The Word is Truth to All That Believe

Rocky Wiley · Oct 29, 2013

Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

To come to a more complete understanding one must read and understand the above scripture first.

‘all’ pas - apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole

written - put in print

law of Moses, etc - what we call the Old Testament

All prophecy about Jesus includes the endtime and judgment. This is what he told the Jews while here on earth many times when he said “this generation” etc, meaning their generation.

When the disciples understood the above:

Luk 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Angelina · Oct 29, 2013

I doubt that you will find many preterists on this forum as most are pre, mid or post tribbers - meaning; that they all believe in a future GT based on the word of God... :huh:

Shalom!

Rocky Wiley · Oct 29, 2013

Angelina said:
I doubt that you will find many preterists on this forum as most are pre, mid or post tribbers - meaning; that they all believe in a future GT based on the word of God... :huh:

Shalom!

I am not trying to post topics that fit a certain group. I am trying to rightly divide the Word of truth.

You skipped over my point that Jesus, one who can not lie, told his disciples he had come to fulfill "ALL" that had been written about him.

If he did not do that he was a false Messiah!

After the first statement he made to them, he opened their understanding, then he could explain more.

The same is true of my experience, I didn't understand much of anything until Jesus showed me the same scripture. There is no doubt in my mind about what the scripture says, and the people that haven't seen this are those to whom the topic is for. Including you.

Be blessed.

afaithfulone4u · Oct 29, 2013

Rocky Wiley,
I was pondering on this after talking to you and yes... this is very possible there is a double truth here as I said seems possible. For just as Jesus was birthed in the flesh at his coming... so shall his body be birthed again as the many members in Christ who are the spiritual birth of the Christ, holy ones 144,000 sons MADE in the image of Christ by the Spirit.
So yes, "this generation" has the two meanings. One fulfilled for the natural Jerusalem in 70 ad and then one "when you see all these things.. this generation shall not pass away" for the end time spiritual Jerusalem.

Angelina · Oct 30, 2013

your quote:

"You skipped over my point that Jesus, one who can not lie, told his disciples he had come to fulfill "ALL" that had been written about him"....
"I didn't understand much of anything until Jesus showed me the same scripture. There is no doubt in my mind about what the scripture says, and the people that haven't seen this are those to whom the topic is for. Including you."

Rocky...he was born under the law and fulfilled the law to redeem those who were under the law...

Galatians 4
4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

Hebrews 9
15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Matthew 5
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

Luke 24
44 Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.” 45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.
46 Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And you are witnesses of these things. 49 Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.”

Blessings!!!

Rocky Wiley · Oct 30, 2013

Angelina said:
your quote:

Rocky...he was born under the law and fulfilled the law to redeem those who were under the law...

Galatians 4
4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

Hebrews 9
15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Matthew 5
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

Luke 24
44 Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.” 45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.
46 Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And you are witnesses of these things. 49 Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.”

Blessings!!!

Angelina,

Now we appear to be in agreement, that 'all' of the old has been fulfilled. When you study see if any prophecy has been given to the churches of today.
Galatians 4 and Hebrews 9 - Came to redeem those under the law (Jews). We agree, this would be at the resurrection. We only have a disagreement as to when that is.

Jer_31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
The new covenant is with Israel and Judah and are those of faith, that includes Gentiles who also have faith.
Heb_8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
A new covenant was coming when the old passes away. He goes on to say “Now it is ready”. He isn’t talking to us, he was talking to the Hebrews of that time, and he was speaking of the destruction of the old temple, which represented the old covenant.

Matthew 5 - He did not come to destroy the prophecy of the old but to fulfill them. The fulfillment came when the new covenant was completed. The new covenant was to those that believed by faith.
Has this happened? Certainly.

Luk 24 - This is scripture where people interpret to mean our generation. It does not, for he was speaking to his disciples. They were to go into all the world. Did they, according to scripture?
Yes, and here are the scriptures:

Act 24:5 For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes:

Paul speaking to Jews and Romans of his time.

Rom 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
‘All the world’ and ‘now’ is not about our time but theirs.

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

It is about all the world as they knew it and Paul said it had been done.

Hermeneutics teaches us to do the above, that is check:

To whom is the scripture or the book speaking?

When Jesus uses the word ‘ye’ ‘you’ or ‘this generation’ look at whom these pertain to, just as was done above.

Our understanding isn’t as far apart as one might think.

Have I taken any scripture out context or am I just looking at them from another prospective? Could it be the above explanations are the correct interpretations?

Be blessed.

ajdiamond · Oct 30, 2013

3 minor Selah points:

1. The Word is truth to all that believe--Is not the Word truth, whether one believes or not?
2. law of Moses, etc - what we call the Old Testament
--if the law of Moses is the OT, why then does the verse mention the prophets and the psalms? Aren't they part of the OT? Perhaps, the law of Moses is either the Torah or the 613 commandments?
3. "fulfill" is the key word in that verse to come to a more complete understanding...

FHII · Oct 30, 2013

ajdiamond said:
3 minor Selah points:

1. The Word is truth to all that believe--Is not the Word truth, whether one believes or not?
2. law of Moses, etc - what we call the Old Testament
--if the law of Moses is the OT, why then does the verse mention the prophets and the psalms? Aren't they part of the OT? Perhaps, the law of Moses is either the Torah or the 613 commandments?
3. "fulfill" is the key word in that verse to come to a more complete understanding...

Amen on points one and two.... Point three I haven't really thought about.

Angelina · Oct 30, 2013

Now we appear to be in agreement, that 'all' of the old has been fulfilled.

Rocky...the fulfillment that Jesus speaks of refers to "what had been prophesied concerning himself which was written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms. It does not mean that everything has been fulfilled but rather that Jesus fulfilled his part of God's plan for mankind in the sense that he came to redeem them through his sacrifice on the cross. Luke 24:46. In context, Luke 24:44, 45, 46, 47 are speaking of these things.

clark thompson · Nov 1, 2013

I want to add the word is truth wether people accept it or refuse it the word of God is still true.

Rocky Wiley · Nov 4, 2013

clark thompson said:
I want to add the word is truth wether people accept it or refuse it the word of God is still true.

The word is truth, but to the non-believer most of it will be an untruth. If they believed they would be a Christian. There are even Christians that will not believe all that is written, but that has to do more with gaining maturity than anything else.

justaname · Nov 4, 2013

Rocky Wiley said:
Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

To come to a more complete understanding one must read and understand the above scripture first.

‘all’ pas - apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole

written - put in print

law of Moses, etc - what we call the Old Testament

All prophecy about Jesus includes the endtime and judgment. This is what he told the Jews while here on earth many times when he said “this generation” etc, meaning their generation.

When the disciples understood the above:

Luk 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Let me present these for you to reconcile.

Acts 1:9-11
9 And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
10 And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them.
11 They also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven.”

Revelation 1:7
7 Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a cshout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 3:13

13 so that He may establish your hearts without blame in holiness before our God and Father at the dcoming of our Lord Jesus with all His saints.

Finally just to grab something from the OT

Zechariah 14:5-9
5 You will flee by the valley of My mountains, for the valley of the mountains will reach to Azel; yes, you will flee just as you fled before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord, my God, will come, and all the holy ones with Him!
6 In that day there will be no light; the luminaries will dwindle.
7 For it will be a unique day which is known to the Lord, neither day nor night, but it will come about that at evening time there will be light.
8 And in that day living waters will flow out of Jerusalem, half of them toward the eastern sea and the other half toward the western sea; it will be in summer as well as in winter
9 And the Lord will be king over all the earth; in that day the Lord will be the only one, and His name the only one.

Rocky Wiley · Nov 5, 2013

Justaname,

Col 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

We need to have spiritual understanding.

Dan 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Daniel was speaking of the worldly kingdom that was here when Jesus walked the earth. It says that God would set up an everlasting kingdom (spiritual) at that time.
Do we not have access to that kingdom now? Yes, Jesus said we that believe will never die.

Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Jesus confirmed his kingdom was at hand (very near) to his people.

Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
If we want to understand, we also have to look at thise things spiritually.

Joh_8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
Joh_18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

If we don’t look at God’s kingdom as a spiritual kingdom, then we will not see. When scripture says every eye shall see him, it is those with spiritual eyes. The worldly will never see it.

justaname · Nov 6, 2013

Rocky Wiley said:
Justaname,

Col 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

We need to have spiritual understanding.

Dan 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Daniel was speaking of the worldly kingdom that was here when Jesus walked the earth. It says that God would set up an everlasting kingdom (spiritual) at that time.
Do we not have access to that kingdom now? Yes, Jesus said we that believe will never die.

Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Jesus confirmed his kingdom was at hand (very near) to his people.

Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
If we want to understand, we also have to look at thise things spiritually.

Joh_8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
Joh_18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

If we don’t look at God’s kingdom as a spiritual kingdom, then we will not see. When scripture says every eye shall see him, it is those with spiritual eyes. The worldly will never see it.

First I agree that Jesus' Kingdom is spiritual. John 18:36 Luke 17:21

Yet clearly the scriptures speak of Jesus' physical return, as posted above.

Please reconcile verse 9 in the Zechariah passage if you disagree. You can look through spiritual eyes easy enough to see that this world is full of gods. Even if you are Christian and have true discernment of who God is, in the earth there are many names.

Rocky Wiley · Nov 6, 2013

justaname said:
First I agree that Jesus' Kingdom is spiritual. John 18:36 Luke 17:21

Yet clearly the scriptures speak of Jesus' physical return, as posted above.

Please reconcile verse 9 in the Zechariah passage if you disagree. You can look through spiritual eyes easy enough to see that this world is full of gods. Even if you are Christian and have true discernment of who God is, in the earth there are many names.

justaname,

You seem very sincere, so let me dig a little deeper for you.

First, I would like to make a point. God deals with his people, first spiritually with Adam, then through his prophets during the age of law. Then Jesus came to his own, the Jews, and his own received him not. There were Gentiles that came to him, but he did not travel outside of Israel. Now he deals with us individually, because we have him in us, Holy Ghost. So when God uses the word all people he generally is not referring to those who do not believe. Non-believers could never see him in the spirit.
Jesus walked around in a glorified body, not a physical one. He rose spiritually into heaven, and he would return spiritually. In like manner, is spiritual but not necessarly the same.

Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

These scriptures also speak of Jesus coming in judgment. The destruction of Jerusalem and the temple is just what Jesus had told his disciples how they would know the end time.

Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

The Lord is talking to his people, their king. But now he is saying he would be king over all the earth, that would mean in all nations, not just Israel. We know Jesus said his kingdom is in us, not outside. Only believers living throughout the world, not the world itself.

In that day their will be one LORD, (this is how the Jews related to God) and his name one, the only name God has taken is the name that is above all names in heaven and in earth JESUS.

Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

justaname · Nov 7, 2013

Rocky Wiley said:
justaname,

You seem very sincere, so let me dig a little deeper for you.

First, I would like to make a point. God deals with his people, first spiritually with Adam, then through his prophets during the age of law. Then Jesus came to his own, the Jews, and his own received him not. There were Gentiles that came to him, but he did not travel outside of Israel. Now he deals with us individually, because we have him in us, Holy Ghost. So when God uses the word all people he generally is not referring to those who do not believe. Non-believers could never see him in the spirit.
Jesus walked around in a glorified body, not a physical one. He rose spiritually into heaven, and he would return spiritually. In like manner, is spiritual but not necessarly the same.

Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

These scriptures also speak of Jesus coming in judgment. The destruction of Jerusalem and the temple is just what Jesus had told his disciples how they would know the end time.

Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

The Lord is talking to his people, their king. But now he is saying he would be king over all the earth, that would mean in all nations, not just Israel. We know Jesus said his kingdom is in us, not outside. Only believers living throughout the world, not the world itself.

In that day their will be one LORD, (this is how the Jews related to God) and his name one, the only name God has taken is the name that is above all names in heaven and in earth JESUS.

Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

The first thing I must state is I agree that Jesus returned for 40 days in a glorified or resurrected state, yet that body is physical.

John 20:27
Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."

Luke 24:39
Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."

Denying the physical resurrection is heresy, and places you in a cult not Christianity. Perhaps you are not explaining yourself properly or I am not understanding what you are attempting to say?

Now for the Acts account, when the text says in like manner, it could also be referring to they way He went, which was through the air. This theory seems to fit better with scripture.

1 Thessalonians 4:17
After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

BTW... I am sincere. I will say eschatology is interesting and one area I am not 100% settled on. To describe my self, I believe in a sometime rapture (pretrib, midtrib, but probably not postrib rapture) based on this 1 Thess passage I just posted. I see the revelation of Jesus Christ as a true event happening sometime in the future.

Rocky Wiley · Nov 8, 2013

justaname said:
The first thing I must state is I agree that Jesus returned for 40 days in a glorified or resurrected state, yet that body is physical.

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

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The Word is Truth to All That Believe

Rocky Wiley

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afaithfulone4u

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