TO EAT OR NOT TO EAT ?

Madad21 · Feb 9, 2014

Noahs first act was to worship God and offer sacrifices for the cancellation of sin.

" Clean" animals were fit for God’s presence with "unclean"animals being “unfit for God’s presence.” Anyone who was unclean or who had come in contact with uncleanness was to abstain from public worship until he was cleansed.
The idea being that God is perfect, while uncleanness was death. Normal animals are clean while abnormal animals especially corpses were unclean.
Life and death were not to be mixed, so the unclean was never to enter God’s presence.

It is Ultimately Jesus, the great Mediator and High Priest, who triumphs over death and corruption on behalf of those who trust in Him.

If theres somthing else just come out and say it.

Boaz · Feb 9, 2014

Genesis 7
King James Version (KJV)

7 And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
3 Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.
4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and fortynights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.

The clean were taken by sevens for to keep clean animals to sacrifiecd to GOD , for food and clothing etc
Note if unclean animals were to be eaten God would have let noah take them by the majority to have enough food on the earth

To Noah, after the flood, the Lord said "Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as (or in the same manner) the green herbs have I given you all these things." - Genesis 9:3. So in the same way he gave the green herbs. He gave them the moving things of the earth. Then we turn to Genesis 1:29 and read:"And God said, Behold I have given you every herb bearing seed; which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat".Here, God gave to man the herbs with a provision, and only the ones bearing seeds healthy in this case are we to use for food. So the moving things were given us in the same way.

Ironically God let Noah take the clean by seven and the unclean by two

Why ? so as to allow food for man clean meats and for animal sacrifices

the unclean are scravengers to help clean the earth that was there purpose

Madad21 · Feb 9, 2014

I do understand that Jesus said that by no means did the old law pass away.

The Law is good for a Christian and is still very applicable today.
But the Law was not brought to the western world, it was the gospel, and through understanding the gospel we might find out what it was we were rescued from.

We live by grace.

But its not the fact you still observe the laws that you are wrong, its the fact you still enforce it that you are wrong.

Christ did not enforce the law, he battled with those who did, because by doing so they made themselves pious hypocrites.

If your practicing the Law as worship, by abstaining from unclean things, and you do it in secret then you will be blessed as Christ promised.
Matthew 6:16-18
“And when you fast, do not look gloomy like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces that their fasting may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, that your fasting may not be seen by others but by your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you

But if you teach others to practice the law or judge them as unclean for not, then you judge yourself, because it is only the sanctifying blood of Christ that makes a man clean.

Its like I said the situation was different for Peter and Paul, they had to carry with them nothing but the Grace given them or the message would be lost in pious acts.

It was up to how the Spirit moved amongst the Gentiles as to how a man received his salvation and the fruit thereof.

Paul said;
Philippians 2:12

[SIZE=.75em]12 [/SIZE]Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, [SIZE=.75em]13 [/SIZE]for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.

You said
"People who eat the things pronounced unclean in the Word of God in order to justify themselves like a drowning man grabbing for straw, are willing to risk their eternal welfare on the above point and go on eating the abominable things of God has forbidden."

Do you see the conflict Boaz?

James 4:12
There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

Luke 6:37 ESV / 1,887 helpful votes
“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;

Boaz · Feb 9, 2014

Madad21 said:
I do understand that Jesus said that by no means did the old law pass away.

The Law is good for a Christian and is still very applicable today.
But the Law was not brought to the western world, it was the gospel, and through understanding the gospel we might find out what it was we were rescued from.

We live by grace.

But its not the fact you still observe the laws that you are wrong, its the fact you still enforce it that you are wrong.

Christ did not enforce the law, he battled with those who did, because by doing so they made themselves pious hypocrites.

If your practicing the Law as worship, by abstaining from unclean things, and you do it in secret then you will be blessed as Christ promised.
Matthew 6:16-18
“And when you fast, do not look gloomy like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces that their fasting may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, that your fasting may not be seen by others but by your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you

But if you teach others to practice the law or judge them as unclean for not, then you judge yourself, because it is only the sanctifying blood of Christ that makes a man clean.

Its like I said the situation was different for Peter and Paul, they had to carry with them nothing but the Grace given them or the message would be lost in pious acts.

It was up to how the Spirit moved amongst the Gentiles as to how a man received his salvation and the fruit thereof.

Paul said;
Philippians 2:12

[SIZE=.75em]12 [/SIZE]Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, [SIZE=.75em]13 [/SIZE]for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.

You said
"People who eat the things pronounced unclean in the Word of God in order to justify themselves like a drowning man grabbing for straw, are willing to risk their eternal welfare on the above point and go on eating the abominable things of God has forbidden."

Do you see the conflict Boaz?

James 4:12
There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

Luke 6:37 ESV / 1,887 helpful votes
“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;

Leviticus 19:18
King James Version (KJV)

[SIZE=.75em]18 [/SIZE]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.

Found in the old and magnified in the new

John 7:24
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Know ye not that the saints shall the world ?

Madad21 said:
Noahs first act was to worship God and offer sacrifices for the cancellation of sin.

" Clean" animals were fit for God’s presence with "unclean"animals being “unfit for God’s presence.” Anyone who was unclean or who had come in contact with uncleanness was to abstain from public worship until he was cleansed.
The idea being that God is perfect, while uncleanness was death. Normal animals are clean while abnormal animals especially corpses were unclean.
Life and death were not to be mixed, so the unclean was never to enter God’s presence.

It is Ultimately Jesus, the great Mediator and High Priest, who triumphs over death and corruption on behalf of those who trust in Him.

If theres somthing else just come out and say it.

[SIZE=12pt]1 Timothy 4[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]King James Version[/SIZE][SIZE=9pt] (KJV)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=15pt]1 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Now the Spirit speaketh [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]expressly[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]spirits[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], and doctrines of devils;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]2 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Speaking[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]hot iron[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt];[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]3 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]4 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]refused[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], if it be received with thanksgiving:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]5 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]6 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Jesus Christ[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.[/SIZE]

As the word sanctify means to set apart, there must be two classes of creatures in the world. There was a sign of sanctification before the flood or Noah would not have known the clean from the unclean, in taking the beasts into the ark. Therefore, they were (sanctified) set apart, some clean and some unclean before that time.

If all the animals in the world were clean alike, they could not be sanctified because there would be no clean or unclen to be set apart from; so it remains that there were animals created to be received with thanksgiving, and some not to be received with thanksgiving as a food, and some sanctified by the Word of God, and some not sanctified for food.Paul adds prayer to the setting apart of these foods because we have Christ's example of asking God to bless the food before eating

John said:
This is not proof that we are still to obey the dietary laws. At this time as you have pointed out, Peter not only is still following dietary laws, he doesn't know Gentiles can be saved. He still had a lot to learn at this point in his life

[SIZE=10pt]The key to this verse is [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]"even as the green herbs."[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt] In other words, God gives mankind the authority to eat flesh within the same parameters as He allows us to eat vegetation. Does God allow us to eat poisonous plants like poison ivy, hemlock, deadly nightshade, etc.? Of course not! Just as certain plants are harmful to us, so are certain meats. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]God did not give poisonous herbs as food. He gave man the healthful herbs. Man can determine which herbs are healthful, but man cannot by himself determine which flesh foods are harmful. That is why God had to determine for us in His Word which meats are clean. Since the Flood every movingclean, healthful, nonpoisonous type of animal life is good for food—just as God gave us the healthful, nonpoisonous herbs.[/SIZE]

horsecamp said:
IT APPLYS TO LUTEFISK .. DO NOT EAT LUTEFISK !!! DONT EVER LEGALIZE LUTEFISK..

Parents ------------------if you dont talk to your kids about lutefisk who will?

A Time before the Sinai Law
The clean and unclean laws are specifically mentioned early in God's Word, in the account when Noah was commanded to take " clean animal seven " (Genesis 7:2). When he and his family were back on dry land, Noah "took of every clean animal and of every clean bird, and offered burnt offerings on the altar" (Genesis 8:20). This suggests that these laws were known and practiced before the book of leviticus—

Madad21 said:
Dear Boaz
So the vision was only that of the uncircumcised unclean, which are now made clean and all nations great and small like the different kinds of animals can nestle upon the beautifully woven cloth of the gospel which moves both heavenward as well as abundantly toward the earth.

Hang on a minute, if the cloth goes up as Christ now receives all nations, why does it come back down again filled with all manner of unclean animals? and now my Lord says Kill Eat?

Would not the cloth come down empty and the command be fill the cloth with what was once unclean, go back up and come down empty again?

Not at all Boaz
should we not welcome the cloth of the gospel of Christ by which we are freed from the distinction of meats made by the law of Moses?
Every creature of God is good and nothing is to be refused, not just because we now gain a pigs flesh, but because our conscience is now freed from the yoke of the law, that we might serve our Father without fear.

The cloth made what was formerly unclean clean by the freeing power of Christ, and the cloth was ready to receive the nations.

Boaz, how could Peter and Paul enter in to Greek society as hypocrites who preach freedom from the law, but when invited in to a mans house to dine and share the good news of Christ refuse to share the mans food because of the law?

Then what do they preach?

Jesus had already made it clear that it was not the ceremonial washing of hands that made a man clean, he even went as far as to announce to everyone with in earshot that it in fact doesn't matter all what a man puts into his mouth but what comes out is what makes him clean.
Such audacity that the Pharisee's were in shock at what they heard.

Boaz, i tell you sir that what was to come out of the mouths of Peter and Paul amongst the nations had to be clean, observance of the law was a recognition of works based righteousness by the Law. they could not preach one thing and demonstrate another, thats exactly what the Pharisees themselves did.

You can preach Levitical Law until you're blue in the face my dear friend, but what God has made clean you cannot make unclean again, all your doing is denying the righteous atonement of Christs blood spilt on your behalf.

Peter took another step that night on the roof, another step of faith.
Wasn't it Peter who took a step of faith out of the boat?
Yes because he had his eye on Christ and he stood solidly upon the water despite the law of physics.
And here he was once again being asked to step out of the boat, not with an eye on the crashing foreboding waves of the law that would make him doubt and sink with fear, but with his eye on Christ upon whose atoning blood he could walk soundly for the rest of his days without fear and doubt.

As do all who follow Jesus

it is apparent that Peter himself does not at first understand what his vision meant (verse 17); he certainly does not jump to the conclusion that all meats are now clean. While he is pondering it, a delegation from Cornelius arrives and requests that he travel with them to Caesarea to speak to the centurion. God tells the apostle directly to go with the men, "for I have sent them" (verse 20). Obviously, God was orchestrating the whole affair.
within the context,

Peter himself reveals what the vision meant. To those assembled in Cornelius' house, he says, "You know how unlawful it is for a Jewish man to keep company with or go to one of another nation. But God has shown me that I should not call any man common or unclean" (verse 28). The vision of unclean animals was merely an illustration God used to help Peter understand that salvation was open to those previously held at arm's length (see Acts 11:18). This is further evidenced by the poured out of the Holy Spirit visibly on these Gentiles (Acts 10:44-47). Neither Peter nor Luke, the author of Acts, makes any further commentary regarding clean or unclean foods, as the vision had served a greater purpose.

First we must establish what sanctify means

John 17:17
King James Version (KJV)

17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

for it is sanctified by prayer and the word of God ." Sanctify means "to set apart for a specific use or purpose." The apostle is saying, then, that certain "creatures" are sanctified or set apart as human food—by what means?—by God's Word, the Bible! God reveals these "sanctified" meats to us in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14.

Boaz said:
Leviticus 19:18
King James Version (KJV)

[SIZE=.75em]18 [/SIZE]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.

Found in the old and magnified in the new

John 7:24
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Know ye not that the saints shall the world ?

[SIZE=12pt]1 Timothy 4[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]King James Version[/SIZE][SIZE=9pt] (KJV)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=15pt]1 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Now the Spirit speaketh [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]expressly[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]spirits[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], and doctrines of devils;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]2 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Speaking[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]hot iron[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt];[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]3 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]4 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]refused[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], if it be received with thanksgiving:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]5 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]6 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Jesus Christ[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.[/SIZE]

As the word sanctify means to set apart, there must be two classes of creatures in the world. There was a sign of sanctification before the flood or Noah would not have known the clean from the unclean, in taking the beasts into the ark. Therefore, they were (sanctified) set apart, some clean and some unclean before that time.

If all the animals in the world were clean alike, they could not be sanctified because there would be no clean or unclen to be set apart from; so it remains that there were animals created to be received with thanksgiving, and some not to be received with thanksgiving as a food, and some sanctified by the Word of God, and some not sanctified for food.Paul adds prayer to the setting apart of these foods because we have Christ's example of asking God to bless the food before eating

[SIZE=10pt]The key to this verse is [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]"even as the green herbs."[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt] In other words, God gives mankind the authority to eat flesh within the same parameters as He allows us to eat vegetation. Does God allow us to eat poisonous plants like poison ivy, hemlock, deadly nightshade, etc.? Of course not! Just as certain plants are harmful to us, so are certain meats. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]God did not give poisonous herbs as food. He gave man the healthful herbs. Man can determine which herbs are healthful, but man cannot by himself determine which flesh foods are harmful. That is why God had to determine for us in His Word which meats are clean. Since the Flood every movingclean, healthful, nonpoisonous type of animal life is good for food—just as God gave us the healthful, nonpoisonous herbs.[/SIZE]

A Time before the Sinai Law
The clean and unclean laws are specifically mentioned early in God's Word, in the account when Noah was commanded to take " clean animal seven " (Genesis 7:2). When he and his family were back on dry land, Noah "took of every clean animal and of every clean bird, and offered burnt offerings on the altar" (Genesis 8:20). This suggests that these laws were known and practiced before the book of leviticus—

it is apparent that Peter himself does not at first understand what his vision meant (verse 17); he certainly does not jump to the conclusion that all meats are now clean. While he is pondering it, a delegation from Cornelius arrives and requests that he travel with them to Caesarea to speak to the centurion. God tells the apostle directly to go with the men, "for I have sent them" (verse 20). Obviously, God was orchestrating the whole affair.
within the context,

Peter himself reveals what the vision meant. To those assembled in Cornelius' house, he says, "You know how unlawful it is for a Jewish man to keep company with or go to one of another nation. But God has shown me that I should not call any man common or unclean" (verse 28). The vision of unclean animals was merely an illustration God used to help Peter understand that salvation was open to those previously held at arm's length (see Acts 11:18). This is further evidenced by the poured out of the Holy Spirit on these Gentiles (Acts 10:44-47). Neither Peter nor Luke, the author of Acts, makes any further commentary regarding clean or unclean foods, as the vision had served a greater purpose.

First we must establish what sanctify means

John 17:17
King James Version (KJV)

17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

for it is sanctified by prayer and the word of God ." Sanctify means "to set apart for a specific use or purpose." The apostle is saying, then, that certain "creatures" are sanctified or set apart as human food—by what means?—by God's Word, the Bible! God reveals these "sanctified" meats to us in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14.

Madad21 · Feb 9, 2014

Boaz said:
Leviticus 19:18
King James Version (KJV)

[SIZE=.75em]18 [/SIZE]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.

Found in the old and magnified in the new

Great, now show me where we are not supposed to eat unclean animals is now magnified in the new.

Boaz said:
John 7:24
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Who is Jesus speaking to in that scripture?
Jesus was doing what he came here to do, and in doing so never broke even one of the commandments.

You assume to judge righteously. but what did Jesus say;
19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, (Matthew 5:19) So you better be keeping all the law down to the last letter Boaz

But whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.(Matthew 5:19)
Who is the only one who managed to do that?
I will give you a clue,... it was Jesus.

1 Samuel 16:7

7 But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The Lord does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”

What is in the heart of a man who believes in Gods only begotten Son (John 3:16)

Compared to a man who "sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly"

What do you think Saint John thinks of your " righteous judgment." now?

Boaz said:
Leviticus 19:18
King James Version (KJV)

[SIZE=.75em]18 [/SIZE]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.

Found in the old and magnified in the new

John 7:24
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Know ye not that the saints shall the world ?

[SIZE=12pt]1 Timothy 4[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]King James Version[/SIZE][SIZE=9pt] (KJV)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=15pt]1 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Now the Spirit speaketh [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]expressly[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]spirits[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], and doctrines of devils;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]2 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Speaking[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]hot iron[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt];[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]3 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]4 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]refused[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], if it be received with thanksgiving:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]5 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]6 [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Jesus Christ[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt], nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.[/SIZE]

You know if you have to resort to copy and paste because you don't even understand your argument enough to use your own words then why bother keeping it up.
at least do me the favour of posting up the link so I can read the whole article http://www.cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/RA/k/1049/Clean-Unclean-Meats.htm :huh:

1 Timothy 4

The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

1 Timothy 1:3-20

As I urged you when I went into Macedonia,stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work—which is by faith. The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. Some have departed from these and have turned to meaningless talk. They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.
We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

What is the sound doctrine that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God?

1 Timothy 1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Boaz · Feb 9, 2014

Madad21 said:
Great, now show me where we are not supposed to eat unclean animals is now magnified in the new.

Who is Jesus speaking to in that scripture?
Jesus was doing what he came here to do, and in doing so never broke even one of the commandments.

You assume to judge righteously. but what did Jesus say;
19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, (Matthew 5:19) So you better be keeping all the law down to the last letter Boaz

But whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.(Matthew 5:19)
Who is the only one who managed to do that?
I will give you a clue,... it was Jesus.

1 Samuel 16:7

7 But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The Lord does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”

What is in the heart of a man who believes in Gods only begotten Son (John 3:16)

Compared to a man who "sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly"

What do you think Saint John thinks of your " righteous judgment." now?

You know if you have to resort to copy and paste because you don't even understand your argument enough to use your own words then why bother keeping it up.
at least do me the favour of posting up the link so I can read the whole article http://www.cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/RA/k/1049/Clean-Unclean-Meats.htm :huh:
1 Timothy 4

The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

1 Timothy 1:3-20

As I urged you when I went into Macedonia,stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work—which is by faith. The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. Some have departed from these and have turned to meaningless talk. They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.
We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

What is the sound doctrine that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God?

1 Timothy 1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

My friend the link will shew for some just click on the word in blue

by just putting the link no one read them

Anyhow i will like you to explain this verse what time period is this ?

Isaiah 66:15-17
King James Version (KJV)

[SIZE=.75em]15 [/SIZE]For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
[SIZE=.75em]16 [/SIZE]For by fire and by his sword will the Lord plead with all flesh: and the slain of theLord shall be many.
[SIZE=.75em]17 [/SIZE]They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the Lord.

Madad21 · Feb 10, 2014

Sorry Boaz I did not notice you had replied.

The scripture you chose from Isaiah was not only in reference to what was going on around him at the time but also played a great significance in the foretelling of end time events

Isaiah 66:17
“Those who consecrate and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following one who is among those who eat the flesh of pigs, rats and other unclean things—they will meet their end together with the one they follow,” declares the Lord.

These people go through observances or ceremonies (something they used to do for God) to make themselves ritually clean only to engage in idolatrous worship.
“Following one” refers to the idol to which they worship, the garden being the place of such pagan worship ceremonies.
These idols probably brought in from exile in Babylon and so they follow the pattern of the world ignoring Gods command not to engage in such unclean practices as you had pointed out in the Levitical laws which were still very much in effect at the time.

This also gives us insight in to the second coming.
People who practice religion are still conformed to the way of this world chasing after idols and their own desires.
These people think that by their observances and ceremonies that God cannot see their unclean practices; this was especially true for the Pharisees, as Jesus had pointed out on so many occasions.

God has given us a new Law which is by grace and faith.
But there are still those who practice religion by works are those who ceremony sanctify themselves only to engage in the sinful practice of idolatry, themselves and their works being that very idol.
They worship not Christ as Lord but their own righteousness in the observance of religion and Law. They ignore the freedom brought at a hefty price and insult God by exalting themselves at the foot of the cross.

Boaz · Feb 10, 2014

Madad21 said:
Sorry Boaz I did not notice you had replied.

The scripture you chose from Isaiah was not only in reference to what was going on around him at the time but also played a great significance in the foretelling of end time events

Isaiah 66:17
“Those who consecrate and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following one who is among those who eat the flesh of pigs, rats and other unclean things—they will meet their end together with the one they follow,” declares the Lord.

These people go through observances or ceremonies (something they used to do for God) to make themselves ritually clean only to engage in idolatrous worship.
“Following one” refers to the idol to which they worship, the garden being the place of such pagan worship ceremonies.
These idols probably brought in from exile in Babylon and so they follow the pattern of the world ignoring Gods command not to engage in such unclean practices as you had pointed out in the Levitical laws which were still very much in effect at the time.

This also gives us insight in to the second coming.
People who practice religion are still conformed to the way of this world chasing after idols and their own desires.
These people think that by their observances and ceremonies that God cannot see their unclean practices; this was especially true for the Pharisees, as Jesus had pointed out on so many occasions.

God has given us a new Law which is by grace and faith.
But there are still those who practice religion by works are those who ceremony sanctify themselves only to engage in the sinful practice of idolatry, themselves and their works being that very idol.
They worship not Christ as Lord but their own righteousness in the observance of religion and Law. They ignore the freedom brought at a hefty price and insult God by exalting themselves at the foot of the cros“For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.” How easily we could prevent confusion if we accepted exactly what the Bible says.

“Well, since we are not under the law but under grace, we do not need to keep the Ten Commandments any longer.” Is this a valid point? The Bible certainly does say that we are not under the law, but does that imply that we are free from the obligation to obey it? Do we then go on a rampasge and steal kill etc .

After stating that we are not under law but grace, he asks, “What then?” This simply means, “How are we to understand this?” Then notice his answer. In anticipation that some will construe his words to mean that you can break the law because you are under grace, he says, “

Shall we sin (break the law) because we are not under the law but under grace? God forbid.” being under grace does not give a license to break the law.

Would you kill because you are under grace ?

Madad21 said:
Sorry Boaz I did not notice you had replied.

The scripture you chose from Isaiah was not only in reference to what was going on around him at the time but also played a great significance in the foretelling of end time events

Isaiah 66:17
“Those who consecrate and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following one who is among those who eat the flesh of pigs, rats and other unclean things—they will meet their end together with the one they follow,” declares the Lord.

These people go through observances or ceremonies (something they used to do for God) to make themselves ritually clean only to engage in idolatrous worship.
“Following one” refers to the idol to which they worship, the garden being the place of such pagan worship ceremonies.
These idols probably brought in from exile in Babylon and so they follow the pattern of the world ignoring Gods command not to engage in such unclean practices as you had pointed out in the Levitical laws which were still very much in effect at the time.

This also gives us insight in to the second coming.
People who practice religion are still conformed to the way of this world chasing after idols and their own desires.
These people think that by their observances and ceremonies that God cannot see their unclean practices; this was especially true for the Pharisees, as Jesus had pointed out on so many occasions.

God has given us a new Law which is by grace and faith.
But there are still those who practice religion by works are those who ceremony sanctify themselves only to engage in the sinful practice of idolatry, themselves and their works being that very idol.
They worship not Christ as Lord but their own righteousness in the observance of religion and Law. They ignore the freedom brought at a hefty price and insult God by exalting themselves at the foot of the cross.

Would you eat food offer to idols ? Why or Why Not ?

horsecamp · Feb 10, 2014

Boaz said:
Do you smoke why or why not ?

smoking is like playing football both have been proven to be bad for some peoples earthly health..

The most dangerous thing I can think of to earthly life.. Would be telling the good news of Jesus in some anti-Christian places around the world..

yet unlike the other two is so worth the price paid..

as in hell I don't think there is a non-smoking section..

Arnie Manitoba · Feb 10, 2014

Watching Gentile Christians is like watching a comedy act

They come as pagans , find Christ through faith , then try to be like Jews under the law , only to find they must come back to Christ by faith because they cannot fulfill the law.

And around and around they go , year after year.

Like an endless rerun of a silly comedy

Lord Leviticus one day , Lord Jesus the next day.

.

Madad21 · Feb 10, 2014

Boaz said:
“Well, since we are not under the law but under grace, we do not need to keep the Ten Commandments any longer.” Is this a valid point? The Bible certainly does say that we are not under the law, but does that imply that we are free from the obligation to obey it? Do we then go on a rampasge and steal kill etc .

After stating that we are not under law but grace, he asks, “What then?” This simply means, “How are we to understand this?” Then notice his answer. In anticipation that some will construe his words to mean that you can break the law because you are under grace, he says, “

Shall we sin (break the law) because we are not under the law but under grace? God forbid.” being under grace does not give a license to break the law.

Would you kill because you are under grace ?

Would you eat food offer to idols ? Why or Why Not ?

How can you be so far off the mark?

Was my break down of Isaiah not what you had anticipated, maybe you thought you had managed to set another snare.
Doesn't all this seem a little familiar to you?

If you didnt like the break down then argue that particular scripture with me so I can see my mistake, its easy enough to do.

I should go find a 3 year old and let him answer this one.

Why would anybody want to kill another man weather they are under the law or not, were you not given a mind of your own?
are you afraid that if you stop observing the law that you will go on a rampage. then its not the law you need but you might need a psychiatrist.

What happens to a man after he comes in to a relationship with Christ.
Paul says do not be conformed to the pattern of this world but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.

This means being ready to receive something from the Lord, its implied.
Who is it that renews your mind?
Of course its Christ through the Holy Spirit.
You begin to turn from being conformed to this world and the idols therein, that's called repentance.
It has absolutely nothing to do with the daily observance of the old Law.

If you observe the Law as one trying to please God, that's not repentance that's called payment.
How long does this person wish to stand in defiance of the cross and insult God with his unclean gifts.

If loving and believing in Jesus comes down to things like what meat you eat. Then I guess were all in for a hard time including you.

If you think that being under grace is a license to be a blight on society, then you know absolutely nothing about what it means to be in Christ.

Suhar · Feb 10, 2014

Christian tradition that I was brought up in teaches that Christians are not to eat blood or anything with blood in it. No blood sausages and stuff like that. I agree with that. Nothing offered as sacrifice to any "gods" but I hope that whatever Satanists sacrifice is not sold in stores. It maybe though. There is a Satanists gathering place and smoked meat place in same town I live next to. Less the quarter mile apart. Thank you for this topic. I think I will stop buying meat from that place just to make sure.

PS. If you think that there is no Satanist/Luceferian/....many other names religion is not out there you are crazy! You would be utterly shocked if you knew how much of it is all around you! If you think you know how many Christians are around you... multiply that few times!

We are the TINY minority of the population here. Very different in Heaven though!

.

Arnie Manitoba · Feb 10, 2014

I think Ludefisk is from Satanists

Madad21 · Feb 11, 2014

I personally eat a lot of tuna and chicken because Im a powerlifter, chook, fish oats and full cream milk powder all day long. Ive never really been a big fan of pork or lamb. Sometimes I might eat a steak sandwich. but i'm not a huge steak guy.

Floyd · Mar 8, 2014

Christians are not held to any dietry conditions in this Age!

FASTING TODAY:

There is nothing wrong with the occasional abstinence from food.

However, there is no requirement for Christians.

In the Old Testament, the rules laid down for the Jews, had relevance to specific purpose, (see Lev. and Deut.), and were a precursor, for full understanding of the Righteous requirements of God (and were a foreshadow of The Perfect Sacrifice, Jesus). Remembering that the Jews were commissioned to take The Truth to the nations, these rules were needed, to cleans them, and to remind them!

Our Lord did comment to His disciples,(Matt. 17:21), when they could not cast out certain evil spirits, “this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting”, implying that fasting has special powers of strengthening. Jesus here was talking whilst on His special mission to Israel, “I come only to the lost sheep of Israel”, (Matt. 15:24), and was the pre-Kingdom Age. It is very likely that similar conditions will prevail when Israel is again “Ammi”, (My people).

For now, Christians can occasionally fast, but it is not a requirement! It should never be for more than one day, (unless for medical reasons), because we have a duty to stay healthy for our witness, appearance, for family, and for our reputations as Christians.

There is real danger that individuals will weaken themselves physically, and damage their health. Also, the enemy, Satan, is continually looking for whatever way he can attack a person, so as to allow his spirits to affect, or in a non Christian, to take possession! The Apostle Paul made it very clear that all food should be received with thanksgiving.

A real problem is that some groups advocate fasting. The groups in question look identical to genuine Christian groups! Some are called Pentecostal, others Charismatic, but they go under many titles. They have a number of common characteristics, they demand complete adherence to the leaders, to the exclusion of ones own mind; and in particular they state that if the person cannot perform miraculous acts, they are not saved! They base these teachings on "the signs following" of Acts 2, taking those events completely out of context. If a person questions these teachings, they invariably become aggressive, and even belligerent! Their teaching on fasting weakens the person to their will, and makes them easier to control, see: Charismatic teaching:

An interesting indicator to the genuine seeker of Truth, is that women often are very active in these aberrant groups, and even hold positions of "ministry", which goes completely against Paul's teaching! 1Tim. 2:12, "but I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over a man, but to be in silence". Paul goes on to say that women's role is teaching women and children, and caring for their household.

Subjectindex

James Forthwright · Mar 15, 2014

Floyd said:
Christians are not held to any dietry conditions in this Age!

That is not what the New Testament teaches! Nowhere in the NT will you find the Christians at Jerusalem partaking of "unclean" foods. In fact, even in their instructions to Gentile Christian believers there were certain dietary restrictions (and they are repeated three times for those who are hard of hearing) Acts 15:20 Acts 15:20 Acts 21:25

FASTING TODAY:

There is nothing wrong with the occasional abstinence from food.

You claim there is nothing wrong with fasting then go on for several paragraphs proclaiming just the opposite! I was thoroughly impressed with some of your recent posts, Floyd, but on this thread you've missed the mark entirely.

However, there is no requirement for Christians.

If one wishes to follow Christ's example they will fast.

In the Old Testament, the rules laid down for the Jews, had relevance to specific purpose, (see Lev. and Deut.), and were a precursor, for full understanding of the Righteous requirements of God (and were a foreshadow of The Perfect Sacrifice, Jesus). Remembering that the Jews were commissioned to take The Truth to the nations, these rules were needed, to cleans them, and to remind them!

Absolutely nothing changed the elementary digestive system of swine and their inability to process toxins nor the other negative health aspects of ingesting pork, shellfish, bottom feeding fish or the flesh of carnivores. God gave His children specific directions in the Bible as to which animals were to be considered as food and which were to be avoided. It's not just good advice for those that call themselves "Jews"

Our Lord did comment to His disciples,(Matt. 17:21), when they could not cast out certain evil spirits, “this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting”, implying that fasting has special powers of strengthening. Jesus here was talking whilst on His special mission to Israel, “I come only to the lost sheep of Israel”, (Matt. 15:24), and was the pre-Kingdom Age. It is very likely that similar conditions will prevail when Israel is again “Ammi”, (My people).

Just whom constitutes the modern people of "Israel"? Hint: It's not those who claim to be "chosen" or those occupying Palestine today.

For now, Christians can occasionally fast, but it is not a requirement! It should never be for more than one day, (unless for medical reasons), because we have a duty to stay healthy for our witness, appearance, for family, and for our reputations as Christians.

Nonsense. Fasting sharpens one's spiritual sensitivity and is highly beneficial physically as well as spiritually. Sure, some moderation is called for especially for those unaccustomed to regular fasting. There is also partial fasts, such as abstaining from solid foods or certain meats that one can observe. Jesus, Himself, declared that His followers should begin fasting after His ascension. Matthew 9:15 Mark 2:19 Luke 5:35 (again repeated three times for the hard of hearing).

There is real danger that individuals will weaken themselves physically, and damage their health. Also, the enemy, Satan, is continually looking for whatever way he can attack a person, so as to allow his spirits to affect, or in a non Christian, to take possession! The Apostle Paul made it very clear that all food should be received with thanksgiving.

The problem is: WHAT CONSTITUTES "FOOD"? If someone opens an all you can eat BBQ buffet of buzzards, possum, red tide clams and strangled dog meat will you partake? No, you probably wouldn't because deep down inside (though you mouth proclaims otherwise) you know they are "unclean" exactly as God defined them thousands of years ago.

A real problem is that some groups advocate fasting. The groups in question look identical to genuine Christian groups! Some are called Pentecostal, others Charismatic, but they go under many titles. They have a number of common characteristics, they demand complete adherence to the leaders, to the exclusion of ones own mind; and in particular they state that if the person cannot perform miraculous acts, they are not saved! They base these teachings on "the signs following" of Acts 2, taking those events completely out of context. If a person questions these teachings, they invariably become aggressive, and even belligerent! Their teaching on fasting weakens the person to their will, and makes them easier to control, see: Charismatic teaching:

More nonsense! There are some Charismatic teachings that are worthwhile and others which are errant (just like all the other Christian denominational doctrines). We should all IMO strive to be as least intelligent as a cow, i.e. learn to eat the hay and spit out the sticks.

An interesting indicator to the genuine seeker of Truth, is that women often are very active in these aberrant groups, and even hold positions of "ministry", which goes completely against Paul's teaching! 1Tim. 2:12, "but I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over a man, but to be in silence". Paul goes on to say that women's role is teaching women and children, and caring for their household.

Philip the evangelist had four daughters who prophesied. Would you question the validity of these ladies "ministries"? Acts 21:8-9

Floyd · Mar 16, 2014

There is nothing wrong with the occasional abstinence from food.

However, there is no requirement for Christians.

In the Old Testament, the rules laid down for the Jews, had relevance to specific purpose, (see Lev. and Deut.), and were a precursor, for full understanding of the Righteous requirements of God (and were a foreshadow of The Perfect Sacrifice, Jesus). Remembering that the Jews were commissioned to take The Truth to the nations, these rules were needed, to cleans them, and to remind them!

Our Lord did comment to His disciples,(Matt. 17:21), when they could not cast out certain evil spirits, “this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting”, implying that fasting has special powers of strengthening. Jesus here was talking whilst on His special mission to Israel, “I come only to the lost sheep of Israel”, (Matt. 15:24), and was the pre-Kingdom Age. It is very likely that similar conditions will prevail when Israel is again “Ammi”, (My people).

For now, Christians can occasionally fast, but it is not a requirement! It should never be for more than one day, (unless for medical reasons), because we have a duty to stay healthy for our witness, appearance, for family, and for our reputations as Christians.

There is real danger that individuals will weaken themselves physically, and damage their health. Also, the enemy, Satan, is continually looking for whatever way he can attack a person, so as to allow his spirits to affect, or in a non Christian, to take possession! The Apostle Paul made it very clear that all food should be received with thanksgiving.

A real problem is that some groups advocate fasting. The groups in question look identical to genuine Christian groups! Some are called Pentecostal, others Charismatic, but they go under many titles. They have a number of common characteristics, they demand complete adherence to the leaders, to the exclusion of ones own mind; and in particular they state that if the person cannot perform miraculous acts, they are not saved! They base these teachings on "the signs following" of Acts 2, taking those events completely out of context. If a person questions these teachings, they invariably become aggressive, and even belligerent! Their teaching on fasting weakens the person to their will, and makes them easier to control, see: Charismatic teaching:

An interesting indicator to the genuine seeker of Truth, is that women often are very active in these aberrant groups, and even hold positions of "ministry", which goes completely against Paul's teaching! 1Tim. 2:12, "but I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over a man, but to be in silence". Paul goes on to say that women's role is teaching women and children, and caring for their household.

James Forthwright · Mar 22, 2014

Floyd, why did you repost your previous post #35 and totally ignore my response #36? This is supposed to be a forum where thoughts and opinions about scriptural issues are exchanged and discussed. This is also the CHRISTIAN DEBATE section. What are you doing here?

Search

Search

TO EAT OR NOT TO EAT ?

Madad21

Boast in Christ

Boaz

New Member

Madad21

Boast in Christ

Boaz

New Member

Madad21

Boast in Christ

Boaz

New Member

Madad21

Boast in Christ

Boaz

New Member

horsecamp

New Member

Arnie Manitoba

Well-Known Member

Madad21

Boast in Christ

Suhar

New Member

Arnie Manitoba

Well-Known Member

Madad21

Boast in Christ

Floyd

Active Member

James Forthwright

Member

Floyd

Active Member

James Forthwright

Member

Similar threads