Is Grace Established By Faith?

rwb said:

Has nothing to do with Calvin! It is FACT, all mankind is physically born, spiritually dead, the result of the fall. Remember, many shall stand before Him at the judgment saying, "Lord, Lord".....and He will say to them depart from Me I do not know you!

Click to expand...

you meant;
Matthew 7:
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

As you see actions are required and it is not a simple of matter Faith. Obedience is absolutely required as best we can muster in this short life or ours, its a process and takes times but one must repent and change, this is what Jesus is teaching us right now, his words are still with us but many have forgotten and cling to false doctrine.

rwb said:

Verse 7:21 is NOT depicting those who are eternally saved by doing the will of God! It's showing the action of those who profess they are saved saying they know the Lord, doing good deeds in His name who are in FACT lawless! Those depicted here: Matthew 7:15 (KJV) Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. If they had been those doing the will of God according to grace through faith, they are not called lawless, rather they will hear the Lord say, "Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. (Mt 25:34) Doing good deeds for the sake of appearing good outwardly, is not according to doing good through the power of God (Spirit) working in us to both will and do according to His good pleasure.

Philippians 2:12-13 (KJV) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Click to expand...

The problem in that explanation is that it moves away from what Jesus actually said and replaces it with another idea. If we stay with Jesus’ own words who Holds Full authirity in Heaven and Earth, the meaning becomes clear and simple.

In Matthew 7:21, Jesus says, “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father.”
He does not say that doing the will is false or useless. He says it is the condition to enter.

Then look at the next verses. These people say they prophesied, cast out demons, and did many works. Jesus answers, “I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work lawlessness.”

This is where the misunderstanding happens.
They were not rejected because they obeyed too much. They were rejected because they did not truly obey.

Jesus already warned just before this:
In Matthew 7:16–20, He says a tree is known by its fruit. A good tree brings good fruit. A bad tree cannot bring good fruit. This is about a real life of obedience, not just outward actions.

Then Jesus explains even more clearly at the end of the same teaching:

In Matthew 7:24–27, He says the wise man is the one who hears His words and does them. The foolish man hears and does not do them. Jesus Himself defines who is true and who is false:

Not the one who claims His name
Not the one who does impressive works
But the one who does His words

So calling those people in Matthew 7 “lawless” does not mean obedience is wrong. It means they were not living according to God’s law, even if they looked religious on the outside.

Jesus says the same thing again in a very direct way In Luke 6:46, “Why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?”

And again: In John 14:15, “If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments.”

And again: In John 12:48, “The word that I spake, the same shall judge him in the last day.”

This shows the standard is not just believing or claiming, but living according to His words.

Now about the idea that “doing the will of God” only means something done by grace without obedience, Jesus Himself already defined the will of God by His teachings. The will of the Father is what Jesus spoke and lived.

Those in Matthew 7 were not rejected because they tried to obey.
They were rejected because their lives did not match Jesus’ words.
They had works, but not true obedience from the heart. Their faith was shallow.

And the ones who enter the kingdom are exactly the ones Jesus described: Those who hear His words and do them.

rwb said:

If our salvation (eternal life) is conditioned upon how good we are, who then shall be saved? For NONE of us are righteous, not one! Salvation is NOT dependent upon my goodness, rather it is through the goodness of God that we are eternally saved.

Click to expand...

What you said about God’s goodness is true, but it is not the whole picture Jesus gave. Jesus never taught that salvation comes with no condition on how we live. He showed that God is good and merciful, but He also made it clear that we must respond by obeying Him. What I write here displeases many and I know this but the truth must be told as Jesus explained to us, His words are very clear, and must be taken as a whole.

He said in Matthew 7:21 (NKJV): “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.”
So it is not enough to simply believe or speak His name. A person must do the Father’s will.

When asked directly about eternal life, Jesus answered in Matthew 19:17 (NKJV): “If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

He also warned that our actions matter at the end. In John 5:28–29 (NKJV):
“...those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.”

And He showed that hearing is not enough. In Matthew 7:24–27 (NKJV), the one who hears His words and does them stands firm, but the one who does not falls.

Now about how many are saved, Jesus spoke very clearly. In Matthew 7:13–14 (NKJV):
“Enter by the narrow gate… because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.”

And again in Luke 13:23–24 (NKJV), when someone asked if only a few are saved, He said:
“Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.”

So Jesus did not teach that everyone is secure just because God is good. He said the way is narrow, few find it, and many will not enter. The truth is that God’s goodness is what makes salvation possible.
But entering life depends on whether we repent, obey, and continue in His words.

We are not saved because we are already good.
But we are also not saved if we refuse to live by what He commands.

That is exactly why the way is narrow and why few find it. This is what Jesus said, and we can see it even today. His words do not change; they are just as important now as the day He spoke them. I understand it is comforting to think everyone is saved, but this is not what Jesus taught.

rwb said:

You're teaching a doctrine of perfectionism, that no man can attain! Again, if our salvation is dependent upon how good we are, then who can be saved? To be consistent will you also teach that we must sell what we have and give to the poor to have treasure in heaven and follow Him?

Matthew 19:16-22 (KJV) And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

Matthew 5:17 (KJV) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Click to expand...

I do not teach perfectionism you misrepresent what I wrote. you add to what I wrote also.

Jesus never said we must reach a perfect level on our own to be saved. He knows our weakness. That is why He calls people to repent, to turn, and to follow Him step by step. It is not about being flawless, it is about a real change of heart that keeps going. and we are not Alone in this, jesus said clearly he would send the hepler, the Holy Spirit do not forget this, we cannot do this alone.

When He said, “if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments,” He was not giving an impossible rule. He was showing the way of life. And when the man said he had kept them, Jesus revealed his heart. The man loved his riches more than God. That is why Jesus told him to give them up. It was not a rule for everyone to sell everything, but a test of what was first in his heart.

Jesus often does this. He goes deeper than actions and looks at what we love inside.

He also said, “If anyone wants to come after Me, let him deny himself, take up his cross, and follow Me.” This is not perfection in one moment. This is a path. A daily walk.

So the question is not “who is good enough?” The question is “who is willing to turn, to obey, and to keep following Him?” He knows we all of us are not enough but he wants us to try and trust in him.

Jesus said the way is narrow and few find it, not because it is impossible, but because many do not want to let go of what holds their heart.

And when He said He did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it, He showed us the true meaning of it by how He lived and what He taught. He did not remove obedience. He made it deeper, from the heart.

So this is not about earning salvation by being perfect. It is about trusting Him enough to obey Him, to repent when we fall, and to continue with a changed heart.

That is the difference.

rwb said:

You're teaching that we repent, obey and continue in His words though our good works. But the only way we are able to repent, obey and continue in His words is by the power of God working in us.

Click to expand...

first I want to make a note here, I write end explain the truth of Jesus , the words he spoke and left for us, what I write are His words.

and yes I agree totally in what you wrote that ""he only way we are able to repent, obey and continue in His words is by the power of God working in us."" Jesus sent us the Holy Spirit to help and guide us also Jesus promised to be with us always, I believe this and have experienced it first hand.

rwb said:

Where have I taught that I think everyone is saved? We are saved by God's grace through faith that is the gift of God to as many as our Lord God shall call. We are eternally saved through Him, according to God willing and working through the Spirit of Christ in us.

Acts 2:39 (KJV) For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Click to expand...

I was not speaking of you specifically about everyone being saved.
What you said about grace and faith is true, but it is not the whole picture Jesus gave.

Yes, salvation begins with God. It is His grace. It is His call. No one can come unless God draws him. But Jesus never stopped there. He always spoke about how a person responds to that call.

Jesus said, “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father.” So faith is not only words or belief. It must lead to obedience.

He also said, “He who endures to the end shall be saved.” This shows that it is not just a moment, but a path that continues.

And again, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.” Love, faith, and obedience are tied together. They cannot be separated.

Even when God calls, people can resist or walk away. Jesus spoke of seeds that begin to grow but fall away because of trials, cares of life, or love of riches. The call was real, but they did not continue.

So yes, grace is a gift, and faith is the way we receive it. But Jesus shows that true faith is living. It follows, it obeys, and it remains.

God starts the work, but we must walk in it.