Daniel 12: 11

I think you have it right. The 1290 days is 3.5 years, the time of great tribulation. It begins with the arrival of the anti-Christ and concludes when we see the anti-Christ (Desolator) sitting where he ought not, in the holy place. That's how I understand it.

Hi Guy,

What you have spoke about is not your ideas, it is what we have been taught for years by others, and it is wrong.

Please hear me out.

1. Why do Christians think the tribulation is for us?

2. Name one book in the New Testament addressed to us?

a. The Old Testament was written to the Jews.
b. The Four Gospels were about Jesus dealing with the Jews.
1. He was their Messiah, you know.
c. The letters in the Epistles and the Book of Revelation are addressed to the early Churches who existed in the Apostles generation.

3. Where is the scripture that the anti-christ is to come in our generation.

Why do Christians take the word of man over the Word of God? I ask this because you or no one else will be able to find one book addressed to our generation. When I write a letter addressed to my family, it would only be information to you if you read it. Same with the bible.

Some things can pertain to us as well as other generations. That would be earthquakes, wars, and the fact people will hate us for Jesus’ namesake, etc.

Study God’s word and:

Be blessed.

BTW Read the books ‘The Wars of the Jews” and you will find the tribulation happened in Jerusalem prior to 70 AD.

Once I did a study in the first six usages of tamiyd in all the tamiyd-continual holy things beginning with Shewbread.
The Shewbread continues shewing new revelations to me with every revolution.

Here is my thought:

The "abomination which causes desolation" is the crucifixion of Jesus. In Daniel 9, it is shown that the coming of the Anointed One will occur after 7 sevens and 62 sevens (69 weeks). The Anointed One comes and confirms a covenant for one seven. Halfway through that seven he puts an end to sacrifice and offering (3.5 year ministry of Jesus which ends in his crucifixion that puts an end to sacrifice and is the "abomination which causes desolation.") It was the murder of Jesus that brought destruction upon Jerusalem and caused its desolation (Matt. 21:40-42) as well as brought an end to sacrifice (Heb. 10:11-12).

Revelation works off of Daniel's revelations and the "church age" is portrayed as a symbolic 3.5 year period (Rev. 11:3; Rev. 12:6). I believe it is an error to add these 3.5 year periods to create a 7 year future tribulation. According to Revelation 12:6, the 1260 days begins immediately after Jesus is "snatched up" to heaven. There is nothing to indicate a "gap" between the weeks of Daniel. Moreover, Revelation is not written chronologically. Like Daniel's visions, it is a series of visions that see the same events in increasingly traumatic imagery and from different perspectives.

guysmith said:

I am looking for some input on Dan 12:11.

According to some English translations the 1290 days begins with the elimination of "daily sacrifices" and concludes with the AC being "setup".

Every study I have done or found points to the elimination of the "daily sacrifices" at the same time the AC is "setup".

If the translations are correct and the vision begins with the elimination of the "daily sacrifices" and concludes with the AC being "setup" 1290 days later, then this would imply that the Tribulation period begins with the taking away of the "daily sacrifices".

Assuming the "daily sacrifices" and the "setup" do take place at the same time, then that Dan 12:11 is only describing the events which conclude the 1290 days with no description of any event starting the 1290 days. This has been my understanding.

Input please.

Guy

Click to expand...

Daniel 12:11
11And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.


The abomination takes place 30 days before the start of the great tribulation which lasts 1260 days.

Jesus warned the Jews to run when it happened. That will give the Jews that listen to Jesus a 30 day head start fleeing!

Shalom, Eric.

Eric E Stahl said:

Daniel 12:11
11And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.


The abomination takes place 30 days before the start of the great tribulation which lasts 1260 days.

Jesus warned the Jews to run when it happened. That will give the Jews that listen to Jesus a 30 day head start fleeing!

Click to expand...

Ever hear the statement, "Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it"? Well, for the understanding of Bible prophecy, there's a corollary:

"Those who don't learn the fulfillment of prophecy in history THINK they are doomed to repeat it!"

Yeshua`s (Jesus') warning to the Jews to run was for THOSE TO WHOM HE WAS TALKING THAT DAY! This time for them to run was fulfilled in the first century A.D! It was the beginning of the "tribulation" (Greek: thlipsis = "pressure; distress") that continues through today! It will continue to hound the Jews, believing or otherwise, until they can finally say, "Baruwkh haba' b-shem YHWH." It was translated as "Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the LORD," but it means "Welcome, Comer with the authority of YHWH." (Matthew 23:37-39; Psalm 118:26) That won't happen until the leaders of the Jews, the elders of Y'hudah or Judah, admit that Yeshua` is God's Messiah. When that happens, then Yeshua` will return and not before.

Why is it that there is the mention of Daniel 12:11, but no ones considers the whole verse (as well as the whole chapter that sets the time sequence and tone), that says: "And from the time the constant feature (literally "continual sacrifice") has been removed and the disgusting thing that cause desolation has been put in place, there will be 1,290 days" ?

Daniel 12:9, 10 says that Daniel was told that "the words are to be kept sealed up until the time of the end" and that "many will whiten themselves (becoming morally and spiritually clean, removing the shackles of false religion) and will be refined (those unclean from Jehovah's standpoint are removed and righteous ones remaining). And the wicked ones will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand; but those having insight will understand." Many will thus jump around trying to unlock the mystery of the book of Daniel, but will not be able.

So, what is the "constant feature" that was removed and when did it happen ? What is "the disgusting thing (from the standpoint of Jehovah's pure worship) that causes desolation" (that comes to life during "the time of the end", Dan 11:40; 12:9), that to the point of it being "put in place (of the constant feature), there will be 1,290 days" ? And also of note, though some try to bring in the "AC (anti-christ)", neither Daniel 12 nor any of Daniel has necessarily anything to do with what is called the "anti-christ".

The apostle John said very clearly: "Young children, it is the last hour (before the dramatic growth of apostasty), and just as you have heard that the antichrist (meaning "of or instead of Christ") is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared, from which fact we know that it is the last hour."(1 John 2:18)

Hence the antichrist is not one specific person, but rather an array of individuals that begin teaching lies that began to grow exponentially after the death of the apostles (Matt 13:25, "while men were sleeping"), that "turn away (people) from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories."(2 Tim 4:4)

Paul called a group of these as "the man of lawlessness" (2 Thess 2:3, 4), the religious leaders of Christendom. John recognized that Jesus illustration of the "wheat (genuine Christians) and the weeds (counterfeit Christians)" at Matthew 13:24-30 was now coming true. He understood that the foretold apostasy was now beginning to flourish and would grow many-fold after his death.

Of the "constant feature", it is also seen at Daniel 11:31, whereby it is replaced with "the disgusting thing that causes desolation." Too, at Daniel 8:11, after the ' small horn ' (Dan 8:9, Britain-America, as the "seventh king", Rev 17:10) "puts on great airs"(by persecuting the "holy ones"), this ' small horn ' takes from the "Prince of the army "(Jehovah God) the "constant feature", "the established place of his sanctuary was thrown down"(Dan 8:11b) or the "constant" devotion ("fruit of lips", Heb 13:15) by Jehovah 's people especially during "the time of the end", most notably during war time.(Dan 11:40, "time of the end", beginning in 1914 with Jesus installation as king of God's kingdom down through "the great tribulation" in the near future, Matt 24:21)

At Daniel 8:12, it says that "an army" (the "holy ones" as a group) as well as "the constant feature" (continual sacrifice) was "given over" to the ' small horn ' or Anglo-American dual world power during World War II, "throwing truth to the earth, and it acted and had success." Many of the "holy ones" or those "sealed....with the promised holy spirit" (Eph 1:13) to serve as "kings and priests"(Rev 1:6) were put in prison, "throwing truth to the earth", having success.

The "disgusting thing that causes desolation" (Matt 24:15) was initially the Roman armies (under the command of Cestius Gallus) in the 1st century who during the Jewish revolt in 66 C.E. went right up to the temple wall against Jewish Zealots ("standing in a holy place", Matt 24:15), undermining the temple wall (a disgusting thing for any Gentile to enter the temple premises, Acts 21:28)

However, in this "time of the end" (or "during that time", Dan 12:1), the "disgusting thing that causes desolation" was initially the League of Nations, which later reemerged as the United Nations in 1945 that ' ascended out of the abyss [deathlike state in 1939] '.(Rev 17:8)

The League of Nations was proposed in January 1919, but in December 1918, the body now known as the National Council of Churches gave impetus to this political arrangement, seeing it as a substitute for God's kingdom, saying: "Such a League is not a mere political expedient; it is rather the political expression of the Kingdom of God on earth.....The League is rooted in the Gospel. Like the Gospel, its objective is ' peace on earth, good-will toward men.' "

This is disgusting in God's sight, being "put in place" of the “constant feature”, the “continual sacrifice” or “fruit of lips” (Heb 13:15) that was being offered by the “holy ones”. Jesus said succinctly: “For what is considered exalted by men is a disgusting thing in God’s sight.”(Luke 16:15) For the churches to place the League of Nations (and later the United Nations) as “the political expression of the Kingdom of God on earth” is indeed disgusting to Jehovah God.

guysmith said:

I am looking for some input on Dan 12:11.

According to some English translations the 1290 days begins with the elimination of "daily sacrifices" and concludes with the AC being "setup".

Every study I have done or found points to the elimination of the "daily sacrifices" at the same time the AC is "setup".

If the translations are correct and the vision begins with the elimination of the "daily sacrifices" and concludes with the AC being "setup" 1290 days later, then this would imply that the Tribulation period begins with the taking away of the "daily sacrifices".

Assuming the "daily sacrifices" and the "setup" do take place at the same time, then that Dan 12:11 is only describing the events which conclude the 1290 days with no description of any event starting the 1290 days. This has been my understanding.

Input please.

Guy

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http://www.levendwater.org/companion/append90.html

<-------1260------->
<--------1290-------->
<---------1335--------->

It might be easier to explain by including the other two numbers from Daniel 12. All three time periods are in real days. Don't let anyone tell you they are in years. All three time periods share the same day one. They all 3 start on the same day.

1260 marks a start point and an ending point of specific conditions during the Time of The End. This is the time the two witnesses will operate, saints will be persecuted and 144,000 will preach the Gospel to the world.

1290 marks the end of something good on day 1 then the start of something bad on the 1290 th. day.

1335 is the full duration of the Great Tribulation or Time of The End.

The 1290 days are tricky to understand for a number of reasons.

Reason #1: "the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand"
As I read around the net I'm amazed at all the far fetched theories about Daniel 12. Even the SDA general conference has papers with these days changed to years.

Reason #2 "the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end".
9 out of 10 Christians might believe we are living in "the last days". I will suggest we are very close but until the Biblically defined Time of The End begins Daniel remains sealed.

Reason #3 "the daily sacrifice"
I read that the word [sacrifice] was inserted by the translators. The original text just read "the daily". Imagine that this daily service is not even in a temple on earth but in Heavens Temple.
Remember Hebrews 8:
Now the point in what we are saying is this: we have such a high priest, one who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, 2 a minister in the holy places, in the true tent that the Lord set up, not man. 3 For every high priest is appointed to offer gifts and sacrifices; thus it is necessary for this priest also to have something to offer.
What if Jesus performing this daily service in Heavens Temple is the only thing keeping God's Wrath from breaking out on our planet? When the daily is taken away the great tribulation begins with the censor cast down from Revelation 8:
Then the angel took the censer and filled it with fire from the altar and threw it on the earth, and there were peals of thunder, rumblings, flashes of lightning, and an earthquake.

Reason #4 The abomination of desolation.
There are 2 major abomination of desolations. In Matt. 24 Jesus was talking about the abomination of desolation from Daniel 9: "And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed." This was the destruction of Jerusalem and The Temple in 70 AD. The abomination of desolation # 2 on the 1290th. day will be a future event 45 days before our lord's return. Probably The Antichrist ordering "death to the saints" which you can think of as a virtual Holy City.

davewatchman said:

<-------1260------->
<--------1290-------->
<---------1335--------->

It might be easier to explain by including the other two numbers from Daniel 12. All three time periods are in real days. Don't let anyone tell you they are in years. All three time periods share the same day one. They all 3 start on the same day.

Click to expand...

The total period of Daniel's "one week" (or one seven) is 2520 days. The first 1260 days period begins with a period of 220 days per Dan.8:14, 1040 days remaining until the daily sacrifices are ended and the abomination setup at the middle of the 2520 days. The 2300 days of Dan.8:14 ends with the time of cleansing, so from the start of the cleansing at Christ's return back leaves a period of 220 days, dividing the first 1260 days into two periods (220 + 1040).

<--pact made?><temple/sacrifices><sacrifices end/AOD setup><tribulation><-cleansing-><-established->
<-----220-------><-----1040----------><-------------middle-----------><----1260-><------30-----><------45-------->
<-----prep for false messiah--------><-----vile person/false Christ reigns-----><--Christ's return--------------
<-----220-------><-------------------2300 days of Dan.8:14------------------------>
<---------------------------------------"one week"/2520 days------------------------->

Thus the 1290 and 1335 periods are extensions of 30 and 45 days past the last 1260 day period. The 30 days after the tribulation and defeat of the vile person may be in order to seal his defeat and bring the Milennium Sanctuary of Ezek.40-47.

davewatchman said:

Reason #1: "the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand"
As I read around the net I'm amazed at all the far fetched theories about Daniel 12. Even the SDA general conference has papers with these days changed to years.

Click to expand...

Agree.

davewatchman said:

Reason #2 "the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end".
9 out of 10 Christians might believe we are living in "the last days". I will suggest we are very close but until the Biblically defined Time of The End begins Daniel remains sealed.

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I do not agree. We are near the time of the end, and the wise should be able to understand these events given in Daniel, as our Lord Jesus reiterated them within His Book of Revelation about the end. But I agree the final "one week" of Daniel has not yet begun today, but very near, in our lifetime.

davewatchman said:

Reason #3 "the daily sacrifice"
I read that the word [sacrifice] was inserted by the translators. The original text just read "the daily". Imagine that this daily service is not even in a temple on earth but in Heavens Temple.
Remember Hebrews 8:
Now the point in what we are saying is this: we have such a high priest, one who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, 2 a minister in the holy places, in the true tent that the Lord set up, not man. 3 For every high priest is appointed to offer gifts and sacrifices; thus it is necessary for this priest also to have something to offer.
What if Jesus performing this daily service in Heavens Temple is the only thing keeping God's Wrath from breaking out on our planet? When the daily is taken away the great tribulation begins with the censor cast down from Revelation 8:
Then the angel took the censer and filled it with fire from the altar and threw it on the earth, and there were peals of thunder, rumblings, flashes of lightning, and an earthquake.

Click to expand...

In Dan.9:27 the word for sacrifice is there which event is associated in Dan.8 & 11, so there's no mistaking that subject. Furthermore, we have the historical example of Antiochus IV concerning the end of the daily sacrifices and placing of an abomination idol instead, in 165-170 B.C. Yet Christ referred to the abomination of desolation from Daniel for a future time in Matt.24, an act which the Romans in 70 A.D. never did.

davewatchman said:

Reason #4 The abomination of desolation.
There are 2 major abomination of desolations. In Matt. 24 Jesus was talking about the abomination of desolation from Daniel 9: "And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed." This was the destruction of Jerusalem and The Temple in 70 AD. The abomination of desolation # 2 on the 1290th. day will be a future event 45 days before our lord's return. Probably The Antichrist ordering "death to the saints" which you can think of as a virtual Holy City.

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Jerusalem has been sieged something like 27 times in its history. More than once it has gone under the control of paganism. What Antiochus IV did was specific to the abomination of desolation act though. That's the only one that comes close to the Daniel prophecy so far. Yet, Christ warned of the abomination of desolation from Daniel coming long after Antiochus IV had already been dead, meaning, look for another.

The Romans in 70 A.D. tried to sieze control of the 2nd temple in Jerusalem, but it burned before they could get control of it. They did not fulfill the abomination of desolation events. It means, look for another. They did destroy the city and the temple, which is where Dan.9:26 points. But the flood metaphor in the last part of Dan.9:26 is in relation to the false one coming in as a flood per the OT prophets like Isaiah. This metaphor our Lord Jesus referred to in Rev.12 about the dragon and serpent, with the waters as a flood coming out of his mouth. Thus the war mentioned there is about the war against the saints during the tribulation period of 1260 days, a la Rev.13:3-10.

Shalom, veteran, davewatchman, and Guestman.

House of cards, gentlemen, house of cards! Why discuss the particulars when you don't have the right premises upon which those particulars depend? The numbers to which you refer in Daniel 12 go back to the desecration of the Temple performed by the Seleucid king Antiochus IV "Epiphanes" in Daniel 11. They, too, ARE ALREADY FULFILLED! You're "chasing after the wind" and "barking up the wrong tree!"

Retrobyter said:

Shalom, veteran, davewatchman, and Guestman.

House of cards, gentlemen, house of cards! Why discuss the particulars when you don't have the right premises upon which those particulars depend? The numbers to which you refer in Daniel 12 go back to the desecration of the Temple performed by the Seleucid king Antiochus IV "Epiphanes" in Daniel 11. They, too, ARE ALREADY FULFILLED! You're "chasing after the wind" and "barking up the wrong tree!"

Click to expand...

In Matthew 24 and Mark 13, Jesus warned of a coming "abomination of desolation" event in the temple at Jerusalem.

When did Jesus give that warning? Approximately 26-29 A.D.

When did Antiochus IV end the daily sacrifices in Jerusalem and setup an idol abomination inside the 2nd temple in Jerusalem? Approximately 170 B.C.

Thus Antiochus IV had already been DEAD for over 60 years when Jesus gave the warning from the Book of Daniel about a coming "abomination of desolation".


I can well understand why orthodox Jews in Jerusalem would be against Christ's warning of the "abomination of desolation" idol that is set to occur at the end of this world in Jerusalem prior to His return. Those same Jews have the materials ready to build a third temple in Jerusalem today, and they want ALL... the world to recognize that future temple as God's temple on earth, and come worship there. And they plan in earnest to worship the True Messiah there, which is Who they think they are preparing that future temple for.

But I cannot understand why anyone who proclaims Jesus of Nazareth as Messiah, God's promised Saviour, and their Saviour with believing on Him, how they could be duped into supporting the aim of those orthodox unbelieving Jews and their plans for a third temple and sacrifices who still reject Christ Jesus today. To be aligned with those orthodox unbelieving Jews today is to be deceived into wrongly worshipping the future false messiah that comes first, prior to our Lord Jesus' return, as per the warning He gave and by His Apostles warnings about it also.

Shalom, veteran.

No, Yeshua`s words were NOT quoting from Daniel 11:31 but from Daniel 9:27! And, that had to do with the RESULT of the desolation that their rejection of the King brought upon themselves when Yeshua left them "DESOLATE" in Matthew 23:38! The culmination of that desolation resulted in the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 A.D about 40 years after He left them "DESOLATE!"

I keep putting up the wall between the two and you keep crashing through it!

It's really very simple:

Daniel 11:31 --> Antiochus IV (170 B.C.) || Daniel 9:27 --> Desolation (29 A.D.) --> Destruction of Temple (70 A.D.)

Don't cross the wall (||)! Yeshua`s prophecy in Matthew 24, 25; Mark 13; and Luke 21 is about the RIGHT-HAND SIDE, NOT the LEFT!

Shabbat shalom, veteran.

veteran said:

The way I see it, the interpretation of Dan.9:27 being about Christ ending the daily sacrifice and causing the abomination of that verse, is in itself an abominable interpretation against Him. And the setting up of an idol abomination IS... included in that Dan.9:27 passage. In that respect the SDA doctrines of men have really twisted that Scripture and have deceived many of its members.
Dan 9:27
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
(KJV)

That part in bold red is about the setting up of an abomination idol, and Christ Jesus supposedly did that? God forbid! But that is exactly the craziness of interpretation some have made with wrongly assigning Christ as the one that does those things in that verse.

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Time to check your glasses! What I SAID was that the Scribes and Pharisees were the ones who overspread their abominations among the Hebrews in Yeshua`s lifetime! It was BECAUSE of that overspreading that Yeshua` made it (the city) "desolate!"

Furthermore, just because a particular word is used that MAY refer to an idol or idols doesn't mean that it is indeed talking about idolatry! There are other things that are JUST as filthy and disgusting as an idol - the rejection of God's Messiah, for instance!

Again, I want to remind all forum participants of this site's rule against insults.

No insults allowed. This rule will be strictly enforced. This community has a core set of beliefs that we clearly state at multiple locations on this website. However, we recognize that unity in Christ is the ultimate aim and this can be achieved even when there is disagreement on doctrinal issues. A good way to avoid this issue is to focus on the doctrine and not the person. This, of course, includes any kind of insults based on race or beliefs.

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It is an insult to claim that another participant is deliberately trying to mislead others just because the other participant does not agree with one's own interpretation of the Bible. Nobody here is the final authority on how to interpret the Bible.

In its Statement of Faith, this site defines what are the closed-handed doctrines that this site's Christian participants are expected to conform to.

If you believe that another Christian participant is saying something that conflicts with the above-mentioned close-handed doctrines, then report that person to the site's staff.

Retrobyter said:

Shalom, veteran.

No, Yeshua`s words were NOT quoting from Daniel 11:31 but from Daniel 9:27! And, that had to do with the RESULT of the desolation that their rejection of the King brought upon themselves when Yeshua left them "DESOLATE" in Matthew 23:38! The culmination of that desolation resulted in the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 A.D about 40 years after He left them "DESOLATE!"

I keep putting up the wall between the two and you keep crashing through it!

It's really very simple:

Daniel 11:31 --> Antiochus IV (170 B.C.) || Daniel 9:27 --> Desolation (29 A.D.) --> Destruction of Temple (70 A.D.)

Don't cross the wall (||)! Yeshua`s prophecy in Matthew 24, 25; Mark 13; and Luke 21 is about the RIGHT-HAND SIDE, NOT the LEFT!

Click to expand...

The specific Dan.9:27 verse of what one there does is the overspreading of abominations, which is the very same matter spoken of throughout Daniel, the transgression of Dan.8 and the placing of an abomination idol in Dan.11, and the same idea at the end of Dan.12 telling us that event is for the end of this world...

Dan 12:9-13
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.
(KJV)

That is placing that abomination of desolation event at the end. So it is with the Dan.8 Scripture also...

Dan 8:9-17
9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.
16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.
17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.
(KJV)

For "... at the time of the end shall be the vision," the angel Gabriel told Daniel. That's about the end of this world, not 70 A.D.

And that is the very same event mentioned in Dan.9:27 about the overspreading of abominations. That is NOT Christ Jesus who does that, it is the coming pseudo Christ which Jesus warned of in Matt.24 and Mark 13. It is the "another beast" of Rev.13 who sets up the "image of the beast" for all to worship at the end of this world. And that is what Christ was warning about in Matthew 24 with the "abomination of desolation".

Furthermore, the meaning of 'desolation' per Christ's phrase "abomination of desolation" from the Book of Daniel is about the temple being made SPIRITUALLY DESOLATE by the placing of an idol in false worship inside it. That is... the "holy place" Christ warned of that when you see the abomination of desolation. That desolation idea does NOT mean the Romans destroying Jerusalem and the temple in 70 A.D.

And also, especially since Daniel and his fellows saw the king of Babylon setup a gold idol image of himself for all to bow to in false worship, that represents what is to occur when the false one of Rev.13 sets up the "image of the beast" at the end of this present world. That is what all those Daniel 8, 9, 11, and 12 Scriptures are covering about the "abomination of desolation".

guysmith said:

I am looking for some input on Dan 12:11.

According to some English translations the 1290 days begins with the elimination of "daily sacrifices" and concludes with the AC being "setup".

Every study I have done or found points to the elimination of the "daily sacrifices" at the same time the AC is "setup".

If the translations are correct and the vision begins with the elimination of the "daily sacrifices" and concludes with the AC being "setup" 1290 days later, then this would imply that the Tribulation period begins with the taking away of the "daily sacrifices".

Assuming the "daily sacrifices" and the "setup" do take place at the same time, then that Dan 12:11 is only describing the events which conclude the 1290 days with no description of any event starting the 1290 days. This has been my understanding.

Input please.

Guy

Click to expand...

Hi GuySmith,

One of the problems with understanding any verse is the context of the other prophecies. And where many assert their false ancient-interpretations (and thereby false end-time-associations) Scripture and history would demand that the prophecies are modern, as provided by the angelic instructions that the book is end-time.

So to preface your question, I would merely suggest that all assertions of a seven-year tribulation are based upon an incorrect association of Daniel 9, and that Rev. 13:5 provides the correct 42 month duration (calculated to either 1,260 historical Jewish calendar, or 1,278 for a modern calendar). Thus there is no establishment of the a/c at the falsely taught mid-tribulation (1,290 days) as it appears you are contemplating.

Toward this, Rev. 13:5 appears to ascribe Christ's angelic army going forth at 1,260/1,278 days; the Daniel 12/Rev. 6 cataclysim at 1,290 days, (i.e., nuclear holocaust); and the subsequent threat to human existence until the 1,335 days.

Please note:
1. The Daniel 8, 2,300 days, has NOTHING to do with Christ's return, but is assigned to an altogether different event.
2. I would be glad to defend how/why the Daniel 9 seventieth week is NOT a tribulation event.


With Best Regards,
DaDad

DaDad said:

Hi GuySmith,

One of the problems with understanding any verse is the context of the other prophecies. And where many assert their false ancient-interpretations (and thereby false end-time-associations) Scripture and history would demand that the prophecies are modern, as provided by the angelic instructions that the book is end-time.

So to preface your question, I would merely suggest that all assertions of a seven-year tribulation are based upon an incorrect association of Daniel 9, and that Rev. 13:5 provides the correct 42 month duration (calculated to either 1,260 historical Jewish calendar, or 1,278 for a modern calendar). Thus there is no establishment of the a/c at the falsely taught mid-tribulation (1,290 days) as it appears you are contemplating.

Toward this, Rev. 13:5 appears to ascribe Christ's angelic army going forth at 1,260/1,278 days; the Daniel 12/Rev. 6 cataclysim at 1,290 days, (i.e., nuclear holocaust); and the subsequent threat to human existence until the 1,335 days.

Please note:
1. The Daniel 8, 2,300 days, has NOTHING to do with Christ's return, but is assigned to an altogether different event.
2. I would be glad to defend how/why the Daniel 9 seventieth week is NOT a tribulation event.


With Best Regards,
DaDad

Click to expand...

You are wrong, simply.

Dan 9:24
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
(KJV)

The prophetic events Daniel was given for Jerusalem and her people span a period of seventy sevens or "seventy weeks" per how the KJV translators brought into English.

So it is about a very SPECIFIC AMOUNT of time, with what final event being the finish of the period?? It is that part above in bold red, the final event being the anointing of the most holy, which is in regards to the cleansing of the sanctuary per Dan.8:14.

You said there was no such Scripture connection between Christ's return and that final event, and of course, you are wrong as I just proved by those two Scriptures.

Dan 9:27
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
(KJV)

You are also... very wrong about there being no such thing as a that one seven ("one week") which equals a period of 7 years per the whole 70 weeks prophecy. And since the "seventy weeks" is a SPECIFIC AMOUNT of time pointing to years with Dan.9:25-26, that REQUIRES that "one week" to represent a period of 7 years also.

Thus per your wrong reckoning the whole "seventy weeks" would equal only 69 1/2 weeks instead of the full 70 as given Daniel. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out. It's simple math.

The reason why 'some' doctrines of men DENY the total 7 years period ("one week") of Dan.9:27 in favor of only... the last half of 1260 days, is because... they purposefully DENY the idea of that false one of Dan.9:27 that will end the daily sacrifices and place the abomination that makes desolate in Jerusalem, just PRIOR to Christ's second coming!

In other words, since the coming pseuod-Christ is coming to Jerusalem first, prior to Christ Jesus' return and gathering of His Church, Satan's workers do NOT want people to understand that timing. Thus the doctrine of men that refuses to recognize the events the coming false one will do in the FIRST half of the "one week" (first 1260 days), and then ending sacrifices and setting up the abomination idol in Jerusalem in the midst of the week like Dan.9:27 points.

In Summary:

The great tribulation our Lord Jesus forewarned us of for the end involves a total period of 7 years, not only 1260 days.

There is a 1260 day period prior to the "midst of the week" of Dan.9:27, and then another 1260 days after that, totaling to make "one week", the final period Daniel was given in Dan.9:27.

A peace pact for Jerusalem is to be made within the first half or first 1260 days of the 7 years.

After the first 1260 day period, the false one is to end the daily sacrifices in Jerusalem and place the abomination of desolation idol in its stead and demand all worship it.

The latter 1260 days half is when the real time of tribulation upon Christ's saints will begin with the setting up of that idol in false worship. It is this specific event that is comparing Daniel's days of pagan Babylon with the final endtime Babylon of Revelation and thus the "image of the beast" of Revelation 13:15.

Revelation 12 and Daniel 12


At the middle of the 7 year tribulation Michael and the good angels cast the devil and the bad angels to the earth. Then Michael comes down to earth and stands for Israel on earth till the end of the great tribulation.




Revelation 12:7-17
7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe (3rd mid trib) to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time (1260 days), from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


Daniel 12:1-13
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
5 Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.
6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?
7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half (1260 days); and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.
8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.


11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, [SIZE=12pt]and [/SIZE]the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. ( This happens 30 days before the devil is cast to the earth and the great persecution begins spoken of in Matthew 24:15-27)



12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. (Matthew 25:31-46 judgment of the sheep and the goats after the tribulation)

13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.