Is homosexuality right or wrong? A closer look...

Lilly Campton · Jan 5, 2014

I am a 16 year old Christian girl and I have always been WHOLLY against homosexuality until I saw this video of a young man speaking about this controversial subject:
Some parts I do not agree on, the parts that involve his personal opinion, but there is no arguing with scripture and that is what he brings to the table. He takes every verse involving homosexuality and finds other verses in the Bible that make homosexuality seem ok. I only say seem because I don't change my views on a subject until I hear both sides THOROUGHLY such as the pro gay side of this argument. He talks for a good hour and I recommend seeing the whole thing before coming to me with answers. Basically, before I make up my mind about homosexuality being wrong or not, I want someone to see this video, listen to the scripture he uses to validate homosexuality, and come and tell me if you know another verse in the Bible that makes his validating verse void (a verse that still makes homsexuality wrong instead of right like he's arguing.)

The reason why I was looking this up is because my best friend has been showing signs of being gay since she was in the 5th grade. She told me in the fifth grade that she was gay and I just thought it was some phase, but apparently it wasn't because things have gotten worse. She has a girlfriend and she spends holidays with her and stuff and we have been communicating every 2 weeks or less through text, but it has become less and less because I am not that comfortable about it. My family have been in the Penecostal Holiness church for their entire life and I know they aren't going to be excepting of that. My parents don't know yet and it's been over a year since I invited her over my house last because of it. It pretty much confirmed her homosexuality once she said she had a girlfriend.

I would also like some feedback on my problem with my friend based on the video you've seen and the scripture you've found making that young man's argument wrong.

lforrest · Jan 5, 2014

The rules of this site forbid posting links when you have less than 10 posts, so don't be surprised if the link is removed from your post.

I have made a summary of his arguments and these are below. If you think these are insufficient please feel free to elaborate on them.

1. Matthew 7:17-18 Good teachings have good consequences, and are not destructive.

2. Genesis 2:18 Declaring that abstinence for homosexuals is Good, when God said it is not good to be alone.

3. Genesis 18:20-21 The reason Sodom was destroyed was due to their cruel treatment of outsiders.
Ezekiel 16:49 Supporting above argument.
Jude 7 Does not support above argument. However the speaker doesn't believe it refers to monogamous relationships.

4. Leviticus 18:22 The Old Testament law does not apply to Christians. Abominations are culturally specific, and it doesn't determine if something is good or bad.
Colossians 2:13-14 Supporting.
Leviticus 18:19 Supporting.

5. Romans 1:26-27 Argument that homosexuals are born that way, so there is no change from the natural to the un-natural.
Romans 1:18-20 Anogulous Supporting.
1 Corinthians 11:13-15 Proposes that nature refers to social custom, and applies that to Romans 1:26-27.

6. 1 Corinthians 6:9 Speaker proposes that the Greek word 'malakos' is mistranslated.
1 Timothy 1:9-10 Similar issue with translation of 'arsenokoitai' And proposes that it refers to male prostitution.

I will not respond to them at this time, but if no good rebuttals are provided this day I may chime in more than the following:

The speaker tries to justify homosexuality by looking for excuses so the scriptures do not apply to him. But if there is any doubt that homosexuality is a sin, then it is a sin. Can you honestly say that the gratification of your flesh is good? If you can not say it is good, then it is a sin. Romans 14:22-23

mjrhealth · Jan 5, 2014

I shall make this as simple as I can.

Eve ate of the tree of good and evil as did Adam, this caused man to fall from grace, than sin and death came into this world. And so the world is in decay. Because of this.

People are born deformed.
Some are born crazy,
Some are born blind, deaf or dumb some suffer many ailments,

It is not their choice, it is the fall of man and decay that has caused this,

So the best you can do is stop judging her and do what Christ has asked all to do,"LOVE HER".

If you cant do that, than pray for God to forgive you.

In all His Love

Quantrill · Jan 5, 2014

lforrest said:
The rules of this site forbid posting links when you have less than 10 posts, so don't be surprised if the link is removed from your post.

I have made a summary of his arguments and these are below. If you think these are insufficient please feel free to elaborate on them.

1. Matthew 7:17-18 Good teachings have good consequences, and are not destructive.

2. Genesis 2:18 Declaring that abstinence for homosexuals is Good, when God said it is not good to be alone.

3. Genesis 18:20-21 The reason Sodom was destroyed was due to their cruel treatment of outsiders.
Ezekiel 16:49 Supporting above argument.
Jude 7 Does not support above argument. However the speaker doesn't believe it refers to monogamous relationships.

4. Leviticus 18:22 The Old Testament law does not apply to Christians. Abominations are culturally specific, and it doesn't determine if something is good or bad.
Colossians 2:13-14 Supporting.
Leviticus 18:19 Supporting.

5. Romans 1:26-27 Argument that homosexuals are born that way, so there is no change from the natural to the un-natural.
Romans 1:18-20 Anogulous Supporting.
1 Corinthians 11:13-15 Proposes that nature refers to social custom, and applies that to Romans 1:26-27.

6. 1 Corinthians 6:9 Speaker proposes that the Greek word 'malakos' is mistranslated.
1 Timothy 1:9-10 Similar issue with translation of 'arsenokoitai' And proposes that it refers to male prostitution.

I will not respond to them at this time, but if no good rebuttals are provided this day I may chime in more than the following:

The speaker tries to justify homosexuality by looking for excuses so the scriptures do not apply to him. But if there is any doubt that homosexuality is a sin, then it is a sin. Can you honestly say that the gratification of your flesh is good? If you can not say it is good, then it is a sin. Romans 14:22-23

Homosexuality is a sin and an abomination against God. As to the points made:

1.Homosexuality is not a good teaching and doesn't have good consequences.

2. Just because it is not good for man to be alone, doens't mean it's good for man to be homosexual.

3. That Sodom was destroyed due to pride and ideleness, etc., does not make homosexuality right. It reflects on homosexuality however that pride and other iniquity is associated with it.

4. That Christians are not under the Law in no way means the Law is incorrect. It is correct. Homosexualilty is still an abomination to God. But we as Christians have no authority as the Church, to execute homosexuals because we are not under the Law. We do have authority to say as the Law says, that homosexuality is wrong and a great perversion.

5. No, Rom. 1:26-27 does not say homosexuals are born that way. Its a digression of sin starting with rejecting God. Read the whole chapter.

6. I see no connection at all with these verses and homosexuality.

Tell your friend she is wrong becasue Scripture is clear that homosexuality is an abomination to God. Then separate yourself from her and her lifestyle.

Quantrill

Dodo_David · Jan 5, 2014

People who wish to engage in sexual activity with others of the same gender are going to try to twist Scripture into allowing them to engage in such activity.

They may even make videos aimed at convincing naive people to accept homosexual behavior.

When one bases orthodoxy on whatever is emotionally pleasing - or on whatever won't upset one's friends and family - one is vulnerable to believing anything that is emotionally pleasing, such as a video that twists and misinterprets Scriptures.

The Apostle Paul makes it quite clear that God is opposed to sexual activity between two people of the same gender.

mjrhealth · Jan 5, 2014

Tell your friend she is wrong because Scripture is clear that homosexuality is an abomination to God. Then separate yourself from her and her lifestyle

Let those without sin cast the first stone, the first has being thrown, who would like to join in. You have assumed. "All" sin leads to death, are you without sin, or has Jesus only forgiven you and not her, or does Jesus love her any less than you.

Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Mat 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

We are called to love, all that is in that last post is hate and condemnation.

1Jn_4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

In all His Love

Dodo_David · Jan 5, 2014

Lilly Campton said:
I am a 16 year old Christian girl and I have always been WHOLLY against homosexuality until I saw this video of a young man speaking about this controversial subject:
Some parts I do not agree on, the parts that involve his personal opinion, but there is no arguing with scripture and that is what he brings to the table. He takes every verse involving homosexuality and finds other verses in the Bible that make homosexuality seem ok. I only say seem because I don't change my views on a subject until I hear both sides THOROUGHLY such as the pro gay side of this argument. He talks for a good hour and I recommend seeing the whole thing before coming to me with answers. Basically, before I make up my mind about homosexuality being wrong or not, I want someone to see this video, listen to the scripture he uses to validate homosexuality, and come and tell me if you know another verse in the Bible that makes his validating verse void (a verse that still makes homsexuality wrong instead of right like he's arguing.)

The reason why I was looking this up is because my best friend has been showing signs of being gay since she was in the 5th grade. She told me in the fifth grade that she was gay and I just thought it was some phase, but apparently it wasn't because things have gotten worse. She has a girlfriend and she spends holidays with her and stuff and we have been communicating every 2 weeks or less through text, but it has become less and less because I am not that comfortable about it. My family have been in the Penecostal Holiness church for their entire life and I know they aren't going to be excepting of that. My parents don't know yet and it's been over a year since I invited her over my house last because of it. It pretty much confirmed her homosexuality once she said she had a girlfriend.

I would also like some feedback on my problem with my friend based on the video you've seen and the scripture you've found making that young man's argument wrong.

Lily, the young man's argument is wrong. The Apostle Paul makes it clear that God disapproves of sex between two people of the same gender.

It pains me to say this, but I suspect that your closeness to your lesbian friend is interfering with your ability to be objective when it comes to the Bible's teaching about homosexual behavior ...

... and I am emphasizing behavior, because we choose how we behave.

You can love your friend with a godly love without condoning her homosexual behavior.

If your friend has never asked the LORD Jesus to enter her life and save her, then her sexual behavior is a secondary issue. It is foolish to expect spiritual fruit from someone who is spiritually dead.

mjrhealth · Jan 5, 2014

Oh so let me see.

Its ok to be born with 4 eyes, co joined, no legs, mongaloid, distorted, mindless, as this happens because of decay, but whoa that you be born with your emotions all mixed up. Oh so all sin is bad but homosexualtiy is the worst of them all??? must be so many christians love to condemn them. I hope Christ doesnt Judge you the same.

A sinner.

In all His Love

GISMYS · Jan 5, 2014

YES!!! The abomination of sick sexual perversion is a "COMPOUND" sin. Compound sin because those that choose to live in sick sexual perversion want to try to claim that their life of sin is not sin thus they deny the truth of GOD'S WORD which says clearly that it is sin.

day · Jan 5, 2014

"Proof-texting" or taking isolated verses out of context can make the Bible support any thing you want it to. You can search the Bible to justify what you want to do, or you can search it to find what God wants you to do. It all depends on whether you love yourself or God. Remember that at the Judgement you will not be able to convince God he did not mean what he said.

logabe · Jan 5, 2014

Lilly... Some people are born that way because of the fall of Adam. Others have
been influenced by that behavior because it is their friend or someone they look
up to doing it.

The question is... do you love that individual? Will she/he influence you or will it
be the other way around. If you are being influenced by the behavior you should
separate yourself until you are strong enough in God to influence that person.

I was a drug addict and God delivered me from that weakness. I couldn't be around
my former friends because I could be influenced to go back into that same life that
God had delivered me from. But, after living for God and Him teaching me His ways,
I went back and ministered to these same friends and God delivered them.

I have friends and family living a homosexual life today, because of the fall of Adam.
Do I judge them for their behavior? Nope, I love them, and I pray for them that God
will have mercy and deliver them from their sin. They are living that way because of
Adam. I was a drug addict because of Adam. 1st Cor. 5:19 says,

19 For by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so
by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

God is in the process of delivering many people of their sin. God uses us to carry out
his plan and purpose for this earth. We can't get all worked up about some specific sin
and miss the big picture of God restoring mankind.

So my answer want be very popular on this forum, but grow in grace and in the knowledge
of Jesus Christ, so you can be used of God to be a mediator between your friend and God,
and show love to all people and God will take care of the rest.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

lforrest · Jan 5, 2014

mjrhealth said:
Oh so let me see.

Its ok to be born with 4 eyes, co joined, no legs, mongaloid, distorted, mindless, as this happens because of decay, but whoa that you be born with your emotions all mixed up. Oh so all sin is bad but homosexualtiy is the worst of them all??? must be so many christians love to condemn them. I hope Christ doesnt Judge you the same.

A sinner.

In all His Love

Emotions are irrelevant, as the author of the video conceded. The argument in the video was that monogamous homosexual behavior is not forbidden by the bible. When someone twists scripture to say something is good which God considers an abomination that is a serious problem. Isaiah 5:20

There are also different types of judgement. As BiggAndyy recommend to me, I will also recommend to anyone else interested in the subject. "Judging When? Why? How?" by Derek Prince.

GISMYS · Jan 5, 2014

GOD'S WORD in Romans I:21-32 gets pretty "worked up" about the sin of sexual perversion.

Let us just believe GOD'S WORD!!! in 1 corinthians 6:9-10 GOD'S WORD says homosexuals WILL NOT inherit the kingdom of GOD!

Raeneske · Jan 5, 2014

mjrhealth said:
I shall make this as simple as I can.

Eve ate of the tree of good and evil as did Adam, this caused man to fall from grace, than sin and death came into this world. And so the world is in decay. Because of this.

People are born deformed.
Some are born crazy,
Some are born blind, deaf or dumb some suffer many ailments,

It is not their choice, it is the fall of man and decay that has caused this,

So the best you can do is stop judging her and do what Christ has asked all to do,"LOVE HER".

If you cant do that, than pray for God to forgive you.

In all His Love

Does the Bible say that those who are deformed, crazy, etc. will not inherit the Kingdom of God? No. But the Bible does tell us that homosexuals shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Whether one is born homosexual or not, is not the issue. There is power in the blood of Christ to free someone from homosexuality. He will do so if that person so chooses to allow Christ into their life to work miracles in their hearts, in their minds, and in their feelings. It is not a judgment to say homosexuals shall not enter into the kingdom, anymore than it is a judgment to say that fornicators shall not enter into the kingdom. It's truth from the Bible. If one has an argument with what is written, then they should take that argument up with God.

I agree, one should love the struggling homosexual. But if you don't tell that homosexual they are about to walk into a fire by disregarding the plain warnings of Scripture, then they are going to head straight for eternal damnation. And that is NOT WHAT I WANT TO HAPPEN! If you want to save that soul, love them, pray for them, etc. But don't tell them lies like their sin is okay, when it's not.

Lilly Campton said:
I am a 16 year old Christian girl and I have always been WHOLLY against homosexuality until I saw this video of a young man speaking about this controversial subject:
Some parts I do not agree on, the parts that involve his personal opinion, but there is no arguing with scripture and that is what he brings to the table. He takes every verse involving homosexuality and finds other verses in the Bible that make homosexuality seem ok. I only say seem because I don't change my views on a subject until I hear both sides THOROUGHLY such as the pro gay side of this argument. He talks for a good hour and I recommend seeing the whole thing before coming to me with answers. Basically, before I make up my mind about homosexuality being wrong or not, I want someone to see this video, listen to the scripture he uses to validate homosexuality, and come and tell me if you know another verse in the Bible that makes his validating verse void (a verse that still makes homsexuality wrong instead of right like he's arguing.)

The reason why I was looking this up is because my best friend has been showing signs of being gay since she was in the 5th grade. She told me in the fifth grade that she was gay and I just thought it was some phase, but apparently it wasn't because things have gotten worse. She has a girlfriend and she spends holidays with her and stuff and we have been communicating every 2 weeks or less through text, but it has become less and less because I am not that comfortable about it. My family have been in the Penecostal Holiness church for their entire life and I know they aren't going to be excepting of that. My parents don't know yet and it's been over a year since I invited her over my house last because of it. It pretty much confirmed her homosexuality once she said she had a girlfriend.

I would also like some feedback on my problem with my friend based on the video you've seen and the scripture you've found making that young man's argument wrong.

The Word of God is against homosexuality. It tells us that homosexuals shall not inherit the Kingdom of God. I know people can twist things to make it seem like things are okay that really aren't okay. But please, consider the context of what they are saying in the videos, and consider the context of the Scriptures they are using to support their views. For example, the Word of God plainly tells us that homosexuals shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

It also tells us that same-sex attractions are vile affections.

Romans 1:26-27 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Notice, even the women changed the natural use into that which is against nature. When we look at nature, when we look at creation, we should be able to see that God created male and female humans. God created Adam, and then created Adam's helpmeet which was a female. He told them to be fruitful and multiply. This is natural. Homosexuality is not natural. Verse 27 shows men leaving the natural use of women, and then burn in lust towards each other, working that which is unseemly. For someone to say this it talking about something other than homosexuality is taking these verses completely and utterly out of context.

As for Sodom and Gomorrah, it doesn't come outright and say all these people are homosexuals. But let us consider even the word Sodomy, which comes from Sodom. It is applied to homosexuals. Not only that, but the Bible does tell us they were after strange flesh. Sure they were going after angels, but they didn't see angels. They saw men that they wanted to have sex with. And when offered to have Lot's daughters, they became angry. Plain and simple - they wanted to have sex with men, not women.

I have not seen the video, but I responded to some of the points posted by lforrest.

mjrhealth · Jan 5, 2014

And the christians and the pharisses stood around the women, with stones in their hands ready to stone her to death because the "bible" said they had the right to do so, but the one who is the truth, Jesus Christ stood in silence and wrote upon the ground, and one by one the "sinners" left for they where condemned,

Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

yet Jesus turned to the one who was bing condmend by the pharisses and christans and said, is there anyone to condemn you? and she said no Lord I see none, and He said, neither do I condmen you.

And Jesus was found amongst the sinners and publiccans for as He said, I came to save the sick, for those who are well do not need a physician. But no not the christians, they must run away from them, and be not like Jesus and still they choose the law and the old ways.

In all His Love

Lilly Campton · Jan 5, 2014

I will be posting a more detailed review of this young man's message in an hour or two to provide more clarity. Also, if I seem hateful those are not my intentions. I simply want to know the TRUTH about homosexuality before approaching her. As of right now I am actually very neutral on the subject and I see neutral as lukewarm and I don't like lukewarm. It's either wrong or it's not. I don't want to condone homosexuality if it is wrong and I do not want to be against it if it's alright. I am simply seeking clarity and don't want to address the subject if all that's going to come out of my mouthe is foolishness. Most of the time the majority is right amd sometimes they are wrong. This is my dilemma here. Hate is no problem of mine. Homosexuality bothers me because I am ignorant of its correctness.

mjrhealth · Jan 5, 2014

Hi Lily, if you want to stay away from sinners, than go into a room lock the door ans spend you life with yourself a sinner. DOnt you see. christains always pick on teh homosexuals as if their sin is any lesss athn theirs, but they do not iknow why that person is the way they are, they just choose to be ignorant much to their demise. You can love her as Christ does or reject her and be rejected by Christ yourself, its that simple. Be a firend as Christ is.

in all His Love

GISMYS · Jan 5, 2014

Most all thieves,murderers and other sinners will admit their actions are sins and not try to say their sins are not condemed in GOD'S WORD but the sinner living in sexual perversion compounds his sin by saying his sin is not sin and then compounds his sin more by trying to deny that GOD'S WORD on sexual perversion is not true!!!!

Dodo_David · Jan 5, 2014

Lilly Campton said:
I will be posting a more detailed review of this young man's message in an hour or two to provide more clarity. Also, if I seem hateful those are not my intentions. I simply want to know the TRUTH about homosexuality before approaching her. As of right now I am actually very neutral on the subject and I see neutral as lukewarm and I don't like lukewarm. It's either wrong or it's not. I don't want to condone homosexuality if it is wrong and I do not want to be against it if it's alright. I am simply seeking clarity and don't want to address the subject if all that's going to come out of my mouthe is foolishness. Most of the time the majority is right amd sometimes they are wrong. This is my dilemma here. Hate is no problem of mine. Homosexuality bothers me because I am ignorant of its correctness.

Lilly, if your friend doesn't worship Messiah Jesus as Savior and Lord, then her sexual behavior is a secondary issue. An unsaved homosexual should be treated the same way that an unsaved heterosexual should be treated.

Clearly, the Apostle Paul tells us that it is sinful for two people of the same gender to be sexually active with each other.
People who aren't born-again Christians aren't going to care whether or not they are sinning, because they have no desire to please God.

So, how are we who worship Messiah Jesus to respond to the sinful behavior of non-Christians?

Well, we don't participate in the behavior, and we certainly don't say that the behavior is acceptable to God.

Asking God for wisdom to deal with such behavior is a good place to start. In James 1:5, the Apostle James tells us, "If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you."

GISMYS · Jan 5, 2014

If you read GOD'S WORD ROMANS 1:21-32 AND 1 CORINTHIANS 6:9-10 YOU WILL HAVE NO DOUBTS ABOUT WHAT GOD'S WORD HAS TO SAY ABOUT SEXUAL PERVERSION.

Is homosexuality right or wrong? A closer look...

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