Virtue: Ambition

Oh how I love a discussion which begins with definitions, and I especially appreciate those you brought in for value and virtue!

And my heart goes out to you for such a challenging situation with your grandchild. I feel your pain because my ex has our son most of the time. But all pain in my life is nothing against the abundance of mercy and blessing the LORD showers upon me.

However, I love words. I am possessed of the Word and would have it no other way. Hence the nature of my response here.

Evil has no virtue. It has action and direction, but no power, no goodness, and no reality. Evil is delusion, denial of the reality of truth, it is not even real. The effects of it are in that it generates suffering, but it is entirely illusory and will be vaporized by the full revelation of truth.

Evil cannot hold virtue any more than darkness can hold light. It is these sort of backward applications of language which have resulted in the attitudes exhibited by your grandchild and the youth of this culture.

Nothing makes sense when the communications are scrambled. This is a drought of the word of unprecedented porportions. Exciting times are ahead and I am thrilled to see what God will do!

...

Oh, and ambition is not a virtue, it is a desire for success. Virtue only overflows and cannot be taken to excess.

Wrangler said:

Thank you.

Click to expand...

The boy I am blessed to call my son has been among God's greatest gifts to me.

Diligence, from "diligent" defined as follows:

1. Steady in application to business; constant in effort or exertion to accomplish what has been undertaken; assiduous; attentive; industrious; not idle or negligent; applied to persons.

2. Steadily applied; prosecuted with care and constant effort; careful.

Diligence is an honorable thing and would no longer be what it is if taken to excess. Thus I may concur with your assertion.

The behavior of most youth is as to be expected according to all revealed truth in Scriptures. The signs of the times are abundant. Why should a nation of idolatrous children be blessed with understanding among their offspring? And yet the power of God is not diminished in the slightest, as all of His promises are presently true and fulfilled.

May His name be praised.

Wrangler said:

This thread is inspired by my 5-yo grandson. (He's being raised by a Pagan mother and a weak father. Because his mother objects to her Christian upbringing, we don't spend nearly as much time with the grandson as we might otherwise. Yesterday was an exception.)

We took him swimming at the YMCA. In the pool I asked him what he wanted to do when he grows up. It's THE question I ask young people. Shocked by his answer, I thought I'd begin the discussion of virtue with his answer. First, some definitions.

Many people confuse VALUES with VIRTUES. The difference is the difference between ENDS and MEANS. We can have good values or bad, good virtues or bad. (A bad virtue is called a vice.) A value is that which you act to gain or keep. A virtue is action necessary to obtain a value. Therefore, virtues are objective, observable. While anyone can claim a value (health), only one with actual virtues can be seen (never exercising or regularly exercising).

One of the most repugnant ideas which is true is that evil can have virtue. In fact, it must to succeed in achieving its evil ends. Hitler would not have done any damage if he was seen as a crazy person drooling as he talked to a lamp post. It was only his ability to garner followers to his ends that the evil became apparent. The same with Satan. If Satan lacked virtue, he's be impotent. Below are the classic Christian "capital" virtues. They are described as "human virtues" in the Catholic Catechism. (What @GodsGrace may call carnal Christian virtues.)

View attachment 76933

The word "ambition" is not on the list but I take it as being synonymous with "diligence," meaning carefulness and persistent effort or work. My grandson's answer to his life's ambition is "to chill." Doesn't this answer reveal the vice of sloth?

I agree with JFK that we all cherish our children's future. Yet, I'm painfully aware of the obstacles my children (and stepchildren) are raising my grandchildren with. I've read the virtue that is foundational to all other virtues is either humility or strength. Ambition is often castigated today, connotation of vice but I perceive life does not proceed without animation from ambition. Thoughts?

Click to expand...

"To chill"
WoW. Is it possible he meant to be happy or did he literally mean to do nothing?

If he means to do nothing than that is certainly sloth. I feel like many kids these days have this same mentality. They just want to be youtube influencers or do some similar type of crap that does nothing to contribute to society.

I wonder where these kids get this mentality?
Teachers, parents, society?

Here is the Ai summary which I think is good

AI Overview

Values are subjective beliefs about what is important (e.g., freedom, success), while virtues are, according to Reddit and Clarion, consistent, objective character habits that reflect high moral excellence (e.g., honesty, courage). Values are personal, situational, and changeable; virtues are universal, unchanging, and embodied through action. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

It is a bit confusing as they can be conflated. I think the easiest way is like the summary says. Values are changable as they are principles or truths outside the person.

Whereas virtues are a characteristic someone becomes or tries to become objectively in that they embody the virtue. Freedom is a value and a person cannot embody freedom if they are objectively locked up.

When societies values change I think this can be any subjective idea about that may be seen as good or bad to different people. So a person may be still seen as virtueous in persuing even evil ideas that become valued.

Its reminds me of the example that people use of how Mafia bosses may kill a snitch one day and and be regarded as virtueous at the same time.

They are seen as a role model head of the family and community leader to look up to because they are a good family man and help the poor. Overlooking the occassional hit they arrange as part of the family business.

The first thing that came to mind when you said your grandson wants to chill was that he may have meant 'relax'. As in life too stressful and I need to chill.

But I can also understand that some just don't have any ambition or even know what they want to be and do. More a lack of identity as to who they are. Maybe even a lack of self esteem in being confident to be anything.

I think many young people have some sort of mental health issue such as depression or anxiety. It can be expressed in apathy and lack of engagement.

But I think modern life can cause dysfunction. A lack of adventure and face to face interaction and mostly fun activities. I loved Boy Scouts and later when older Venturers which was going caving and absailing ect.