How Sure Are You Of Going To Hell?

Webers_Home · Jan 13, 2014

.
No doubt there are rational people out and about who have come to the
logical conclusion-- quite correctly --that God has set the bar so high; that
He's made it impossible to attain heaven; so what's the point in even trying.
These people have resigned themselves to hell.

And there are others who have decided that as bad as hell might be, it would
be even worse to squander this life in self denial and quite possibly end up
going to hell anyway. These people have decided to that it's better to live a
life of pleasure here and a life of no pleasure there, rather than run the risk of
having no pleasure in both places. I have to agree: that would be sad.

And there are those in a clash of wills with God. In other words: they are so
determined not to give in to God's demands that they would rather be
cremated alive than do so. In their minds: if they give in; then God will win;
which for them is not only unacceptable; but thoroughly intolerable. Those
people are tough; just as tough as the anti-commie crowd who proudly
announce: Better dead than Red, and/or the pro-gun people who defiantly
announce: If you want my guns; you'll have to pry them loose from my cold,
dead fingers.

I'm not saying it's bad to be anti-commie, nor bad to be pro-gun. I'm just
using those people's attitude to illustrate the bitter impasse going on
between God and those who would rather reign in hell than serve in heaven.

Then there are people who have actually chosen hell over heaven because in
hell they'll fit in; but in heaven they wouldn't fit in. They'll be amongst
friends in hell; but in heaven, everyone would be a stranger. And like they
say: birds of a feather flock together; viz: some prefer the company of
certain kinds of rather unsavory folk; and people in heaven are so heavenly
minded that they're no fun to be with at all. In addition: people in hell
are free to speak their minds, and use all the purple epithets, double
entendres, colorful metaphors, and F-bombs that they want; but in heaven
people have to be careful with their choice of words.

So you see; for some folk hell is the better choice; and were they to end up
in heaven instead; I think they would actually be very disappointed.

Buen Camino
/

Angelina · Jan 13, 2014

whats your point... <_< are you trying to be encouraging cos you're not doing a very good job

Webers_Home · Jan 13, 2014

Angelina said:
whats your point

I just thought it might be fun and/or interesting to talk about people for
whom hell is their choice rather than their luck.

Buen Camino
/

lforrest · Jan 13, 2014

I don't know of anyone that has resigned themselves to hell thinking they could never meet God's high standards.

Webers_Home said:
And there are others who have decided that as bad as hell might be, it would
be even worse to squander this life in self denial and quite possibly end up
going to hell anyway. These people have decided to that it's better to live a
life of pleasure here and a life of no pleasure there, rather than run the risk of
having no pleasure in both places. I have to agree: that would be sad.

Why would this be sad? Pleasure is meaningless after it has been had, all it leaves you with is a want for more.

Moreover, wouldn't it give the ones whom deny themselves and still end up in hell something to hold over on God, so they can mock him for the rest of eternity? They would say, "look at the reward God has given me for the hardships I endured in his service." Nah, God will be proven just before all. To these he would show their error, and they would have no cause to mock.

aspen · Jan 13, 2014

I think a bigger problem is believing that Hell is going to be simply a torture chamber for immoral people who like to use the f word a lot. And that Heaven is a place for morally uptight and rigid minded people who have committed their life on Earth to denying emotions and desires and rigidly holding on to words in a book.

This is what I run into the most.

In reality, Heaven is a place where redeemed people will love each other and God, perfectly. We will have a full range of emotions and desires and it will all be for God. We will be vulnerable with everyone, as we were in the Garden

Hell is a place for people that choose fear over vulnerability, pride over reliance on God and neighbor, and self preservation over selflessness.

KingJ · Jan 14, 2014

Interesting discussion Weber.

I believe that nobody believes God is bad. Atheists will say it all day long, but even an atheist believes in God and a good God when he looks in the mirror

. We see God's goodness all around us everyday! It is God's goodness that makes man intriniscly not fear Him or hell. Now that is not such a bad thing. As God is indeed good, He is not bad. I like how Jonah said it Jonah 4:2 I knew that you are a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abounding in love, a God who relents from sending calamity.

The schock I feel people who go to hell are in for is when they grasp just how evil their hearts are. People en-route to hell do not judge themselves properly. They assume they are good but their hearts are full of pride. They enjoy this earth because there are good people to step on and hurt. When they all in hell and only with people full of pride like them....God doesn't even need to do anything imho. Rather He has to intervene to protect some from others. Exactly like what happens amongst prisoners today. Even if they are allowed outdoors and not cramped up in a cell, their neighbours will always be people / angels full of pride....for all eternity. My heart goes out to them.

I see the heaven vs hell choice as simple as selflessnes vs selfishness.

I think a good discussion to have is....What will people do in hell once they are done with suffering? Since most of us do not believe in universal salvation or annihilation and we all believe God is good. Meaning temporal suffering is very possible.

aspen said:
I think a bigger problem is believing that Hell is going to be simply a torture chamber for immoral people who like to use the f word a lot. And that Heaven is a place for morally uptight and rigid minded people who have committed their life on Earth to denying emotions and desires and rigidly holding on to words in a book.

This is what I run into the most.

In reality, Heaven is a place where redeemed people will love each other and God, perfectly. We will have a full range of emotions and desires and it will all be for God. We will be vulnerable with everyone, as we were in the Garden

Hell is a place for people that choose fear over vulnerability, pride over reliance on God and neighbor, and self preservation over selflessness.

Agreed. The underlined is interesting. I don't see God as sadistic / evil minded to the point that He would create torture devices or torture realms like 'Dante's nine circles of hell'. I think suffering for sins is going to be dead simple. A fire with different heats burning at a certain degree.

Webers_Home · Jan 14, 2014

Webers_Home said:
I just thought it might be fun and/or interesting to talk about people for whom hell is their
choice rather than their luck.

You really have to kind of envy people who've made hell their choice rather
than their luck. At least they know where they're going when they pass on
and have mentally themselves prepared for the worst; but people working
out their salvation as per Php 2:12 haven't a clue where they're headed.
They're hoping for the best; while in the back of their minds dreading the
worst since for people working out their salvation, heaven is never a sure
thing.

†. Matt 7:22-23 . . Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Master, have we
not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in
thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them: I
never knew you. Depart from me, you that work iniquity.

The Lord's statement doesn't target Atheists, nor Hindus, nor Buddhists,
nor Muslims. No, it targets people professing to have prophesied in "thy
name" and to have exorcised demons in "thy name" and to have done many
wonderful works in "thy name".

No: the Lord's statement targets Christians; viz: people professing to be his
followers-- and not just the average rank and file pew warmers either; but the
serious Christians: the ones who preach, teach sunday school, lead the choir,
build churches and cathedrals, paint beautiful frescoes, conduct stadium-size
crusades, go out on the mission field, get involved in disaster relief, and
operate charities like orphanages, shelters, rescue missions, soup kitchens,
and hostels, etc. And yet Christ will rule their accomplishments as works of
iniquity and summarily banish them from his presence-- not just a few of them,
but "many" of them.

As if that isn't bad enough; in hell the banished Christians will be cruelly
heckled without mercy by the very people that they condemned as unfit to
inherit the kingdom of God. They'll mock and they'll taunt and they'll sing:
"Hey Christian! how about give us the gospel ay, and lead us to Christ"
Awwww-Haw-Haw-Haw-Haw-Haw-Haw-Haw

Buen Camino
/

Dan57 · Jan 14, 2014

Webers_Home said:
†. Matt 7:22-23 . . Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Master, have we
not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in
thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them: I
never knew you. Depart from me, you that work iniquity.

No: the Lord's statement targets Christians; viz: people professing to be his
followers-- and not just the average rank and file pew warmers either; but the
serious Christians: the ones who preach, teach sunday school, lead the choir,
build churches and cathedrals, paint beautiful frescoes, conduct stadium-size
crusades, go out on the mission field, get involved in disaster relief, and
operate charities like orphanages, shelters, rescue missions, soup kitchens,
and hostels, etc. And yet Christ will rule their accomplishments as works of
iniquity and summarily banish them from his presence-- not just a few of them,
but "many" of them.

I think that the context of those verses are established by the preceding verses; "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit." (Matthew 7:15-17)

So its not targeting honest Christians, but the insincere types; "For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple" (Romans 16:18). This is probably referring to those television preachers that we've all seen, who constantly hit people up for money and do fake healings. They're in it for their own glory and to enrich themselves. Look at Matthew 7:22 closely; "Lord we have not prophesied in thy name", meaning they were probably putting on a show for their own benefit? jmo

Webers_Home · Jan 14, 2014

Dan57 said:
its not targeting honest Christians

I should think that it would be fair to categorize Christians working out
their salvation as per Php 2:12 as honest.

A very large denomination-- which I am not at liberty to name --has for
one of its rules: "If anyone says that he will for certain, with an absolute
and infallible certainty, have that great gift of perseverance even to the
end, unless he shall have learned this by a special revelation, let him be
anathema."

Another of its rules puts Christians in hell who have even just one
un-absolved mortal sin on the books-- just one unabsolved mortal sin,
not dozens.

So you see; that particular group of Christians, no matter how honest; has
no clue as to its afterlife destination but must cope with the very real
possibility of being ultimately sentenced to banishment no matter what, nor
how much, they've done in the Lord's name.

That same denomination-- which currently numbers roughly 1.2 billion
members --uses the passage below for one of it's guidelines in connection
with Php 2:12.

†. 1 Cor 4:2-5 . . Now it is required that those who have been given a trust
must prove faithful. I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human
court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. My conscience is clear, but that
does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore judge
nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to
light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts.
At that time each will receive his praise from God.

In other words; those 1.2 billion Christians are crossing their fingers and
hoping for the best while in the back of their minds dreading the worst; and
though you attest that Matt 7:22-23 doesn't apply to honest Christians; they
believe it does-- they sincerely believe it does; and no amount of clever
sophistry can talk them out of it.

Buen Camino
/

Suhar · Jan 14, 2014

I believe that nobody believes God is bad.

Satanists believe that God is bad. He created people to be slaves but Satan set them free.

Interestingly new religion of alien worship teaches the same.

KingJ · Jan 15, 2014

Suhar said:
Satanists believe that God is bad. He created people to be slaves but Satan set them free.

Interestingly new religion of alien worship teaches the same.

It is actually very funny. They all go from knowing God is good, to brainwashing themselves that He is bad and then being brainwashed. Everytime they see a good God in us or nature they have brain schisms to it and come close to being mental cases.

When God gives them over to a drepraved mind, I think it is partially for their titbit of sanity to remain. They will have zero peace or time to meditate on rejecting God if His goodness and the truth was always literally in their face.

aspen · Jan 15, 2014

Lost souls are loved by God - they are incapable of receiving His love or returning it. Not very funny....

KingJ · Jan 15, 2014

It is funny when you see an atheist using a wonderful mouth from intelligent design to discredit God. But of course, its not a laughing matter when they actually believe what they say.

Theophane · Jan 17, 2014

No doubt there are rational people out and about who have come to the
logical conclusion-- quite correctly --that God has set the bar so high; that
He's made it impossible to attain heaven; so what's the point in even trying.
These people have resigned themselves to hell.

Rational people reject the idea of a Saviour, and yet they speak of hell with utter conviction when it suits their purposes. God has set the bar very high indeed, too high for anyone to attain heaven by their own merits. No one goes to the Father except through the Son. Reject the Son, and you lose the Father.

KingJ said:
It is funny when you see an atheist using a wonderful mouth from intelligent design to discredit God. But of course, its not a laughing matter when they actually believe what they say.

I fully expect them to believe what they say, and to say it with conviction. All the better if we know who is who, and where everybody stands. Atheism is not the same as satanism prima facie but if it causes people to reject God, it's very much a boon to the enemy.

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How Sure Are You Of Going To Hell?

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