Graves Opened...Bodies Went Into the City

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Arnie Manitoba

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The Temple contained an inner sanctuary known as The Holy of Holies

The Temple was situated in the city of Jerusalem

Thieves or money changers in the outer courts does not negate anything
 

whirlwind

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Whirlwind - If you believe that then please tell me why the wicked city of Jerusalem could possibly be called...the holy city?

Angelina - I just did...




The answer you wrote...."because it is the city of the great King Matthew 5:33, 34, 35."


Matthew 5:33-35 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: Nor by the earth; for it is His footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.



Jerusalem is indeed the city of the great King. Where is the Jerusalem of which He is the King for it is the "holy city Jerusalem?" It is where His throne is.

Isaiah 62:12 And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the Lord: and thou shalt be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken.



Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.


The holy city Jerusalem is....His holy people, the bride of Christ.



so am I but that does not make me a city in Heaven... :huh:


According to the Word of the Lord...yes it does. "The holy people...the redeemed...a city...the holy city....the bride."



You are talking about two different things...prior to his resurrection [Jerusalem was still called the Holy City] and after he ascended into heaven and became the great high priest forever,according to the order of Melchizedek...


Actually....I believe He was Melchizedek before He became the Son.

Jerusalem is the holy city. We just need to distinguish what is meant by "the city."
Arnie Manitoba said:
The Temple contained an inner sanctuary known as The Holy of Holies

The Temple was situated in the city of Jerusalem

Thieves or money changers in the outer courts does not negate anything



Yes, the Holy of Holies was in the inner sanctuary of the Temple

Yes, the Temple was in the city of Jerusalem.

The Temple was then, as it is today, filled with those that buy and sell. It shall be cleansed

All of the above does not make the literal city of Jerusalem...the Holy City Jerusalem. We, who are His holy people ARE His holy city, His bride.
 

Arnie Manitoba

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whirlwind
Read some more and it is clear it is the earthly Jerusalem

--curtain torn
--earth shook
--rocks split
--tombs broke open
--people saw all that had happened


Matthew 27: 51-56

51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people.
54 When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, “Surely he was the Son of God!”
55 Many women were there, watching from a distance. They had followed Jesus from Galilee to care for his needs. 56 Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of Zebedee’s sons.
 

whirlwind

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Arnie Manitoba said:
whirlwind
Read some more and it is clear it is the earthly Jerusalem

--curtain torn
--earth shook
--rocks split
--tombs broke open
--people saw all that had happened


Matthew 27: 51-56

51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people.
54 When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, “Surely he was the Son of God!”
55 Many women were there, watching from a distance. They had followed Jesus from Galilee to care for his needs. 56 Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of Zebedee’s sons.


Please see this spiritually Arnie. Do you really think that decomposed bodies stood up and walked around town?
 

Rach1370

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whirlwind said:
Please see this spiritually Arnie. Do you really think that decomposed bodies stood up and walked around town?
Um....we're talking about the most monumentous occasion in history. God died on a cross...a curtain was torn by invisible hands, the ground shook, and the sun blotted out by God's hand. I think...especially given what we know happens to Jesus with his resurrection...and what we know will happen to us in the future, that having people rise from their graves as they were....presumably not rotting....is just a small feat for God. So....I'm not sure that you can use that as an argument for you case....just saying!!
 

Arnie Manitoba

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whirlwind said:
Please see this spiritually Arnie. Do you really think that decomposed bodies stood up and walked around town?
Doesn't matter what I think

And yes , dead people were brought back to life and it was not the first time nor the last.

It has been speculated that those (raised) people would die again , but in the meantime probably became Christians once they figured out why they were brought back from the dead.

I think there were two main things Jesus intended for the people to grasp at that time .... one was the tearing of the curtain to signify the end of the presence of God in the Holy of Holies inside the temple , and the other were convincing proofs that indeed something profoundly important was happening.

Furthermore there would have been other occurrences of people raised from the dead because Jesus gave that mandate to his 12 apostles as per ..... Matthew 10: 8 .... Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.

best wishes
 

whirlwind

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Arnie Manitoba said:
Doesn't matter what I think

And yes , dead people were brought back to life and it was not the first time nor the last.

It has been speculated that those (raised) people would die again , but in the meantime probably became Christians once they figured out why they were brought back from the dead.

I think there were two main things Jesus intended for the people to grasp at that time .... one was the tearing of the curtain to signify the end of the presence of God in the Holy of Holies inside the temple , and the other were convincing proofs that indeed something profoundly important was happening.

Furthermore there would have been other occurrences of people raised from the dead because Jesus gave that mandate to his 12 apostles as per ..... Matthew 10: 8 .... Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.

best wishes


How do today's apostles and prophets.....raise the dead, heal the sick, cleanse and drive out demons?

He works in each of us and it is the Word, Jesus Christ, that cleanses, that brings us out of our graves, that heals our spirits and...that drives out demons.

It is SPIRITUAL for it is the working of the Holy Spirit that accomplishes this...sometimes directly as in His elect and sometimes in those (the elect) that He sends forth. It is belief in Him that accomplishes all of the above!

John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word;


Please consider Arnie....when we believed...we were raised out of our graves, we were cleansed, we were healed.



_____________________________________________________________________________________




Rach said:
Um....we're talking about the most monumentous occasion in history. God died on a cross...a curtain was torn by invisible hands, the ground shook, and the sun blotted out by God's hand. I think...especially given what we know happens to Jesus with his resurrection...and what we know will happen to us in the future, that having people rise from their graves as they were....presumably not rotting....is just a small feat for God. So....I'm not sure that you can use that as an argument for you case....just saying!!


All true Rach and I take your "just saying!!" to heart yet...truth can be both literal and/or spiritual events.

When God, or that part of Him, the flesh of the Son, died on a cross (I appreciate your writing of God on the cross...many don't understand that) then, I believe, we need to see the spiritual.

Concerning these things:

Matthew 27:50-52 Jesus, when He had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

Luke 23:44-46 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was A DARKNESS over all the earth until the ninth hour. And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst. And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, He said, Father, into Thy hands I commend My spirit: and having said thus, He gave up the ghost.



1. The number six is always connected to Satan. This event began at the sixth hour and Satan is...Darkness. So what is "A" darkness that was over all the earth as the Lord was on the cross? As Jesus is the Light of the world...who is the darkness?

1 Thessalonians 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.


2. As Jesus is the Light of the world He is symbolized in the Sun. The Sun was darkened...The Sun/Light was crucified by darkness....until the ninth hour. (Nine means finality and judgment).


3. Veil of the temple was rent. The vail is to "divide unto you between the holy place and the most holy." [Ex.26:33] Jesus IS the Temple and His death and resurrection removed the veil between God's children and God, the most Holy.

To "rent" #4977, as in the vail was rent, the rocks were rent means..."severed, opened, divide, split." The vail covering our Saviour was opened.


Revelation 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.


2 Corinthians 3:14-16 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.




4. Earth did quake, rocks were rent, into Thy hands I commend My spirit...all have spiritual meaning but this post is already longer than it should be.


I do ask you to consider this.....regarding a shaking and opening of graves.




Ezekiel 37:4 Again He said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the Lord.
5 Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.
8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.
9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord God; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.
10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.
11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.


When we hear and see the Words of the Lord...we live spiritually. We rise from our graves...we are brought into the land of the living.


























");
 

Rach1370

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whirlwind said:
All true Rach and I take your "just saying!!" to heart yet...truth can be both literal and/or spiritual events.

When God, or that part of Him, the flesh of the Son, died on a cross (I appreciate your writing of God on the cross...many don't understand that) then, I believe, we need to see the spiritual.

Concerning these things:

Matthew 27:50-52 Jesus, when He had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

Luke 23:44-46 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was A DARKNESS over all the earth until the ninth hour. And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst. And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, He said, Father, into Thy hands I commend My spirit: and having said thus, He gave up the ghost.



1. The number six is always connected to Satan. This event began at the sixth hour and Satan is...Darkness. So what is "A" darkness that was over all the earth as the Lord was on the cross? As Jesus is the Light of the world...who is the darkness?

1 Thessalonians 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.


2. As Jesus is the Light of the world He is symbolized in the Sun. The Sun was darkened...The Sun/Light was crucified by darkness....until the ninth hour. (Nine means finality and judgment).


3. Veil of the temple was rent. The vail is to "divide unto you between the holy place and the most holy." [Ex.26:33] Jesus IS the Temple and His death and resurrection removed the veil between God's children and God, the most Holy.

To "rent" #4977, as in the vail was rent, the rocks were rent means..."severed, opened, divide, split." The vail covering our Saviour was opened.


Revelation 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.


2 Corinthians 3:14-16 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.




4. Earth did quake, rocks were rent, into Thy hands I commend My spirit...all have spiritual meaning but this post is already longer than it should be.


I do ask you to consider this.....regarding a shaking and opening of graves.




Ezekiel 37:4 Again He said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the Lord.
5 Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.
8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.
9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord God; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.
10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.
11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.


When we hear and see the Words of the Lord...we live spiritually. We rise from our graves...we are brought into the land of the living.
Your post is quite long, and I'm sorry, I don't have time to reply in kind.....

But I would say.....often in scipture we find things running together in both physical and spiritual harmony. The people of Israel, being brought out of slavery...a spiritual foreshadowing of the reality Christ would bring...that sort of thing.
So, I do agree that we need to carefully consider each passage for both things. Often there is both there to find, and understanding that can bring such meaning! All of the parables, for example, are but 'physical' stories to illustrate a spiritual issue.

However, having said that, I do believe that we can be searching so hard for the spiritual meaning, we sometimes overspiritualise things. We are coming towards Christmas time...when we recognise the birth of Christ...God become a man. Now, I grant you, the coming of Jesus had staggering spiritual implications...but there is no getting around that when the bible says he was born...he was born physically of a woman!! And we must not look for a deeper depth in that simple physical act. It was an act that had to happen in order to further God's plan for mankind. Likewise, when Jesus died on a cross, it had huge spiritual implications...but in a way...in the physical realm, it was simple and brutal. Jesus needed to physically suffer and die.

I think the point I'm trying to get at is...it is very possible that those who came out of the grave, did so physically. We cannot disclude this in terms of what is possible or not, as clearly anything is possible for God. I don't think we can disclude it because the death of God incarnate was a spiritual matter...as clearly the spiritual side of things held hand in hand with physical ones. It could be seen that physcially these men rose from the grave, going into the city and creating more eyewitness accounts to show the magnitute of what had just happened. And we could say that just as the Exodus was a foreshadowing of what Christ was going to do for us, so to those people rising from their graves is a foreshadowing of what will happen to those who trust in Jesus.

So....just as it might be a mistake to only take everything in scripture as a physical fact, neglecting all the spiritual issues....I often think that trying to spiritualize everything and neglecting the physical could be a similar mistake. Consider: God made this world...its a world that holds spiritual elements....but there is no denying the physical aspects. We also need to consider that God decided to save manking by leaving a purely spiritual realm, and coming to this phsycial one....his birth, life, death and resurrection were all done in the physical....
 

Arnie Manitoba

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whirlwind said:
How do today's apostles and prophets.....raise the dead, heal the sick, cleanse and drive out demons?
The 12 Apostles are long gone .
The last prophet was John when he wrote Revelation

Please consider Arnie....when we believed...we were raised out of our graves, we were cleansed, we were healed.
heck .... I have not even been in the grave yet .... so how can I be raised from it
 

whirlwind

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Rach said:
Your post is quite long, and I'm sorry, I don't have time to reply in kind.....

But I would say.....often in scipture we find things running together in both physical and spiritual harmony. The people of Israel, being brought out of slavery...a spiritual foreshadowing of the reality Christ would bring...that sort of thing.
So, I do agree that we need to carefully consider each passage for both things. Often there is both there to find, and understanding that can bring such meaning! All of the parables, for example, are but 'physical' stories to illustrate a spiritual issue.



I agree for it is written:

1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.






However, having said that, I do believe that we can be searching so hard for the spiritual meaning, we sometimes overspiritualise things. We are coming towards Christmas time...when we recognise the birth of Christ...God become a man. Now, I grant you, the coming of Jesus had staggering spiritual implications...but there is no getting around that when the bible says he was born...he was born physically of a woman!! And we must not look for a deeper depth in that simple physical act. It was an act that had to happen in order to further God's plan for mankind. Likewise, when Jesus died on a cross, it had huge spiritual implications...but in a way...in the physical realm, it was simple and brutal. Jesus needed to physically suffer and die.



Searching hard for spiritual understanding is not the same as receiving spiritual understanding. The natural events happened first and were literal...they "happened unto them for examples" but after that the spiritual of the literal happens.

1 Corinthians 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

As Jesus literally had to physically suffer and die...it points to us that have to suffer and spiritually die/be crucified to be a son of God. The Only Begotten Son is the literal for the sons of God in a spiritual context. His literal event is our example.



I think the point I'm trying to get at is...it is very possible that those who came out of the grave, did so physically. We cannot disclude this in terms of what is possible or not, as clearly anything is possible for God. I don't think we can disclude it because the death of God incarnate was a spiritual matter...as clearly the spiritual side of things held hand in hand with physical ones. It could be seen that physcially these men rose from the grave, going into the city and creating more eyewitness accounts to show the magnitute of what had just happened. And we could say that just as the Exodus was a foreshadowing of what Christ was going to do for us, so to those people rising from their graves is a foreshadowing of what will happen to those who trust in Jesus.


Certainly all things are possible with God but....He tells us what will be. Lazarus was the literal for the spiritual. He was the example. When we physically die....

Ecclesiastes 12:6-7 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

1 Corinthians 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.


It is our celestial body, our spiritual self, that returns to God. Our literal flesh bodies will never be seen again. We are raised from our graves to be spiritually alive. This MUST take place while we are physically alive. Before His resurrection the "saints" had to wait to be raised but now...we are either spiritually living or spiritually dead while we walk under the sun.




So....just as it might be a mistake to only take everything in scripture as a physical fact, neglecting all the spiritual issues....I often think that trying to spiritualize everything and neglecting the physical could be a similar mistake. Consider: God made this world...its a world that holds spiritual elements....but there is no denying the physical aspects. We also need to consider that God decided to save manking by leaving a purely spiritual realm, and coming to this phsycial one....his birth, life, death and resurrection were all done in the physical....



Yes, His work as Jesus was done in the physical and yet His work as God in the form of the Holy Spirit continues spiritually in His physical children.


John 5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given Me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of Me, that the Father hath sent Me.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, He said, It is finished: and He bowed His head, and gave up the ghost.

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on Me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto My Father.


He came to do the work of the Father and to finish it. Upon His crucifixion He said, "it is finished" at which time He "gave up the ghost." He gave the Holy Spirit into the hands of God and we are those hands. We receive the Holy Spirit so that we too "do the works."


_________________________________________________________



Arnie Manitoba said:
The 12 Apostles are long gone .
The last prophet was John when he wrote Revelation


heck .... I have not even been in the grave yet .... so how can I be raised from it



An apostle simply means a sent one...there are many. Barnabus and Paul were apostles but were not of "the twelve."

Acts 14:14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,


God tells us that He sends apostles, prophets, teachers, etc. into the church...that is on-going. As for prophets:


Matthew 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.


My understanding of that is that there will be no new prophecy and no new law. It is finished. He said that He foretold us all things. However, as God tells us He will send prophets we must see it in a different light. To prophesy is to receive understanding/revelation/illumination from God and to speak as Divinely inspired. That is what today's prophets do. They don't speak of new events but rather teach the deeper spiritual meaning of what is already written as received from the Holy Spirit.


As for being in one's grave. I was in my grave and now I live. I was blind and now I see.
 

Dodo_David

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whirlwind said:
An apostle simply means a sent one...there are many.
Whirlwind, are you saying that a modern-day living Christian could also be an apostle?
 

whirlwind

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Dodo_David said:
Whirlwind, are you saying that a modern-day living Christian could also be an apostle?

No. God is saying this.


Ephesians 4:11-13 And He gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:


He anoints some to be apostles or prophets or evangelists, etc. for the reasons shown above. And...this is on-going for it is until "all come in the unity and knowledge of God."