The Resurrection is Past Already

Rocky Wiley · Nov 17, 2013

Paul, writing a letter to Timothy:

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Study to shew thyself approved.

2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
If Timothy studies he will shun profane and vain babblings:

2Ti 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
Those that do not shun babblings are like Hymenaeus and Philetus:

2Ti 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
These two, Hymenaeus and Philetus have erred since the resurrection had not happened.

How would one know that Philetus and Hymenaeus had erred.

1. Was it because they said they had seen the dead rise into the air?
No, since all of them must have been expecting a spiritual resurrection.

2. Was it because they said they had seen Jesus return again? No, all must have been expecting a spiritual return.

3. Was it because they were not even expecting the return of Jesus to happen for thousands of years. No, they must have been expecting his return soon.

4. All of the above could have been true if they were expecting them to be spiritual and Paul would have no reason to repute them. Yet Paul said:
1Ti 1:18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
1Ti 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
1Ti 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
Paul said they had blasphemed the word of God.

Many people today look for all of the above to be things that many will see with their own eyes and would never believe them unless others were also reporting it to be so. Since Philetus and Hymenaeus were surely saying the above, the people of that time were not looking at natural things and might very well have been persuaded by them.

So what could have they said or not said to show they were in err?

The only sure natural sign of Jesus coming in judgment would have to do with the answer given to the disciples, when they asked:
Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the age?
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Jesus is saying, just as Paul said later to Timothy: “Take heed that no man deceive you.”

The deception that Hymenaeus and Philetus did was not to mention what Jesue said in Matthew 24:2 in response to the question of the disciples, “When, shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and the end of the age?”

It was the only sign to be seen with the natural eye. The destruction of the temple, and it had not happened at that time.

It happened in 70AD and because of that we know that the resurrection and the end of the age happened.

Would Paul say that there are false teachers today?

Those that might say:

‘At hand’ means far, far away.

‘This generation’ means a future generation.

‘Behold I come quickly” means thousands of years later.

‘The epistles were written to us, not to the early churches or Christians.’

‘The book of Revelation was written to us, not to the seven churches of Asia of that time.’

We are the one’s who have to study so that we know truth from err!

day · Nov 17, 2013

While the destruction of the Temple marked the end of that age, the end of the age and the end of the world are not the same event.

Rocky Wiley · Nov 18, 2013

day said:
While the destruction of the Temple marked the end of that age, the end of the age and the end of the world are not the same event.

And we should believe that because you say so?

Arnie Manitoba · Nov 18, 2013

2Ti 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

I have always understood those "false teachings" were from people who were saying the rapture and Resurrection had already happened

...... thus making the Christians think they were "too late" ... or had ... "missed out" ... on the promises

SelectThis! · Nov 18, 2013

The Epistle of Barnabas gives you the timeline. Here is a quote from a thread I did on the subject: Thread

Epistle of Barnabas 15:4

Give heed, children, what this meaneth; He ended in six days. He meaneth this, that in six thousand years the Lord shall bring all things to an end; for the day with Him signifyeth a thousand years; and this He himself beareth me witness, saying; Behold, the day of the Lord shall be as a thousand years. Therefore, children, in six days, that is in six thousand years, everything shall come to an end."

Again, we have the six days of creation, followed by the Day of the Lord rest of 1000 years. Where are we today?

2 Days -Adam to Abraham 2000 Years of Age 1 (FATHER)
2 Days -Issac to Jesus 2000 Years of Age 2 (SON)
2 Days -Jesus to Today 2000 Years of Age 3 (HOLY SPIRIT)
1 Day -Day of Rest (Day of the Lord) 1000 years (SALVATION)

Armed with this knowledge, go to Revelation 20. Keep one thing in mind. You must be born again. Elijah / John the Baptist prepares the way through baptism. We have been baptized into this life, all 7 billion of us in a resurrection, to see Christ return and the wicked judged. We are the first resurrection. It is a two day process.

Acts 1

[SIZE=.75em]5 [/SIZE]For John baptized with[SIZE=.65em][a][/SIZE] water, but in a few days you will be baptized with[SIZE=.65em][b][/SIZE] the Holy Spirit.”

In Hosea, it gives the timeline to raise the temple. On day is 1000 years.

Hosea 6

[SIZE=.75em]2 [/SIZE]
After two days he will revive us [Israel becomes a nation in 1948];
on the third day he will restore us [Day of the Lord],
that we may live in his presence [Christ on Earth].

Go back to the timeline, see that Issac rose as a Son on the third day. Christ will raise again on the third day. The Day of the Lord is the final rest. Now, read Revelation 20.

[SIZE=1.25em]20 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain.[/SIZE] [SIZE=.75em]2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.[/SIZE] [SIZE=.75em]3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=.75em]4 [/SIZE]I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[SIZE=.65em][a][/SIZE] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. [SIZE=.75em]5 [/SIZE](The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.[SIZE=.75em]6 [/SIZE]Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

Go to Revelation 6 now:

Revelation 6

[SIZE=.75em]9 [/SIZE]When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. [SIZE=.75em]10 [/SIZE]They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” [SIZE=.75em]11 [/SIZE]Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters,[SIZE=.65em][e][/SIZE] were killed just as they had been.

If we overcome in this first resurrection, the second death has no power over us. Just as Christ died and rose again, so will we. The timeline is clear if you look. Right now, we are at the event horizon of the Day of the Lord and the wrath on the wicked.

Read the opening lines of Enoch One:

1 I The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be 2 living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed. And he took up his parable and said, "Enoch a righteous man, whose eyes were opened by God, saw the vision of the Holy One in the heavens, which the angels showed me, and from them I heard everything, and from them I understood as I saw, but not for this generation, but for a remote one which is 3 for to come. Concerning the elect I said, and took up my parable concerning them: The Holy Great One will come forth from His dwelling, 4 And the eternal God will tread upon the earth, (even) on Mount Sinai, [And appear from His camp] And appear in the strength of His might from the heaven of heaven. 5 And all shall be smitten with fear, And the Watchers shall quake, And great fear and trembling shall seize them unto the ends of the earth. 6 And the high mountains shall be shaken, And the high hills shall be made low, And shall melt like wax before the flame. And the earth shall be wholly rent in sunder, And all that is upon the earth shall perish, And there shall be a judgment upon all (men). But with the righteous He will make peace, And will protect the elect, And. mercy shall be upon them. And they shall all belong to God, And they shall be prospered, And they shall all be blessed. And He will help them all, And light shall appear unto them, And He will make peace with them. 9 And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones To execute judgment upon all, And to destroy all the ungodly: And to convict all flesh of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed, And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners
have spoken against Him.

Jude 1

[SIZE=.75em]14 [/SIZE]Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones [SIZE=.75em]15 [/SIZE]to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”[SIZE=.65em][e][/SIZE] [SIZE=.75em]16 [/SIZE]These people are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage.

Arnie Manitoba said:
I have always understood those "false teachings" were from people who were saying the rapture and Resurrection had already happened

...... thus making the Christians think they were "too late" ... or had ... "missed out" ... on the promises

2 Timothy also gives the mark of the beast in the end times:

2 Timothy 3

[SIZE=1.25em]3 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days.[/SIZE] [SIZE=.75em]2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,[/SIZE] [SIZE=.75em]3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good,[/SIZE] [SIZE=.75em]4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God—[/SIZE] [SIZE=.75em]5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.[/SIZE]

There are 18 items marking selfishness and pride. That's 6+6+6. He says, "Mark this." If you go back to Jude 1, the answer to this is given again.

[SIZE=.75em]11 Woe to them! They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam’s error;they have been destroyed in Korah’s rebellion.[/SIZE]

The way of Cain the builder (Mason) who rules by private associations for personal gain, working on the outer temple rather than the inner temple. He killed Abel out of jealousy. Balaam's error is sabotaging the Israelites as they entered the promised land. In other words, those who try to undermine salvation with divisions. The same happens today with the Christian witness and people who are trying to undermine the message.

Wikipedia has a good article on this topic.

rjp34652@yahoo.com · Nov 18, 2013

Rocky Wiley said:
And we should believe that because you say so?

You should believe it because of the condition of the world today.

Does it look as though man and satan rule or does it look like a planet in rebellion against the Most High, sorely in need of redemption?

Potentates of every sort rule with an iron fist. Pollution is everywhere. Graft and corruption are the status quo in even the most established nations. The rich get richer upon the necks of the poor and middle class. And the legions of AntiChrist march in ever greater strength.

You need to get your mind and your head out of the rubbish and the philosophical sewer you've been living in and take a hard look around you. You have chosen to believe a lie, supposing instead that your interpretations and conclusion supersede those whom God commissioned to write His holy scripture.

The evidence of the world's condition prove your conclusions are errant.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

Rocky Wiley · Nov 18, 2013

Arnie Manitoba said:
I have always understood those "false teachings" were from people who were saying the rapture and Resurrection had already happened

...... thus making the Christians think they were "too late" ... or had ... "missed out" ... on the promises

Paul was speaking to Timothy, not us. At that time the temple had not been destroyed, thus the sign of Jesus' return had not happened.
As was posted earlier, the temple was destroyed in 70 AD and since that was the sign of his coming, it happened.

Be blessed

[email protected] said:
You should believe it because of the condition of the world today.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

Do you really believe life was without troubles back then. Read the books "Wars of the Jew" and one will see real problems.

Remember, Jesus called the Pharisees 'Vipers' or snakes.

The bible is my source for the time frame, not man's interpretation.

Be blessed

williemac · Nov 18, 2013

1Cor.15:52 says that the resurrection happens at the last trumpet. In Thess.4:16-18, Paul tells of the coming of the Lord with the trumpet of God, when we will be caught up together with the dead and be with Jesus. Then, in his 2nd letter to the Thessalonians, Paul further comforted them to not be shaken by any report that the day of the Lord had come already ( meaning they had missed it). In ch.23, he reveals that it will not happen until the falling away comes first and the man of sin is revealed. Jesus related this event as well which was recorded by Mathew. He indicated that when He comes on the clouds that the whole world would know about it. He said it would happen after the great tribulation and warned that there would be false reports that it had already happened and that Jesus was already here.

As for what is seen with the natural eye, when Jesus was taken up into the clouds, as the disciples gazed heavenly, and angel appeared to them and assured them that He would come back the same way they SAW him go. He went up into the clouds and He will return from out of the clouds, as the lightning flashes from the east to the west. This will be a visible event that will cause all the nations of the world to lament.

But even before that, there will be signs in the world, earthquakes in various places, kingdom rising against kingdom, wars and rumors of wars. Jesus also said that persecution would arise. Sounds like there was a lot of turmoil and tribulation on the earth before 70 ad if the op is accurate. Unfortunately there is no historical record of anything near what Jesus described. But we certainly can see these things unfolding in our own lifetime.

My advice is to ignore Rocky Wiley's teaching. His doctrine is so obviously false that I can hardly believe anyone is even giving him the time of day.

Math.24:14...."And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come"

Whatever happened in 70 ad. it was not the coming of the Lord, it was not the resurrection, and it was not the end of the age.

Dodo_David · Nov 18, 2013

First, the Epistle of Barnabas and the book of Enoch aren't recognized by the universal Church as being Scripture.

By "universal Church", I mean the entire Body of Christ on Earth, which includes Messianic Jews, Protestants, Roman Catholics, Coptic Christians, Eastern Orthodox Christians, etc.

Second, in Matthew 24:17, the Lord Jesus says, "For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man."

SelectThis! · Nov 18, 2013

Dodo_David said:
First, the Epistle of Barnabas and the book of Enoch aren't recognized by the universal Church as being Scripture.

By "universal Church", I mean the entire Body of Christ on Earth, which includes Messianic Jews, Protestants, Roman Catholics, Coptic Christians, Eastern Orthodox Christians, etc.

Second, in Matthew 24:17, the Lord Jesus says, "For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man."

Neither are any of the books of commentary from theologians, yet we have their works on our shelves. None of them were named Apostles in the Bible. Barnabas is. It depends on what you are looking for by perspective. No better source can be found than our scriptures, but for a sense of the thought of the early Christian, this cannot be replaced. God preserves these texts for a reason. Know them by their fruit. This one is filled on every limb.

Acts 14:14 - But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of this, they tore their clothes and rushed out into the crowd, shouting:

As for the authenticity of of the Epistle, there is little doubt. Don't confuse this with the Gospel of Barnabas. That was an Islamic forgery. I would highly recommend reading this: LINK This book is an amazing example of post-apocalyptic literature from an author that was friends with Paul, had a wealth of historical perspective and likely had access to the Library of Alexandria. Again, we use the theologians like they are apostles. Here, we actually have one at our disposal.

whirlwind · Nov 19, 2013

Rocky Wiley said:
Paul was speaking to Timothy, not us. At that time the temple had not been destroyed, thus the sign of Jesus' return had not happened.
As was posted earlier, the temple was destroyed in 70 AD and since that was the sign of his coming, it happened.

Be blessed

Click to expand...

LOL. The words of the Bible are written to all of us.

The temple became null and void at the crucifixion of Christ...when the vail was rent. It was no more than a dead building standing...just waiting for the Roman general to get rid of it. Jesus is the Temple and we are the Temple. God does not live in a building made by hands.

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Consider too that it wasn't just the temple Christ said would be destroyed but rather...the stones and buildings of the temple. That includes the western wall of great stones, one upon another. They still stand and that was the very site Christ would have been looking toward when He sat on the mount of Olives as He spoke to the disciples...and us.

Mark 13:1-3 And as He went out of the temple, one of His disciples saith unto Him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. And as He sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked Him privately,

Rocky Wiley · Nov 19, 2013

whirlwind said:
LOL. The words of the Bible are written to all of us.

The temple became null and void at the crucifixion of Christ...when the vail was rent. It was no more than a dead building standing...just waiting for the Roman general to get rid of it. Jesus is the Temple and we are the Temple. God does not live in a building made by hands.

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Consider too that it wasn't just the temple Christ said would be destroyed but rather...the stones and buildings of the temple. That includes the western wall of great stones, one upon another. They still stand and that was the very site Christ would have been looking toward when He sat on the mount of Olives as He spoke to the disciples...and us.

Mark 13:1-3 And as He went out of the temple, one of His disciples saith unto Him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. And as He sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked Him privately,

Click to expand...

whirlwind,

The Word of God was written ‘for’ all of us but it is not directed to any of us. There isn't any book that says “To the seven churches of Asia of the future” It didn’t because they were there at the time it was sent to them. Now if we gain knowledge from it, that is what it is for.

Act_2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

Act_3:1 Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour.
Act_3:2 And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple;
Act_3:3 Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms.

Act_3:8 And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God.

Act_5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

Act_21:26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.

Act_22:17 And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance;

Act_24:18 Whereupon certain Jews from Asia found me purified in the temple, neither with multitude, nor with tumult.

The disciples continued to go to the temple while they were preaching Jesus. The end of the age would not come until the temple was destroyed. That would also mean the marriage took place, and we became the bride of Christ. God would never get married again until the first had been done away with.
1Co_13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

I am a firm believer that Jesus did what he said, he destroyed the buildings, which must not have included the wall.

You are trying to use logic but that logic has to fit scripture. When one reads a scripture that doesn’t seem to fit, pray to God to give you understanding. He will do it, and when he does you have just formed a closer relationship with him. That is better than any relationship we might have with mankind.

Don’t take offense of this, for it is only for the benefit of you and others that read this string. You have made comments that took up your time and I commend you for it.

Be blessed.

whirlwind · Nov 20, 2013

Rocky Wiley said.....

whirlwind,

The Word of God was written ‘for’ all of us but it is not directed to any of us. There isn't any book that says “To the seven churches of Asia of the future” It didn’t because they were there at the time it was sent to them. Now if we gain knowledge from it, that is what it is for.

In response to this verse.....

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

You have erred by writing...."Paul was speaking to Timothy, not us." I disagree for it is directed to all of us. Nothing need be addressed to us individually for all of the Bible concerns all mankind. Your reasoning in saying that is tied to the destruction of the temple in 70AD, which has NOTHING to do with anything as it was...a dead temple standing once Jesus left the building!

Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and His disciples came to Him for to shew Him the buildings of the temple.

Jesus and His connection to the temple made with hands was over. From that point on that temple was devoid of God. God went out and departed! He never entered it again.

Matthew 26:57-61 And they that had laid hold on Jesus led Him away to Caiaphas the high priest, where the scribes and the elders were assembled. But Peter followed him afar off unto the high priest's palace, and went in, and sat with the servants, to see the end. Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put Him to death; But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses, And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.

The two false witnesses to Jesus (false witnesses to The Word) that come at the last are....rapture and preterism. One of which you are teaching at this moment and....you err.

Act_2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

Act_3:1 Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour.

Act_3:2 And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple;

Act_3:3 Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms.

Act_3:8 And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God.

Act_5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

Act_21:26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.

Act_22:17 And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance;

Act_24:18 Whereupon certain Jews from Asia found me purified in the temple, neither with multitude, nor with tumult.

The disciples continued to go to the temple while they were preaching Jesus. The end of the age would not come until the temple was destroyed. That would also mean the marriage took place, and we became the bride of Christ. God would never get married again until the first had been done away with.

LOL. He was never "married" to a building.

Acts 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,

His disciples go into churches made with hands today to preach Jesus. But that is NOT where God dwells.

1Co_13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

I am a firm believer that Jesus did what he said, he destroyed the buildings, which must not have included the wall.

You are trying to use logic but that logic has to fit scripture. When one reads a scripture that doesn’t seem to fit, pray to God to give you understanding. He will do it, and when he does you have just formed a closer relationship with him. That is better than any relationship we might have with mankind.

Don’t take offense of this, for it is only for the benefit of you and others that read this string. You have made comments that took up your time and I commend you for it.

Be blessed.

"Must not have included?" LOL. Don't take offense but....you have got to be kidding! The wall is the foundation of the buildings. The wall is one great stone upon another. The wall is what He was seeing from His position on the mount of Olives. The 70AD event was a blip on the history of Jerusalem...a big one but certainly not the end of the age.

The resurrection is an ongoing procedure...it is not past.

veteran · Dec 12, 2013

Rocky Wiley said:
The deception that Hymenaeus and Philetus did was not to mention what Jesue said in Matthew 24:2 in response to the question of the disciples, “When, shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and the end of the age?”

It was the only sign to be seen with the natural eye. The destruction of the temple, and it had not happened at that time.

It happened in 70AD and because of that we know that the resurrection and the end of the age happened.

Would Paul say that there are false teachers today?

Those that might say:

‘At hand’ means far, far away.

‘This generation’ means a future generation.

‘Behold I come quickly” means thousands of years later.

‘The epistles were written to us, not to the early churches or Christians.’

‘The book of Revelation was written to us, not to the seven churches of Asia of that time.’

We are the one’s who have to study so that we know truth from err!

So says... [SIZE=11pt]Philetus and Hymenaeus... AND Rockey Wiley.[/SIZE]

Birds of a feather always flock together.

Rocky Wiley · Dec 13, 2013

veteran said:
So says... [SIZE=11pt]Philetus and Hymenaeus... AND Rockey Wiley.[/SIZE]

Birds of a feather always flock together.

Hi veteran,

I would think you might know this anyway. But the reason your prophecy teacher says the temple must be rebuilt is because they know the scripture says it will be destroyed in the last days. What they can't accept is a spiritual coming.

Philetus and Hymenaeus were wrong about the resurrection because the destruction had not happened when they said the resurrection had already occurred.

Scripture is not wrong, men are.

whirlwind · Dec 13, 2013

Rocky Wiley said:
Hi veteran,

I would think you might know this anyway. But the reason your prophecy teacher says the temple must be rebuilt is because they know the scripture says it will be destroyed in the last days. What they can't accept is a spiritual coming.

Philetus and Hymenaeus were wrong about the resurrection because the destruction had not happened when they said the resurrection had already occurred.

Scripture is not wrong, men are.

The temple stands today. The only temple there will ever be and...it will never be destroyed.

Rocky Wiley · Dec 14, 2013

whirlwind said:
The temple stands today. The only temple there will ever be and...it will never be destroyed.

When Jesus told the disciples that the temple would be destroyed, he was speaking about the temple that they had just mentioned to him. That was the one where the Jews offered daily sacrifices.

Read with understanding and

Be blessed

whirlwind · Dec 14, 2013

Rocky Wiley said:
When Jesus told the disciples that the temple would be destroyed, he was speaking about the temple that they had just mentioned to him. That was the one where the Jews offered daily sacrifices.

Read with understanding and

Be blessed

Mark 13:1-2 And as He went out of the temple, one of His disciples saith unto Him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Matthew 24:1-3 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and His disciples came to Him for to shew Him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

To just see "the temple" in this teaching is to not see. It is the BUILDINGS OF THE TEMPLE, or "all these things" they were looking at that are the subject.

They were sitting on the mount of Olives gazing at the Western Wall...the wailing wall when He spoke the above words. From there He could see the "buildings of the temple" which included all the buildings on the temple grounds AND the foundation wall. They are "all these things."

All those things...including "one stone upon another" will not be one upon another when the world/age ends and we see the sign of His coming.

williemac · Dec 16, 2013

They asked Jesus about the end of the world. He told them about it. He did not include the temple being destroyed at the time of the end. He began by telling them it would be destroyed. Their question came afterward. They may well have connected the destruction of the temple with the end of the age, but Jesus neither confirmed it nor denied it. He merely answered their question. As far as the resurrection is concerned...I don't know about anyone else here, but I am still in my original body. I have not been changed yet. Whatever happened in 70 Ad, it was not the resurrection. God is patient, not willing that any should perish. There are still mockers even today, saying "where is the promise of His coming?" .
The vast majority of the Christian world does not reply with..."He came already". The bible is not of private interpretation. Just because one sect is motivated to insist that He already came, does not make them correct. Jesus even promised that this would happen. What He advised is..."don't believe it". When He returns, the entire planet will witness it and there will not be any discussion or debate. The fact that there is one is proof that it has not yet occurred.

Rocky Wiley · Dec 16, 2013

williemac in black print - Rocky Wiley in blue print
They asked Jesus about the end of the world. He told them about it. He did not include the temple being destroyed at the time of the end. He began by telling them it would be destroyed. Their question came afterward. They may well have connected the destruction of the temple with the end of the age, but Jesus neither confirmed it nor denied it.
Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Heaven and earth, to the Jew, was the temple and mount. A place where God and man did meet.

As far as the resurrection is concerned...I don't know about anyone else here, but I am still in my original body. I have not been changed yet. Whatever happened in 70 Ad, it was not the resurrection
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
Those that sleep were those of the Old Testament and they would be changed. The Christian would not sleep, but when we pass from this life we go right on to be with the Lord in our new body.
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Again, the dead, pre Christian, will be raised from the dead and we, when we pass away, we shall be changed.

1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
The dead, or those that slept, must be changed, and our mortal body will put on immortallity.

1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
There is the mystery explained. Remember Jesus said, he that is alive and believeth on him shall never die. So we will never see the grave.

The vast majority of the Christian world does not reply with..."He came already". The bible is not of private interpretation. Just because one sect is motivated to insist that He already came, does not make them correct. Jesus even promised that this would happen. What He advised is..."don't believe it". When He returns, the entire planet will witness it and there will not be any discussion or debate. The fact that there is one is proof that it has not yet occurred.

Just saying that does not make it so. Besides, God isn’t looking for numbers, he is looking for believers. Look at the percentage of Jews that did not believe Jesus was the Messiah. Had he wanted the vast numbers, then the scribes and Pharisees would have been those chosen. I feel much more comfortable reading for myself than having someone tell me that because I believe like the rest of the churches I will make it. Maybe so, maybe not. But my decision will be mine, and it will be based upon God’s word. Knowing this, if I were to be judged it would be by his word, not man’s.

Be a believer with conviction of truth and

Be blessed

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