Eight objections to evolution

Armour of God · May 15, 2026

Grailhunter said:
At one time science thought they had it all explained.....The Atom and subatomic particles and the universe. But as it went a long they found out the more they know the more questions arise. They thought electrons orbited the nucleus but then they found out that electrons were disappear in one place and reappearing in another at the speed of light....Then they found intelligent subatomic particles.....God is everywhere, is this part of God's awareness? Then they discovered DNA, and realized it was more or less a biological program and then they discovered the complexities of DNA to the point that there is no way it could have happened by accident. It had to be designed by intelligence. As time goes on science is proving God exists and a lot of the scriptures are a matter of history.

True, the more they look into the cell the more complicated they realise that life is.
This makes more improbable that any species can evolve from another through random events.

Grailhunter · May 15, 2026

Armour of God said:
Strawman. I'm not arguing flat earth, I've said this multiple times now.
Besides, bible doesn't say the earth is flat anyway

My point was that teaching the theory of evolution as infallible, pulls people away from God, as it did with me.
And that they should listen to the other side of the argument, the intelligent design side.
Wouldn't you agree?

Do you believe Adam and Eve were monkeys?

No, I do not believe Adan and Eve were monkeys. The "great ape" was a little over 2 million years ago.
All of reality has to include God and theory of Intelligent Design includes God.

Armour of God · May 15, 2026

Grailhunter said:
LOL The scriptures do not say the earth is flat.....LOL
Why did the Jews and Christians believe that the world was flat and the sun and moon and stars moved around it? Why did they believe the world was on a fixed foundation? And why did sailors worry about sailing off the end of the world?

It wasn’t just the Jews and Christians; it was a common belief of the time period. And you will see a lot of references to “ the ends of the world and ends of the earth” The phrase mean something entirely different to us because we know the planet is round but, back then it was a fear…..of falling off the ends of the world….particularly for sailors.

The scriptures detail the earth stationary and flat and on a foundation.

According to these scriptures the earth has a foundation….and it was set on pillars that could be shaken but the earth could not move and the sun and moon moved around it….and if an object was tall enough it could be seen from the four corners of the earth because the earth was flat….and it had corners….and the sun and moon can stop traveling around the flat earth…. and heaven has windows.

1st Chronicles 16:30
Tremble before him, all the earth! The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved….. (They believed that the Earth did not rotate or move….. everything… sun, moon, and stars, orbits the earth.)

Psalm 104:5
He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.

1st Samuel 2:8
He raises the poor from the dust and lifts the needy from the ash heap; he seats them with princes and has them inherit a throne of honor. For the foundations of the earth are the LORD’s; on them he has set the world.

Daniel 4:11
The tree grew large and became strong And its height reached to the sky, And it was visible to the end of the whole earth. The earth would have to be flat for the tree to be visible from the whole earth.

Isaiah 11:12
He will raise a banner for the nations and gather the exiles of Israel; he will assemble the scattered people of Judah from the four quarters of the earth….

Revelation 7:1
After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree…..The earth has corners,

Job 28:24
For he looks to the ends of the earth and sees everything under the heavens.

Job 37:3
He unleashes his lightning beneath the whole heaven and sends it to the ends of the earth……..the earth has ends?

Jeremiah 51:16
When he utters his voice there is a tumult of waters in the heavens, and he makes the mist rise from the ends of the earth. He makes lightning for the rain, and he brings forth the wind from his storehouses.

John 17:24
Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world.

Proverbs 30:4
Who has ascended to heaven and come down? Who has gathered the wind in his fists? Who has wrapped up the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth?

Psalm 19:4-6
Their voice goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them he has set a tent for the sun, which comes out like a bridegroom leaving his chamber, and, like a strong man, runs its course with joy. Its rising is from the end of the heavens, and its circuit to the end of them, and there is nothing hidden from its heat.

Psalm 67:7
God shall bless us; let all the ends of the earth fear him!

Psalm 98:3
He has remembered his steadfast love and faithfulness to the house of Israel. All the ends of the earth have seen the salvation of our God.

Jeremiah 16:19
O Lord, my strength and my stronghold, my refuge in the day of trouble, to you shall the nations come from the ends of the earth and say: “Our fathers have inherited nothing but lies, worthless things in which there is no profit.

1st Samuel 2:10
The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces; against them he will thunder in heaven. The Lord will judge the ends of the earth; he will give strength to his king and exalt the power of his anointed.”

Psalm 19:4
Their voice goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them he has set a tent for the sun,
(The ends of the world…..the ends of the earth….the four corners!! This was a big concern with sailors….that they would fall off the end of the world.)

Genesis 7:11
In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened……(windows in the filament?)

Genesis 7:2
The fountains of the deep and the windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained,

Isaiah 24:18
He who flees at the sound of the terror shall fall into the pit, and he who climbs out of the pit shall be caught in the snare. For the windows of heaven are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble.

Proverbs 8:29
And the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stopped in the midst of heaven and did not hurry to set for about a whole day.

Psalms 75:3
When the earth totters, and all its inhabitants, it is I who keep steady its pillars.…(the earth set on pillars?)

Job 9:6
Who shakes the earth out of its place, and its pillars tremble;

Ecclesiastes 1:5
The sun rises, and the sun goes down, and hastens to the place where it rises……(there is a place where the sun rises?)

Habukkuk 3:11
The sun and moon stood still in their place at the light of your arrows as they sped, at the flash of your glittering spear.

Joshua 10:12-13
At that time Joshua spoke to the Lord in the day when the Lord gave the Amorites over to the sons of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, “Sun, stand still at Gibeon, and moon, in the Valley of Aijalon.”And the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stopped in the midst of heaven and did not hurry to set for about a whole day……
It would be that the earth stopped rotating not the sun and moon stopping.

Over the years science has proven a lot of what in the Old Testament is true. But there is the human perspective of trying to explain and understand some events.

You still strawmanning me.
This is all metaphorical stuff your quoting.
None of it is literal. Man has known the world is a globe since the ancient Greeks and Egyptians

Grailhunter · May 15, 2026

Armour of God said:
True, the more they look into the cell the more complicated they realise that life is.
This makes more improbable that any species can evolve from another through random events.

Well some believe evolution was all about surviving mutations.
I believe the changes were God driven.

Armour of God · May 15, 2026

Grailhunter said:
No, I do not believe Adan and Eve were monkeys. The "great ape" was a little over 2 million years ago.
All of reality has to include God and theory of Intelligent Design includes God.

Because science says we evolved from monkeys. It says God doesn't exist.
So do you admit that science is wrong at least in some part?

Grailhunter · May 15, 2026

Armour of God said:
You still strawmanning me.
This is all metaphorical stuff your quoting.
None of it is literal. Man has known the world is a globe since the ancient Greeks and Egyptians

No that is all scriptures.

Armour of God · May 16, 2026

Grailhunter said:
No that is all scriptures.

Metaphorical

Armour of God · May 16, 2026

@Grailhunter

I never said everything in the bible is true so can you please stop trying to strawman me with flat earth and stick to the topic of evolution. Please

Science says we evolved from monkeys. It says God doesn't exist.
So do you admit that science is wrong at least in some part?

Armour of God · May 16, 2026

Grailhunter said:
Well some believe evolution was all about surviving mutations.
I believe the changes were God driven

So your saying that changes is animal species was driven by God.
Not by random selection as science says?
Because if so that not what the theory of evolution says. And is closer to what I believe

Grailhunter · May 16, 2026

Armour of God said:
Because science says we evolved from monkeys. It says God doesn't exist.
So do you admit that science is wrong at least in some part?

Well my background in Quantum Mechanics was because I had to work with scientists involved with secret weapons and technology. So I can tell you stories. Sitting in those offices and cubicles in the evening eating pizza and drinking beer with people that were certified geniuses, I can tell you that a lot of them are Christians, or believe in God, or believe is some type higher intelligent being. Not too many atheists.

Over the last fifty years science's attitude towards God has changed. Whether if be DNA or the harmonious orbits of celestial bodies. If God was not in control the universe would look like a train wreck. GRAVITY....If gravity was just a little stronger everything would collapse....no orbit. If gravity was a little less strong, nothing would orbit just junk floating in space.

Granted they try to figure out how things happened....They cannot go into the lab and sign the register "God did it" and go home.

Grailhunter · May 16, 2026

Armour of God said:
So your saying that changes is animal species was driven by God.
Not by random selection as science says?
Because if so that not what the theory of evolution says. And is closer to what I believe

Evolutionists is a unique science. I agree a lot of them are atheists, but not all. There are several scientific disciplines involved with evolution. If you consider them all you have to include DNA. If something changes then the DNA has to change. DNA is a biological computer program....so then the question is....who is programming it.

Armour of God · May 16, 2026

Grailhunter said:
Over the last fifty years science's attitude towards God has changed. Whether if be DNA or the harmonious orbits of celestial bodies. If God was not in control the universe would look like a train wreck. GRAVITY....If gravity was just a little stronger everything would collapse....no orbit. If gravity was a little less strong, nothing would orbit just junk floating in space.

True, I think they call that the "fine tuning" argument.

Grailhunter said:
Evolutionists is a unique science. I agree a lot of them are atheists, but not all. There are several scientific disciplines involved with evolution. If you consider them all you have to include DNA. If something changes then the DNA has to change. DNA is a biological computer program....so then the question is....who is programming it

I think we actually agree with eachother more than we realised.

We both agree that any kind of evolution happens due to God and not by random materialistic processes.
Would you agree with that?

Armour of God · May 16, 2026

@Grailhunter

I think some confusion arises when talking about evolution. It should really be defined at the start of any conversation about this.

I'm not disputing that evolution happens.

I'm disputing the "theory of evolution" and the two main claims that it makes

1. That all life evolved from and single common ancestor, from one cell, through processes that are random and materialistic.

2. That species evolve from other species via the materialistic process of random mutation.

Those two claims are what I'm arguing against.

But our discussion has been fruitful and I appreciate it

God bless

Grailhunter · May 16, 2026

Armour of God said:
@Grailhunter

I think some confusion arises when talking about evolution. It should really be defined at the start of any conversation about this.

I'm not disputing that evolution happens.

I'm disputing the "theory of evolution" and the two main claims that it makes

1. That all life evolved from and single common ancestor, from one cell, through processes that are random and materialistic.

2. That species evolve from other species via the materialistic process of random mutation.

Those two claims are what I'm arguing against.

But our discussion has been fruitful and I appreciate it

God bless

As well you should.
The concept of theory or speculation is not a bad thing as long as it remains in that column.
Again we know that God is real so all of reality has to include God.

The Barbarian · May 18, 2026

Armour of God said:
My point was that teaching the theory of evolution as infallible, pulls people away from God,

It's always a surprise, no matter how many times I see it, to find that creationists think scientists says that theories are "infallible." Science teachers show students that evolutionary theory is the best current explanation for the evidence. But they also teach that theories (like evolutionary theory) are modified over time to make them more accurate or even abandoned entirely when better theories are found.

Armour of God said:
And that they should listen to the other side of the argument, the intelligent design side.

That's a religious belief. And for a Christian, God is the Creator, not some little "designer." He didn't design turtles, for example; He created the world such that living things, including turtles, would be brought forth by nature. That's what He says in Genesis.

The Barbarian · May 18, 2026

Armour of God said:
@Grailhunter

I think some confusion arises when talking about evolution. It should really be defined at the start of any conversation about this.

I'm not disputing that evolution happens.

I'm disputing the "theory of evolution" and the two main claims that it makes

1. That all life evolved from and single common ancestor, from one cell, through processes that are random and materialistic.

Two errors there:

First, genetics, not evolutionary theory, says that all life came from a common ancestor. As you learned, even Darwin that that God might have made a number of original forms.

Second, Darwin's great discovery was that it wasn't random. Of course, processes are not sentient things, so they are unable to be "materialistic." But God says that life was produced by previously-created material.

Armour of God said:
2. That species evolve from other species via the materialistic process of random mutation.

That's also an error. Species, as even many creationists now admit, evolve from other species. Some, like John Woodmorappe in Noah's Ark: A Feasibility Study, acknowledged that it was by natural selection. And natural selection is the antithesis of randomness.

The Barbarian · May 18, 2026

Grailhunter said:
LOL The scriptures do not say the earth is flat.....LOL
Why did the Jews and Christians believe that the world was flat and the sun and moon and stars moved around it? Why did they believe the world was on a fixed foundation? And why did sailors worry about sailing off the end of the world?

Initially, Jews accepted the usual Mesopotamian idea of the world as flat. It had nothing to do with God's message to us, so it didn't matter. Later, before Christ was born, they knew better. It caused them no great concern, because they were focused on what God was actually telling us, not details of geography.

Sailors were the first to figure out the Earth was not flat. A few hundred years before Jesus was born, Eratosthenes of Alexandria actually figured out a way to make an accurate measure of the Earth's circumference. No one told Columbus that the Earth was flat. What his critics told him was that his reckoning of the size of the Earth was much less than it actually is. They were right and he was wrong. If there was no America, he would have died out there. Fortunately for him, America was there. That's why he thought he was in the East Indies; according to his figures, that's where it should have been.

The Barbarian · May 18, 2026

Grailhunter said:
The concept of theory or speculation is not a bad thing as long as it remains in that column.

Those are two very different things. Speculation is unsupported ideas. Hypotheses are speculations that have some support in existing knowledge. Theories are hypotheses whose testable claims have been repeatedly verified by subsequent evidence.

Grailhunter · May 18, 2026

The Barbarian said:
Initially, Jews accepted the usual Mesopotamian idea of the world as flat. It had nothing to do with God's message to us, so it didn't matter. Later, before Christ was born, they knew better. It caused them no great concern, because they were focused on what God was actually telling us, not details of geography.

Sailors were the first to figure out the Earth was not flat. A few hundred years before Jesus was born, Eratosthenes of Alexandria actually figured out a way to make an accurate measure of the Earth's circumference. No one told Columbus that the Earth was flat. What his critics told him was that his reckoning of the size of the Earth was much less than it actually is. They were right and he was wrong. If there was no America, he would have died out there. Fortunately for him, America was there. That's why he thought he was in the East Indies; according to his figures, that's where it should have been.

The scriptures strictly preached that the world was the shape of a cracker on a foundation.
Who thought what? Galalio was nearly crucified for revealing the fact that the world was not flat and the universe did not revolve around.....Galileo 1564-1642

Medieval European Maps: During the Middle Ages, maps like the Mappa Mundi depicted a flat Earth, but knowledge of a spherical Earth persisted among scholars.
Renaissance Advances: The 15th century saw a revival of interest in classical knowledge, leading to more accurate representations of the globe.
Mercator Projection: In 1569, Gerardus Mercator developed a cylindrical map projection that allowed for more accurate navigation, reflecting the globe's curvature.

The Barbarian · May 18, 2026

Grailhunter said:
The scriptures strictly preached that the world was the shape of a cracker on a foundation.
Who thought what? Galalio was nearly crucified for revealing the fact that the world was not flat and the universe did not revolve around.....Galileo 1564-1642

He was brought up on suspicion of heresy for his claim that the Earth went around the Sun, when current astronomical belief was that the Sun went around the Earth. By his time, no scientist claimed that the Earth was flat. The big deal was that scripture says the Earth will not be moved, but the data clearly showed that it moves.

https://www.discovermagazine.com/aristotle-discovered-the-world-is-round-one-of-the-first-important-scientific-theories-48040

Eight objections to evolution

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