GOD's True Israel

Heart2Soul · Mar 13, 2026

Luther7 said:
You said: "And that includes the quoted Jeremiah 31 prophecy about the two houses repeated in Hebrews 8 of the New Testament."

Internet search:
( No nuclear weapons):
Based on available information as of March 2026, Iran has never officially stated that it has nuclear weapons. Instead, Iran has consistently maintained that its nuclear program is for peaceful, civilian purposes and has often cited a religious decree (fatwa) from Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei that forbids the development or use of weapons of mass destruction.

(No genocide against anyone):
Based on historical records and reports from international organizations, Iran has not committed a formally recognized, systematic genocide against Christians within its own borders in modern history.
However, the Islamic Republic of Iran has been accused of perpetrating severe, systematic, and targeted persecution of Christians—particularly converts from Islam

Yes, Iran has been responsible for the deaths of American citizens and service members over several decades, primarily through proxy groups and attacks in the Middle East rather than direct, large-scale attacks on the US homeland.

Key details regarding Iran's actions against Americans include:
Historical Attacks: Iran-backed Hezbollah was responsible for the 1983 US Embassy bombing in Beirut (killing 17 Americans) and the subsequent Marine barracks bombing.
Iraq/Syria Conflicts: Iranian-backed militias have been responsible for the deaths of hundreds of U.S. service members in Iraq and Syria, particularly through the use of sophisticated roadside bombs (IEDs).
Recent Activity: Between October 2023 and early 2024, Iran-backed groups were responsible for over 180 attacks on U.S. forces in the Middle East, including a January 2024 drone attack in Jordan that killed three U.S. soldiers.
Targeting Civilians: Iranian-backed groups have kidnapped and killed American citizens in Lebanon and Iraq.

( Indirect involvement, similar to what the U.S. and other countries do. And of course I do not agree with any deaths, but you have to go back to 1983 to look for an event of indirect involvement that unfortunately took the lives of 17 American soldiers ( not civilians).
However, this was half the amount of lives lost compared to an incident about 20 years earlier, when the Israeli government DIRECTLY ATTACKED THE U.S.S. LIBERTY, killing 34 American soldiers and injuring dozens of others.Most people don't know about the day Israel attacked America because our government DID EVERYTHING IT COULD TO COVER IT UP.

Whatever news source or program you are listening to is full of misinformation. Trump sent planes in to destroy the bunker holding their vast supply of uranium used to make nuclear weapons. The military is not targeting Iran....it is targeting the Islamic Regime operating within Iran.

Luther7 · Mar 13, 2026

n2thelight said:
Jesus is not God

Yes, Jesus Christ is God the Son, who took human form to come to earth as the only sacrifice acceptable to God the Father. Mystery it is.

Luther7 · Mar 13, 2026

Heart2Soul said:
Whatever news source or program you are listening to is full of misinformation. Trump sent planes in to destroy the bunker holding their vast supply of uranium used to make nuclear weapons. The military is not targeting Iran....it is targeting the Islamic Regime operating within Iran.

They already did that not too long ago. The U.S. is trying to change regimes for Israel's benefit, bottom line.

n2thelight · Mar 13, 2026

Luther7 said:
Yes, Jesus Christ is God the Son, who took human form to come to earth as the only sacrifice acceptable to God the Father. Mystery it is.

Yah sent His son, whom is the Word that became flesh

Luther7 · Mar 14, 2026

n2thelight said:
Yah sent His son, whom is the Word that became flesh

Yah:
Meaning: Often linked to YHWH, it is understood as part of the divine name revealed to Moses, implying "I AM" or "the self-existent one".

John 8:58:
Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

Davy · Mar 17, 2026

Ronald David Bruno said:
The claim of ten lost tribes is mysterious one; but God knows and has kept track of them. In 722 BC they were exiled into Assysia. Some assimilated into the culture, but some didn't a d held onto their religion and others returned to Judah . But a hundred years or so later the Babylonian empire recaptured many of them, 15k - 50k ... I'd say the tribes were reunited, not holding to their tribal names but they were there. A generation later, Cyrus let 42k return to Jerusalem. Were they all Judahites - NO.

I must bring to your attention your claim above, which is misleading.

Per God's Word, the only northern ten tribe Israelites that went... captive to Babylon with Judah was the small remnant of ten tribes that left Jeroboam's "kingdom of Israel" because of the two calf idols he setup in false worship in the northern holy land. Before God split old Israel, the ten northern tribes made up the majority... of Israelites.

So when 2 Chronicles 11 points to only a remnant... of the northern ten tribes joining with Judah, it was PRIOR to Judah's Babylon captivity, not after like you are saying.

The only Israelites that keep knowledge of their Israelite heritage were the Jews of the "house of Judah" that went captive to Babylon. And it was the majority of JEWS that chose to stay in Babylon after their captivity because God had taken good care of them there. And then afterwards those JEWS were the ones who were scattered further through the countries. It is error to just slap the ten tribes onto that, when those Jews just had received a small remnant of the northern ten tribes many years before the Babylon captivity.

When the northern ten tribes went captive in stages to Assyria and the lands of Medes, they LOST knowledge of their identity as the larger part of Israel. They took new names and new customs, becoming like Gentiles living among Gentiles. That means they saw the Jews of the "house of Judah" in their captivity not as brethren, but as foreigners. God makes these distinctions between the two houses in the Books of the prophets, like Hosea.

Luther7 · Mar 17, 2026

Davy said:
I must bring to your attention your claim above, which is misleading.

Per God's Word, the only northern ten tribe Israelites that went... captive to Babylon with Judah was the small remnant of ten tribes that left Jeroboam's "kingdom of Israel" because of the two calf idols he setup in false worship in the northern holy land. Before God split old Israel, the ten northern tribes made up the majority... of Israelites.

So when 2 Chronicles 11 points to only a remnant... of the northern ten tribes joining with Judah, it was PRIOR to Judah's Babylon captivity, not after like you are saying.

The only Israelites that keep knowledge of their Israelite heritage were the Jews of the "house of Judah" that went captive to Babylon. And it was the majority of JEWS that chose to stay in Babylon after their captivity because God had taken good care of them there. And then afterwards those JEWS were the ones who were scattered further through the countries. It is error to just slap the ten tribes onto that, when those Jews just had received a small remnant of the northern ten tribes many years before the Babylon captivity.

When the northern ten tribes went captive in stages to Assyria and the lands of Medes, they LOST knowledge of their identity as the larger part of Israel. They took new names and new customs, becoming like Gentiles living among Gentiles. That means they saw the Jews of the "house of Judah" in their captivity not as brethren, but as foreigners. God makes these distinctions between the two houses in the Books of the prophets, like Hosea.

Galatians 3:26-29 KJV - 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

So, ACCORDING TO GOD, He is not concerned at all who is who, as long as you are covered by the blood of His dear Son.
Why are Christians trying to "resurrect" a kingdom and a nation of people that God rejected? Because you read it in the Old Testament? The NEW TESTAMENT fulfills all the promises of an eternal inheritance with Abraham only if you are in Christ, not a particular group of people. You can't have it both ways.

Ephesians 4:4-6 KJV - There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

ONE COVENANT.

Davy · Mar 17, 2026

Luther7 said:
So, ACCORDING TO GOD, He is not concerned at all who is who, as long as you are covered by the blood of His dear Son.
Why are Christians trying to "resurrect" a kingdom and a nation of people that God rejected? Because you read it in the Old Testament? The NEW TESTAMENT fulfills all the promises of an eternal inheritance with Abraham only if you are in Christ, not a particular group of people. You can't have it both ways.

You are not understanding. Of course there is only one New Testament Covenant for both the seed of Israel, and Gentiles, as one body under Christ Jesus. That's not what this is about. You are on a different subject.

What I am speaking of is what God's Word teaches to happen during this PRESENT world time, as Lord Jesus has not returned to setup His literal Kingdom here on earth yet. Only His Kingdom by The Spirit through His Church is what is here today (See John 18:36). So there is still MUCH Bible prophecy yet come to pass today, and God gave SEPARATE prophecies to each separate 'house'. That means only certain Bible prophecies are for the Jews of the "house of Judah", and then only certain Bible prophecies are for the ten tribe "house of Israel." The error most do is try to fit those prophecies among only one 'house', like the "house of Judah" (Jews).

This also means, that even though Christ's Salvation is about that New Covenant He brought by His Blood shed upon the cross, it is never going to replace His Old Testament Salvation promises to Israel simply because they are to SAVED Israel under Jesus Christ as King of Israel. Doesn't mean a Salvation according to seed birth, but according to Faith, because the literal seed of Israel must... also believe by Faith to be saved, just like us Gentiles. In other words, God chose the seed of Israel to be 'caretakers' of His Salvation Plan, which includes The Gospel. That is why Paul said the things he did in Galatians about Abraham's Faith and The Gospel. Just because the majority of Israel failed in that duty doesn't mean others born of Israel did also. No, from Abraham all the way down to Christ's Apostles, God's chosen succeeded in God's Plan for The Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Davy · Mar 17, 2026

Luther7 said:
Galatians 3:26-29 KJV - 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
....

Don't know if you can make these charts out that I made, but they are events about both 'houses' taken from God's written Word...

Luther7 · Mar 17, 2026

Davy said:
You are not understanding. Of course there is only one New Testament Covenant for both the seed of Israel, and Gentiles, as one body under Christ Jesus. That's not what this is about. You are on a different subject.

What I am speaking of is what God's Word teaches to happen during this PRESENT world time, as Lord Jesus has not returned to setup His literal Kingdom here on earth yet. Only His Kingdom by The Spirit through His Church is what is here today (See John 18:36). So there is still MUCH Bible prophecy yet come to pass today, and God gave SEPARATE prophecies to each separate 'house'. That means only certain Bible prophecies are for the Jews of the "house of Judah", and then only certain Bible prophecies are for the ten tribe "house of Israel." The error most do is try to fit those prophecies among only one 'house', like the "house of Judah" (Jews).

This also means, that even though Christ's Salvation is about that New Covenant He brought by His Blood shed upon the cross, it is never going to replace His Old Testament Salvation promises to Israel simply because they are to SAVED Israel under Jesus Christ as King of Israel. Doesn't mean a Salvation according to seed birth, but according to Faith, because the literal seed of Israel must... also believe by Faith to be saved, just like us Gentiles. In other words, God chose the seed of Israel to be 'caretakers' of His Salvation Plan, which includes The Gospel. That is why Paul said the things he did in Galatians about Abraham's Faith and The Gospel. Just because the majority of Israel failed in that duty doesn't mean others born of Israel did also. No, from Abraham all the way down to Christ's Apostles, God's chosen succeeded in God's Plan for The Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Jesus would never come back to an earth still cursed with sin, just so He could reign in one location.That is so unBiblical. And there certainly is not going to be a special group of people (in rebellion towards God at that), that will receive salvation. This is one of the most deceptive end time teachings.

You said:
"...it is never going to replace His Old Testament Salvation promises to Israel..."
God promises salvation to " Abraham and his seed, or all ( from every nation) who will have faith in Christ. It is a SPIRITUAL FULFILLMENT.

Galatians 3:8-9 KJV - 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham

Why is this so hard to understand? A REMNANT " from ALL NATIONS will receive the blessing of eternal inheritance.

Romans 9:6-8 KJV - 6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

And who are the children of the promise?

Ephesians 3:6 KJV - 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Ronald David Bruno · Mar 18, 2026

Davy said:
I must bring to your attention your claim above, which is misleading.

Per God's Word, the only northern ten tribe Israelites that went... captive to Babylon with Judah was the small remnant of ten tribes that left Jeroboam's "kingdom of Israel" because of the two calf idols he setup in false worship in the northern holy land. Before God split old Israel, the ten northern tribes made up the majority... of Israelites.

So when 2 Chronicles 11 points to only a remnant... of the northern ten tribes joining with Judah, it was PRIOR to Judah's Babylon captivity, not after like you are saying.

The only Israelites that keep knowledge of their Israelite heritage were the Jews of the "house of Judah" that went captive to Babylon. And it was the majority of JEWS that chose to stay in Babylon after their captivity because God had taken good care of them there. And then afterwards those JEWS were the ones who were scattered further through the countries. It is error to just slap the ten tribes onto that, when those Jews just had received a small remnant of the northern ten tribes many years before the Babylon captivity.

When the northern ten tribes went captive in stages to Assyria and the lands of Medes, they LOST knowledge of their identity as the larger part of Israel. They took new names and new customs, becoming like Gentiles living among Gentiles. That means they saw the Jews of the "house of Judah" in their captivity not as brethren, but as foreigners. God makes these distinctions between the two houses in the Books of the prophets, like Hosea.

I've heard all that. How do you harmonize what you just stated with Revelation 7:4-8 which is likely right around the corner. You can't or you'll symbolize it to mean something that happened in the past or it really represents the church ... bla, bla, bla.
Clue to when this will happen:
When the wind all over the planet ceases to blow all at once (Rev. 7:1). That's gonna be interesting. Maybe we should request AI to notify us when this happens. "Alexa, please inform me when the wind stops blowing ... all over the planet." You can be certain, the Great Tribulation will begin. Nothing is harmed on the planet, meaning no GT catastrophic events happen until they are sealed.

Davy · Mar 18, 2026

Luther7 said:
Jesus would never come back to an earth still cursed with sin, just so He could reign in one location.That is so unBiblical.

Sounds like you... have made up God's Mind for Him. You also reveal you haven't read Zechariah 14 which gives the detail of where, and how, Lord Jesus returns to this earth, and with all His saints with Him. You also might want to read Acts 1 which covers where Lord Jesus ascended to Heaven from, in sight of His Apostles.

Davy · Mar 18, 2026

Ronald David Bruno said:
I've heard all that. How do you harmonize what you just stated with Revelation 7:4-8 which is likely right around the corner. You can't or you'll symbolize it to mean something that happened in the past or it really represents the church ...

Don't care what you have 'heard', is it The Word of God or not, that's the matter. If you took the time to check out the Bible Scriptures I have presented about this, you might begin to believe what I've been saying. Anyone can claim that all 12 tribes of Israel were joined back together centuries ago, or even today, but that idea does not align with what the actual written Word of God says (i.e., Ezekiel 37 about the two symbolic sticks). So who should we listen to? I choose to listen to God in HIS... Word.

What's so difficult about the Revelation 7:1-8 Scripture? It is simply about holding the four winds back that are ready to blow (end this world), not until God's servants of Israel at the end are sealed with His Seal (by The Holy Spirit; Ephesians 4:30; Ephesians 1:12-13). Because those must first be sealed with God's Seal, it is pointing to those 144,000 as literal Israelites within Christ's Church.

Neither are those 144,000 about some false Pre-trib "tribulation saints" idea where the Church is raptured and gone and these are left behind to convert to Jesus during the tribulation. That idea is made up by man. When Lord Jesus comes to gather His Church, He doesn't come again later to do another rapture of "tribulation saints," that idea is nowhere written. The time of 'sealing' by God's Seal is PRIOR... to the start of the "great tribulation". When the trib starts, however one believes when it begins will stay that way until the day Jesus appears. Otherwise those who will be deceived when Lord Jesus does appear, and they realize they bowed to the wrong Messiah, it wouldn't be a shock to them, when God's Word instead says those deceived will wish for the mountains to fall upon them, and for the hills to cover them, because of their shame.

Ronald David Bruno said:
Clue to when this will happen:
When the wind all over the planet ceases to blow all at once (Rev. 7:1). That's gonna be interesting. Maybe we should request AI to notify us when this happens. "Alexa, please inform me when the wind stops blowing ... all over the planet." You can be certain, the Great Tribulation will begin. Nothing is harmed on the planet, meaning no GT catastrophic events happen until they are sealed.

Now that certainly is a WILD UN-BIBLICAL NOTION.

Davy · Mar 18, 2026

Luther7 said:
Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Malachi, and any other person from the Old Testament ( there weren't just jews in the OT) who trusted in God is in the New Covenant, covered by the blood of Jesus Christ. It's not hard to understand when you realize that Christ is before all things.

Maybe I missed your post above...

It sounds like you are saying the Old Testament Patriarchs and prophets believed on Jesus Christ before the cross, and were saved prior to the cross.

Not sure I can agree with all that, because those in the Old Testament, including God's prophets, didn't yet understand about the cross at Jesus' first coming. They searched for the meaning (like Psalms 22 and Isaiah 53), but they didn't yet understand (1 Peter 1:10-12). At Christ's resurrection is when The Gospel involving the cross and remission of sins was preached to those dead of the Old Testament (1 Peter 3, 1 Peter 4). The children of Israel looked for their Messiah to be a physical king, like one of Israel's in past history, that would be their savior in the flesh kingdom sense, delivering them from the control of the Roman empire.

The Old Testament Patriarchs and prophets were 'chosen' sent ones. They were already owned by God, which is why God placed them in His service. The Power of the cross did not happen yet in their day though, even though God had already chosen them.

Davy · Mar 18, 2026

Luther7 said:
I'm not trying to make Iran out to be a perfectly innocent country (no country is). However, they are not the threat that this current administration is trying to make them out to be. They do not pose a threat to the U.S. with their missiles. They do not have nuclear weapons capabilities, since their facilities been destroyed.last year. Most of our "terror" activity is fabricated by the CIA. If Iran was culprit we would have heard about it and it would have been dealt with. The hostage crisis? Please. That occurred OVER 40 YEARS AGO.

Iran is... a threat though, because they are the closest radical Islamic threat to developing a nuclear missile program that can reach not just Israel, but also western Europe. So don't give me that bull about them not being a threat, and being picked on by Trump.

Davy · Mar 18, 2026

amigo de christo said:
What is the greater threat
Is it china , is it russia
OR IS IT THE SECOND death .

The "second death" of one's spirit with soul cast into the future "lake of fire" after Christ's future "thousand years" reign, is a threat to our enemies, but not to us, Christ's Church.

Russia and Red China are simply two Communist brothers working together for the same goal. Over decades they have tried to fool the West into thinking they are independent of each other, but really they are not. Since Communism does not work economically, Russia and Red China would take turns, one claiming peace with the West to get economic aid, and the other Communist arm attacking nations for takeover. Then they would switch. During the Vietnam war, Western war making materials were sold to Soviet satellite countries like Yugoslavia, etc., which made weapons and aid sent to the North Vietnamese that were fighting American soldiers.

Ronald David Bruno · Mar 18, 2026

Davy said:
Now that certainly is a WILD UN-BIBLICAL NOTION.

Wild? It's scripture!
After these things I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, on the sea, or on any tree. Rev.7:1

Davy said:
Because those must first be sealed with God's Seal, it is pointing to those 144,000 as literal Israelites within Christ's Church.

That is an ignorant assumption. Let's analyze that. If the they are already IN CHRIST, WHY WOULD THEY NEED TO BE SEALED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT ...AGAIN?

At this point you are struggling to hold onto your view, grasping onto false interpretations, literally ignoring scripture and distorting it. I'm done here.

amigo de christo · Mar 18, 2026

For if i sought to please man I would NOT be the servant of Christ .
Seeker friendly literally tanked every church it entered into my friend .
It was all a sham .
It produced a generation that can say love all day long , but knows neither GOD or His love .
It has led them into accusations against the very words of GOD and those who bring such words .
It has led them to holler judge n ot any time the v ery words of GOD are brought that expose sin .
It has led them and even leads them now
to hollering Judge not , when a man says JESUS is the Only way and to be sa ved YE MUST BELEIVE ON HIM
and that all other religoins are in d arkness .
It has led them to holler what RIGHT do ye have to say that . What right have ye to say that muslims , hindus
and etc DO not know GOD and are in danger of hell fire .
It has led them to JUDGE . and not sins , not those in e rrors that need correction
BUT THEY JUDGE GOD ALL MIGHTY . GOD and HIS CHRIST , HIS WORDS are now ON TRIAL
in many churches TO BE CONDMENED . and they think is love . and its GOD behind them . NOPE its satan .
THEY may as well be HOLLERING AT GOD and HIS CHRIST
saying WHAT RIGHT HAVE YE TO SAY YE MUST BLEIEVE , WHAT RIGHT have ye haters to say
ONE must repent of sin and BELIEVE ON JESUS .
GOD , HIS CHRIST , HIS VERY WORDS are on trial IN MANY CHURCHES NOW
and they judge them as HATE SPEECH just as they judge the sheep who bring them as being haters .
HELLO CHURCHES that is what YE SEEKER FRIENDLY FOLLOW NOW .
THAT IS WHAT YOUR E CUMENICAL WHORE has led you too . JUDGING GOD .

Davy · Mar 18, 2026

Ronald David Bruno said:
Wild? It's scripture!
After these things I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, on the sea, or on any tree. Rev.7:1

That is an ignorant assumption. Let's analyze that. If the they are already IN CHRIST, WHY WOULD THEY NEED TO BE SEALED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT ...AGAIN?

At this point you are struggling to hold onto your view, grasping onto false interpretations, literally ignoring scripture and distorting it. I'm done here.

You obviously do not know what those "four winds" represent per God's Word. They are not about the weather around the earth. They are about God's Spirit.

Ezek 37:9-13
9 Then said He unto me, "Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, 'Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.'"
10 So I prophesied as He commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.
11 Then He said unto me, "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, 'Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.'
12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, 'Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O My people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up out of your graves,"
KJV

That above is about God's Spirit with those "four winds."

Matt 24:31
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

That above is about the day of Lord Jesus' future coming when He brings the 'asleep' saints that had already died back to earth with Him when He comes. That is what Apostle Paul was explaining in the 1 Thessalonians 4:13-16 verses. Their spirits from Heaven are what is gathered by Jesus on that day, as they with Jesus will come from the Heavenly dimension to the earth, collecting the still alive saints with them on the way to Jerusalem, not the literal atmosphere sky around the earth. What many call a 'rapture' is actually on the "caught up" event of 1 Thessalonians 4:17, and is only about the saints still alive on earth on that day of Jesus' coming with His asleep resurrected saints.

It seems you do not understand about the two separate and different dimensions of existence written of in God's Word, this earthly one of material matter that we live in, and the Heavenly one made up of Spirit where God and the angels dwell.

So Now... what is that "four winds" event of Revelation 7:1 about?

Rev 7:1
7 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
KJV

That event is about the future "day of the Lord" events. Just what BIG EVENT is to happen on that future "day of the Lord", which is the LAST DAY of this present world? Have you not read where Apostle Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15 that on the final "last trump" we still alive on earth shall be CHANGED? at the "twinkling of an eye"? and also what Apostle Peter revealed for that "day of the Lord" that will come "as a thief in the night" also being when God's consuming fire will melt all of man's works off this earth? that means God is going to destroy this present world, literally, by the FIRE of His Spirit, for like the end of Hebrews 12:9 says, "For our God is a consuming fire."

THAT... is the future event that the four angels of Rev.7:1 are being told to hold back with the "four winds", they are not to blow (end this world) until God has sealed His servants first. And per Rev.9 we are shown what that 'sealing' by God's Seal is actually for during the very END of this world. It is so as to not be deceived like those who are not sealed will be. Those in Christ are not... to be subject to the deceptions that come out of the mouths of those locusts. God's sealing by The Holy Spirit insures that.

Davy · Mar 18, 2026

Ronald David Bruno said:
That is an ignorant assumption. Let's analyze that. If the they are already IN CHRIST, WHY WOULD THEY NEED TO BE SEALED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT ...AGAIN?

I assure you, I'm not struggling at all with what God's Word as written has shown me.

Instead, it is you that is struggling, and don't even know it yet, because the idea that some unbelievers of Israel will convert to Jesus 'during'... the coming "great tribulation" is nowhere written in God's Word, but instead is a false assumption from men's false doctrine of a Pre-trib Rapture Theory. That is who made up the un-Biblical term, 'tribulation saints', as you won't find that term anywhere written in The Bible.

And your above idea that if those 144,000 of Israel are already sealed today, that they have to be sealed again, is another silly ASSUMPTION coming from left field that is nowhere written in God's Word. It's not even an idea with ANY truth behind it. You just made that up trying to use that as canon fodder against what that Rev.7 Scripture clearly shows.

FOR BRETHREN IN CHRIST NOT IN CONFUSION ABOUT REV.7:

I'm making this easy... to understand. If brethren find understanding this difficult, then they need to get busy in deeper study of God's Word as written, and stop keeping men's doctrines.

Only if you know your Old Testament history about God having split the old nation of Israel into two separate kingdoms in the days of Solomon, would you possibly begin to understand who those 144,000 of the seed of Israel are, and how they are directly related to Christ's Church. Folks like Bruno aren't going to understand this because he is deceived by Satan's false Pre-trib Rapture theory which teaches Darby's false Dispensationalist theory claiming the Church is raptured PRIOR to the great tribulation, while the nation of Israelites are left-behind to go through the tribulation.

1. Because God's Word reveals how unbelieving Israel will be deceived during the tribulation because of the "spirit of slumber" Paul said God put upon them per Romans 11, they will remain deceived all... throughout the tribulation, and only wake up to the Truth when they see Jesus coming. Lord Jesus showed this specifically about the deceived unbelieving "Daughters of Jerusalem" and her children, in Luke 23:27-31. And Rev.9 shows only those NOT sealed will be deceived and thus subject to the stinging of the locusts.

2. Who is God's Seal for then? ONLY... those in Christ Jesus. That sealing is about the Gospel Promise by Faith on Jesus Christ which causes the BELIEVER to be sealed by The Holy Spirit (Eph.1:13; Eph.4:30). And per Rev.9, it reveals specifically WHEN God's Seal at the end of this world is for, i.e., during the "great tribulation" which Christ's Church WILL go through, because Lord Jesus said in Matt.24 and Mark 13 that He will come to gather His saints only AFTER... that great tribulation.

3. Where knowing your Old Testament history helps with understanding about the 144,000 of Rev.7 is that out of all the tribes mentioned there in Rev.7, only THREE of those tribes represent the JEWS today. But ALL... of those tribes mentioned there are to be SEALED with God's Seal to go through the "great tribulation" so as to not be deceived by the coming false-Messiah which comes first.

4. The 3-tribe "house of Judah" is represented by the Jews today, and only are made up of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi. So that's only 36,000 out of those 144,000 thousand.

5. The rest of those 144,000 sealed Israelite tribes, the "house of Israel", represent the ten lost tribes of Israel, which really are not lost at all to God. Those ten tribes went captive out of the holy lands first, never to return as a people, and they lost heritage and self-identity as the larger part of Israel. They eventually migrated into Asia Minor and Europe to form the early Christian Churches. This means the rest of that 144,000, the 84,000 out of those tribes of Reuben, Gad, Aser, Nepthali, Manasses, Simeon, Issachar, Zabulon, and Joseph. (Tribe of Dan is left out, likely because of their being first to fall into idol worship).

6. The above means those 144,000 sealed of the seed of Israel are already part of Christ's Church today, especially those tribes that made up the historical "house of Israel" which migrated mainly to the West to fulfill the Genesis 48 "multitude of nations" prophecy that Jacob passed on to Joseph's son Ephraim (Genesis 35; Genesis 48). That "multitude of nations" which the tribe of Ephraim would become represents the western Christian nations where the majority of ten tribes migrated to.

GOD's True Israel

Prayer Warrior - Eagle - Mod

Active Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads