Creationism in science class rooms

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snr5557

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River Jordan said:
You know, I hear those atheists also believe in gravity. So according to your mindset, you have to deny it. After all, you can't be advocating anything atheists believe in, right? :rolleyes:

Seriously though, you put me in mind of a lecture I attended once. The speaker (a Pastor) talked about the issue of evolution and how people like you approach it. His main point was that your approach indicates a very weak, insecure type of faith. You and folks like you figure that if evolution is scientifically true, then all of Christianity is false. IOW, your brand of Christianity is so weak and insecure, something as simple and obvious as evolution is enough to destroy it forever. Simply put, it's a threat.

So in a different time and place people like you persecuted people like me....not because we were wrong, but because our thoughts were a threat to your authority and your faith. Fortunately we're not in those times now, so all you have left is to insult and attack me in online forums. But the same fundamental issue is in play....

...an insecure, weak faith built on simplistic thinking and blind authority, being threatened by objectivity and critical thinking. This conflict is probably as old as humanity itself.
I could not have said it better River :)
 

Mr.Bride

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'Evolution is a bankrupt speculative philosophy, not a scientific fact. Only a spiritually bankrupt society could ever believe it....Only atheists could accept this satanic theory' :)
 

KingJ

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River Jordan said:
You know, I hear those atheists also believe in gravity. So according to your mindset, you have to deny it. After all, you can't be advocating anything atheists believe in, right? :rolleyes:

Seriously though, you put me in mind of a lecture I attended once. The speaker (a Pastor) talked about the issue of evolution and how people like you approach it. His main point was that your approach indicates a very weak, insecure type of faith. You and folks like you figure that if evolution is scientifically true, then all of Christianity is false. IOW, your brand of Christianity is so weak and insecure, something as simple and obvious as evolution is enough to destroy it forever. Simply put, it's a threat.

So in a different time and place people like you persecuted people like me....not because we were wrong, but because our thoughts were a threat to your authority and your faith. Fortunately we're not in those times now, so all you have left is to insult and attack me in online forums. But the same fundamental issue is in play....

...an insecure, weak faith built on simplistic thinking and blind authority, being threatened by objectivity and critical thinking. This conflict is probably as old as humanity itself.
You can't compare evolution to something like the Galileo affair :rolleyes:. That is brain dead reasoning yet again.

You want to believe this ''weak faith built on simplistic thinking and blind authority, being threatened by objectivity and critical thinking'' but the irony is yet again extremely thick........

Giving parts or all of Genesis an allegorical interpretation, as required by TE (theistic evolution), generates deeper problems. Is there any nonarbitrary, independent standard through which we can distinguish between allegorical and literal truths in the Bible? The Bible itself usually gives us no hint of how to decide between these two options. For example, did Jesus literally rise from the dead, or is the Resurrection story merely a metaphor for the political ascent of the poor? Since the text itself gives no indication that either the Resurrection story, the Flood narrative, or the Creation narrative are intended only allegorically, by letting in such sweeping allegorical interpretations, the believer removes the ground under his own feet. When an "sacred" history appears to be no history at all, only myth remains.

From the temptation of Adam and Eve in the Garden, the most effective way to undermine and destroy the Word of God is to question His Creation including the instructions He gave Adam when he was made. Satan was the first one to start this undermining of God’s Word and authority as recorded in Gen. 3:1 –
He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?”
 

River Jordan

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Mr.Bride said:
'Evolution is a bankrupt speculative philosophy, not a scientific fact. Only a spiritually bankrupt society could ever believe it....Only atheists could accept this satanic theory' :)
Well, Mr. Swaggart was 100% wrong. There are plenty of examples of non-atheists and Christians who recognize that evolution is real.
KingJ said:
You can't compare evolution to something like the Galileo affair
I didn't say anything about Galileo.

Giving parts or all of Genesis an allegorical interpretation, as required by TE (theistic evolution)
Well there's your problem. No one here is saying that it is allegorical.
 

River Jordan

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KingJ said:
You didn't say this 'So in a different time and place people like you persecuted people like me' ?
Yep. You do realize that the history of religious persecution extends beyond one person, don't you? :eek:
 

aspen

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You can never convince a groupie that they are a slave to their emotions......
 

KingJ

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River Jordan said:
Yep. You do realize that the history of religious persecution extends beyond one person, don't you? :eek:
It's perhaps the most popular re science...which is why it was quoted.... :eek: :rolleyes: Dodge much?

I have to laugh! Christian oppression gives strength to your cause?.... :D :lol:.

Must satanists go ahead with their statue in Oklahoma?

River Jordan said:
Well there's your problem. No one here is saying that it is allegorical.
Well then, how do you define your rejection of scripture? Saying that I am fundamental and you are liberal is not sufficient.
 

River Jordan

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KingJ said:
It's perhaps the most popular re science...which is why it was quoted.... :eek: :rolleyes: Dodge much?
Wut? What am I dodging?

I have to laugh! Christian oppression gives strength to your cause?.... :D :lol:.

Must satanists go ahead with their statue in Oklahoma?
When you get anywhere near a coherent thought, let me know.

Well then, how do you define your rejection of scripture? Saying that I am fundamental and you are liberal is not sufficient.
Again we see how your authoritarian black/white mindset frames the issue for you. In this mindset, "different interpretation of scripture" is no different than "rejection of scripture".

I bet you're really frustrated that in today's age, the ability to punish heretics like me has been taken away from you. That must drive you crazy.
 

aspen

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That is a good point, it must feel like persecution to fundamentalists when the majority of the world and other Christians disagree with a literal reading of the Bible. It always baffled me why many fundamentalists are always talking about the sky falling and how Christians are being persecuted right and left in America - now I am beginning to get it......I guess that would contribute to the irritability I see all over this board - if I felt attack every time someone disagreed with me, it would wear on me and especially if I believed my understanding of the Bible was not open to discussion. It is really no way to live - it also makes sense that many feel like they have to defend the truth, when in reality, the truth needs no defense. Seems like tilting at windmills to me.....but I guess if it gets you up in the morning.....

I was confronted about a quote I used as my signature - the quote was by Walter Wink, who happened to believe homosexuals were just like all sinners in need of sanctification - the quote had nothing to do with homosexuality, but it pissed off several members of this board community. According to the feedback I received, it was hypocritical to preach the love of God AND use a quote that made people mad. IMO, emotional regulation is a personal issue, and separate from my love for God and neighbor, but many here disagreed with me. After seeing how fundamentalists view persecution, I guess I can see their point of view. Apparently, disagreeable quotes are the 21st version of the Roman lions at the coliseum. What a rough way to live! No wonder Fundamentalists talk about how hard it is to be a Christian....I am really blown away.....I am being sincere, by the way - I did not grow up as a Conservative Protestant.
 

River Jordan

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You should read up on the psychology of fundamentalism. There's a lot of fear, anger, and resentment behind it all, and you can sense it in the posts of a lot of fundies. It also helps make sense of such posts, like KingJ's telling me that if I were at his church, I wouldn't be allowed to open my mouth. :rolleyes:
 

Mr.Bride

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River Jordan said:
You should read up on the psychology of fundamentalism. There's a lot of fear, anger, and resentment behind it all, and you can sense it in the posts of a lot of fundies. It also helps make sense of such posts, like KingJ's telling me that if I were at his church, I wouldn't be allowed to open my mouth. :rolleyes:
And I sense a bunch of unbelief and reasoning against the Word of God. You can't make it wrong no matter how hard you try. It is infallible and without error. No holes to be found in this most Holy Book. Going to man to find answers. That is pitiful if you call yourself a Christian. Just look at the definition of a Christian from the words of Christ/the Bible and see how your life stands in comparison. Be led by His Spirit. It is only black and white. Simplicity my friend. The mind of Jesus Christ is what we need. Blessings
 
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River Jordan

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I'm no longer going to respond to posts that are all about questioning my faith. If that's all people have in response, that speaks for itself.
 

Quantrill

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River Jordan said:
I'm no longer going to respond to posts that are all about questioning my faith. If that's all people have in response, that speaks for itself.
You don't mind questioning the faith of what you call 'the fundies'. Yet you don't want your 'faith' questioned. Forget it. You come pushing evolution as 'Christian' when it is not. This brings your faith in question. And from what I can tell you are not Christian at all. You have a faith in god. But not the God of the Bible. Your faith is in the god of evolution.

It is the responsibility of Christians to question the faith of those who come espousing strange and false doctrines.

Quantrill
 
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Quantrill

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River Jordan said:
Where have I called into question whether or not anyone here is a Christian?
You question the faith of the Christian when you attempt to discredit the Bible. When you make fun of Bible believing Christians who hold to the fundamentals of the faith. When you disparage the literal interpretation of Scriture. When you try and substitute the God of the Bible with your evolutionary god.

As I have said, you and other evoutionists have a two pronged agenda. You want to attempt to make evolution and Christianity compatible. But it's not. And you want to discredit the Bible. Because you have to, to make it compatible. But you can't.

Don't worry however. Your faith in evolution is not in question. Your faith in Jesus Christ is.

By the way, What do you think about Jesus Christ? Who is He?

Quantrill
 

snr5557

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Quantrill said:
You question the faith of the Christian when you attempt to discredit the Bible. When you make fun of Bible believing Christians who hold to the fundamentals of the faith. When you disparage the literal interpretation of Scriture. When you try and substitute the God of the Bible with your evolutionary god.

As I have said, you and other evoutionists have a two pronged agenda. You want to attempt to make evolution and Christianity compatible. But it's not. And you want to discredit the Bible. Because you have to, to make it compatible. But you can't.

Don't worry however. Your faith in evolution is not in question. Your faith in Jesus Christ is.

By the way, What do you think about Jesus Christ? Who is He?

Quantrill
"By the way, What do you think about Jesus Christ? Who is He?"

Seriously Quantrill, again with this questioning of faith?

Before you instantly make assumptions about evolution, learn about it. Could you at least look at all of the evidence she has given you, actually read it, and then give your opinion on it? It's the post that has the seven facts on it. It's on the post "I wish evolution were true....because then I would have wings."
 

Wormwood

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Why don't we let this forum get back to the issue at hand instead of jabbing at each other and name-calling. It is of no value to suggest that fundamentalists are made up of people with fragile and angry psychologies or that old earth/evolutionary proponents are worshipping a false god. Let's deal with the issues.

Here is my take on this entire debate. The very question of this forum is improper because it is built on a false foundation. The idea is that "religion" is somehow separate and distinct from "science." The very fact that someone can understand and interpret the world as an ontologically univocal being is, in fact, a religious presupposition. Unaided "reason" as an equal foundation for perceiving the world is a philosophical assumption made in classrooms every day. We train our children every day that they can operate completely independently of religious belief. This assumption IS a religious belief. Why are we debating and arguing over which facts support our religious beliefs when the entire presuppositions behind this issue are based on false religious principles? Secularism is a positively created ideology, not something that exists when you strip away "faith" as we have been falsely led to believe. All experiences are interpreted experiences. This is a losing battle for all Christians because we have been shaped by secularist assumptions. There is no such thing as "the secular" and religiously neutral perceptions. There is only true and false worship.
 

Quantrill

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snr5557 said:
"By the way, What do you think about Jesus Christ? Who is He?"

Seriously Quantrill, again with this questioning of faith?

Before you instantly make assumptions about evolution, learn about it. Could you at least look at all of the evidence she has given you, actually read it, and then give your opinion on it? It's the post that has the seven facts on it. It's on the post "I wish evolution were true....because then I would have wings."
Simple question. Will you answer?

Evolution is an assumption. It is evolutionists who have assumed.

I already asked if one could prove non-living chemicals give rise to a living cell. The answer is no, but you and evolutionists believe they do anyway. An assumption. A faith.

Quantrill