The Cross and a gun???

Dodo_David said:

In the Old Testament, David had plenty of faith in God, but he still used a sling-shot to kill Goliath.

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David killed the guy who killed Saul also. How many New Testament saints carries weapons for protection? I just can't picture our Lord in the synagogues or the disciples packing pistols while preaching the Gospel. Peter was rebuked. What did he do other than try to protect Jesus? Isn't God/the Holy Spirit out Protector. What else do we need besides Him. Do we need bullet-proof vest or security guards? Just asking.

I'm not at all saying that if you're packing you're not a Christian. For the record. Blessings

Mr.Bride said:

David killed the guy who killed Saul also. How many New Testament saints carries weapons for protection? I just can't picture our Lord in the synagogues or the disciples packing pistols while preaching the Gospel. Peter was rebuked. What did he do other than try to protect Jesus? Isn't God/the Holy Spirit out Protector. What else do we need besides Him. Do we need bullet-proof vest or security guards? Just asking.

I'm not at all saying that if you're packing you're not a Christian. For the record. Blessings

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As I said before, the LORD Jesus rebuked Peter for using his sword for the wrong reason. The arrest of Jesus was a part of God's plan, but Peter did not know it.

Keep in mind that the LORD Jesus Himself told his disciples to acquire a sword if they did not already have one.

Just wondering..What's the right reason to use a sword? The wrong?

It is a good question, and one to not be taken lightly in either direction. Should a Christian carry a weapon? Should a Christian use a weapon?

1. It is not a matter of how much faith you have. This is a tactic people use to make themselves appear better than you. You can certainly have faith in God and carry a weapon. If God does not want that weapon to discharge, it most certainly won't. A man who does not protect his family is worse than a non-believer. I Timothy 5:8

2. Is there a time to lay down your weapon and die for the faith? Absolutely. God will give me the peace to know when that time is, if and when it comes. If the need for my witness is greater than the need to defend right, then God will grant me the wisdom and grace in that moment to lay down my weapon and die for the faith, much like those who came before us who peacefully were eaten alive, stoned and crucified with absolute grace that made people wonder "what was different about that person?".

3. Every tool can be used for good as well as evil. God has chosen to use many different tools, if not every different tool, over the course of the years to accomplish His purpose. This should not be taken lightly, in my opinion. Does he ever expect us to watch the weak and feeble get crushed, abused, and stand by idly knowing they can not defend themselves from an aggressor? I submit, God expects us to care for the weak, feeble, and those who do not have the means to protect themselves as part of a witness.

4. It is a huge responsibility. If I ever have to pull my firearm, may the Lord grant me the grace to know whether to discharge it. Thanks be to God, I have never had to make that choice. I will stand before my Creator someday and give an account of how I used every tool He trusted me with.

Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and the power of his might. Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6:10-12

Then it say it says to put on a breastplate, take a shield of faith, a sword of the Spirit and a few other things to be prepared to battle in this war that we are in.

I'm just saying demons don't feel bullets. Unless it's a Holy Ghost bullet.

Mr.Bride said:

Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and the power of his might. Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6:10-12

Then it say it says to put on a breastplate, take a shield of faith, a sword of the Spirit and a few other things to be prepared to battle in this war that we are in.

I'm just saying demons don't feel bullets. Unless it's a Holy Ghost bullet.

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And do you have any type of insurance? Car insurance? Life insurance? Health insurance? Of course not, because you are of strong faith.

Quantrill

Quantrill said:

And do you have any type of insurance? Car insurance? Life insurance? Health insurance? Of course not, because you are of strong faith.

Quantrill

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You hit the nail on the head. I need car insurance though. The law requires it. God bless you.

P.S. We all have different measures of faith. I'm a young guy that grew up in the 'hood'(and still there)so I had my 'scrap' just in case. I was a Christian then too. Now I rest in my Fathers hand and watch the power of the Holy Spirit take care of any threat. Shalom

Mr.Bride said:

Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and the power of his might. Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6:10-12

Then it say it says to put on a breastplate, take a shield of faith, a sword of the Spirit and a few other things to be prepared to battle in this war that we are in.

I'm just saying demons don't feel bullets. Unless it's a Holy Ghost bullet.

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If this was in response to me, I have no idea what the correlation is to what I said. If the point is: a firearm will do me no good in a spiritual fight...I agree wholeheartedly, and I think we all can agree on that point.

I, however, also live in a physical world. God placed me here. I have need to interact in this world and He had given me real physical responsibilities in this physical world.

We do see both realms clearly, and bear responsibility in both and to both in Christ.

Demons may not feel bullets, but Zombies do.

Mr.Bride said:

You hit the nail on the head. I need car insurance though. The law requires it. God bless you.

P.S. We all have different measures of faith. I'm a young guy that grew up in the 'hood'(and still there)so I had my 'scrap' just in case. I was a Christian then too. Now I rest in my Fathers hand and watch the power of the Holy Spirit take care of any threat. Shalom

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Of course. You only get insurance because its the law. Because you're of great faith. If the law didn't make you get it you wouldn't. Correct. You don't have any life insurance? Do you? You ony have the insurance required by law. Right? Because you are of such great faith.

Quantrill

Quantrill said:

Of course. You only get insurance because its the law. Because you're of great faith. If the law didn't make you get it you wouldn't. Correct. You don't have any life insurance? Do you? You ony have the insurance required by law. Right? Because you are of such great faith.

Quantrill

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I just believe God will provide. Because I am of such great faith. Paul, Peter, Timothy, Titus, Abraham, Moses, David, or our Lord Jesus Christ. They didn't have insurance. Well, God was their insurance. What is the difference?

pompadour said:

I assume every one that commented on this thread, has a job that they get payed for, so we can have a home and food on the table.
Maybe a TV or two, a car, a cell. phone.

Why? If we have FAITH we can just sit in the rocking chair and just trust God to provide ALL them things.

Secondhand Lion has it right " We have responsibility's in this physical world "
My father ( a wise man ) told me when I was young that the world owed me a living, BUT I would have to work my butt off to collect it.
Pomp.

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For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.-2 Thessalonians 3:10

Blessings

Mr.Bride said:

I just believe God will provide. Because I am of such great faith. Paul, Peter, Timothy, Titus, Abraham, Moses, David, or our Lord Jesus Christ. They didn't have insurance. Well, God was their insurance. What is the difference?

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Do you have life insurance? Do you have any insurance not required by law?

Quantrill

lukethreesix said:

Can we (true followers of Jesus) wear a cross and carry a gun? Yes, I know Peter and other disciples carried swords, but when drawn they were rebuked. "He who lives by the gun, will die by the gun." Is this not what Jesus would say today? I used to be a gun-carrying patriot, but the closer I get to Christ the deeper my guns get to the back of my closet.

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Strange thing about guns. I have never had a good opinion of police. Perhaps it has something to do with witnessing corruption (and subsequent work with the FBI against the locals), reading about police brutality, seeing unjust use of power (throwing an acquaintance to the ground with a knee in her back just because she was juggling at a fair without a permit - not kidding here, not at all). The stories go on and on.

The Law Enforcement Officer is under no obligation to protect a citizen.
In Warren v. District of Columbia [1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981),
the federal court stated that a LEO has no duty to protect a citizen.

In most cases of crime today, police officers show up to document what has already happened, not to prevent or stop crime.

In short I have no affinity for the position of peace officer today.

And so for a while I carried a gun - legally with permit and all.

The experience affected my mind oddly - badly. I began to think of police as good guys and as necessary for the public safety. I began to feel respect toward them and their position. It occurred to me that I was living in some sort of self-contradictory paradox. I carried a gun because I didn't believe police could or would do their job to protect, but I respected and liked police because THEY carried guns too - it didn't matter that they abused the power.

So I lost the gun and my mind returned.

Jesus will protect me - or He will not - as He chooses. Either way I have the confidence that my attitudes about official abuse of power will remain intact. Either way I will have clear vision about danger and where it comes from (more from the authorities than from some street punk).

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft….

PS
Oh and by the way I must tell you that I was the victim of a clock job - or as its called in more popular press the knockout game. Can you guess what the police did about it after I made a statement? […..] <---- the list appears within these braces.

So, you carried a gun and lost your mind?

Quantrill

pompadour said:

I was a Police officer for 26 yrs, ( carried a gun ) does that disqualify me from being a Christian? What else did Jesus say that we should not take literally?
Pomp.

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A police officer carries a gun as part of his mandate of service.

One of the spiritual principles of which few admit is that of divine delegation of authority. The principle works well enough when a preacher seizes the podium and spews his weekly message whether it be of the gospel or not. It also works for teachers and musicians, all of which are usually included in the religious franchise we've come to expect as our standard of living in America.

But it also works in the secular world as well.

The healing arts, for example, have a mandate from Heaven to dispense their remedies upon us. Some think mystic incantations or prayer alone is sufficient and thereby become disappointed in the results or perhaps lose family members because they don't avail themselves of formal medical services. But faith often includes accepting that which God provides right in front of one's face - the nurse or the fire department or the police officer.

The application of formally organized physical force or investigations which are not so obvious to the public eye, is also delegated authority from God. The same is true for the army. Has someone presented an argument here stating that the army should not carry guns?

Nowhere in the Bible does it say one should not defend his family, his household, his livestock or his neighbor. The Bible does say that revenge is not a proper motive for physical force. How much violence in the world is the result of that motive?

To Quantrill - I believe the insurance industry is legalized fraud on a gigantic scale. I've carried an auto policy for years not because I needed it or wanted it, but because the banks and the government require it. The same is true for homeowner's insurance here in Florida. It doesn't really pay for anything except catastrophic loss. It's become enormously expensive and I can honestly say that in several decades of home ownership or motoring I've never needed it. Life insurance is an option, but considering the expense of burial these days some sort of policy is necessary. And then there is government forced health insurance - but that is a headache for which there seems to be no cure.

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

SHOULD A CHRISTIAN BEAR ARMS?

NT SWORDS

Luke 22:36 Sell your cloak, BUY A SWORD - One of Jesus' final commands to his disciples
Matt. 6:10 "my servants would FIGHT" Matt. 6:10 thy kingdom come, Mat. 11:12 the violent take it by force
Matt. 5:17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the law."
Matt. 5:38 Resist not evil but turn the other cheek (this refers to humbly accepting non-lethal blows or refusing to accept duels NOT life threatening assaults)
Matt. 28:18-20 We are to obey Him in ALL things
Matt.10:34 Christ came not to send peace on earth but a sword
Matt. 24:43 The goodman of the house does not allow his house to be plundered
Matt. 26:52 We are not to use deadly force inappropriately, but "put the sword back in its place" (sheathed & ready at our sides).
Luke 7:2-9 Jesus commends the faith of the centurion (who makes his life with a sword)
Luke 11:21-22 An Armed man protects his household. (The most obvious sign of an enemy is a person who wants to take away your arms.)
Luke 12:39 We are not to allow home invasions
Luke 19:13 Occupy till I come
Luke 22:36 Sell your cloak, BUY A SWORD
John 2:13-17 Christ fashioned a weapon and used it
John 18:10-11 Peter armed with a sword cut off the ear of Malchus the servant of the high priest. Jesus tells Peter to put his sword back into the sheath, NOT to discard it.
John 18:36 There is coming a time when Christ's servants will FIGHT (see comments below)
Acts 5:1-11 The death penalty is still in force in the NT (Ananias & Sapphira)
1Cor. 16:13 Stand fast, Act like MEN, Be strong
Ephesians 6:14-17 Sword of the Spirit -many metaphors relating to well equipped soldiers
1Tim. 5:8 Primary obligation to provide for your family (which includes their safety and security)
2Tim. 2:3-4 We Christians are likened unto soldiers of Jesus
Heb. 7:1 Melchesidek (Jesus) blesses Abraham after the slaughter of the kings
Heb. 11:1-40 Hall of Faith Heroes - Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Joshua, Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, Saul, David, Elijah . . . were anointed warriors
Heb. 11:34 Saints of God were Valiant in fight, put alien armies to flight
Heb. 12:4 We are enjoined to be willing to resist sin even to the point of shedding blood
Rev. 2:12 Jesus wields a sharp two-edged sword
Rev. 13:10 Live by the sword, die by the sword (defending oneself or loved ones is NOT "living by the sword")
"The people of God who are destined for prison will be arrested and taken away; those destined for death will be killed.[c] But do not be dismayed, for here is your opportunity for endurance and confidence." Rev. 13:10 --LIV
Rev. 19:11-21 Christ returns with a sword to make war


OT SWORDS

2Pet. 1:19-21 The prophecies in OT came through holy men of God as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Gen. 3:15 The descendants of Eve were to bruise the heads of the descendants of the serpent.
Gen. 4:8-12 God punished the murderer (Cain )He did not ban weapons
Gen. 14:14 Abraham armed his trained men to rescue Lot
Gen. 14:15 God blessed military action
Gen. 14:20 " "
Gen. 49:24 Our weapons will be strengthened by the arms of God placed upon our arms
Ex. 7:12 Joshua defeats Amalek with the edge of the sword
Ex. 15:3 The LORD is a MAN OF WAR, We are made in His image.
Ex. 22:2 Thieves caught in the act are worthy of extermination especially at night
Lev. 26:6-8 We are to wield the sword to chase our enemies and evil beasts from our land
Numbers 31:3 God will sometimes use men to execute His vengeance
Numbers 32:20-21 We are to be armed ready to defend the people of God
Ezekiel 25:14 " " "
Numbers 32:6-7 Pacifism denounced
Numbers 32:20-23 " "
Jeremiah 48:10 " "
Deuteronomy 22:23-27 Implied is our responsibility to come to the aid of someone being raped
Gen. 14:14-20 Abraham leads righteous war of justice to save his relatives (Lot)
Numbers 31:6-8 Moses summoned his people to battle
Josuha1:14-15 Joshua " "
Psalms 18:32-42 David " "
2Sam. 5:19 " "
Joshua 5:13-15 Christ as Commander of the LORD's army
Joshua 6:1-2 " " "
Joshua 6:7 Armed men accompanied the Ark of the Covenant at Jericho
Judges 3:1-2 God left some adversaries amongst the Israelites to teach them how to fight and make war
Judges 4:14-15 Deborah calls for war
Judges 5:8 The reduction of Israel to an unarmed and unresisting state under the Philistine dominion. During long periods of peace the people tend to become complacent and soft refusing to prepare their defences against the enemy.
Judges 3:31 Judges 15:6 Improvised weaponry where none were available

1Sam. 13:19 The enemies of God's people imposed gun (sword) control.
1Sam. 15:3 God commissioned the utter destruction of the Amalekites by the Israelites.
1Sam. 15:33 The prophet hacked a man to pieces.
1Sam. 16:4 The towns people trempled at the sight of the prophet of God.
1Sam. 25:28 David fought the battles of Jehovah
1Sam.28:18 King Saul was cursed for failing to destroy all the Amalekites
1Sam.11:6 The Spirit of God can kindle great anger.
1Sam. 13:19-20 "Sword Control" practiced by the enemies of Israel (Philistines as well as the English at Lexington/Concord (as wekk as Schumer, Metzenbaum, Feinstein and Co.)
1Sam. 15:29-30 The prophet Samuel did not listen to the politically correct words of the Amalekite King, but instead hacked him to pieces.
1Sam. 18:17 It is sometimes necessary for men to come forward in the ranks and "fight the LORD'S battles.
1Sa. 25:28 Godly men fight the battles of the LORD
2Sam. 1:18 After a crushing defeat to the Israelite armies of Saul, David commands that the children of Judah be well trained in the use of the bow in order to prevent such tragic instances in the future. He learned from his adversaries succesful military tactics.
2Sam. 22:35 God taught warfare to David
2Sam. 23:1-7 David's last words: Our rulers must be just and fear God and we must be fully armed to deal with the sons of Belial (the spirit of evil personified)
2Sam. 23:8-39 David's farewell address to the valiant men who fought for Israel
1Ki. 9:22 Many of the children of Israel were to be men of war
1Ch. 5:22 There are just "wars of God"
1Ch. 21:5 2Sam. 24:9 Israel and Judah emphasized the need for men to be capable of wielding a sword (the people of God were numbered by the amount of able-bodied
Psalms 149:6 Praise in your mouth, sword in your hand
Psalms 18:34 God teaches his saints warfare
Psalms 144:1 " "
Psalms 149:4-9 The LORD takes pleasure in those who sing praises unto God & carry a twoedged sword
Psalms 149:6-9 a twoedged sword in our hand
Psalms 101:8 David vows to destroy the wicked in his land
Pro. 25:26 The righteous are not to give way to the wicked
Eccl. 3:3 Ecc_3:8 Time to kill, time for war
Son. 3:8 During times of civil unrest it is prudent to bear arms
Jeremiah 21:12 We are called to execute judgment
Jeremiah 48:10 If you have a weapon, use it!
Nehemiah 4:14 " " to fight to defend our families
Nehemiah 4:16-18 The people of God rebuilt the walls of Jerusalem with swords ready at their sides
Nehemiah 4:20-21 God will fight for us, but the Israelites were to run to the sound of the trumpet with their swords and spears at a ready.
Isa. 21:5 Be ready for war
Isa. 28:5-6 The LORD strengthens his warriors in battle
Isa. 34:5 For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea (Edom i.e. THE JEWS), and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.
Ezekiel 9:1-2 Every man with a destroying weapon in their hand
Mal. 3:6 The Lord does not change, why should His battle tactics be any different?