Past and future sin?

Saul2paul · Dec 28, 2013

I hear pastors all the time talk about forgiveness for past sins if you give your life to Jesus. "There is nothing in your PAST that can't be forgiven. This translates in my head that once you accept it is complete. I sin everyday! May sound crazy but I REALLY struggle with this. Like if I sin I must have never accepted his forgiveness or I wouldn't sin anymore.

Thoughts?

Dodo_David · Dec 28, 2013

Saul2paul said:
I hear pastors all the time talk about forgiveness for past sins if you give your life to Jesus. "There is nothing in your PAST that can't be forgiven. This translates in my head that once you accept it is complete. I sin everyday! May sound crazy but I REALLY struggle with this. Like if I sin I must have never accepted his forgiveness or I wouldn't sin anymore.

Thoughts?

If you read what the Apostle Paul says about himself in Romans 7, then you will see that Paul, too, kept sinning despite the fact that he had become one of the Messiah's hand-picked Apostles.

Paul explains that there is an ongoing struggle between the desire of the Christian's spirit and the desire of the Christian's flesh.

In Romans 7:21-25 (ESV), Paul says the following:

[SIZE=.75em]21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand.[/SIZE] [SIZE=.75em]22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being,[/SIZE] [SIZE=.75em]23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members.[/SIZE] [SIZE=.75em]24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?[/SIZE] [SIZE=.75em]25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.[/SIZE]

As long as we remain in our corruptible moral bodies, our flesh will continue to want to do things that are sinful, while our spirit wants to do those things that conform to God's will.

An unsaved person sins all that he wants.

A saved person sins more than he wants, because he doesn't want to sin at all.

The difference is in the attitude of the person. The saved person has the right attitude despite the continuation of fleshly sins.

1 John 1:7-9 (ESV) says the following:

[SIZE=.75em]7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.[/SIZE] [SIZE=.75em]8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.[/SIZE] [SIZE=.75em]9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.[/SIZE]

Walking in the light doesn't mean that our flesh will never again sin. It means that we will be aware of such sins when they occur, and we will respond by confessing such sins and repenting.

aspen · Dec 28, 2013

i suggest that you focus on loving God and your neighbor rather than stopping bad behavior/sin. if you focus on not thinking about a pink elephant, it is all you think about. the key to stopping sin/selfishness in your life is to follow Christ by loving others/unselfishly/outwardly - if you love perfectly, sin is impossible. Finally, practice makes perfect and it takes a lifetime of practice/sanctification to love perfectly so ask for forgiveness when you fail. give youself a break, keep practicing!

Saul2paul · Dec 29, 2013

Awesome feedback! You people are great!

dadman · Feb 19, 2014

you must realize that all of your sins have been forgiven at the cross .. even the ones of tomorrow .. all your sins were future tense when Jesus died . . . when you sin .. don't ask God to do what he has already done .. there is no need to ask 'for' forgiveness .. but to acknowledge the sin .. thank him 'for' forgiving you .. pick yourself back up and move on ...... if your goal is to live a sinless life .. pray for death .. so long as you live in a body of flesh .. sin will be at your door to pull you in . . . therefore .. see this in a new light .. the goal of the Christian life is not to "quit sinning" but rather to start trusting . . . it's like the weeds in your yard .. you can spend all day pulling weeds .. and for whatever reason .. they return w/ new friends . . . if you spend your day planting grass .. the new grass will eventually choke out the weeds . . . . Jesus paying the debt for your sins is what allows you to receive his life .. we are not saved because our sins are forgiven .. we are saved because we have life in him .. but we would not be able to receive that life until he had first died on our behalf . . . I hope this makes sense . . . onward Christian soldier .. dadman

John 8:32 · Mar 4, 2014

If you read what the Apostle Paul says about himself in Romans 7, then you will see that Paul, too, kept sinning despite the fact that he had become one of the Messiah's hand-picked Apostles.

Paul explains that there is an ongoing struggle between the desire of the Christian's spirit and the desire of the Christian's flesh.

In Romans 7:21-25 (ESV), Paul says the following:

As long as we remain in our corruptible moral bodies, our flesh will continue to want to do things that are sinful, while our spirit wants to do those things that conform to God's will.

An unsaved person sins all that he wants.

A saved person sins more than he wants, because he doesn't want to sin at all.

The difference is in the attitude of the person. The saved person has the right attitude despite the continuation of fleshly sins.

1 John 1:7-9 (ESV) says the following:

Walking in the light doesn't mean that our flesh will never again sin. It means that we will be aware of such sins when they occur, and we will respond by confessing such sins and repenting.

If I may add a thought here. In the model prayer outline, Christ tells us to ask forgiveness every time we pray...

Mat 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

And how often should we pray?

Psa 55:16 As for me, I will call upon God; and the LORD shall save me.
Psa 55:17 Evening, and morning, and at noon, will I pray, and cry aloud: and he shall hear my voice.

Not only the sins we see but the ones we don't see...

Psa 19:12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.

Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

If we ask, God will show us our blatant sins and the secret faults we may not recognize in ourselves. Now this sounds rather negative and it would be if left here, so...

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Mungo · Mar 4, 2014

dadman said:
you must realize that all of your sins have been forgiven at the cross .. even the ones of tomorrow .. all your sins were future tense when Jesus died . . . when you sin .. don't ask God to do what he has already done .. there is no need to ask 'for' forgiveness .

That's not what the Bible teaches us.

We have to ask for forgiveness just as Jesus told us to (Mt 6:12) just as Peter told Simon (Acts 8:22). See also James 5:11, 1Jn 5:9, John 20:23.

dadman · Mar 5, 2014

Mungo said:
That's not what the Bible teaches us .. We have to ask for forgiveness just as Jesus told us to (Mt 6:12)

(Mt 6:12) when Jesus quoted this .. he had not yet paid for the sins of not only you and me .. but also for the sins of the whole world

Hebrews 9:22 “In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
What then are you asking God to do?

Is Christ going to come back and die again according to these verses?

I Peter 3:18 “For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God.
He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,…”

Hebrews 9:24-28 “For Christ did not enter a man-made sanctuary that was only a copy of the true one;
He entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence. Nor did He enter heaven to offer Himself again and again the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own.
Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now He has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of Himself. Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and He will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him.”

Hebrews 10:10-14 “And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.
But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, He sat down at the right hand of God.
Since that time He waits for His enemies to be made His footstool, because by one sacrifice He has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.”

.

Mungo · Mar 6, 2014

dadman said:
(Mt 6:12) when Jesus quoted this .. he had not yet paid for the sins of not only you and me .. but also for the sins of the whole world
.

Did he tell his disciples to stop making this prayer when he died?

Are you saying that this prayer is no longer valid?

Why did Mattew write this if it is no longer valid (or at least add not not to do it any more)?

dadman said:
(Mt 6:12) when Jesus quoted this .. he had not yet paid for the sins of not only you and me .. but also for the sins of the whole world

Hebrews 9:22 “In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
What then are you asking God to do?

Is Christ going to come back and die again according to these verses?

I Peter 3:18 “For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God.
He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,…”

Hebrews 9:24-28 “For Christ did not enter a man-made sanctuary that was only a copy of the true one;
He entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence. Nor did He enter heaven to offer Himself again and again the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own.
Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now He has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of Himself. Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and He will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him.”

Hebrews 10:10-14 “And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.
But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, He sat down at the right hand of God.
Since that time He waits for His enemies to be made His footstool, because by one sacrifice He has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.”
.

None of these say we no longer need to ask for forgiveness.

[SIZE=12pt]Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and they asked Peter and the other apostles, “What are we to do, my brothers?” Peter (said) to them, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] (Acts 2:37,38)[/SIZE].

Peter makes it very clear that we have to repent before we get forgiven our sins.

If everyone is already forgiven all their sins, past and future then everyone will be saved. That's universalism.

dadman · Mar 7, 2014

Mungo said:
Did he tell his disciples to stop making this prayer when he died?

Are you saying that this prayer is no longer valid? .... it's an issue of context and fulfillment

Why did Mattew write this if it is no longer valid (or at least add not not to do it any more)? ... he is quoting Jesus 'before' the cross

None of these say we no longer need to ask for forgiveness.

[SIZE=12pt] for the forgiveness of your sins[/SIZE]

The word "for" is not [ in order to ] but rather [ because of ] ..... your forgiveness is all past tense ....
PS: you are not saved because your sins are forgiven ... you are saved because you have received LIFE in his name .. 1 John 1:12
however .. you would not be able to receive his LIFE ... until Jesus had first paid for your sins (past-present-future) via his DEATH
again ... you would be asking God to "do" what he has already "done" ..... as far as payment for your sins are concerned .... it is finished

If you are in Christ .. what do you have according to Ephesians 1:7-8?

Ephesians 1:7-8 .. “In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins,
in accordance with the riches of God’s grace that He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding.”

Does it make sense, then, to continually ask for something you already have? .. Where is the forgiveness of sins found?
Are you in him? .. Since you have forgiveness, is there a need for another sacrifice for the sins you commit today or in the future according to Hebrews 10:17-18?

Hebrews 10:17-18 .. “Then He adds; ‘Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.’ And where these have been forgiven, there is no longer any sacrifice for sin.”

Mungo · Mar 8, 2014

dadman said:
Did he tell his disciples to stop making this prayer when he died?

Are you saying that this prayer is no longer valid? .... it's an issue of context and fulfillment

Why did Mattew write this if it is no longer valid (or at least add not not to do it any more)? ... he is quoting Jesus 'before' the cross

None of these say we no longer need to ask for forgiveness.

[SIZE=12pt] for the forgiveness of your sins[/SIZE]

The word "for" is not [ in order to ] but rather [ because of ] ..... your forgiveness is all past tense ....
PS: you are not saved because your sins are forgiven ... you are saved because you have received LIFE in his name .. 1 John 1:12
however .. you would not be able to receive his LIFE ... until Jesus had first paid for your sins (past-present-future) via his DEATH
again ... you would be asking God to "do" what he has already "done" ..... as far as payment for your sins are concerned .... it is finished

If you are in Christ .. what do you have according to Ephesians 1:7-8?

Ephesians 1:7-8 .. “In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins,
in accordance with the riches of God’s grace that He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding.”

Does it make sense, then, to continually ask for something you already have? .. Where is the forgiveness of sins found?
Are you in him? .. Since you have forgiveness, is there a need for another sacrifice for the sins you commit today or in the future according to Hebrews 10:17-18?

Hebrews 10:17-18 .. “Then He adds; ‘Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.’ And where these have been forgiven, there is no longer any sacrifice for sin.”

Click to expand...

I'm not sure if it's the way you have replied or the new grey look but I can't understand what is your reply.

I think I shall not bother with this forum any more until the readability issue is sorted out.

I think the new look is a disaster.

williemac · Mar 15, 2014

Mungo said:
[SIZE=12pt]Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and they asked Peter and the other apostles, “What are we to do, my brothers?” Peter (said) to them, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] (Acts 2:37,38)[/SIZE].

Peter makes it very clear that we have to repent before we get forgiven our sins.

If everyone is already forgiven all their sins, past and future then everyone will be saved. That's universalism.

In Gen.6:6 several translations use the word repent, in saying that God repented of making man. Did God sin? Of course not. The point is that repent does not mean to turn from sin. Repentance in the Greek comes from two base words...Meta, and Noia. Meta means change, and noia means mind. (ie,metamorphosis, paranoia ).. The word means to change. Period. God changed His mind about making man. This leads up to the flood, where He destroyed man upon the earth and started over with Noah and his family.

Whenever we see the word repent, the usual mistake that is made is to connect it automatically with sin. While there are contexts where it is connected with sin, there are also texts where it is not. Case in point:

In Acts, Peter had just told the crowd about the identity of Jesus and they were cut to the heart upon the news that they had rejected and killed their Messiah. Sin was not the subject. Jesus was the subject. When they asked what they should do, Peter told them to change their mind and turn to faith in Him, and rather be baptized in His name. That is all he said. Furthermore, he said that their sins would be remitted. That is the first mention of sin in the text.

The repentance that leads to salvation is that of a change of mind from unbelief to faith. Yes, there is an acknowledgment and a confession of sin that is part of the equation, but in reality, if we could successfully fully repent from sin then there would be no need to have our sin forgiven or taken away.

I have encountered those who object to this by assuming that I am saying repentance is not required. Then they will show places where the word is used and think that they are proving their point. But they usually are still using the wrong definition and can't seem to wrap their heads around the point that this is my point; It is all about the definition of the word.

It doesn't mean to turn from sin. It doesn't mean to quit sinning. It simply means to turn or change the mind. We cannot automatically associate it with sin unless sin is the subject matter of the word where the word is used. This is not always the case. A prime example of this is found in Heb.6:1, one of the foundations given was the repentance from dead works and faith toward God. This is not about sin. Sin is not considered a work. It is about the dead works of the law. The letter was written to those under the law. Their foundation was to turn from works... to faith, for justification. That is a repentance.

As for your point about universalism, your assumption is lacking clarity. "God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself , not imputing their trespasses against them" (2Cor.5:19) Is this universalism? One might make that case if there were no other information in the text. But we can see in context that God is pleading with the world for a response (vs.20). The passage reveals that the benefit of being forgiven is not applied automatically.

A man can propose to a woman, but this does not imply that marriage is automatically going to happen. It requires a favorable response from her. God did the work necessary to reconcile man to Himself, and is making a proposal. A response is required in order for the deal to be sealed. Universalism makes its error in its suggestion that no response is necessary. Forgiveness from God is not a guarantee of salvation. It is the basis, the starting point. It can be rejected, refused, or not believed.

shturt678 · May 14, 2014

Thank you folks for caring!

A concept of exponential import, ie, "Repentance" In the full contextual sense of the term, denotes the change away from realized sin in true contrition, ie, away from the POWER of sin to a true faith (Rom.3:19, 20). IOW turn from the power of sin to the faith, and not just turn to the faith as pervasively taught today.

Old sinful Jack

RANDOR · May 14, 2014

Dodo_David said:
If you read what the Apostle Paul says about himself in Romans 7, then you will see that Paul, too, kept sinning despite the fact that he had become one of the Messiah's hand-picked Apostles.

Paul explains that there is an ongoing struggle between the desire of the Christian's spirit and the desire of the Christian's flesh.

In Romans 7:21-25 (ESV), Paul says the following:

As long as we remain in our corruptible moral bodies, our flesh will continue to want to do things that are sinful, while our spirit wants to do those things that conform to God's will.

An unsaved person sins all that he wants.

A saved person sins more than he wants, because he doesn't want to sin at all.

The difference is in the attitude of the person. The saved person has the right attitude despite the continuation of fleshly sins.

1 John 1:7-9 (ESV) says the following:

Walking in the light doesn't mean that our flesh will never again sin. It means that we will be aware of such sins when they occur, and we will respond by confessing such sins and repenting.

Bravo.......well put

rjp34652@yahoo.com · Jul 3, 2014

Saul2paul said:
I hear pastors all the time talk about forgiveness for past sins if you give your life to Jesus. "There is nothing in your PAST that can't be forgiven. This translates in my head that once you accept it is complete. I sin everyday! May sound crazy but I REALLY struggle with this. Like if I sin I must have never accepted his forgiveness or I wouldn't sin anymore.

Thoughts?

The issue for this particular thread isn't forgiveness.....it's REPENTANCE.

If a struggle with sin continues, then repentance hasn't happened or it wasn't sincere, or the person isn't seeking God's help with removing it.

Flirtation with sin, under the assumption that salvation is a license to sin, is dangerous. Dangerous in the extreme. Did the reader get that?

DANGEROUS !!!

Forgiveness isn't what a lot of folks think it is. When the adulterous woman was caught in her sin, Jesus invited the first person who hadn't sinned to strike her. Nobody did, but that wasn't the end of the story by a long shot. A lot of folk who like to flirt with sin stop reading at that point - under the assumption that they've got a blank check to screw around all they want. Not true. Not at all.

God watches and God is no fool.

The adulterous woman was forgiven by Jesus, but the Master added a caveat to her attitude. He told her to go and sin no more. That's not the only such incident either. Over and over forgiven folk were told to sin no more. Why? Because if they continued to do so SOMETHING WORSE WOULD HAPPEN.

The OT is full of spiritual patterns laid down in the historical record of actual lives. The NT is more abstract. Either way, the principle is the same. Forgiveness means the Christian is now the slave of RIGHTEOUSNESS, not sin. And righteousness is VERY jealous of the right.

BEWARE O MAN - the second birth is not a license to sin.

What happens when a man continues to sin? Eventually God will abandon him to his sins and allow it to destroy him, sometimes to the point of death before his time.

NOBODY GOES BACK TO EGYPT.......EVER

Have you not read that judgment begins in the House of God? It does, and the Christian is MORE under the gun than any secular man. The Bible speaks of being 'cut off' early. The OT talks of wandering in a spiritual and physical desert until death. Want blessing from God? Put the damn sin away.

Why not hedge your bet and simply not become a Christian if such a person is more likely to be judged?

The first answer is easiest - eternal salvation isn't lost when a Christian sins, just ease upon the earth and possibly life itself.
The second answer requires faith - that life isn't easy for anybody and its always better to have a friend on the journey. There's no better friend than Jesus.
The third answer is greatest of all - sin creates a separation between the sinner, the sinning Christian and God.

No man can love sin and God at the same time.

Either he will love God and put the sin away - living in the blessings of God's grace.
OR he will flirt with sin and suffer the tortures of divine punishment in this life, right here and now and risk early death.

The forth answer is the saddest. The Christian who sins misses the sweet spirit of fellowship with God. It has nothing to do with worldly prosperity, self-image or popularity among men. It has everything to do with knowing the delicious whispers of the Holy Spirit and His companionship.

Choose wisely, Christian.

Repent and bury your pet sins. Do it today. The time is short and sin waits eagerly to destroy you. Why waste such a great salvation?

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

Madad21 · Jul 3, 2014

[email protected] said:
The adulterous woman was forgiven by Jesus, but the Master added a caveat to her attitude. He told her to go and sin no more. That's not the only such incident either. Over and over forgiven folk were told to sin no more. Why? Because if they continued to do so SOMETHING WORSE WOULD HAPPEN.

Yes!!

Matthew 8:1-4 ( NIV)
When he came down from the mountainside large crowds followed him. A man with leprosy came and knelt before him and said “Lord if you are willing, you can make me clean.” Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man, “I am willing” he said “be clean!” Immediately he was cured of his leprosy. Then Jesus said to him, “See that you don’t tell anyone. But go, show yourself to the priest and offer the gift Moses commanded, as a testimony to them”

Yes He grants forgiveness this is why he is willing for anyone who requests it, but the command is for the man to “be clean”, or sin no more. When we come to Christ we are also commanded to be clean by turning away from our sins.

aspen · Jul 4, 2014

i think we approach sin a Gods forgiveness in the wrong way. I ve been taught that God offers his forgiveness sort of like a person offers to shake your hand.....if you fail to accept his hand he will make a fist and strike you dead with it, just like he took vengenge on his own son as a scapegoat for our sin

i reject this because it is the character of an abusive parent. instead, i believe Jesus loved us to death. he gave everything in order to show how much God loves us that he died. Sort of like the Giving Tree - and, unfortunately many of us still do not understand that all sin - past, present, future are forgiven. There is nothing more to rebel against, so to speak. You are only tempted to cheat on your taxes if penalties are enforced and you want to hide from them. Unfortunately, our guilt and shame keep us prisoners in our sin. God has prepared a feast for us and we are all invited to the table to eat, but we do not recognise that we are worthy enough in Gods eyes to eat. God will not force us to eat - that would be just as abusive as punishment for not eating. Unfortunately, not everyone seated at the table will be saved from starving. instead they will continue in the mindset of the pharisee, who believed ritual and superstition was needed to stave off an angry God and they will starve in their unbelief.

go and sin no more, is not a warning. it is an invitation to stop starving yourself and start feasting.

Webers_Home · Sep 4, 2014

aspen said:
i reject this because it is the character of an abusive parent.

Had the Bible's Jesus been a minor child when he went to the cross;
you might have a case against its Father; but the Bible's Christ wasn't
a minor child, no; he was a consenting adult past 30 years of age.

Now, something you may, or may not, have known is that the Bible's
Jesus was micromanaged. In other words; nothing he did while he was
here was his own ideas; especially the cross.

†. John 6:38 . . I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will,
but the will of Him who sent me.

†. John 8:28 . . I do nothing on my own initiative

†. John 8:29 . . He that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me
alone; for I do always those things that please Him.

†. John 10:30 . . I and my Father are unified.

†. Matt 26:39 . . My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me;
yet not as I will, but as You will.

†. Isa 53:10 . . It pleased Yhvh to bruise him; He has put him to grief:

Buen Camino.
/

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Past and future sin?

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