A Stone of Stumbling

whirlwind · Dec 3, 2013

Acts 2:21,36 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. (36) Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Call on the name of the Lord....God made Jesus Lord and Christ. What then is...the name of the Lord?

Those that call on the NAME OF THE LORD shall be saved. Call on what name? Can He be called on as God Almighty and yet believe that Jesus Christ is not...God Almighty, not the Lord? Are those that don't believe Jesus is God...saved?

Exodus 6:2-3 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I Am the Lord: And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by My name Jehovah was I not known to them.

Why was Jehovah not known to them? What is being said? God is the Lord....God made Jesus the Lord...who then is Jehovah?

"While Elohim is God as the Creator of all things, Jehovah is the same God in covenant relation to those whom He has created. Jehovah means The Eternal, Immutable One. He Who WAS and IS and IS TO COME." - E.W. Bullinger

"Jehovah is the Existing One." - BlueLetterBible

Genesis 21:33 And Abraham planted a grove in Beersheba, and called there on the name of the Lord, the everlasting God.

The everlasting God is the existing One...Jehovah. The One covenant God and Lord, the One Creator of all things, the One Messiah, Saviour and our Redeemer is......

John 1:1-2,14 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. (14) And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

To not recognize this (or admit this) is to not have a sanctuary in Christ. Rather than finding Peace He becomes a stumbling block, a snare for He is the Word upon whom many stumble......

Isaiah 8:13-15 Sanctify the Lord of hosts Himself; and let Him be your fear, and let Him be your dread. And He shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.

1 Peter 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

IBeMe · Dec 3, 2013

Call on what name?

"Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole."

"This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner."

"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

Episkopos · Dec 3, 2013

1 Peter 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

Both Jews AND Gentiles stumble at the word.

The Jews because of the deity of Christ. They have difficulty with a descendant of David being God.

And Gentiles because of the humanity of Christ. They have difficulty with having no sin while being in an earthly body. So they doubt that the power of Christ can cause them to be holy as God is holy.

Isa_8:14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

whirlwind · Dec 3, 2013

IBeMe said:
"Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole."

"This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner."

"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

I agree IBeMe (love that name). But, what of the many that think Jesus was a great man, a man like no other and yet...think He is not God? Can they "call on His name" as Jesus and still be saved?

Episkopos said:
1 Peter 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

Both Jews AND Gentiles stumble at the word.

The Jews because of the deity of Christ. They have difficulty with a descendant of David being God.

And Gentiles because of the humanity of Christ. They have difficulty with having no sin while being in an earthly body. So they doubt that the power of Christ can cause them to be holy as God is holy.

Isa_8:14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

As the "Jews" stumble by not admitting that Jesus is God...so do many "believing" Christians. Therefore, they stumble on that truth and that may well keep them from being Sons of God.

John 1:11-12 He came unto His own, and His own received Him not. But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name:

His own, Christians, receive Him as the Son of God but not as God...they received Him not. The phrase "believe on His name," not just believe in Jesus, is a vital understanding.

IBeMe · Dec 3, 2013

whirlwind
But, what of the many that think Jesus was a great man, a man like no other and yet...think He is not God? Can they "call on His name" as Jesus and still be saved?

Actually, that would fit this scripture.

" Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. "

Dodo_David · Dec 3, 2013

whirlwind said:
As the "Jews" stumble by not admitting that Jesus is God...so do many "believing" Christians. Therefore, they stumble on that truth and that may well keep them from being Sons of God.

John 1:11-12 He came unto His own, and His own received Him not. But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name:

His own, Christians, receive Him as the Son of God but not as God...they received Him not. The phrase "believe on His name," not just believe in Jesus, is a vital understanding.

Huh? "He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him." "His own" were the unbelieving Jews.

By the way, if you want to get picky about names, then you are going to have to use the names as given in the Old Testament and New Testament manuscripts. None of those names have the Latin letter "J" in them.

whirlwind · Dec 3, 2013

Dodo_David said:
Huh? "He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him." "His own" were the unbelieving Jews.

By the way, if you want to get picky about names, then you are going to have to use the names as given in the Old Testament and New Testament manuscripts. None of those names have the Latin letter "J" in them.

Actually, He was not sent to the Jews (house of Judah)...although they certainly didn't receive Him. Rather He and His disciples were sent to the house of Israel...today's Christians.

Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matthew 15:24 But He answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

The point I'm making in this thread is that some of those that do believe, that do call themselves Christian...do not receive Him AS GOD.

I didn't think I was "getting picky" about names. Rather I quoted Scripture that tells us the importance of believing IN HIS NAME. And yes, I realize the "J" was not in the Hebrew alphabet.

Dodo_David · Dec 3, 2013

whirlwind said:
Actually, He was not sent to the Jews (house of Judah)...although they certainly didn't receive Him. Rather He and His disciples were sent to the house of Israel...today's Christians..

I see nothing in the New Testament that describes Gentile believers in the Messiah as being the house of Israel.

In Romans 1:16, the Apostle Paul writes, "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile."

whirlwind · Dec 4, 2013

Dodo_David said:
I see nothing in the New Testament that describes Gentile believers in the Messiah as being the house of Israel.

In Romans 1:16, the Apostle Paul writes, "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile."

When the Gentile believes he is then grafted into the olive tree...he becomes the olive tree, he becomes of Israel. He is adopted.

Dodo_David · Dec 7, 2013

whirlwind said:
When the Gentile believes he is then grafted into the olive tree...he becomes the olive tree, he becomes of Israel. He is adopted.

Gentile believers are grafted into the olive tree that consists of Jewish believers.

Messianic Jews do not call themselves "Christians".

whirlwind · Dec 7, 2013

Dodo_David said:
Gentile believers are grafted into the olive tree that consists of Jewish believers.

Messianic Jews do not call themselves "Christians".

1. If one is a believer in the name of Jesus Christ then...one is a Christian...whether or not one is or is not a Jew.

2. You say "grafted into the olive tree that consists of JEWISH believers" but I said....

"When the Gentile believes he is then grafted into the olive tree...he becomes the olive tree, he becomes of Israel. He is adopted."

There is a great difference.

Dodo_David · Dec 7, 2013

whirlwind said:
1. If one is a believer in the name of Jesus Christ then...one is a Christian...whether or not one is or is not a Jew.

Keep in mind that the title "Christ" is just that, a title.
It is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew title "Messiah", which is what Messianic Jews use when talking about Jesus.
Indeed, Messianic Jews call themselves Messianic Jews in order to emphasize the fact that the are still Jews.

whirlwind · Dec 7, 2013

Dodo_David said:
Keep in mind that the title "Christ" is just that, a title.
It is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew title "Messiah", which is what Messianic Jews use when talking about Jesus.
Indeed, Messianic Jews call themselves Messianic Jews in order to emphasize the fact that the are still Jews.

Is this thread about "Messianic Jews" :huh: or what they term themselves?

I repeat - "If one is a believer in the name of Jesus Christ then...one is a Christian...whether or not one is or is not a Jew." One becomes a man of Christ...a Christ-ian/Christ man.

Rather, the OP concerns, "The point I'm making in this thread is that some of those that do believe, that do call themselves Christian...do not receive Him AS GOD."

That is a great danger and that is the point of the thread.

Rach1370 · Dec 7, 2013

Can I ask what you mean by them 'not accepting him as their God"...and by that I mean, what is the outcome of them not believing that Jesus is God?
I think that the very great problem that we see today, is that many who call themselves "Christian" do not display any "fruit", revealing that they have not really been born again. Do you see this as a similar issue, or are they different?

whirlwind · Dec 8, 2013

Rach said:
Can I ask what you mean by them 'not accepting him as their God"...and by that I mean, what is the outcome of them not believing that Jesus is God?
I think that the very great problem that we see today, is that many who call themselves "Christian" do not display any "fruit", revealing that they have not really been born again. Do you see this as a similar issue, or are they different?

Good morning Australia...from down south Alabama way.

Yes, I do see it as a similar issue. Many are Christian in name only which I see as using His name in vain...worthlessly.

My main point though is that there are some (many actually) that think of Jesus as the Son of God but...not as God. That, I believe, is a danger. From the following it appears that belief in Him is one thing but belief IN THE NAME OF JESUS is what is required.

John 3:18 He that believeth on Him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Is belief in Him simply believing He walked the earth...that there was a man named Jesus? I think so and in that group I would place many religions including many Christians that cannot come to the realization that He is God. To believe there was a Jesus condemns no one and yet to not believe in His name and all that represents does condemn (separate) them from becoming sons of God.

I Am, Christ, Messiah, Redeemer, Saviour, Creator, Mighty God, Everlasting Father...and the list goes on. He has many names and those names are His.

John 1:11-12 He came unto His own, and His own received Him not. But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name:

Dodo_David · Dec 8, 2013

I have yet to meet an actual Christian who denies that Jesus is God the Son.

whirlwind · Dec 9, 2013

Dodo_David said:
I have yet to meet an actual Christian who denies that Jesus is God the Son.

There are many that believe they are Christian...believe Jesus was the Son of God....believe He is the Saviour and yet do not believe He is God.

Rocky Wiley · Dec 15, 2013

whirlwind said:
Acts 2:21,36 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. (36) Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Call on the name of the Lord....God made Jesus Lord and Christ. What then is...the name of the Lord?

Those that call on the NAME OF THE LORD shall be saved. Call on what name? Can He be called on as God Almighty and yet believe that Jesus Christ is not...God Almighty, not the Lord? Are those that don't believe Jesus is God...saved?

Exodus 6:2-3 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I Am the Lord: And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by My name Jehovah was I not known to them.

Why was Jehovah not known to them? What is being said? God is the Lord....God made Jesus the Lord...who then is Jehovah?

"While Elohim is God as the Creator of all things, Jehovah is the same God in covenant relation to those whom He has created. Jehovah means The Eternal, Immutable One. He Who WAS and IS and IS TO COME." - E.W. Bullinger

"Jehovah is the Existing One." - BlueLetterBible

Genesis 21:33 And Abraham planted a grove in Beersheba, and called there on the name of the Lord, the everlasting God.

The everlasting God is the existing One...Jehovah. The One covenant God and Lord, the One Creator of all things, the One Messiah, Saviour and our Redeemer is......

John 1:1-2,14 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. (14) And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

To not recognize this (or admit this) is to not have a sanctuary in Christ. Rather than finding Peace He becomes a stumbling block, a snare for He is the Word upon whom many stumble......

Isaiah 8:13-15 Sanctify the Lord of hosts Himself; and let Him be your fear, and let Him be your dread. And He shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.

1 Peter 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

What is the name that is above every name.

Php_2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Act_4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Php_2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Jesus is the name!

whirlwind · Dec 15, 2013

Rocky Wiley said:
What is the name that is above every name.

Php_2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Act_4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Php_2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Jesus is the name!

Indeed He is but....what is it to believe in the name of...Jesus Christ. Not just believe Jesus walked the earth but believe in His name.

A Stone of Stumbling

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