From Eternity Past

The word alive and dead have two meanings. Our body decays and can physically die, yet our spirit and soul do not, how ever God can put us into judgment through hell, meaning torment(evil angels do this work as God allows) such as we see in this earth all over. Why is it that some are born in a part of a country that is in famine? Disease? War? Poverty stricken? Yet others are born to a better life with plenty? Remember that not even a sparrow falls to the ground without God's approval.

Because we all reap what we have sown and it is passed down to our generations because without God's Words of Wisdom that can only come and be accepted by His Spirit, man for the most part, is under the captivity of sin and suffers the consequences of it which is death physically because they are dead spiritually and living under the curse. Only by the Spirit and the Word working together in us can we be raised up to a higher standard and higher living in perfect peace and abundance(according to our souls spiritual prosperity)
Jesus said that the kingdom of God does not come with a close observation, it comes to us personally as we each learn how to walk in Christ, meaning how to abide in THE WORD and the Word abiding in us. For the kingdom of God is WITHIN US and it is up to each of us to strive for the high calling of God and to renew our minds so that we obtain BY FAITH all that God has promised us for those WHO ARE IN Christ Jesus(walking in the Word) being reborn to be led by the Spirit no longer captive to our flesh man's lusts that holds us down in the dust of the earth in wanton. God's children are supposed to be the heirs, not the low life(excuse my term) that has to steal or lie or cheat to get their needs met.
Hell begins on earth as does heaven. God says I lay before you and hell, blessing (heaven)or cursing(hellish existance), life(heaven)or death(hell fire and torment)... CHOOSE life!
Matt 10:28
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
KJV
1 Thess 5:23
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
KJV
Even God has a soul yet He is Spirit so our bodies are made for us to physically do things in the earth in the natural.

Matt 12:18
18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
KJV

God grooms us as sons by His Spirit to form us into angels. Man has been made a little lower than the angels
Rom 8:16-23
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
KJV
Is Christ being birthed in you? Not the man Jesus in your natural belly, but out of the belly of your spirit are you birthing the.. The Word being the living water that the Bible says out of their bellies with flow streams of living Water! Jesus called himself the living Water, because it is the Word who cleanses us as the Spirit washes us as a mother in the water of the Word, as new spirit born babes growing into the likeness of Christ.

Luke 20:34-38
34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
37 Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.
KJV

Jesus made it clear that when we walk the earth without the Spirit of God indwelling us... we are known as the living(physically) Dead when he told the one who he called to follow him but they first wanted to bury their father. Jesus said, let the dead(physically alive without the Spirit) bury their own dead(physically and spiritually dead).

NetChaplain said:

The intent of this article is not a presumption to know or understand God’s will for mankind, but rather to speculate concerning His control within the entirety of all of His creation. In my opinion, His will must involve complete control (acting according to foreknowledge, e.g. He always knew but not always acted upon creation until His time of choosing to create); otherwise I believe it could be concluded as confusion. Also, please forgive me if this article seems to be disruptive to you in any way.

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[SIZE=14pt]From Eternity Past[/SIZE]​

Was man supposed to enter into sin (could God say, “They weren’t supposed to do that)? Since God foreknew man would sin and allowed it to transpire, could this be part of His foreknown plans; esp. considering nothing happens without His foreknowledge and the fact that He could have preplanned to disallow it? The issue isn’t that man chose to sin, but rather the fact of God’s foreknowledge of it.

I believe since God is omniscient, every occurrence in this life that He allows to transpire is not only foreknown by Him, but is also taken into consideration as part of His plan, which was foreknown prior to creation—from eternity past. The only alternative is being bereft of the impossibility that God is not omniscient and does not foreknow everything; or He chooses not to know certain things, which would be an even greater impossibility, considering omniscience means “all knowing” (God never had to learn anything but has always foreknown everything—a very comforting thought for the saved).

To address the above concept, two prominent and unavoidable elements must be examined and if done rightly, it may serve as a base. These are; God’s will and God’s desire. In a general sense these two terms can intend identical definitions, depending upon the context, as all words do; but their specific sense varies according to usage.

The specific intention of “God’s will” concerns His “ways,” which are “past finding out” (Rom 11:33). Even though He is “not willing (desirous) that any should perish” (2 Pet 3:9), and “Who will have (wills or desires to have) all men to be saved” (1 Tim 2:4), He foreknew the generality of mankind would perish (Matt 7:13, 14). For “He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him” (John 1:11). This passage has direct reference to the Jews but may also be applied indirectly to the rest of the world when considering “The earth is the Lord’s and the fullness thereof” (1 Cor 10:26, 28).

For example, the “will of God” is that all who receive His Son inherit eternal life (John 1:12). Now, if He chooses not to grant the same for those who do not want to believe, this cannot be attributed as being partial (Rom 2:11; Eph 6:9). Partiality can only be attributed if He broke His will for the unbelieving and granted them eternal life, which would disregard His will.

Therefore concerning the controlling-factor of God (the crux of this article), everyone is an active subject of His will, but not an active subject of His desire!

-NC

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The matter is very simple. God truly is Omniscient, knowing all things. Yet, did He not create each of us with 'free will' to make our 'own' choice to be with Him or not for His Eternity?

If He already knows who will believe and who won't, then WHY is the receiving of His Gospel Salvation DEPENDENT upon those who believe???
Gal 3:22
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
(KJV)

Man's fleshy reasoning of our Heavenly Father's Divine Omniscient Nature causes such consternations against His Word, because that kind of reasoning isn't able to really understand His Ways.


The evidence of Scripture of each's free will choice of Faith on His Promised Saviour reveals God is not sitting back with knowing who is going to believe and who is not. If that were so then that Faith would have no purpose today, likewise free will.

The following Scripture reveals why that is...
Isa 65:17-19
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in My people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
(KJV)

Nahum 1:8-10
8 But with an overrunning flood He will make an utter end of the place thereof, and darkness shall pursue His enemies.
9 What do ye imagine against the LORD? He will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time.
10 For while they be folden together as thorns, and while they are drunken as drunkards, they shall be devoured as stubble fully dry.
(KJV)

How will there not be a second rebellion like what Satan did against Him in the time of old which caused this present world of sin?

Simple, sin, evil, Satan, and those who follow him will be destroyed, like thorns devoured as dry stubble in the fire.

But those who accept Him and His Son through Faith, will be made a new creation for His Eternity. The former things of this world won't even come to our minds! It will be as if this present world of sin was but a short pause in God's eternal hourglass.

By choosing Him, we also choose to be re-made by Him (thus Apostle Paul's descriptive of being made a "new creature" in Christ Jesus). THIS is why God allows each his/her own free will for this present world so as to make our own choice. Otherwise our love to Him would not be real, we'd be nothing more than robots without the gift to think and choose for ourselves. Also, those who will perish would not be making their own free will choice in refusing Him. Our love to Him and His Son must be by our own free will for it to mean something.

NetChaplain said:

I agree, each makes their own choice (Deu 30:19), but I do not it's independent of the Father's drawing (John 6:44), for man in his own nature cannot desire, nor live for God according to His will; man's nature cannot comply with the Holy Spirit, which is how a believer can comply (Phil 2:13), for his nature opposes God and he cannot truly desire Him apart from the Spirit (Gal 5:17).

Even though God foreknows all who will live or perish, all things must still transpire to be a testament to the saved, or as evidence to the lost.

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Uh, that's basically Calvinist doctrine. I'm not a Calvinist.

Even during Christ's future Millennium reign some are going to believe on Him then.

You're thinking may apply to Christ's very elect though, those whom He chose and not just called only.

Did God foreknow that man (Adam) would sin ? No. How can we know this ? Simply by understanding that our Creator, Jehovah God placed before Adam (and later Eve) a test, telling them: "From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as for the tree of knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die."(Gen 2:17)

Right after Adam and Eve had been created at the end of the 6th "creative" day, bringing God's creative works concerning the earth to a completion, the Genesis account now says: "After that God saw everything he had made and, look ! it was very good. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a sixth day."(Gen 1:31) There was no flaw anywhere.

Could God have considered his creative works on the earth as "very good" if he foreknew that Adam and Eve would rebel ? Would teachers give a test to their students or would a company test a product if they already knew in advance that it would fail ? Is not the purpose of a test to establish whether a student of a product will pass the standards set ?

If a doctor gives you a medication that he knew in advance would cause serious injury or kill you, would he be innocent ? If at a tirestore, you had a tire changed on your car that the man who replaced it knew full well that the tire would blow out and cause the car to flip over, would he be blameless ?

Let's look at an example in the Bible. At Genesis 18, three angels come to Abraham on their way to the region of Sodom and Gomorrah where his nephew Lot resides, having heard about the area ' committing fornication excessively and going after flesh for unnatural use'.(Jude 7)

Then at Genesis 18:20, 21, it says: "Consequently Jehovah said: "The cry of complaint about Sodom and Gomorrah, yes, it is loud, and their sin, yes, it is very heavy. I am quite determined to go down that I may see whether they act altogether according to ther outcry over it that has come to me, and, if not, I can get to know it." If God knows all things, then why did he have to examine as to whether or not what he had heard was true ?

Jehovah God's capableness of knowing something can be likened to a muscular man, say capable of carrying around 400 pounds. But just because he is capable, does he need to carry around 400 pounds everywhere he goes or pick it up only when necessary ?

God has the capability to look into the future, at his discretion, to use his power of foreknowledge as he wishes, selectively. However, he has no need to know everything about everybody, but allows a gift that he gave to all mankind to come forward, the gift of free will, the ability to choose what our future holds, what course we will take, which Adam and Eve exercised.

Jehovah God does not twist arms, but allows us, including Adam and Eve, to make their own decisions. Sadly, both Adam and Eve and the rebel angel that was later named as Satan (Rev 12:9), chose to mutinize against Jehovah's authority, setting motion all the devastating and cataclysmic problems that has plagued mankind since the Garden of Eden.

In using his foreknowledge, God gave insight into his everlasting purpose, through the pages of the Bible, such as at Genesis 3:15, laying the foundation to remove everything bad that resulted from Adam's sin in the Garden of Eden.

Here, it shows that the "seed" of the "woman" would deal a death blow to the "serpent", ' bruising him in the head', and that "enmity" or hatred would be established between the ' seed of the woman' and ' seed of the serpent'. Hence, there are only two organizations in existence, Jehovah's and Satan's, and of which until Satan and his followers are done away, there will be an ongoing battle of "enmity" between the two.

Who is the ' woman's seed ' ? Some 4,000 years later, it was revealed as Jesus Christ as the primary "seed", but others would also be counted as such (Gal 3:16; Isa 54:1-8), that would number 144,000 (Rev 7:4; 14:1), these becoming "sons of the kingdom".(Matt 13:38)

Who is the "woman" ? Neither Eve nor Mary, but rather the body of loyal angels from which Jesus came. And who is the "serpent" ? Satan. And who is his "seed" ? All those who follow Satan and thus reject Jehovah's rulership over them. These are to be destroyed, along with Satan.(Ps 110:1; Luke 19:27; Rev 20:7-10)

NetChaplain said:

Hi GM - Thanks for your very inquiring reply and I understand your reasoning, but there is no basis to derive any reason without establishing that God is omniscient.

Concerning your comment, man tests man to learn something, but God tests man to show him something, because He already knows everything and has never had to learn anything.

Though there are a few Scriptures that may have an apparent basis which seems to refute this, the misunderstanding of them will result in confusion if any comprehension of such conflicts with the meaning of omniscience.

God's blessings to your Family!

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Many feel, as you do, that God knew in advance that Adam and Eve would sin. But this is contrary to him placing a test before both, for had he had foreknown that they would rebel, then a test would have been unnecessary and it would have been God that has set in motion all the woes and troubles with the resulting consequences of mankind's corruption and wickedness that is so abundantly prevalent today, that came as a result of Adam's rebellion. Elihu, in correcting Job, said that "for a fact, God himself does not act wickedly."(Job 34:12)


Just because a man can run say 21 miles per hour, does he need to be constantly running at this speed or only when necessary ? Or of a man who can easily pick up 400 pounds, does he need to be carrying around 400 pounds every minute of every day ? This would be unreasonable.


Had God foreknew that the first human couple was going to rebel, then why make them at all ? Would you put a defective product on your car, knowing full well that in driving the car, it was going to fail and perhaps cost you your life ? Is God any different ? Adam and Eve were fully aware of God's instructions regarding the "tree of knowledge of good and bad", for Adam had told Eve, who in turn, told the "serpent" Satan.(Rev 12:10)


Thus, God did not use his power to foresee the outcome regarding Adam and Eve, but rather created them with the capacity of choice and put a test before them (just as we all have and are allowed to to choose our direction in life) see whether or not they would obey one simple command.(Gen 2:17)


When God made Adam and Eve, he formed them with a conscience, intentionally with the agency of freedom of choice, whereby they can choose to do bad (which so many people throughout history has done) or choose to follow God's instructions (which so few have done).


At Deuteronomy 30, Moses tells the nation of Israel: "I do take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you today, that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the malediction; and you must choose life in order that you may keep alive, you and your offspring, by loving Jehovah your God, by listening to his voice and by sticking to him."(Deut 30:19, 20) If God foreknew what each individual of the Israelites would do, would he have put a choice before them ?


Otherwise, we are nothing more than a robot. Likewise, of the angels that left God's heavenly presence to follow Satan.(Luke 11:14-20) These were also free moral agents and chose for themselves not to remain with God. God did not use his capability to foresee the rebellion of myriads of angels (Rev 12:4), did he, but took appropriate action when they rejected his sovereignty.(Gen 3:15; Jude 6)


Why would God put "life's water free" (Rev 22:17) before everyone if he already knew who would be bad and who would be good ? Why is Jesus, in the near future, to be judge of "all the nations" in order to "separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats", putting "the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left" (Matt 25:32) if God already knows who are "sheep" and who are "goats" ?

Does not this indicate that Jehovah has left all judging to Jesus (John 5:22) and does not know in advance who will be loyal and who will reject his sovereignty until Jesus judges the "nations" as such ? Otherwise, why is Jesus judging at all ?


Hence, Jehovah uses his capability of foreknowledge selectively, only as he wishes, to reveal what the future holds, as is seen in such books as of Isaiah, Daniel, Ezekiel, as well as Revelation, to name a few.