As Night at Noon Day

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Eric E Stahl

New Member
May 28, 2013
388
13
0
Pa. USA
As Night at Noon Day

God will send a permanent solar eclipse before Armageddon to judge the antichrist kingdom. It will cause a 200 mile shadow on Israel and darkness on America.

Revelation 16:10-11
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

Isaiah 13:9-11
9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

Isaiah 16:1-5
1 Send ye the lamb to the ruler of the land from Sela to the wilderness, unto the mount of the daughter of Zion.
2 For it shall be, that, as a wandering bird cast out of the nest, so the daughters of Moab shall be at the fords of Arnon.
3 Take counsel, execute judgment; make thy shadow as the night in the midst of the noonday; hide the outcasts; bewray not him that wandereth.
4 Let mine outcasts dwell with thee, Moab; be thou a covert to them from the face of the spoiler: for the extortioner is at an end, the spoiler ceaseth, the oppressors are consumed out of the land.

(((Jesus the Lamb will sit on the throne in the kingdom)))
5 And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.

Isaiah 24:21-23
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones((Satan)) that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
23Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

Habakkuk 3:11-13
11The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear.
12 Thou didst march through the land in indignation, thou didst thresh the heathen in anger.

(((Armageddon)))
13 Thou wentest forth for the salvation of thy people, even for salvation with thine anointed; thou woundedst the head out of the house of the wicked, by discovering the foundation unto the neck. Selah.

Joel 3:14-16
14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision. 15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

Amos 8:9
7 The LORD hath sworn by the excellency of Jacob, Surely I will never forget any of their works.
8 Shall not the land tremble for this, and every one mourn that dwelleth therein? and it shall rise up wholly as a flood; and it shall be cast out and drowned, as by the flood of Egypt.
9 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day:

Job 38:13-15
12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;
13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
14 It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.
15And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken.

Habakkuk 3:11-13
11 The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went(from view), and at the shining of thy glittering spear.
12 Thou didst march through the land in indignation, thou didst thresh the heathen in anger.
13 Thou wentest forth for the salvation of thy people(Israel), even for salvation with thine anointed(Saints); thou woundedst the head out of the house of the wicked, by discovering the foundation unto the neck. Selah.(To Armageddon)



Isaiah 60:1-2, 19-20
[SIZE=10pt]1[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt] Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]2[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt] For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. [/SIZE]



19The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
20Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.


(((The permanent solar eclipse over Israel will continue through the kingdom age.))
 

Retrobyter

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2011
1,783
45
48
66
Tampa Bay, Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Shalom, Eric.

The amount of work required in this topic to correct the errors is daunting and burdensome! You need to know two basic things:

First, not every prophecy is bad news, and
Second, not every prophecy is about the end times involving OUR future. The prophecy may have been about THEIR future which is now OUR past! When that is the case, that prophecy HAS ALREADY BEEN FULFILLED and should NOT be taught to be a yet-to-be-fulfilled prophecy!

CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT!!!

One can ONLY determine the timing of a prophecy based upon its context!

Look, I don't usually recommend one English version of the Bible over another; to me, they're all the same. They are works of men trying to "explain" the perfection of God found in the original, inspired autographs. That being said, each English version of the Bible has its own character and its own set of strengths and weaknesses. I prefer the KJV for a number of reasons, but there are some good things to say about other versions, as well. For instance, if one wants to see the "big picture" better, one would do better to read the passage from the NIV (the New International Version) or the CJB (the Complete Jewish Bible).

Isaiah 13:1-22
1 An oracle concerning Babylon that Isaiah son of Amoz saw:
2 Raise a banner on a bare hilltop,

shout to them;
beckon to them
to enter the gates of the nobles.
3 I have commanded my holy ones;
I have summoned my warriors to carry out my wrath —
those who rejoice in my triumph.

4 Listen, a noise on the mountains,
like that of a great multitude!
Listen, an uproar among the kingdoms,
like nations massing together!
The Lord Almighty is mustering
an army for war.
5 They come from faraway lands,
from the ends of the heavens —
the Lord and the weapons of his wrath —
to destroy the whole country.

6 Wail, for the day of the Lord is near;
it will come like destruction from the Almighty.
7 Because of this, all hands will go limp,
every man's heart will melt.
8 Terror will seize them,
pain and anguish will grip them;
they will writhe like a woman in labor.
They will look aghast at each other,
their faces aflame.

9 See, the day of the Lord is coming—
a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger —
to make the land desolate
and destroy the sinners within it.
10 The stars of heaven and their constellations
will not show their light.
The rising sun will be darkened
and the moon will not give its light.
11 I will punish the world for its evil,
the wicked for their sins.
I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty
and will humble the pride of the ruthless.
12 I will make man scarcer than pure gold,
more rare than the gold of Ophir.
13 Therefore I will make the heavens tremble;
and the earth will shake from its place
at the wrath of the Lord Almighty,
in the day of his burning anger.

14 Like a hunted gazelle,
like sheep without a shepherd,
each will return to his own people,
each will flee to his native land.
15 Whoever is captured will be thrust through;
all who are caught will fall by the sword.
16 Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes;
their houses will be looted and their wives ravished.

17 See, I will stir up against them the Medes,
who do not care for silver
and have no delight in gold.
18 Their bows will strike down the young men;
they will have no mercy on infants
nor will they look with compassion on children.
19 Babylon, the jewel of kingdoms,
the glory of the Babylonians' pride,
will be overthrown by God
like Sodom and Gomorrah.
20 She will never be inhabited
or lived in through all generations;
no Arab will pitch his tent there,
no shepherd will rest his flocks there.
21 But desert creatures will lie there,
jackals will fill her houses;
there the owls will dwell,
and there the wild goats will leap about.
22 Hyenas will howl in her strongholds,
jackals in her luxurious palaces.
Her time is at hand,
and her days will not be prolonged.
NIV


This is a prophecy against BABYLON who are defeated by the MEDES of what becomes Media-Persia! This prophecy is not against someone in the future but was against Babylon in the PAST! The same can be seen from other versions, if one can understand those versions as though he or she was listening to a person speak the words, but to see the "big picture," for most, requires one to HEAR the words as though they were spoken.

Well, that's just your quote from Isaiah 13:9-11. EACH of the above quotes needs to be investigated like this to be SURE that they are indeed prophecies that speak to our future. Some are, but MANY are not! That's why I say that the task is daunting! This correction requires extensive work.

What I DO know is that SOME of the verses you have quoted ARE about our future, for instance, Isaiah 24:21-23, Isaiah 60:1-2 and 19-20, and Revelation 16:10-11, are indeed about the future. They were NOT fulfilled in some "figurative" or "spiritual" way in the past. However, Isaiah 24:21-23 (one of my favorite passages of the Bible, by the way) is a GOOD thing, not bad! Notice that the sun and the moon are still shining, but because of the brightness of the LORD (YHWH), the moon is "confounded" (literally "mixed up") and the sun is "ashamed" (literally "outdone") by His glory - His SHINE! The sun and the moon are not damaged in these verses in any way.

Furthermore, we have a prophecy that DEMANDS that they continue to exist and shine as usual for eternity:

Psalm 89:1-37
89 I will sing of the mercies of the Lord for ever: with my mouth will I make known thy faithfulness to all generations.
2 For I have said, Mercy shall be built up for ever: thy faithfulness shalt thou establish in the very heavens.
3 I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant,
4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.
5 And the heavens shall praise thy wonders, O Lord: thy faithfulness also in the congregation of the saints.
6 For who in the heaven can be compared unto the Lord? who among the sons of the mighty can be likened unto the Lord?
7 God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints, and to be had in reverence of all them that are about him.
8 O Lord God of hosts, who is a strong Lord like unto thee? or to thy faithfulness round about thee?
9 Thou rulest the raging of the sea: when the waves thereof arise, thou stillest them.
10 Thou hast broken Rahab in pieces, as one that is slain; thou hast scattered thine enemies with thy strong arm.
11 The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: as for the world and the fulness thereof, thou hast founded them.
12 The north and the south thou hast created them: Tabor and Hermon shall rejoice in thy name.
13 Thou hast a mighty arm: strong is thy hand, and high is thy right hand.
14 Justice and judgment are the habitation of thy throne: mercy and truth shall go before thy face.
15 Blessed is the people that know the joyful sound: they shall walk, O Lord, in the light of thy countenance.
16 In thy name shall they rejoice all the day: and in thy righteousness shall they be exalted.
17 For thou art the glory of their strength: and in thy favour our horn shall be exalted.
18 For the Lord is our defence; and the Holy One of Israel is our king.
19 Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one, and saidst, I have laid help upon one that is mighty; I have exalted one chosen out of the people.
20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him:
21 With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him.
22 The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him.
23 And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him.
24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted.
25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers.
26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation.
27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.
28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.
30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;
31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;
32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness (Hebrew: chesed = covenant-keeping) will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.
34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.
36 His seed (Yeshua` the Messiah) shall endure forever, and his throne as the sun before me.
37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.
KJV


They aren't destroyed in any way; the sun and the moon are simply OUTSHONE and OVERWHELMED! The moon is actually going to be "mixed up" in its phases as it now reflects the light from TWO sources instead of one!
 
  • Like
Reactions: KingJ

Eric E Stahl

New Member
May 28, 2013
388
13
0
Pa. USA
Retrobyter said:
Shalom, Eric.

The amount of work required in this topic to correct the errors is daunting and burdensome! You need to know two basic things:

First, not every prophecy is bad news, and
Second, not every prophecy is about the end times involving OUR future. The prophecy may have been about THEIR future which is now OUR past! When that is the case, that prophecy HAS ALREADY BEEN FULFILLED and should NOT be taught to be a yet-to-be-fulfilled prophecy!

CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT!!!

One can ONLY determine the timing of a prophecy based upon its context!

Look, I don't usually recommend one English version of the Bible over another; to me, they're all the same. They are works of men trying to "explain" the perfection of God found in the original, inspired autographs. That being said, each English version of the Bible has its own character and its own set of strengths and weaknesses. I prefer the KJV for a number of reasons, but there are some good things to say about other versions, as well. For instance, if one wants to see the "big picture" better, one would do better to read the passage from the NIV (the New International Version) or the CJB (the Complete Jewish Bible).

Isaiah 13:1-22
1 An oracle concerning Babylon that Isaiah son of Amoz saw:
2 Raise a banner on a bare hilltop,

shout to them;
beckon to them
to enter the gates of the nobles.
3 I have commanded my holy ones;
I have summoned my warriors to carry out my wrath —
those who rejoice in my triumph.

4 Listen, a noise on the mountains,
like that of a great multitude!
Listen, an uproar among the kingdoms,
like nations massing together!
The Lord Almighty is mustering
an army for war.
5 They come from faraway lands,
from the ends of the heavens —
the Lord and the weapons of his wrath —
to destroy the whole country.

6 Wail, for the day of the Lord is near;
it will come like destruction from the Almighty.
7 Because of this, all hands will go limp,
every man's heart will melt.
8 Terror will seize them,
pain and anguish will grip them;
they will writhe like a woman in labor.
They will look aghast at each other,
their faces aflame.

9 See, the day of the Lord is coming—
a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger —
to make the land desolate
and destroy the sinners within it.
10 The stars of heaven and their constellations
will not show their light.
The rising sun will be darkened
and the moon will not give its light.
11 I will punish the world for its evil,
the wicked for their sins.
I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty
and will humble the pride of the ruthless.
12 I will make man scarcer than pure gold,
more rare than the gold of Ophir.
13 Therefore I will make the heavens tremble;
and the earth will shake from its place
at the wrath of the Lord Almighty,
in the day of his burning anger.

14 Like a hunted gazelle,
like sheep without a shepherd,
each will return to his own people,
each will flee to his native land.
15 Whoever is captured will be thrust through;
all who are caught will fall by the sword.
16 Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes;
their houses will be looted and their wives ravished.

17 See, I will stir up against them the Medes,
who do not care for silver
and have no delight in gold.
18 Their bows will strike down the young men;
they will have no mercy on infants
nor will they look with compassion on children.
19 Babylon, the jewel of kingdoms,
the glory of the Babylonians' pride,
will be overthrown by God
like Sodom and Gomorrah.
20 She will never be inhabited
or lived in through all generations;
no Arab will pitch his tent there,
no shepherd will rest his flocks there.
21 But desert creatures will lie there,
jackals will fill her houses;
there the owls will dwell,
and there the wild goats will leap about.
22 Hyenas will howl in her strongholds,
jackals in her luxurious palaces.
Her time is at hand,
and her days will not be prolonged.
NIV


This is a prophecy against BABYLON who are defeated by the MEDES of what becomes Media-Persia! This prophecy is not against someone in the future but was against Babylon in the PAST! The same can be seen from other versions, if one can understand those versions as though he or she was listening to a person speak the words, but to see the "big picture," for most, requires one to HEAR the words as though they were spoken.

Well, that's just your quote from Isaiah 13:9-11. EACH of the above quotes needs to be investigated like this to be SURE that they are indeed prophecies that speak to our future. Some are, but MANY are not! That's why I say that the task is daunting! This correction requires extensive work.

What I DO know is that SOME of the verses you have quoted ARE about our future, for instance, Isaiah 24:21-23, Isaiah 60:1-2 and 19-20, and Revelation 16:10-11, are indeed about the future. They were NOT fulfilled in some "figurative" or "spiritual" way in the past. However, Isaiah 24:21-23 (one of my favorite passages of the Bible, by the way) is a GOOD thing, not bad! Notice that the sun and the moon are still shining, but because of the brightness of the LORD (YHWH), the moon is "confounded" (literally "mixed up") and the sun is "ashamed" (literally "outdone") by His glory - His SHINE! The sun and the moon are not damaged in these verses in any way.

Furthermore, we have a prophecy that DEMANDS that they continue to exist and shine as usual for eternity:

Psalm 89:1-37
89 I will sing of the mercies of the Lord for ever: with my mouth will I make known thy faithfulness to all generations.
2 For I have said, Mercy shall be built up for ever: thy faithfulness shalt thou establish in the very heavens.
3 I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant,
4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.
5 And the heavens shall praise thy wonders, O Lord: thy faithfulness also in the congregation of the saints.
6 For who in the heaven can be compared unto the Lord? who among the sons of the mighty can be likened unto the Lord?
7 God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints, and to be had in reverence of all them that are about him.
8 O Lord God of hosts, who is a strong Lord like unto thee? or to thy faithfulness round about thee?
9 Thou rulest the raging of the sea: when the waves thereof arise, thou stillest them.
10 Thou hast broken Rahab in pieces, as one that is slain; thou hast scattered thine enemies with thy strong arm.
11 The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: as for the world and the fulness thereof, thou hast founded them.
12 The north and the south thou hast created them: Tabor and Hermon shall rejoice in thy name.
13 Thou hast a mighty arm: strong is thy hand, and high is thy right hand.
14 Justice and judgment are the habitation of thy throne: mercy and truth shall go before thy face.
15 Blessed is the people that know the joyful sound: they shall walk, O Lord, in the light of thy countenance.
16 In thy name shall they rejoice all the day: and in thy righteousness shall they be exalted.
17 For thou art the glory of their strength: and in thy favour our horn shall be exalted.
18 For the Lord is our defence; and the Holy One of Israel is our king.
19 Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one, and saidst, I have laid help upon one that is mighty; I have exalted one chosen out of the people.
20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him:
21 With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him.
22 The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him.
23 And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him.
24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted.
25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers.
26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation.
27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.
28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.
30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;
31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;
32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness (Hebrew: chesed = covenant-keeping) will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.
34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.
36 His seed (Yeshua` the Messiah) shall endure forever, and his throne as the sun before me.
37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.
KJV


They aren't destroyed in any way; the sun and the moon are simply OUTSHONE and OVERWHELMED! The moon is actually going to be "mixed up" in its phases as it now reflects the light from TWO sources instead of one!
Retrobyter,

The sun and moon and stars do not shine over Israel where the antichrist is camped Daniel 11:45 because a permanent solar eclipse forms.

When Jesus comes the Jews at the river ford on the Arnon River will be in the shadow also. Isaiah 60:1-2, 18-20. Then Jesus in the new Jerusalme

When the day of the Lord describes a solar eclipse it is the last day of the Lord in the tribulation.
will be the light over Israel in the kingdom.
 

DaDad

Member
Sep 28, 2012
541
3
18
Eric E Stahl said:
As Night at Noon Day

God will send a permanent solar eclipse before Armageddon to judge the antichrist kingdom. It will cause a 200 mile shadow on Israel and darkness on America.
...
Hi Eric,

It would seem there are more credible circumstances which would align with the depictions.

Have you considered the significance of "wormwood"?



DaDad
 

Eric E Stahl

New Member
May 28, 2013
388
13
0
Pa. USA
DaDad said:
Hi Eric,

It would seem there are more credible circumstances which would align with the depictions.

Have you considered the significance of "wormwood"?



DaDad
[SIZE=10pt]DaDad[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Wormwood will posion 1/3 of the fresh water. Revelation 8:10-11[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]The mountain burning as fire will impact the earth so hard that it will stagger as a drunk. Isaiah 24:21-22 and Revelation 8:8-9[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]It will impact in a north eastern or south eastern direction because it speeds up the rotation of the earth so that a day only last 16 hours.Revelation 8:12-13[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]In a pemanent solar eclipse the moon slows to 1 revelution per year blocking the sun from shinning on Israel. It will cause a twilight condition so they won't see the stars.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]It happens when the sun is scorching the earth with a 7 fold strength sun Isaiah 30:25-26. It saves life on earth.[/SIZE]
 

DaDad

Member
Sep 28, 2012
541
3
18
Eric E Stahl said:
DaDad
Wormwood will posion 1/3 of the fresh water. Revelation 8:10-11

The mountain burning as fire will impact the earth so hard that it will stagger as a drunk. Isaiah 24:21-22 and Revelation 8:8-9

It will impact in a north eastern or south eastern direction because it speeds up the rotation of the earth so that a day only last 16 hours.Revelation 8:12-13

In a pemanent solar eclipse the moon slows to 1 revelution per year blocking the sun from shinning on Israel. It will cause a twilight condition so they won't see the stars.

It happens when the sun is scorching the earth with a 7 fold strength sun Isaiah 30:25-26. It saves life on earth.

I don't think a solar eclipse aligns with these advents.

Have you considered that global thermonuclear war will result in burnt cities, fields, and forests, which could cause the sun to be blotted out?


DaDad
 

Retrobyter

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2011
1,783
45
48
66
Tampa Bay, Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Shalom, Eric.

Eric E Stahl said:
Retrobyter,

The sun and moon and stars do not shine over Israel where the antichrist is camped Daniel 11:45 because a permanent solar eclipse forms.

When Jesus comes the Jews at the river ford on the Arnon River will be in the shadow also. Isaiah 60:1-2, 18-20. Then Jesus in the new Jerusalme

When the day of the Lord describes a solar eclipse it is the last day of the Lord in the tribulation.
will be the light over Israel in the kingdom.
I hope you're not teaching that stuff to others! There's no such thing as a "permanent solar eclipse!" A true solar eclipse is the interposing of the moon between a point on the earth and the sun. The moon casts its shadow on the surface of the earth. Furthermore, in a total solar eclipse, the stars DO shine during the day!

In order for there to be a PERMANENT solar eclipse because of the moon, the moon would have to be in a geosynchronous orbit around the earth at the same angular velocity as the rotation of the earth AND the moon could not shift from the earth's orbital plane about the sun! And, on top of all that, the moon would have to be positioned in such an orbit that it's shadow would be cast over Isra'el where Yerushalayim (Jerusalem) is located at 31 degrees, 47 minutes North and 35 degrees, 13 minutes East on the globe. This is WELL north of both the equator and the ecliptic of the earth's path around the sun!

It's possible ONLY in a theoretical sense; realistically, this is a physical impossibility. This is one of those things where mathematics collides with physics. It may be TECHNICALLY possible in the sense that one could work out the figures on paper, but the odds of it happening are astronomically unlikely and improbable! For all practical purposes, it IS impossible! There's no such thing as a PERMANENT solar eclipse!
 

Eric E Stahl

New Member
May 28, 2013
388
13
0
Pa. USA
Retrobyter said:
Shalom, Eric.


I hope you're not teaching that stuff to others! There's no such thing as a "permanent solar eclipse!" A true solar eclipse is the interposing of the moon between a point on the earth and the sun. The moon casts its shadow on the surface of the earth. Furthermore, in a total solar eclipse, the stars DO shine during the day!

In order for there to be a PERMANENT solar eclipse because of the moon, the moon would have to be in a geosynchronous orbit around the earth at the same angular velocity as the rotation of the earth AND the moon could not shift from the earth's orbital plane about the sun! And, on top of all that, the moon would have to be positioned in such an orbit that it's shadow would be cast over Isra'el where Yerushalayim (Jerusalem) is located at 31 degrees, 47 minutes North and 35 degrees, 13 minutes East on the globe. This is WELL north of both the equator and the ecliptic of the earth's path around the sun!

It's possible ONLY in a theoretical sense; realistically, this is a physical impossibility. This is one of those things where mathematics collides with physics. It may be TECHNICALLY possible in the sense that one could work out the figures on paper, but the odds of it happening are astronomically unlikely and improbable! For all practical purposes, it IS impossible! There's no such thing as a PERMANENT solar eclipse!
Retrobyter,

You have described the permanent solar eclipse well well. When Revelation 8:8-9 happens the earth will stagger as a drunkerd out of its place. See Isaiah 24:19-23
18 And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake.
19The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
21And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
23Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

(moon stopped and the sun will hid)
 

DaDad

Member
Sep 28, 2012
541
3
18
Eric E Stahl said:
[SIZE=10pt]... a pemanent solar eclipse the moon ...[/SIZE]


DaDad said:
Have you considered that global thermonuclear war will result in burnt cities, fields, and forests, which could cause the sun to be blotted out?
Rev. 6
15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders,[g] the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”


For why hide in "caves" except to escape nuclear fallout?


With Best Regards,
DaDad
 

Eric E Stahl

New Member
May 28, 2013
388
13
0
Pa. USA
DaDad said:
Rev. 6
15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders,[g] the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”


For why hide in "caves" except to escape nuclear fallout?


With Best Regards,
DaDad
DaDad,

Yes the nukes fly in 6th seal Revelation 6:13-14 and probably at Revelation 9:18.and many other places.

Isaiah 30:25-26 tells us that the sun will become 7 fold strenth. It is because the atmosephere will burn off in Isaiah 25:4-7.

Revelation 16:8-9 sun scorches men

Revelation God saves Israel while sending permanent darkness on America by causeing a pemanent solar eclipse. see my first post.

Fire in the Sky 2

God will cause man to fight a nuclear war, which will destroy and thin the atmosphere and let more meteors impact the earth.

Jeremiah 25:15-17,
15 For thus saith the LORD God of Israel unto me; Take the wine cup of this fury at my hand, and cause all the nations, to whom I send thee, to drink it.
16 And they shall drink, and be moved, and be mad, because of the sword that I will send among them.
17 Then took I the cup at the LORD's hand, and made all the nations to drink, unto whom the LORD had sent me:
18 To wit, Jerusalem, and the cities of Judah, and the kings thereof, and the princes thereof, to make them a desolation, an astonishment, an hissing, and a curse; as it is this day;

29 For, lo, I begin to bring evil on the city which is called by my name, and should ye be utterly unpunished? Ye shall not be unpunished: for I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, saith the LORD of hosts.
30 Therefore prophesy thou against them all these words, and say unto them, The LORD shall roar from on high, and utter his voice from his holy habitation; he shall mightily roar upon his habitation; he shall give a shout, as they that tread the grapes, against all the inhabitants of the earth.

[SIZE=16pt] (((God cause man to fight man by nuclear war)))[/SIZE]
31A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth; for the LORD hath a controversy with the nations, he will plead with all flesh; he will give them that are wicked to the sword, saith the LORD.
32 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth.
33 And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground.



[SIZE=10pt]2 Peter 3:10[/SIZE]–15 KJV
[SIZE=10pt]10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Revelation 6:12[/SIZE]–14 KJV
[SIZE=10pt]12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Isaiah 34:1[/SIZE]–8 KJV
[SIZE=10pt]34 Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]2 For the indignation of the Lord is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]3 Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Another Old Testament prophet, Isaiah, also foresaw the nuclear war and he prophesied that the heavens will burn and roll up as a scroll. Apparently, all of the airplanes and nuclear missiles will fall from the sky during the war when the atmosphere burns. This judgment will be on all nations.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Isaiah 51:5[/SIZE]–11 KJV
[SIZE=10pt]5 My righteousness is near; my salvation is gone forth, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]6 Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Isaiah 25:1[/SIZE]–7 KJV
[SIZE=10pt]4 For thou hast been a strength to the poor, a strength to the needy in his distress, a refuge from the storm, a shadow from the heat, when the blast of the terrible ones is as a storm against the wall.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]5 Thou shalt bring down the noise of strangers, as the heat in a dry place; even the heat with the shadow of a cloud: the branch of the terrible ones shall be brought low.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]6 And in this mountain shall the Lord of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]7 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]In Isaiah 30:25[/SIZE]–26, it says that the sun will become seven times stronger in the day of great slaughter. The day of great slaughter happens when the nuclear war takes place and the ozone layer is burned up as a scroll. Malachi 4:1 says that the earth will burn as an oven. In looking to the encyclopedia to see what parts of the atmosphere can burn, you will discover that the ozone is a triple oxygen molecule.
[SIZE=10pt]The ozone layer and the hydrogen layer are next to each other in the atmosphere above the earth. The chemical reaction when they burn is as follows:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Heat + oxygen + hydrogen = H2O (water) + greater heat[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]The ozone and hydrogen layers will be set on fire over Israel by an atomic blast, and then they will burn like the Hindenburg blimp. When the ozone and hydrogen burn, it will form hot water vapor that will condense into water droplets that will then become rain, which will form great hailstones that will fall to the earth along with torrential rain. When the atmosphere burns, the heavens will roll up as a scroll all the way around the earth, over every nation.[/SIZE]





Most reject what I am going to suggest as a possible answer to that question.
 

DaDad

Member
Sep 28, 2012
541
3
18
Eric E Stahl said:
DaDad,

Yes the nukes fly in 6th seal Revelation 6:13-14 and probably at Revelation 9:18.and many other places.

Isaiah 30:25-26 tells us that the sun will become 7 fold strenth. It is because the atmosephere will burn off in Isaiah 25:4-7.

Revelation 16:8-9 sun scorches men

Revelation God saves Israel while sending permanent darkness on America by causeing a pemanent solar eclipse. see my first post.

...

Isaiah 30:26
Moreover the light of the moon will be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun will be sevenfold, as the light of seven days,

I would suggest that when nuclear weapons are triggered, that the brightness (i.e., "sun") will be sevenfold, as well as the light of the "moon", -- including the radiological fallout which I presume is luminescent as it decays. There's certainly enough weapons and enough targets to light the heavens for 24 hours. And fortunately, THEY'RE ALL IN THE NORTHERN HEMISPHERE!

Along with the bright light comes tremendous heat which both scorches men, and burns fields and forests:

Rev. 8:7
... And a third of the trees were burned up, and all green grass was burned up.



In addition these weapons will also be used to destroy surface ships and submarines:

Rev. 8:9
And a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.


So given that all events coincide with a global thermonuclear exchange, why do you propose that the earth will experience a "permanent solar eclipse" "on America"?

Does Scripture really say "America"?
When Jesus returns, do you think that HE will bring ALL nations under his domain EXCEPT America?
Will America be an "eternal" pariah?
Will the tides cease to function?
Will the moths now have to be led by the lights of Moses?
Will Moses have to be raised from the dead?
Will the Pharaoh's mystics be raised from the dead to help Moses?



With Best Regards,
DaDad
 

Retrobyter

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2011
1,783
45
48
66
Tampa Bay, Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Shabbat shalom, Eric.

Eric E Stahl said:
Retrobyter,

You have described the permanent solar eclipse well well. When Revelation 8:8-9 happens the earth will stagger as a drunkerd out of its place. See Isaiah 24:19-23
18 And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake.
19The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
21And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
23Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

(moon stopped and the sun will hid)
First of all, you need to understand the Hebrew word "erets," spelled alef-segol-reish-segol-tsadday, and translated as "earth." This word is NOT generally talking about the planet; it's usually talking about the "Land" of Isra'el! The word simply means the "ground." It can refer to the dirt beneath your feet, the plot of ground that one tills, the land that one owns, the Land of Isra'el (which is FREQUENTLY the case), or on RARE OCCASIONS, the whole system of lands that can be owned and tilled, all the ground of the planet WE call "Earth" today. Without the Hebrew word "kaal" or "kol" added, meaning "all," it is NOT referring to the whole planet!

Second, Isaiah 24 is NOT talking about the PLANET being moved in some way! It's talking about the GROUND shifting! It's describing a molten earth as what might happen in a Global Fire as described in 2 Peter 3:7-12 and Revelation 20:9-15. The planet doesn't move; merely the surface of the planet or part of that surface moves!

Third, you're messing with one of my favorite verses, verse 23! It's rather unfortunate that the words were translated into this English version as personifications, but they CERTAINLY do not mean "stopped" and "will hide!" Here's the Hebrew:

Isaiah 24:23
23 V-chaafraah ha-lvaanaah uw-vowshaah ha-chamaah kiy maalakh YHWH Tsvaa’owt b-har Tsiyown uwvi-Yruwshaalaim v-neged zqeenaayv kaavowd:
JPS Hebrew English TANAKH


23 V-chaafraah = 23 And-shall-be-excavated/gouged
ha-lvaanaah = the-moon
uw-vowshaah = and-shall-be-disgraced/outdone
ha-chamaah = the-sun
kiy = when
maalakh = shall-reign
YHWH = YHWH
Tsvaa’owt = of-armies
b-har = in-mountain
Tsiyown = of-Zion
uwvi-Yruwshaalaim = and-in-Jerusalem
v-neged = and-before
zqeenaayv = his-ancients
kaavowd: = gloriously/brightly:

23 And-shall-be-excavated/gouged the-moon and-shall-be-disgraced/outdone the-sun when shall-reign YHWH of-armies in-mountain of-Zion and-in-Jerusalem and-before his-ancients gloriously/brightly:

You've GOT to see how this works! AFTER the Global Fire that's coming, THEN the New Earth is created. Upon the New Earth will descend the New Jerusalem (Yerushalayim haChadashah), and it is said to be 12,000 furlongs high! Using 660 feet per furlong (assuming the normal Roman furlong from which the Greek word "stadios" comes), that's 1,500 miles high! That's significantly higher than the current atmosphere is thick!

In episode 2628 of the University of Houston's College of Engineering "Engines of Ingenuity" show, "The Edge of Space," astronaut Michael Barrett said,

At higher altitudes, space is defined by the performance of the machines that take us there. 50 miles is the arbitrary altitude at which the US Air Force awards astronaut wings. These were given to pilots of the X-15 rocket plane in the '60s. 62 miles is the altitude identified by Hungarian aeronautics legend Theodore von Karman, above which wings would be practically ineffective. The World Air Sports Federation uses this altitude to certify that a craft has gone from airspace to space. Here atmospheric light scattering is minimal, and the so-called 'blackness of space' prevails. Traveling through 124 miles, most would agree we are in space. The density of particles and hence aerodynamic drag is low enough that a sustainable orbit is possible. A typical human spacecraft reaches this altitude in about 8 1/2 minutes.
Next, he said,

The International Space Station orbits at about 220 miles, a little more than the distance between New York City and Washington D.C. Decide for yourself whether the term "outer space" is appropriate. Above 440 miles, the atmosphere is so thin that any remaining air molecules will almost never hit one another. Continuing outward, particle density gradually diminishes over thousands of miles, approaching the free space density of 1-10 particles per cubic centimeter.
You can see more at http://www.uh.edu/engines/epi2628.htm.

Thus, the New Jerusalem will be almost SEVEN TIMES HIGHER than the International Space Station orbits!

Now, if one assumes that the New Jerusalem cannot possibly be a cube because of the curvature of the earth, then it is more likely to be in the shape of a giant four-sided pyramid with a "square-like" base. This can work because the words that are translated "lieth foursquare" are "tetragoonas keitai," literally meaning "four-angled lies-outstretched," and has NOTHING to do with being a "cube!"

In such a structure, where would the throne of God exist? Well, one would most likely assume that it would be at the PINNACLE - the CAPSTONE, or as it is called in Psalm 118:22, the "head stone of the corner" or the "head stone of the angle!"

Therefore, one could conclude that God's Throne, the FOCAL POINT of God's Glory, would be 1,500 miles above the surface of the earth! What would that do to the earth's surface all around this huge city? Well, if God's glory on the face of Yeshua` was enough for Yochanan to conclude...

Rev 1:16
16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
KJV


...then His Glory will COMPETE with the sun! The sun will be "disgraced" or "outdone!"

What will a second Source of BRIGHTNESS, closer to its surface, do to the phases of the moon?! There will be mixed-up phases! The part of the moon facing the sun, for instance, might cast a thin crescent, but the part of the moon facing the New Jerusalem might reflect a gibbous phase ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE of what we see of the moon! It will look "excavated" or "dug up" in weird ways we've never seen before!
 

Eric E Stahl

New Member
May 28, 2013
388
13
0
Pa. USA
Retrobyter said:
Shabbat shalom, Eric.


First of all, you need to understand the Hebrew word "erets," spelled alef-segol-reish-segol-tsadday, and translated as "earth." This word is NOT generally talking about the planet; it's usually talking about the "Land" of Isra'el! The word simply means the "ground." It can refer to the dirt beneath your feet, the plot of ground that one tills, the land that one owns, the Land of Isra'el (which is FREQUENTLY the case), or on RARE OCCASIONS, the whole system of lands that can be owned and tilled, all the ground of the planet WE call "Earth" today. Without the Hebrew word "kaal" or "kol" added, meaning "all," it is NOT referring to the whole planet!

Second, Isaiah 24 is NOT talking about the PLANET being moved in some way! It's talking about the GROUND shifting! It's describing a molten earth as what might happen in a Global Fire as described in 2 Peter 3:7-12 and Revelation 20:9-15. The planet doesn't move; merely the surface of the planet or part of that surface moves!

Third, you're messing with one of my favorite verses, verse 23! It's rather unfortunate that the words were translated into this English version as personifications, but they CERTAINLY do not mean "stopped" and "will hide!" Here's the Hebrew:

Isaiah 24:23
23 V-chaafraah ha-lvaanaah uw-vowshaah ha-chamaah kiy maalakh YHWH Tsvaa’owt b-har Tsiyown uwvi-Yruwshaalaim v-neged zqeenaayv kaavowd:
JPS Hebrew English TANAKH


23 V-chaafraah = 23 And-shall-be-excavated/gouged
ha-lvaanaah = the-moon
uw-vowshaah = and-shall-be-disgraced/outdone
ha-chamaah = the-sun
kiy = when
maalakh = shall-reign
YHWH = YHWH
Tsvaa’owt = of-armies
b-har = in-mountain
Tsiyown = of-Zion
uwvi-Yruwshaalaim = and-in-Jerusalem
v-neged = and-before
zqeenaayv = his-ancients
kaavowd: = gloriously/brightly:

23 And-shall-be-excavated/gouged the-moon and-shall-be-disgraced/outdone the-sun when shall-reign YHWH of-armies in-mountain of-Zion and-in-Jerusalem and-before his-ancients gloriously/brightly:

You've GOT to see how this works! AFTER the Global Fire that's coming, THEN the New Earth is created. Upon the New Earth will descend the New Jerusalem (Yerushalayim haChadashah), and it is said to be 12,000 furlongs high! Using 660 feet per furlong (assuming the normal Roman furlong from which the Greek word "stadios" comes), that's 1,500 miles high! That's significantly higher than the current atmosphere is thick!

In episode 2628 of the University of Houston's College of Engineering "Engines of Ingenuity" show, "The Edge of Space," astronaut Michael Barrett said,


Next, he said,


You can see more at http://www.uh.edu/engines/epi2628.htm.

Thus, the New Jerusalem will be almost SEVEN TIMES HIGHER than the International Space Station orbits!

Now, if one assumes that the New Jerusalem cannot possibly be a cube because of the curvature of the earth, then it is more likely to be in the shape of a giant four-sided pyramid with a "square-like" base. This can work because the words that are translated "lieth foursquare" are "tetragoonas keitai," literally meaning "four-angled lies-outstretched," and has NOTHING to do with being a "cube!"

In such a structure, where would the throne of God exist? Well, one would most likely assume that it would be at the PINNACLE - the CAPSTONE, or as it is called in Psalm 118:22, the "head stone of the corner" or the "head stone of the angle!"

Therefore, one could conclude that God's Throne, the FOCAL POINT of God's Glory, would be 1,500 miles above the surface of the earth! What would that do to the earth's surface all around this huge city? Well, if God's glory on the face of Yeshua` was enough for Yochanan to conclude...

Rev 1:16
16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
KJV


...then His Glory will COMPETE with the sun! The sun will be "disgraced" or "outdone!"

What will a second Source of BRIGHTNESS, closer to its surface, do to the phases of the moon?! There will be mixed-up phases! The part of the moon facing the sun, for instance, might cast a thin crescent, but the part of the moon facing the New Jerusalem might reflect a gibbous phase ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE of what we see of the moon! It will look "excavated" or "dug up" in weird ways we've never seen before!
Retrobyter,

I am pleased to post with you who are a Messianic Jew. We can learn from each other I hope.


Haggai 2
1 In the seventh month, in the one and twentieth day of the month, came the word of the LORD by the prophet Haggai, saying,
2 Speak now to Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and to Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest, and to the residue of the people, saying,
3 Who is left among you that saw this house in her first glory? and how do ye see it now? is it not in your eyes in comparison of it as nothing?
4 Yet now be strong, O Zerubbabel, saith the LORD; and be strong, O Joshua, son of Josedech, the high priest; and be strong, all ye people of the land, saith the LORD, and work: for I am with you, saith the LORD of hosts:
5 According to the word that I covenanted with you when ye came out of Egypt, so my spirit remaineth among you: fear ye not.
6 For thus saith the LORD of hosts; Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens, and the earth, and the sea, and the dry land;
7 And I will shake all nations, and the desire of all nations shall come: and I will fill this house with glory, saith the LORD of hosts.
8 The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, saith the LORD of hosts.


(((There will be a temple in Jerusalem more glorious then Solomen’s temple in the kingdom age.)))

9 The glory of this latter house shall be greater than of the former, saith the LORD of hosts: and in this place will I give peace, saith the LORD of hosts.


Revelation 21:22-27
22And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.


(There is no temple in the New Jerusalem and no sun light or moon light.)



Micah 4
1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

(The New Jerusalem will be suspended in space above Israel between the gravity of the earth and the moon. It will be in the umbra shadow of the moon. The sun will continue to shine on the earth, which is outside the shadow of the moon. Only the light of Jesus will shine down on Israel.)


(God’s promise to Israel)

Isaiah 60:15-20
15 Whereas thou has been forsaken and hated, so that no man went through thee, I will make thee an eternal excellency, a joy of many generations.
16 Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.

[SIZE=14pt](I think verse 17 means in the new temple)[/SIZE]

17 For brass I will bring gold, and for iron I will bring silver, and for wood brass, and for stones iron: I will also make thy officers peace, and thine exactors righteousness.
18 Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise.


[SIZE=14pt](the solar eclipse will continue through the kingdom age.)[/SIZE]

19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
20[SIZE=14pt]Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw[/SIZE] itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.
 

DaDad

Member
Sep 28, 2012
541
3
18
Retrobyter said:
...
Now, if one assumes that the New Jerusalem cannot possibly be a cube because of the curvature of the earth, then it is more likely to be in the shape of a giant four-sided pyramid with a "square-like" base. This can work because the words that are translated "lieth foursquare" are "tetragoonas keitai," literally meaning "four-angled lies-outstretched," and has NOTHING to do with being a "cube!"
...
Hi Retrobyter,

Rev. 21:16
16 The city is laid out as a square; its length is as great as its breadth. ...


First of all, please allow me to redefine the terms, so that we understand that the width, depth, and height are each equal to 1,500 miles.
Secondly, there are TWO geometric shapes which fulfill this depiction, a cube and a sphere.
Thirdly, celestial bodies are never cubes, they're always spheres.

Thus I would propose that the New Jerusalem is a sphere which is 1,500 miles in diameter.


With Best Regards,
DaDad
 

Eric E Stahl

New Member
May 28, 2013
388
13
0
Pa. USA
DaDad said:
Isaiah 30:26
Moreover the light of the moon will be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun will be sevenfold, as the light of seven days,

I would suggest that when nuclear weapons are triggered, that the brightness (i.e., "sun") will be sevenfold, as well as the light of the "moon", -- including the radiological fallout which I presume is luminescent as it decays. There's certainly enough weapons and enough targets to light the heavens for 24 hours. And fortunately, THEY'RE ALL IN THE NORTHERN HEMISPHERE!

Along with the bright light comes tremendous heat which both scorches men, and burns fields and forests:

Rev. 8:7
... And a third of the trees were burned up, and all green grass was burned up.



In addition these weapons will also be used to destroy surface ships and submarines:

Rev. 8:9
And a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.


So given that all events coincide with a global thermonuclear exchange, why do you propose that the earth will experience a "permanent solar eclipse" "on America"?

Does Scripture really say "America"?
When Jesus returns, do you think that HE will bring ALL nations under his domain EXCEPT America?
Will America be an "eternal" pariah?
Will the tides cease to function?
Will the moths now have to be led by the lights of Moses?
Will Moses have to be raised from the dead?
Will the Pharaoh's mystics be raised from the dead to help Moses?



With Best Regards,
DaDad
DaDad,

When the sun stops over Israel, America will be in continual darkness! Read each of these passages and think about them.

As Night at Noon Day

God will send a permanent solar eclipse before Armageddon to judge the antichrist kingdom. It will cause a 200 mile shadow on Israel and darkness on America.

Revelation 16:10-11
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

Isaiah 13:9-11
9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

Isaiah 16:1-5
1 Send ye the lamb to the ruler of the land from Sela to the wilderness, unto the mount of the daughter of Zion.
2 For it shall be, that, as a wandering bird cast out of the nest, so the daughters of Moab shall be at the fords of Arnon.
3 Take counsel, execute judgment; make thy shadow as the night in the midst of the noonday; hide the outcasts; bewray not him that wandereth.
4 Let mine outcasts dwell with thee, Moab; be thou a covert to them from the face of the spoiler: for the extortioner is at an end, the spoiler ceaseth, the oppressors are consumed out of the land.

(((Jesus the Lamb will sit on the throne in the kingdom)))
5 And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.

Isaiah 24:21-23
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones((Satan)) that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
23Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

Habakkuk 3:11-13
11The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear.
12 Thou didst march through the land in indignation, thou didst thresh the heathen in anger.

(((Armageddon)))
13 Thou wentest forth for the salvation of thy people, even for salvation with thine anointed; thou woundedst the head out of the house of the wicked, by discovering the foundation unto the neck. Selah.

Joel 3:14-16
14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision. 15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

Amos 8:9
7 The LORD hath sworn by the excellency of Jacob, Surely I will never forget any of their works.
8 Shall not the land tremble for this, and every one mourn that dwelleth therein? and it shall rise up wholly as a flood; and it shall be cast out and drowned, as by the flood of Egypt.
9 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day:

Job 38:13-15
12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;
13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
14 It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.
15And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken.

Habakkuk 3:11-13
11 The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went(from view), and at the shining of thy glittering spear.
12 Thou didst march through the land in indignation, thou didst thresh the heathen in anger.
13 Thou wentest forth for the salvation of thy people(Israel), even for salvation with thine anointed(Saints); thou woundedst the head out of the house of the wicked, by discovering the foundation unto the neck. Selah.(To Armageddon)



Isaiah 60:1-2, 19-20
[SIZE=10pt]1[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt] Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]2[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt] For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. [/SIZE]



19The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
20Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.


(((The permanent solar eclipse over Israel will continue through the kingdom age.))
 

Retrobyter

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2011
1,783
45
48
66
Tampa Bay, Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Shabbat shalom, DaDad.

DaDad said:
Hi Retrobyter,

Rev. 21:16
16 The city is laid out as a square; its length is as great as its breadth. ...


First of all, please allow me to redefine the terms, so that we understand that the width, depth, and height are each equal to 1,500 miles.
Secondly, there are TWO geometric shapes which fulfill this depiction, a cube and a sphere.
Thirdly, celestial bodies are never cubes, they're always spheres.

Thus I would propose that the New Jerusalem is a sphere which is 1,500 miles in diameter.


With Best Regards,
DaDad
Well, I don't think so, and here's why: While a cube and a sphere may have width, depth, and height (because they are 3-dimensional objects), the sphere doesn't have a shape that lends itself to the description in verses 10-14, particularly verses 13 and 14:

Revelation 21:10-14
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
KJV


Since when does a sphere have an east, north, south, and west sides? Furthermore, how does ANY OBJECT have "east, north, south, and west sides" when it's orbiting the earth? That would be VERY hard to manage or to rectify and maintain! How does a sphere have twelve FOUNDATIONS (Greek: themelioi)? How do the "nations of the earth bring their glory and honor into it?" No, the easier way to interpret these verses is to acknowledge and admit that the city LANDS.

The other problem is the sheer SIZE of this city! For the city to have "FOUNDATIONS" suggests that the city must LAND! (Indeed, there are several other reasons for why I believe that the city must actually LAND on the New Earth, which I won't go into here.)

The cube CANNOT fit BECAUSE of its landing! This city is 1,500 miles long, wide, and high! I see no reason why the New Earth will not have similar dimensions to the present Earth, based on how the present Earth is similar in dimensions to the first Earth before the Flood. Therefore, a city that is 1,500 miles long out of an Earth that is about 24,902 miles in circumference at the equator, would cover 21.685 degrees of the Earth's circumference! That's almost one and a half time zones!

That's HUGE!!! A cube can't handle it!

That means that the direction for "down" at the center gate of one side of the city would be 21.685 degrees different than "down" at the center gate on the opposite side of the city, and the direction for "down" in the center of the city would be 10.8425 degrees different than both of the gates! THINK about that for a moment! That REALLY messes with the figures for a cube!

Assuming that the distance of 1,500 miles would be along the side of the city and following the curvature of the earth, a "cube" would be required to have a top side that was significantly more than 1,500 miles if the sides of the city were to remain orthogonal - at right angles to the surface of the earth. It would look like a trapezoid with curved bases! OR,... it would be a true cube in which case the 10.8425 degrees would be subtracted from the 90-degree orthogonal angle and the sides would be curved inward by that 10.8425 degrees, making the "90 degrees" actually 79.1575 degrees. Any way that one looks at such a structure on the New Earth, there would be problems.

NOT SO WITH A PYRAMID! The pyramid, already built with a slant to the pinnacle, would merely change the slant by that 10.8425 degrees, essentially not changing a thing! Indeed, it IMPROVES the calculations! Taking a cross-sectional cut through the center of the city and the New Earth, one would find a triangle with a curved base of 1,500 miles and a distance to the pinnacle of 1,500 miles. The distance from the earth's surface to the center of the earth is 3,963 miles. That distance would hold true for the distance from the center of the Earth to any point along that curve, whether the center of either gate of the city on opposite sides or in the very center of the city. A little trigonometry would reveal two right triangles from the center of a center gate on one side of the city to the center of the earth to a point below the earth's surface halfway on a straight line joining the two center gates of opposite sides of the city. With a central angle of 10.8425 degrees at the center of the earth, one will find that the distance from the center of the earth to this point is 3,963 miles x cosine of 10.8425 degrees = 3,892 miles. Thus, this point would be 3,963 - 3,892 = 71 miles below the surface of the earth. Add this distance to the 1,500 miles above the earth's surface, and one will discover two more right triangles such that the vertical component of this right triangle would be 1,571 miles long to the pinnacle of the city. This would give the capstone a cross-sectional angle of 50.781159 degrees (twice the angle at the top of this right triangle) while the base of the triangle would have angles of 64.609424 degrees. Subtracting the 10.8425 degrees, we would have an angle of 53.7669 degrees where the wall of the city at those center gates meets the surface of the earth! Thus, even though the angles are reduced to 50.7 and 53.7 degrees instead of a 60-degree angle, it would have a more uniform appearance from the ground! It would look more like an equilateral triangle, especially with foreshortening! So, not only would it be obvious that the city is as tall as it is wide from thousands of miles away, it would look like the "height" of the city (up the wall to the pinnacle) would be the same as its width, from one's perspective close to the base of the pyramid!

Think of the base of the pyramid melted and molded to the surface of the sphere we call "Earth." The sides therefore "fall away" from the level surface of the center of the pyramid, and the corners "fall away" even farther to contact the curved surface of the Earth! The sides of the city would be following the Great Circles of the earth, and on a map, the city would look to have concave walls (even though they would truly be straight). This compensates for the right angles of the base of the pyramid on a globe.

Curved geometry has its own set of rules that differ from plane geometry. For instance, in plane geometry, we know that the three angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees. However, it's possible on a globe to have a three pointed triangle that has three 90-degree angles! Simply go 6225 miles on the equator of the earth eastward, turn 90 degrees to your left and travel until you reach the north pole. Turn 90 degrees again to your left, and travel back down to the equator. Turn 90 degrees to your left, and you're back where you started heading east again! This "triangle" in curved space has a total of 3 x 90 = 270 degrees!

Anyway, something to think about. (I LOVE math!)
 

DaDad

Member
Sep 28, 2012
541
3
18
Hi Retrobyter,

Retrobyter said:
Since when does a sphere have an east, north, south, and west sides?
Doesn't mankind recognize those points?


With Best Regards,
DaDad
 

Retrobyter

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2011
1,783
45
48
66
Tampa Bay, Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Shabbat shalom, DaDad.

DaDad said:
Hi Retrobyter,


Doesn't mankind recognize those points?


With Best Regards,
DaDad
Typically, no! If it is a sphere in space, such as a planet or a moon, it will have its OWN coordinate system with a set of poles (north and south), depending upon its spin, and directions (east and west) as it relates to that spin! "East" is typically used for "into the spin," i.e. facing the morning or rising light, and "west" is used for "away from the spin," i.e. facing the evening or setting light.

Our own moon, Luna, turns about its axis so slowly that its "day" is a moon's orbit long! Thus, we have one side of the moon that is always facing the earth, and another side of the moon that is facing away from the earth, the "dark side of the moon." The "dark side" gets light too, but it was called the "dark side" because, until fairly recent moon flights into space, it was UNKNOWN from the earth's view.
 

DaDad

Member
Sep 28, 2012
541
3
18
Retrobyter said:
Since when does a sphere have an east, north, south, and west sides?

DaDad said:
Doesn't mankind recognize those points?
Retrobyter said:
Typically, no!
Hi Retrobyter,

I would observe that Russia is to the north, Argentina is to the south, the United States is to the west, and China is to the east.


Rev. 21
15 And he who talked to me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city and its gates and walls. 16 The city lies foursquare, its length the same as its breadth; and he measured the city with his rod, twelve thousand stadia;[c] its length and breadth and height are equal. 17 He also measured its wall, a hundred and forty-four cubits by a man’s measure, that is, an angel’s.


And once again, I would observe that GOD creates spherical heavenly bodies, -- not cubes, not cylinders, and not pyramids.


With Best Regards,
DD
 

Retrobyter

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2011
1,783
45
48
66
Tampa Bay, Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Shalom, DaDad.

DaDad said:
Hi Retrobyter,

I would observe that Russia is to the north, Argentina is to the south, the United States is to the west, and China is to the east.


Rev. 21
15 And he who talked to me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city and its gates and walls. 16 The city lies foursquare, its length the same as its breadth; and he measured the city with his rod, twelve thousand stadia;[c] its length and breadth and height are equal. 17 He also measured its wall, a hundred and forty-four cubits by a man’s measure, that is, an angel’s.


And once again, I would observe that GOD creates spherical heavenly bodies, -- not cubes, not cylinders, and not pyramids.


With Best Regards,
DD
Sure He did, but the New Jerusalem is not a "heavenly body"; it's a CITY which has FOUNDATIONS! Furthermore, it LANDS!

Those compass directions that you've mentioned above are referring to the HEMISPHERES in which those countries are found! Tell me: where would you put twelve gates on a sphere such that you have three gates on the north side, three gates on the south side, three gates on the west side, and three gates on the east side?! And, how does one go into the gates?! Does one have to DOCK with it, like a space station? Are you thinking literal gates? Or, are you thinking "force fields" or some other such nonsense?

It's really quite simple: The New Jerusalem will be our HOUSE, and the New Earth will be our BACK YARD!

Here's verse 16 in Greek:

Apokalupsis 21:16
16 Kai hee polis tetragoonos keitai kai to meekos autees hoson kai to platos. Kai emetreesen teen polin too kalamoo epi stadioon doodeka chiliadoon, to meekos kai to platos kai to hupsos autees isa estin.
Greek New Testament

16 Kai = 16 And/Also
hee = the
polis = city
tetragoonos = four-angled/four-cornered/square
keitai = lies-outstretched
kai = and/also
to = the
meekos = length
autees = of-it/its
hoson = as
kai = and/also
to = the
platos. = width.
Kai = And/Also
emetreesen = he-measured
teen = the
polin = city
too = with-the
kalamoo = reed/tube
epi = above/upon/at
stadioon = stadioi/furlongs
doodeka = twelve
chiliadoon, = thousands,
to = the
meekos = length
kai = and/also
to = the
platos = width
kai = and/also
to = the
hupsos = height
autees = of-it/its
isa = equal
estin. = they-are.


16 And/Also the city four-angled/four-cornered/square lies-outstretched and/also the length of-it/its as and/also the width. And/Also he-measured the city with-the reed/tube above/upon/at stadioi/furlongs twelve thousands, the length and/also the width and/also the height of-it/its equal they-are.

How in (or out of) the world do you fit a sphere into THAT?! It doesn't fit.