Noah's Ark....Who was on Board?

whirlwind · Dec 9, 2013

Some believe that all men (all races) were derived from Noah and his family. Is that true? Is that possible? :huh:

I'll open the discussion of the ark with the following clue....

Genesis 7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

Dodo_David · Dec 9, 2013

How about we read that same verse in the context of the story.

Genesis 6:9-22 (NIV):

9 This is the account of Noah and his family.

Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked faithfully with God. 10 Noah had three sons: Shem, Ham and Japheth.

11 Now the earth was corrupt in God’s sight and was full of violence. 12 God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways. 13 So God said to Noah, “I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth. 14 So make yourself an ark of cypress wood . . . 17 I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish. 18 But I will establish my covenant with you, and you will enter the ark—you and your sons and your wife and your sons’ wives with you. 19 You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you. 20 Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive. 21 You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them.”

22 Noah did everything just as God commanded him.

Genesis 7:13-16 (NIV):

13 On that very day Noah and his sons, Shem, Ham and Japheth, together with his wife and the wives of his three sons, entered the ark. 14 They had with them every wild animal according to its kind, all livestock according to their kinds, every creature that moves along the ground according to its kind and every bird according to its kind,everything with wings. 15 Pairs of all creatures that have the breath of life in them came to Noah and entered the ark. 16 The animals going in were male and female of every living thing, as God had commanded Noah. Then the Lord shut him in.

Genesis 7:13-16 (NASB):

3 On the very same day Noah and Shem and Ham and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah’s wife and the three wives of his sons with them, entered the ark, 14 they and every beast after its kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth after its kind, and every bird after its kind, all sorts of birds. 15 So they went into the ark to Noah, by twos of all flesh in which was the breath of life. 16 Those that entered, male and female of all flesh, entered as God had commanded him; and the Lord closed it behind him.

Purity · Dec 9, 2013

whirlwind · Dec 9, 2013

Purity said:

LOL....too funny and...too true! But nevertheless what say ye?

Dodo_David said:
How about we read that same verse in the context of the story.

Genesis 6:9-22 (NIV):

Genesis 7:13-16 (NIV):

Genesis 7:13-16 (NASB):

Where was the question of the OP answered?

Purity · Dec 9, 2013

From Dodo's post we read language which describes the flood as to infer a global event, however can apply locally, as the following examples show.

‘all flesh’: Psalm 145:21, Isaiah 40:5; 66:23, Jeremiah 45:5, Ezekiel 20:48; 21:4, Joel 2:28
‘the face of the earth’: Genesis 4:14; 41:56, Exodus 10:5, Numbers 11:31; 22:5, 11, Isaiah 23:17, Jeremiah 25:26, Ezekiel 34:5; 38:20
‘The fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the wild beasts, all the things that creep on the ground’: Ezekiel 38:20

Equivalent phrases are also used non‐literally:

Deuteronomy 2:25, ‘all people under heaven’
1 Kings 18:10, ‘every nation and kingdom’
Ezekiel 38:20, ‘The fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the wild beasts, all the things that creep on the ground, and all people who live on the face of the earth’
Daniel 4:1; 5:19; 6:24, ‘all peoples, nations, and language groups’

Fundamentalism is rife today mainly due to the evangelical Christian/movement which prefers "confirmation bias" to form their beliefs rather than understanding that Scripture was not written to us but for us. Appreciating the cultural context is paramount is we are to discover a living truth.

Purity

Arnie Manitoba · Dec 9, 2013

whirlwind said:
Some believe that all men (all races) were derived from Noah and his family. Is that true? Is that possible? :huh:

I'll open the discussion of the ark with the following clue....

Genesis 7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

Lets keep this simple

Genesis 7: 15 is talking about animals

Please dont confuse that with Noah's family.

Dodo_David · Dec 9, 2013

Arnie Manitoba said:
Lets keep this simple

Genesis 7: 15 is talking about animals

Please dont confuse that with Noah's family.

I agree that Genesis 7:15 is talking about animals. That is why I cited the relevant verses that give the context of Genesis 7:15.

Dan57 · Dec 10, 2013

Purity said:
From Dodo's post we read language which describes the flood as to infer a global event, however can apply locally, as the following examples show.

‘all flesh’: Psalm 145:21, Isaiah 40:5; 66:23, Jeremiah 45:5, Ezekiel 20:48; 21:4, Joel 2:28

‘the face of the earth’: Genesis 4:14; 41:56, Exodus 10:5, Numbers 11:31; 22:5, 11, Isaiah 23:17, Jeremiah 25:26, Ezekiel 34:5; 38:20

‘The fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the wild beasts, all the things that creep on the ground’: Ezekiel 38:20

Equivalent phrases are also used non‐literally:

Deuteronomy 2:25, ‘all people under heaven’

1 Kings 18:10, ‘every nation and kingdom’

Ezekiel 38:20, ‘The fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the wild beasts, all the things that creep on the ground, and all people who live on the face of the earth’

Daniel 4:1; 5:19; 6:24, ‘all peoples, nations, and language groups’

Fundamentalism is rife today mainly due to the evangelical Christian/movement which prefers "confirmation bias" to form their beliefs rather than understanding that Scripture was not written to us but for us. Appreciating the cultural context is paramount is we are to discover a living truth.

Purity

I agree with the above, I personally think the flood was regional. The word "earth" used in these passages of Genesis is the Hebrew word "erets" (Strong's O.T. #776). Erets does not actually carry any connotation of a global, spherical planet in its translation. While it has been translated as "earth" many times, it is also translated "country" 140 times, "land" 1,476 times, and "ground" 96 times in the Old Testament. In the various references to erets it can be shown it is most often used to infer a limited land area rather than the entire planet.

Likewise, when we read about "all the hills" being covered or "all flesh" destroyed, it is referring to "all" that existed in the "whole" land or erets where the Flood was, not all that were on the planet earth. When God spoke of destroying "all flesh," He said he "will destroy them with the earth" (Gen. 6:13). The planet earth was not destroyed nor were all flesh on the planet, only that flesh and land (erets) where Noah lived was destroyed. The words "all," "whole" and "every" are not to be taken in a universal context.

http://www.orange-street-church.org/text/noah-flood.htm#2

whirlwind · Dec 10, 2013

Arnie Manitoba said:
Lets keep this simple

Genesis 7: 15 is talking about animals

Please dont confuse that with Noah's family.

There is no confusion in regards to the family of Noah.

The rest is rather simple to see if one looks. I provided an enormous clue in the OP.

______________________________________________________________________________________________

Purity said:
From Dodo's post we read language which describes the flood as to infer a global event, however can apply locally, as the following examples show.

‘all flesh’: Psalm 145:21, Isaiah 40:5; 66:23, Jeremiah 45:5, Ezekiel 20:48; 21:4, Joel 2:28

‘the face of the earth’: Genesis 4:14; 41:56, Exodus 10:5, Numbers 11:31; 22:5, 11, Isaiah 23:17, Jeremiah 25:26, Ezekiel 34:5; 38:20

‘The fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the wild beasts, all the things that creep on the ground’: Ezekiel 38:20

Equivalent phrases are also used non‐literally:

Deuteronomy 2:25, ‘all people under heaven’

1 Kings 18:10, ‘every nation and kingdom’

Ezekiel 38:20, ‘The fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the wild beasts, all the things that creep on the ground, and all people who live on the face of the earth’

Daniel 4:1; 5:19; 6:24, ‘all peoples, nations, and language groups’

Fundamentalism is rife today mainly due to the evangelical Christian/movement which prefers "confirmation bias" to form their beliefs rather than understanding that Scripture was not written to us but for us. Appreciating the cultural context is paramount is we are to discover a living truth.

Purity

Thank you Purity. My personal belief is it was a regional flood too but that doesn't relate to my question.

As for Scripture being written...I believe it was written both to and for us. "Us" being inclusive of all generations. The culture of the times I don't think has any relevance on the basic truth.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Dodo_David said:
I agree that Genesis 7:15 is talking about animals. That is why I cited the relevant verses that give the context of Genesis 7:15.

Your quote given from the NIV is a great demonstration of why I would NEVER USE IT. It DESTROYS the word of the Lord. In making it easier for man to understand it makes it easier for man to deceive...purposely or not.

NIV

Genesis 7:13-16 On that very day Noah and his sons, Shem, Ham and Japheth, together with his wife and the wives of his three sons, entered the ark. They had with them every wild animal according to its kind, all livestock according to their kinds, every creature that moves along the ground according to its kind and every bird according to its kind, everything with wings. Pairs of all creatures that have the breath of life in them came to Noah and entered the ark. The animals going in were male and female of every living thing, as God had commanded Noah. Then the Lord shut him in.

KJV
Genesis 7:13-16 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark; They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort. And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life. And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the Lord shut him in.

Biblical "beasts, cattle, creeping things and fowl" are not what the mis-translators of the NIV make them to be. I'm not going into it here but the BIG problem is with:

NIV - The animals going in were male and female of every living thing
KJV - They that went in, went in male and female of all flesh.

KJV: Genesis 7:15-16 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life. And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the Lord shut him in.

All flesh with the breath of life, male and female went into the ark with Noah: Why would you and the mis-translators not see that....Man is flesh with the breath of life.

Arnie Manitoba · Dec 10, 2013

So are you saying some of the races were brought onto the ark as animals (wild beasts)?

MichaelH · Dec 10, 2013

The NIV does have it's issues. One is that the Writers did not believe in any type of Monotheism Doctrine. Not that, it is a bad thing to not have a Monolistic doctrine but when you go out of your way to change scripture to prove it, then it's a bad thing.

(For those that don't know, they do not believe in Trinity, Modelism, Symbolism, or oneness) All Monotheism doctrines.

All mankind came from Noah as only Noah's family survived. Nothing else that breathed air lived, (Human wise) including any left over giants.
Peter made it very clear God judged and wiped out mankind once, and will do it again in the future.

Lets keep it simple.

whirlwind · Dec 10, 2013

Arnie Manitoba said:
So are you saying some of the races were brought onto the ark as animals (wild beasts)?

No.

MichaelH said:
The NIV does have it's issues. One is that the Writers did not believe in any type of Monotheism Doctrine. Not that, it is a bad thing to not have a Monolistic doctrine but when you go out of your way to change scripture to prove it, then it's a bad thing.

(For those that don't know, they do not believe in Trinity, Modelism, Symbolism, or oneness) All Monotheism doctrines.

All mankind came from Noah as only Noah's family survived. Nothing else that breathed air lived, (Human wise) including any left over giants.
Peter made it very clear God judged and wiped out mankind once, and will do it again in the future.

Lets keep it simple.

Hi MichaelH,

Thank you for that information about the NIV...providing even more reason to avoid it.

All mankind didn't come from Noah or from Adam. It is impossible for one race of man to produce another race of man. Therefore, when we see "all flesh with the breath of life," we should see all of the various races being included on the ark.

Purity · Dec 10, 2013

whirlwind said:
Thank you Purity. My personal belief is it was a regional flood too but that doesn't relate to my question.

As for Scripture being written...I believe it was written both to and for us. "Us" being inclusive of all generations. The culture of the times I don't think has any relevance on the basic truth.

The simple answer is no...its not plausible or likely all races came from Noah...or from Adam.

whirlwind · Dec 10, 2013

Purity said:
The simple answer is no...its not plausible or likely all races came from Noah...or from Adam.

Thank you. We are in agreement.

Purity · Dec 10, 2013

Dan57 said:
http://www.orange-street-church.org/text/noah-flood.htm#2

Excellent link thanks!

Dodo_David · Dec 10, 2013

MichaelH said:
The NIV does have it's issues. One is that the Writers did not believe in any type of Monotheism Doctrine. Not that, it is a bad thing to not have a Monolistic doctrine but when you go out of your way to change scripture to prove it, then it's a bad thing.

(For those that don't know, they do not believe in Trinity, Modelism, Symbolism, or oneness) All Monotheism doctrines.

whirlwind said:
Hi MichaelH,

Thank you for that information about the NIV...providing even more reason to avoid it.

The above-quoted claim about the NIV is is presented without any evidence to support it..

whirlwind said:
Your quote given from the NIV is a great demonstration of why I would NEVER USE IT. It DESTROYS the word of the Lord. In making it easier for man to understand it makes it easier for man to deceive...purposely or not.

You have not demonstrated that your above-quoted claim is true. All that you have done is compare the NIV to the KJV.

Neither English version of the Bible is the standard for comparison. The standard consists of the ancient Hebrew manuscripts and the Koiné Greek manuscripts.

Anyway, Genesis 7:15 is talking about the animals that were on the Ark.

Arnie Manitoba · Dec 11, 2013

Whiplash time

Some people do not think the flood was a worldwide event

They say it would take too much water to cover the whole earth

Well guess what folks .... 72% of the world is under water right now.

Only 28% is above water , and most of that is just a few feet above sea level.

Comparing the depths of the ocean to land makes even our mountains look miniscule

No scriptures were harmed in making this post
No imaginary spiritual interpretation was required in making this post

whirlwind · Dec 11, 2013

Dodo_David said:
The above-quoted claim about the NIV is is presented without any evidence to support it..

You have not demonstrated that your above-quoted claim is true. All that you have done is compare the NIV to the KJV.

Neither English version of the Bible is the standard for comparison. The standard consists of the ancient Hebrew manuscripts and the Koiné Greek manuscripts.

Anyway, Genesis 7:15 is talking about the animals that were on the Ark.

:huh: If you feel comfortable in being deceived...it is certainly your choice.

If you think the verse is speaking of animals...that too is certainly your choice. However, I will provide the pertinent verses for you to consider:

Genesis 6:3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

7:22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

Taking those verses into consideration....if man is flesh with the breath of life and man dwells on earth and God said that He would destroy ALL FLESH with the breath of life in earth and that all flesh would die and did die....then why does all flesh with the breath of life (which we know pertains to man) suddenly...no longer mean man?

We recognize that man (flesh with the breath of life) perished in the flood...we should also recognize that some, two and two of all flesh (various races) with the breath of life were taken into the ark.

____________________________________________________________________

Arnie Manitoba said:
Whiplash time

Some people do not think the flood was a worldwide event

They say it would take too much water to cover the whole earth

Well guess what folks .... 72% of the world is under water right now.

Only 28% is above water , and most of that is just a few feet above sea level.

Comparing the depths of the ocean to land makes even our mountains look miniscule

No scriptures were harmed in making this post
No imaginary spiritual interpretation was required in making this post

LOL...Whiplash.

You could certainly be correct Arnie. I don't teach otherwise because I just don't know. As I said, I believe the flood of Noah was in one geographic location whereas the first flood covered the world but as I said...I'm not certain.

However, the flood really isn't the subject of the thread. Rather it is the identity of those taken on board which is in connection to the various races in the world.

Arnie Manitoba · Dec 11, 2013

whirlwind said:
You could certainly be correct Arnie. I don't teach otherwise because I just don't know. As I said, I believe the flood of Noah was in one geographic location whereas the first flood covered the world but as I said...I'm not certain.

However, the flood really isn't the subject of the thread. Rather it is the identity of those taken on board which is in connection to the various races in the world.

Fair enough but you keep talking in riddles
And you keep quoting unrelated scripture
Then you revert to blaming certain translations of the bible.
Never once do you come right out and make your point
So why the constant smokescreen whirlwind ?

My answer to your question is yes , all the races of mankind would have originated within the genetics of the 8 family members of Noah

If indeed that was even your question in the first place.

Was it ?

whirlwind · Dec 11, 2013

Arnie Manitoba said:
Fair enough but you keep talking in riddles
And you keep quoting unrelated scripture
Then you revert to blaming certain translations of the bible.
Never once do you come right out and make your point
So why the constant smokescreen whirlwind ?

My answer to your question is yes , all the races of mankind would have originated within the genetics of the 8 family members of Noah

If indeed that was even your question in the first place.

Was it ?

The Scriptures aren't unrelated Arnie. There is no smokescreen. I'm not trying to talk in riddles. And, I'm not blaming other translations...I am suggesting that we should steer clear of them.

The point is other races (flesh with the breath of life) went on the ark with Noah and they went on male and female so the races could continue. What some see as "animals" due to Sunday School art work (giraffes, elephants, etc. walking up the plank) are actually people. The "unrelated Scriptures" tell us this truth.

May I ask how all races could come from one Adamic man and one Adamic wife?

Noah's Ark....Who was on Board?

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