatians, etc. The law points out sin. The law shows the sinner that he cannot fulfill it. The law reveals our unrighteousness. The reason it does all this is to ensure that we have no delusions concerning our ability to be justified by our own means. The law was given to show us that we need a Savior, that we need saving. This was the first priority of Jesus; to reveal to them that they were in need of a Savior. Grace is pointless to they who think have no need for it. (the same goes for mercy)

The reality is that no one's hand, foot, or eye is the real cause for sin. Jesus was giving them an impossible scenario.
The real culprit concerning our sin is the old man of flesh. And it happens that when we accept the sacrifice that was made for our sin, the old man is then positioned with Jesus on the cross. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom or everlasting life. The solution to our sin is not that we behave better, it is that we are killed. The wages of sin is death. We through faith in Jesus, become identified with His death, and ultimately our flesh is done away with and replaced with a new body in the resurrection.

It is all about being a new creation that cannot sin. But the fact that we can still sin is proof that the process which has begun in us has not yet been completed. For now, we have this treasure in earthen vessels (NKJ, 2Cor.4:7).

The danger in the op is that it causes the weak to jump off of the cross and attempt to be justified by his own effort (flesh) rather than by the work and sacrifice of Jesus. ..... "lest any man should boast"... (Luke18:10-14)

Not having my own righteousness, which is from the law (Phil.3:9)

evangelist-7 said:

In my Bible, there are several passages which warn that ...
people who do any of a long list of sins will NOT inherit the kingdom of God/heaven.


Paul warns the sinning church in Rome to become slaves of righteousness! (Rom 6)

Being BACs, they have been given the potential through the Holy Spirit
to be all kinds of good things.

But, alas, 'tis necessary to actually BE those good things!

Would you like to see the Scriptures where BACs are told
to work righteousness, to practice righteousness, etc.?

P.S. Throughout the Scriptures, habitual sinners are unrighteous,
who are going nowhere except down there.

Click to expand...

This conversation goes nowhere if we merely play with wording. Yes or no...do we get to live forever by way of our own behavior? Is it by works of law? If yes, then I will beg to differ. If no, then I agree. But I am getting neither from the op nor from you. I am getting somewhat of a hybrid of salvation through faith but also by keeping law. It is a mixture. What I see is a mixing of the two covenants. What I see is first accepting the sacrifice for sin, the sacrifice that was supposed to take away sin (remission), but then beyond accepting this sacrifice, a further requirement to quit sinning in order to be justified for life. This amounts to justification by faith and by good behavior.

I do not need to be told that BAC's are instructed in righteousness. This is a no brainer. Of course it is biblical. However, the motive for such practice is for self survival? We are to do it why? To save ourselves? The blood of Jesus is less powerful than the blood of bulls and goats? It does a less permanent, more temporary job than they? I think the author of Hebrews has something to say bout that.

PS yourself....the bible does not say that the wages of "habitual" sin is death.
God's solution to the sin issue is not to make a sinner behave better. It is to change the nature of the sinner. His solution is to do away with the species altogether and create a new one. Our behavior is never going to justify us in this life. The reason is that no matter how good it is, it is never going to be absolutely righteous..24/7, 365.

Habitual sin in the BAC is something that God knows how to deal with. He can tolerate it more than most self righteous believers can. All those whom He loves, He will rebuke and chasten. In fact, He even knows when to destroy the flesh so that one's spirit can be saved.

I will say sincerely, there is more hope for the sinner who feels shame and sorrow for his sin than for the righteous one who feels justified by his behavior. God gives grace to the humble and resists the proud. As Jesus said in Luke 18:14, those who exalt themselves will be humbled and they who humble themselves will be exalted (and justified, re:vs.13). The pharisee in that passage was not sinning. It is not enough to just not sin. God is not interested so much with the outward appearances. He examines the thoughts and motives of the heart. Doing the right things for the wrong reasons is not advisable. Self justification is definitely the wrong reason. It is written!!

[email protected] said:

In my Bible, Jesus said that one must be born again to inherit the Kingdom of God.

Exactly what process is involved in being UNborn again?

What I mean is this. If a man is born he cannot be UNborn. It is true he can die, but that's not the same thing. If he dies we're left with the body of a man who was once born. No one who is born can be UNborn.

Spiritually, there is much revealed in the pages of scripture about being Born Again. One is born of the Holy Spirit and that by grace freely given.
How does one become UNborn again? There is no description of how the process operates or even that it does.
There is much text in the Bible devoted to a description of the Born Again life, for it says quite clearly that once a man is born again he is a NEW CREATURE.

Is this figurative language or something that has basis in fact? If fact, then the Born Again creature cannot be UNborn again.

OK so I've read the rant before, that one can lose one's salvation, but answer me this - from whom does this salvation flow? From man or from God?
If from man, then I agree that it can be lost. Indeed the Bible says that left to himself man is entirely incapable of finding salvation in the first place.
If from God, then who can rob the Almighty and exactly how might that thievery be accomplished?

Is the hand of God so short that He cannot save?

Is God THAT ANEMIC? Or is someone here claiming that his salvation is his doing and his alone to maintain?

Did Jesus say that no man can pluck those who are His out of His hand or did Jesus say that His hand is too slippery to hang on?

Nay it is Christ who saves US and not we ourselves it is a gift of grace. Is grace then so thin that it can be shredded at any moment?
Does it depend entirely upon the man? If so we are in jeopardy every minute.

Or does it depend upon the FAITHFULNESS OF GOD?

I don't know about you, dear reader, but I know He who has the power to save me - even from myself.

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

Click to expand...

Being a new creation does not mean you cannot lose your salvation. Just think about the angels. Lucifer was the covering cherub.

The process of being ''unborn again'' Timothy describes as 'shipwreck' 1 Tim 1:18-19. Not a speedboat crash. But ''ship'' wreck. Imagine what you have to do to crash an ocean-liner. Turn completely away from you current path in the calm seas, find a major storm (major sin) and maintain course in that storm. Similar to adultery in a marriage.

Our confidence in Christ is that He will never leave nor forsake us, but we can. I am not talking about a sheep running away from the flock / getting lost as our shepherd is Jesus, He always finds us and brings us back. Rather us becoming wolves. Going 100% against our new nature and returning to the old. So don't picture a lost sheep, picture a sheep eating others and the shepherd removing it. When our spouse continues in adultery that is what they do. They have a complete change of heart. That is why Jesus says it is the only grounds for divorce. If you believe in OSAS then you believe it is fine to prematurely kill / kidnap / brainwash a cheating spouse.

The strongest logic argument for OSAS in my opinion is...what of those that get saved and then die immediately / early thereby escaping temptations that us who remain face. Temptations that could lead us astray. Well God knows the depth of our desire when we first get saved. If God had any doubt that we would not stay as one of His sheep in His flock, He would keep us living. God is 100% certain of the dedication and love for Him of all who go to heaven.

We can only say we made it when we are in heaven 1 Cor 10:12.

williemac said:

This conversation goes nowhere if we merely play with wording. Yes or no...do we get to live forever by way of our own behavior? Is it by works of law? If yes, then I will beg to differ. If no, then I agree. But I am getting neither from the op nor from you. I am getting somewhat of a hybrid of salvation through faith but also by keeping law. It is a mixture. What I see is a mixing of the two covenants. What I see is first accepting the sacrifice for sin, the sacrifice that was supposed to take away sin (remission), but then beyond accepting this sacrifice, a further requirement to quit sinning in order to be justified for life. This amounts to justification by faith and by good behavior.!

Click to expand...

We are in a 'greater' (not preferential) covenant. Our salvation is gauranteed if we remain in-Christ. If it was already....then why is nobody visiting heaven?, seeing angels, having a real / non-spiritual encounter with God? :huh:. Why are we still having to live by faith?

williemac said:

This conversation goes nowhere if we merely play with wording. Yes or no...do we get to live forever by way of our own behavior? Is it by works of law? If yes, then I will beg to differ. If no, then I agree. But I am getting neither from the op nor from you. I am getting somewhat of a hybrid of salvation through faith but also by keeping law. It is a mixture. What I see is a mixing of the two covenants. What I see is first accepting the sacrifice for sin, the sacrifice that was supposed to take away sin (remission), but then beyond accepting this sacrifice, a further requirement to quit sinning in order to be justified for life. This amounts to justification by faith and by good behavior.

I do not need to be told that BAC's are instructed in righteousness. This is a no brainer. Of course it is biblical. However, the motive for such practice is for self survival? We are to do it why? To save ourselves? The blood of Jesus is less powerful than the blood of bulls and goats? It does a less permanent, more temporary job than they? I think the author of Hebrews has something to say bout that.

PS yourself....the bible does not say that the wages of "habitual" sin is death.
God's solution to the sin issue is not to make a sinner behave better. It is to change the nature of the sinner. His solution is to do away with the species altogether and create a new one. Our behavior is never going to justify us in this life. The reason is that no matter how good it is, it is never going to be absolutely righteous..24/7, 365.

Habitual sin in the BAC is something that God knows how to deal with. He can tolerate it more than most self righteous believers can. All those whom He loves, He will rebuke and chasten. In fact, He even knows when to destroy the flesh so that one's spirit can be saved.

I will say sincerely, there is more hope for the sinner who feels shame and sorrow for his sin than for the righteous one who feels justified by his behavior. God gives grace to the humble and resists the proud. As Jesus said in Luke 18:14, those who exalt themselves will be humbled and they who humble themselves will be exalted (and justified, re:vs.13). The pharisee in that passage was not sinning. It is not enough to just not sin. God is not interested so much with the outward appearances. He examines the thoughts and motives of the heart. Doing the right things for the wrong reasons is not advisable. Self justification is definitely the wrong reason. It is written!!

Click to expand...

There is another thing in your reply that has a familiar tone to it from other similar topics. I couldn't put my finger on it until 3:30 this morning as I law awake mediating on these things. It is in the word "warning". Here is a quote from your reply:
"Paul warns the sinning church in Rome to become slaves of righteousness! (Rom 6)"
Really? He "warns" them? There is a purpose for someone to use that word. It suggests a threat of punishment or dire consequence. However, in reading the chapter, we see Paul reasoning with them, teaching them, instructing them, and exhorting them, in walking righteously. But then in the next chapter, he shows them how to accomplish that which he is telling them to accomplish. If you care to read it you will find that he repeats that which he has written about in many places; which is to get out from under the law and stay out from under it.

Remember what Paul said about the law? It is the strength of sin (1Cor.15:56). In Rom.7, vs.5 & 8, Paul reveals that the pressure of the law is what gives sin its strength. In vs.8, he states that sin is dead apart from law.

And how does the law work? It uses the threat of punishment and the promise of reward as the motivator in keeping it. A "warning" is a motivator. The law uses warnings. It incites the fear of loss and rejection as the motive for behavior.

God, in His infinite wisdom, has changed the motivation for us in the new covenant. Instead of promising everlasting life as a reward at the end of our lives, He starts us off with the gift of life and the assurance that He will finish that which He has started in us. This reflects the promise that Jesus made in John 5:24.

The natural mind assumes that if the pressure is taken away, then the person will head off into all kinds of licentious activity. However, along with everlasting life by way of the new birth, the Holy Spirit pours the love of God into our hearts and also is given to us to indwell us as a guarantee of our inheritance, among other things. This is the new motivation.

Anyone who thinks he is doing God or the new covenant a service by using threats and "warnings" to motivate and exhort his brothers and sisters, has another thing coming.

KingJ said:

We are in a 'greater' (not preferential) covenant. Your salvation is gauranteed if you remain in-Christ. If it was already....then why is nobody visiting heaven?, having a real / non-spiritual encounter with God? :huh:

Click to expand...

We remain in Christ the same way we entered into Christ. By grace, through faith. If we examine the letter to the Galatians, we can find an example of how one can walk away (fall) from grace. It is when we go back under the law for justification. As I shared in the above replies, the law uses warnings and threats to motivate behavior.

But to reply further, I will quote from the NKJ, John 5:24.

" Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent me, HAS EVERLASTING LIFE, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life"

It is all about faith. Faith is that which accepts a gift. Grace is that which gives the gift. The law denies that life is a gift. Motivational warnings deny that life is a gift. We love Him because He first loved us. I feel sorry for anyone who can't say for sure that they have the Holy Spirit or not. Because as long as one has the Spirit, he has a guarantee.

BTW, visiting heaven is anything but a non-spiritual experience. It is totally spiritual. Spiritual is as real as it gets. Nobody visiting heaven? Are you sure about that? Nobody you know, maybe. Or nobody you believe.

williemac said:

We remain in Christ the same way we entered into Christ. By grace, through faith. If we examine the letter to the Galatians, we can find an example of how one can walk away (fall) from grace. It is when we go back under the law for justification. As I shared in the above replies, the law uses warnings and threats to motivate behavior.

But to reply further, I will quote from the NKJ, John 5:24.

" Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent me, HAS EVERLASTING LIFE, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life"

It is all about faith. Faith is that which accepts a gift. Grace is that which gives the gift. The law denies that life is a gift. Motivational warnings deny that life is a gift. We love Him because He first loved us. I feel sorry for anyone who can't say for sure that they have the Holy Spirit or not. Because as long as one has the Spirit, he has a guarantee.

BTW, visiting heaven is anything but a non-spiritual experience. It is totally spiritual. Spiritual is as real as it gets. Nobody visiting heaven? Are you sure about that? Nobody you know, maybe. Or nobody you believe.

Click to expand...

You can't read John 5:24 without a verse like James 2:19. We must listen to what Jesus said in Matt 16:16-24 24 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. 25 For whoever wants to save their life[a] will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it.

We do not get preferential treatment from God just because we are living after the cross. God is impartial. The requirements to come to God and please Him have always been the same. Psalms 51:17 and taking up our cross.

As for the law....Many prophets fell short, but their faith was accounted to them for righteousness. In fact it would be safe to say all fell short. Trying to obey the law, whilst having a contrite heart and broken and contrite spirit got the OT people into Abraham's bosom. Just as today it gets us into heaven. Jesus is not a get out of jail free ticket. The only ''greater'' thing of the new covenant is that the law is written on our hearts. We are now in fact more accountable for knowing and doing those things that please Him.