DOES JESUS HAVE IMMORTALITY OR NOT?

Doug · Feb 21, 2026

Someone said 1 Timothy 6:14-16 is saying in verses 15 and 16 that both of these verses are about God the Father and not Christ, is this based on newer translations?

I will give the KJV first then the NIV to compare and comment on:

The KJV.
[1 Timothy 6:14 KJV] "That thou keep [this] commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:"..........This clearly states who he is talking about. He is talking about Christ Jesus
[1 Timothy 6:15 KJV] "Which in his times he shall shew, [who is] the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;"..............Christ who is "the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords" will appear in his time.
[1 Timothy 6:16 KJV] "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom [be] honour and power everlasting. Amen."...............WHO only is Christ. Christ has immortality.

The NIV.
[1 Timothy 6:14 NIV] "to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,"
[1 Timothy 6:15 NIV] "which God will bring about in his own time--God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords,"...........this translation says "which God" which from the text does not appear in the lexicon for the NIV. This is a blatant corruption of the Word; It doesn't take a scholar to recognize or expose this. "which God" is an unsubstantiated insertion into this verse.
Both the KJV and the NIV say He is king of Kings. The King of Kings can be identified through these verses:
[John 1:29 KJV] "The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."..............John Identifies Jesus as the Lamb, which taketh away the sin of the world...................[Revelation 5:6 KJV] "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth."
[Revelation 5:5 KJV] "And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof."
[Revelation 5:6 KJV] "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth."
[Revelation 5:7 KJV] "And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.".............These verses all point to Christ Jesus as being the slain Lamb. If Jesus is the lamb, then it is He who is King of Kings, as affirmed by this next verse; the Lamb is called the King of Kings...........[Revelation 17:14 KJV] "These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him [are] called, and chosen, and faithful.".......Jesus is called the King of Kings.

Jesus ruling the nations with a rod of iron identifies him as King of Kings:
[Revelation 12:5 KJV] "And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and [to] his throne."..........This man child was to rule the nations with a rod of iron..........[Revelation 19:15 KJV] "And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God."
[Revelation 19:16 KJV] "And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."......................The man child seen in Revelation 12:5 is said to rule with a rod of iron; from these verses (Revelation 19:15-16), it can be seen that Jesus will rule the nations with a rod of iron. The one who rules with a rod of iron is called King of Kings, Jesus rules with a rod of iron, and therefore is King of Kings...........[Psalm 2:7 KJV] "I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee."
[Psalm 2:8 KJV] "Ask of me, and I shall give [thee] the heathen [for] thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth [for] thy possession."
[Psalm 2:9 KJV] "Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel."....................The begotten Son is the Lord Jesus Christ who will break the heathen nations with a rod of iron. It is the Son of God, Christ Jesus, who rules with a rod of iron and is King of Kings.
[1 Timothy 6:16 NIV] "who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.".................The King of Kings is the Lord Jesus Christ, and therefore is the one who has immortality.

This is the most pernicious corruption of scripture I have seen. The immortality and diety of Christ had to be removed by the newer Bible translators.

Lambano · Feb 23, 2026

Doug said:
This is the most pernicious corruption of scripture I have seen. The immortality and diety of Christ had to be removed by the newer Bible translators

The context of 1 Timothy 6:14-16 should also include verse 13:

13 I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who testified the good confession before Pontius Pilate, 14 that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which He will reveal at the proper time—He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.

Who is the "He" referred to in verse 15? Referring back to verse 13, it could be either God or Christ Jesus. Verse 16 says the referent is the One whom no no man has seen or can see. Consistent with Paul's Jewish understanding, this MUST refer to God, and obviously Jesus was seen here on earth by Pontius Pilate (v13 again), among others. So, the NIV translators were just (correctly!) disambiguating the pronoun reference for the reader. My only complaint is that they should have footnoted it.

The verse thus says nothing confirming or denying Christ Jesus's deity or immortality.

Lambano · Feb 23, 2026

Doug said:
[1 Timothy 6:13 KJV] "I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and [before] Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;"......It is saying I give thee charge before God and before Christ.........it isnt either its both

Of course, but the "He" in verse 15 is singular, so it can't refer to both.

Lambano · Feb 24, 2026

Doug said:
v15 says he (Jesus) because it is only referring to his appearing in verse 14

No, in verse 15a, "He" who "shews" (reveals) Jesus in his appearing "in His own kairois" also has to refer back to God. The fact that Paul uses kairos instead of kronos is significant, because kairos biblically refers to the times and seasons that God sets. And again, the "He who no man has seen or can see" at the end of verse 16 MUST refer to God. It CANNOT refer to Christ Jesus. So, if Paul is not changing pronoun referents in mid-sentence (a poor practice in either Greek or English), the whole chain from verses 15-16 HAS to refer to God.

Lambano · Mar 2, 2026

Thinking about it some more....

The word translated "immortality", ἀθανασία ("athanasia") comes from the words "a", a negation, and "thanatos", meaning death. Without Death. Never Dying.

But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. (Philippians 2:7-8)

In the form the Lord Jesus Christ willingly took, He DID experience death. To deny this is to deny the atonement, and to commit the docetic heresy condemned by John in 2 John 1:7:

For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. (2 John 1:7)

This of course says nothing about the Son's state prior to the Incarnation or His current post-Resurrection state. So, it is not a Christological heresy to say that God (the Father) alone has immortality.

KUWN · May 22, 2026

Lambano said:
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. (2 John 1:7)

This of course says nothing about the Son's state prior to the Incarnation or His current post-Resurrection state. So, it is not a Christological heresy to say that God (the Father) alone has immortality.

It would be heresy if you are saying that God (the Father) alone has immortality.

Anchorite · May 22, 2026

KUWN said:
It would be heresy if you are saying that God (the Father) alone has immortality.

God the Father alone has immortality or deathlessness, for He has never died. He also has never been seen. Jesus died and was seen.

[1 Timothy 6:16 KJV] "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom [be] honour and power everlasting. Amen."

Lambano · May 22, 2026

KUWN said:
It would be heresy if you are saying that God (the Father) alone has immortality.

That's exactly what Paul is saying.

You wouldn't be the first to accuse Paul of heresy.

KUWN · May 23, 2026

Lambano said:
That's exactly what Paul is saying.

You wouldn't be the first to accuse Paul of heresy.

The key to this passage is the word AND.

God alone has immortality AND lives in unapproachable light. This is a reference to God the Father, who brings about the appearing of Jesus

You might want to do a study on "immortality." It also has the usage of not subject to death.

Lambano · May 23, 2026

KUWN said:
The key to this passage is the word AND.

God alone has immortality AND lives in unapproachable light. This is a reference to God the Father, who brings about the appearing of Jesus

You might want to do a study on "immortality." It also has the usage of not subject to death.

So, you're agreeing with me that that God (the Father) alone has ἀθανασία? Or is the argument that the term monos ("alone") applies to the whole set of characteristics listed {undying, lives in approachable light, has never been seen, cannot be seen}, and other entities may have some subset of those characteristics but not all of them?

KUWN · May 24, 2026

Lambano said:
So, you're agreeing with me that that God (the Father) alone has ἀθανασία? Or is the argument that the term monos ("alone") applies to the whole set of characteristics listed {undying, lives in approachable light, has never been seen, cannot be seen}, and other entities may have some subset of those characteristics but not all of them?

So I will know how to respond, do you disagree with these statements below, some or all, taken from the Internet

The context is about the Father and the Son right now. The Father is not subject to death (immortal)

The Father is not subject to death and lives in unapproachable lights. The Son is subject to death

the only Source of immortality, the One who lives in unapproachable lights

No man has seen God in his full Shekinah glory (unapproachable lights)

The idea is to possess/have in the sense of having as one’s own (not derivative)

in His own essence, he cannot be seen. Moses was one of the closest that a human got, he only saw the glory of Christ's back

Vine writes that God is "Unapproachable in the essence of His being and the rights of His majesty

The Father and the Son are one (in essence, not in Person) The "one" is neuter, not masculine.

What attributes that are said to belong to "God" the Father or Son or Holy Spirit, is possessed by each Member.

(ALONE has the definite article) v16: the only One [i.e., God the Father] having immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen nor can see, to whom be honor and eternal power. Amen.

The notion that this subject "nobody can see" does not exclude Jesus as a referent, even though Jesus was seen in His earthly sojourn, because Paul distinguishes the physically tangible Christ from the invisibly and innately perceived Christ (2 Cor 5:16)

the Aramaic CHCoG version:
Now to the King of eternity, to Him who is indestructible and invisible, the One God, be honor and glory for eternities of eternity. Amen. 1 Timothy 1:17

The Father is immortal of himself, and by his own nature/essence.

* If you have seen me you have seen the Father, GJohn 14:8, 9
* I and the Father are one (in essence) GJohn 10:30
* Jesus is the visible manifestation of the Godhead (not the Father or Holy Spirit), in this physical existence

Ronald Nolette · May 26, 2026

Doug said:
Someone said 1 Timothy 6:14-16 is saying in verses 15 and 16 that both of these verses are about God the Father and not Christ, is this based on newer translations?

I will give the KJV first then the NIV to compare and comment on:

The KJV.
[1 Timothy 6:14 KJV] "That thou keep [this] commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:"..........This clearly states who he is talking about. He is talking about Christ Jesus
[1 Timothy 6:15 KJV] "Which in his times he shall shew, [who is] the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;"..............Christ who is "the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords" will appear in his time.
[1 Timothy 6:16 KJV] "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom [be] honour and power everlasting. Amen."...............WHO only is Christ. Christ has immortality.

The NIV.
[1 Timothy 6:14 NIV] "to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,"
[1 Timothy 6:15 NIV] "which God will bring about in his own time--God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords,"...........this translation says "which God" which from the text does not appear in the lexicon for the NIV. This is a blatant corruption of the Word; It doesn't take a scholar to recognize or expose this. "which God" is an unsubstantiated insertion into this verse.
Both the KJV and the NIV say He is king of Kings. The King of Kings can be identified through these verses:
[John 1:29 KJV] "The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."..............John Identifies Jesus as the Lamb, which taketh away the sin of the world...................[Revelation 5:6 KJV] "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth."
[Revelation 5:5 KJV] "And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof."
[Revelation 5:6 KJV] "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth."
[Revelation 5:7 KJV] "And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.".............These verses all point to Christ Jesus as being the slain Lamb. If Jesus is the lamb, then it is He who is King of Kings, as affirmed by this next verse; the Lamb is called the King of Kings...........[Revelation 17:14 KJV] "These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him [are] called, and chosen, and faithful.".......Jesus is called the King of Kings.

Jesus ruling the nations with a rod of iron identifies him as King of Kings:
[Revelation 12:5 KJV] "And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and [to] his throne."..........This man child was to rule the nations with a rod of iron..........[Revelation 19:15 KJV] "And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God."
[Revelation 19:16 KJV] "And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."......................The man child seen in Revelation 12:5 is said to rule with a rod of iron; from these verses (Revelation 19:15-16), it can be seen that Jesus will rule the nations with a rod of iron. The one who rules with a rod of iron is called King of Kings, Jesus rules with a rod of iron, and therefore is King of Kings...........[Psalm 2:7 KJV] "I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee."
[Psalm 2:8 KJV] "Ask of me, and I shall give [thee] the heathen [for] thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth [for] thy possession."
[Psalm 2:9 KJV] "Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel."....................The begotten Son is the Lord Jesus Christ who will break the heathen nations with a rod of iron. It is the Son of God, Christ Jesus, who rules with a rod of iron and is King of Kings.
[1 Timothy 6:16 NIV] "who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.".................The King of Kings is the Lord Jesus Christ, and therefore is the one who has immortality.

This is the most pernicious corruption of scripture I have seen. The immortality and diety of Christ had to be removed by the newer Bible translators.

Sorry to have to correct you again Doug, but your blind and unenlightened hatred of the NIV has made you very myopic.

Jesus has been seen by men since HIs ascension, so 1 Tim. 6:16 cannot directly refer to Jesus. Now as a triune god it can refer to all or some of the three.

YOu also need to remember that Jesus points us to teh Father and that after the millewnnial kingdom, Jesus returns the kingdom back to HIs Father and submits HImelf under His father.

1 Cor. 15:
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Search

Search

DOES JESUS HAVE IMMORTALITY OR NOT?

Doug

Well-Known Member

Lambano

Well-Known Member

Lambano

Well-Known Member

Lambano

Well-Known Member

Lambano

Well-Known Member

KUWN

Well-Known Member

Anchorite

Well-Known Member

Lambano

Well-Known Member

KUWN

Well-Known Member

Lambano

Well-Known Member

KUWN

Well-Known Member

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member

Similar threads