AN UNKNOWN TONGUE

Doug said:

1 Corinthians 14:2 KJV] "For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries."........This is not a unique type of tongues. An unknown tongue is a language not understood by anyone in the assembly. ..........[1 Corinthians 14:3 KJV] "But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men [to] edification, and exhortation, and comfort."
[1 Corinthians 14:4 KJV] "He that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church."...........He that speaks plainly speaks unto men for the churches profit, but he that speaks in an unknown tongue only benefits himself...........[1 Corinthians 14:14

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Just sharing what an "unknown tongue" means to me.
Did Christ speak in an unknown tongue. I believe so.
We read the passages--too many to quote where He spoke in parables.
We read time and time again the religious leaders asked: What is He saying? We can't understand Him.
Did Jesus Christ fulfill He speaks unto God for no man understands him, however in the spirit he speaks mysteries? I believe He did. HE is the perfect example of “He speaks (directly) unto God for no man understands him, however in the spirit he speaks mysteries.” “My Words are Spirit, they are Life.”

But Jesus Christ also prophesied. For example, when He spoke directly to the Father, but out loud He said it for those listening so that they may hear and understand. Like when He told them Lazarus was not dead. They could Not understand Him. Jesus Prayed directly to the Father so they (Nearby) might hear and understand. We can't deny the whole Word of God is in an unknown tongue. And it is indeed unfruitful until understanding is given also. we have verses speaking on where understanding comes from and yes... unto edifying the body it is given to understand. Another example is when the disciples could not understand what He said. This speaks of an "unknown tongue" ...we can look for other meaning of speaking in an unknown tongue, but I suggest we look at the Master Teacher of speaking in an unknown tongue. Which is Christ. We still try to discern His Words.

concerning an unknow tongue: I have to ask who was given the mysteries?
For who spoke in an unknown tongue and given to understand and know mysteries?
Jesus Christ.
Even further is "Logos" going beyond written Logos is Rhema. Rhema refers to a specific, instant, and living spoken word that requires action through faith. Why? is it accidental there is written Logos "Search the scriptures; for in them you think you have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. Written Logos in an unknown tongue. and with understanding: Rhema fruitful in knowledge of Christ.

We can make up what an unknown tongue is.
But to me we can't come new to the bible and think "None of this makes sense. It's like it's in a language I
can't speak." And still look for what is an unknown tongue. we can observe Jesus Christ encounter again and again those who could not understand what He said and read where He told the Disciples after the Comforter comes, they would know the mysteries and remember what He said. Speaking to them plainly. Then they would understand.
Yet, we try to define an unknown tongue that doesn't show how Christ did indeed speak in an unknown tongue (Directly unto His Father, and they understood not what He said), yet His prophecies edify and bring forth fruit in the knowledge of Christ.

Doug said:

KJV] "For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful."........When he speaks in tongues he understands in his spirit what is being said, but it's unfruitful because the church doesn't know what is being said............[1 Corinthians 14:27 KJV]

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Doug said:

Christ didnt speak in an unknown tongue. When he spoke in parables he spoke plainly so they could understand his words, they just didnt know what the parable meant.

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I'm not sure how you say with certainty Jesus didn't speak in an unknown tongue. There is no clearer example to me of an unknow tongue since the things He spoke were unknown. I'm not sure how you say with certainty Jesus did not: "He speaks unto God for no man understands him, however in the spirit he speaks mysteries.”

VictoryinJesus said:

I'm not sure how you say with certainty Jesus didn't speak in an unknown tongue. There is no clearer example to me of an unknow tongue since the things He spoke were unknown. I'm not sure how you say with certainty Jesus did not: "He speaks unto God for no man understands him, however in the spirit he speaks mysteries.”

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Spiritual Gifts are given to the NT Church, after the Holy Spirit was given, and that didnt happen until Jesus was ascended back into Heaven.
See Acts chapter 2 for the update.
Therefore "tongues"... didnt exist as a "spiritual gift" or as a prayer language when Jesus was on the Earth, dealing only with the "house of Israel", the Jews.

Behold said:

Spiritual Gifts are given to the NT Church, after the Holy Spirit was given, and that didnt happen until Jesus was ascended back into Heaven.
See Acts chapter 2 for the update.
Therefore "tongues"... didnt exist as a "spiritual gift" or as a prayer language when Jesus was on the Earth, dealing only with the "house of Israel", the Jews.

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I'm aware I'm going to lose this argument. "But know this first of all, that no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. (2 Peter 1:20-21).

I could show you how the Spirit that was in Christ also spoke in an unknown tongue through Paul.
The good news is prior to the gift of the Spirit who could interrupt or understand what the Spirit said?
After Christ what the Spirit says is no longer unfruitful but edifies. "For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:" Ephesians 4:12 and, "...according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, makes increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love."

VictoryinJesus said:

I'm aware I'm going to lose this argument. "But know this first of all, that no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. (2 Peter 1:20-21).

I could show you how the Spirit that was in Christ also spoke in an unknown tongue through Paul.
The good news is prior to the gift of the Spirit who could interrupt or understand what the Spirit said?
After Christ what the Spirit says is no longer unfruitful but edifies. "For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:" Ephesians 4:12 and, "...according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, makes increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love."

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The Holy Spirit or "Holy Ghost" was given to the earth for the benefit of us all..... after Jesus was back in Heaven,.... which proves that there were no "tongues" found on earth before Jesus sent down the Holy Spirit.
And that happened in Acts 2.

Something interesting to study.......is John 20:22.......as we find that Jesus gave the 11 remaining Apostles the Holy Spirit, (before Acts 2)....yet none of them spoke in Tongues at that time after receiving the Holy Spirit, and none of them were water baptized at that time.

So, if you encounter a certain type of "charismatic or pentecostal" who is trying to prove they have the Apostolic gifts, and they say......>>"do you have the infilling"......>"did you speak in tongues as the evidence".. then just open their bible for them, and show them John 20:22 , and they can read that all 11 Apostles received the Holy Spirit, and NONE OF THEM Spoke in "tongues" at that time.., and none of them were water baptized at that time.

Later, we find in the Acts of the Apostles, that sometimes a person did speak in tongues the very moment they were saved and filled with the Holy Spirit, but not always.
Not always.

Behold said:

The Holy Spirit or "Holy Ghost" was given to the earth for the benefit of us all..... after Jesus was back in Heaven,.... which proves that there were no "tongues" found on earth before Jesus sent down the Holy Spirit.
And that happened in Acts 2.

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I was wrong. It’s seemed clear that Jesus Christ was the example of speaking in an unknown tongue. But you were right that He never spoke in tongues. And you were correct also about there being no unknown tongue prior to the gifts of the Spirit. I’ve been looking at it more closely. I’ll revisit later.

VictoryinJesus said:

I was wrong. It’s seemed clear that Jesus Christ was the example of speaking in an unknown tongue. But you were right that He never spoke in tongues. And you were correct also about there being no unknown tongue prior to the gifts of the Spirit. I’ve been looking at it more closely. I’ll revisit later.

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ViJ said >> """And you were correct also about there being no unknown tongue prior to the gifts of the Spirit""

Hopefully this is helpful
..

rockytopva said:

Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. - 1 Corinthians 14:39

Forbid not to speak with tongues.
Forbid not to speak with tongues.
Forbid not to speak with tongues.

And here is a lady speaking in tongues in our church and nobody forbade her...

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Who interpreted her ?
1 Cor 14:27-28
27If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

rockytopva said:

Nobody... So she sat down. At least we had some Spirit in the church! Better than some of the graveyards with preachers from Theological Cemeteries that I have been to!

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Why does your Church not follow the commands of Christ through Paul ?
1 Cor 14:34-35
34Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

rockytopva said:

The service was progressing as normal
The lady spoke in tongues
There was no one to interpret
So she sat down and kept quite
The service progressed into the sermon or prophecy part
And ended with the benediction

Nothing wrong! Glad the Spirit was thinking of us!

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Singing, piano, all great stuff.
Do you believe the HS inspired her to speak in an UNKNOWN tongue in Church ?

rockytopva said:

Yes I did. Noting... The whole service was not speaking in tongues. And not in every service is there speaking in tongues. And this was only in a brief part of the service. But in every service there is a sermon.

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I asked "Do you believe the HS inspired her to speak in an UNKNOWN tongue in Church ?"
You answer " Yes I did."
Why would the HS inspire her to ignore the KEEP SILENCE in church command :- Cor 14:34-35
34Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

rockytopva said:

If that is the kind of church you prefer to dwell in there is plenty of them around. Arrogance rather than Unction... But... It is all yours!

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Do you prefer to go to a church that allows what is not allowed ?
eg :-1 Cor 14:34-35
34Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.