Why did Jesus pray to himself?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Wrangler

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
20,786
9,008
113
57
Shining City on a Hill
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Like @MatthewG, I just go by what Scripture actually teaches. Every Gospel teaches the same thing - and only this thing about who Jesus is. All the Gospels proclaim Jesus is God’s Anointed. None teach Jesus is YHWH incarnate.
  • Matthew 1:1 (VOICE) This is the family history, the genealogy, of Jesus the Anointed, the coming King.
  • Mark 1:1 (VOICE). This is the beginning of the good news of Jesus, the Anointed One, the Liberating King, the Son of God.
  • Luke 1:4 I want you to know that you can fully rely on the things you have been taught about Jesus, God’s Anointed One.
  • John 20:31 (VOICE). These accounts are recorded so that you, too, might believe that Jesus is the Anointed, the Liberating King, the Son of God, because believing grants you the life He came to share.
I suggest you read Deuteronomy 18:15-18 to better understand who this Anointed One is in what Philip referred to when he found Nathanael and said to him, “We have found the one who Moses wrote about in the Law, and so did the prophets: Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.” John 1:45.
I’m surprised you didn’t acknowledge this post @PS95. The Gospels teach plainly who Jesus is.

Did you read Deuteronomy in light of John 1:45?
 

NayborBear

Active Member
Jan 21, 2020
708
236
43
73
Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
I believe you have a lot going on in your head.
You got THAT right "Slim n Shady!" :Laughingoutloud: (just kiddin' ya there)
Certainly reading a lot between the lines.
Even in the "canonized" Bible IS (how can I say) "PREGNANT" with what there is to be "REVEALED!"
Exploring ideas.
Through MUCH and MANY "testings of the spirits?" where it "feels" there are as many "slippery slopes" going uphill? As WELL as "downhill?" (because there are!)
One starts to "grasp" onto, as well as understand why our brains are only 7% in use!
Meaning There's a LOT TO "explore!"
Yet the "rewards" given? (very MUCH like the parable of the talents) are so MUCH worth "THE INVESTINGS!"
John 14:2
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Nothing wrong with that.
Thank YOU for your understanding!
May GOD "Bless and Keep" you!
And TAKE you a half hour before the devil realizes you died! :Laughingoutloud::jest:
As you can probably tell?
GOD DOES have (sometimes?) A VERY Humorous side!
"Trek ON Pilgrim!"
"Trek ON!"

Many "a mystery" to unravel.
MANY!
 

Grailhunter

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2019
14,231
6,186
113
69
FARMINGTON
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
You got THAT right "Slim n Shady!" :Laughingoutloud: (just kiddin' ya there)

Even in the "canonized" Bible IS (how can I say) "PREGNANT" with what there is to be "REVEALED!"

Through MUCH and MANY "testings of the spirits?" where it "feels" there are as many "slippery slopes" going uphill? As WELL as "downhill?" (because there are!)
One starts to "grasp" onto, as well as understand why our brains are only 7% in use!
Meaning There's a LOT TO "explore!"
Yet the "rewards" given? (very MUCH like the parable of the talents) are so MUCH worth "THE INVESTINGS!"
John 14:2
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Thank YOU for your understanding!
May GOD "Bless and Keep" you!
And TAKE you a half hour before the devil realizes you died! :Laughingoutloud::jest:
As you can probably tell?
GOD DOES have (sometimes?) A VERY Humorous side!
"Trek ON Pilgrim!"
"Trek ON!"

Many "a mystery" to unravel.
MANY!

For this reason I say to you, her sins, which are many, have been forgiven, for she loved much; but he who is forgiven little, loves little.
 

Hillsage

Well-Known Member
Feb 20, 2023
706
484
63
77
Western Kansas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
It's all very interesting. Thank you
Your response is also very interesting.....and yet, NOT really. But mine may just be too much information.
So, maybe I need to change things up a bit. Can you answer two simple questions?

Do you believe there are two holy spirits in the bible when talking about "God" and the spirit in "Jesus the Christ (christ IMO)"?

What do you believe the "one baptism" of Eph 4 refers to?

LUK 12:50* But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

I simply have to also ask; are you a prayer language talking believer (eg. Pentecostal, Charismatic)?
 

PS95

Well-Known Member
Jun 16, 2024
2,732
1,842
113
Eastern Shore
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I’m surprised you didn’t acknowledge this post @PS95. The Gospels teach plainly who Jesus is.

Did you read Deuteronomy in light of John 1:45?
I see, Wrangler- you refuse to answer my basic questions-- and expect to convince me that Jesus was merely a prophet like Moses and that He told lies. I can't take a single thing you say seriously. Don't you know that? Yet, you repeatedly post to me.
Your JW family has clearly screwed with your mind. You would be shunned if you stood up for Christ. You do know that they still see you as a potential convert which is THE only reason you are not shunned. DO YOU REALIZE THAT?

and, no I am not starting a thread just for you. this thread is enough of this nonsense.
 

PS95

Well-Known Member
Jun 16, 2024
2,732
1,842
113
Eastern Shore
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Your response is also very interesting.....and yet, NOT really. But mine may just be too much information.
So, maybe I need to change things up a bit. Can you answer two simple questions?

Do you believe there are two holy spirits in the bible when talking about "God" and the spirit in "Jesus the Christ (christ IMO)"?

What do you believe the "one baptism" of Eph 4 refers to?

LUK 12:50* But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

I simply have to also ask; are you a prayer language talking believer (eg. Pentecostal, Charismatic)?
. As to your 2 questions-

Q1 Do I believe there are 2 Holy Spirits?

A1-- No I don't. Scripture teaches us that God is one & the Holy Spirit is of God ( when Ananias and Saphira lied- they lied to the Holy Spirit - God- Acts). The Spirit of Christ is used interchangeable with the Spirit of God. Scripture says "God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself"
I believe there is one faith, one baptism, One hope, One Spirit, One God, one Lord, one flock, one shepherd- etc- don't you?

Ephesians 4-5 4There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.
+John 10:16

I believe as the scriptures teach that God lives in us/Christ lives in us/HS lives in us. Yet, this is not 3 different Spirits in us, but is of God .
---------
Q2 What do you believe the "one baptism" of Eph 4 refers to?
Luke 12:50* But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

A2- The one baptism in Ephesians is our baptism into Christ.
I think R0 6:1-4 explains it well-


1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

3. I am not pentecostal or charismatic if you mean by a denomination, but I do not discount any gifts nor forbid tongues, but should be used properly.
 

Wrangler

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
20,786
9,008
113
57
Shining City on a Hill
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
I see, Wrangler- you refuse to answer my basic questions

Untrue. I did answer your basic question of who Jesus is. I didn’t take the time to address various follow up questions out of concern for hijacking the thread.

expect to convince me that Jesus was merely a prophet like Moses
I take that you did, in fact, read Deuteronomy 18:15-18 in light of John 1:45.

Sad appeal to only, merely and just AS IF edifies.
  • Trump is an American
  • Trump is just an American
  • Trump is merely an American
  • Trump is only an American
Sometimes, I almost don’t sense hostility in your posts. Keep up the good work.
 

PS95

Well-Known Member
Jun 16, 2024
2,732
1,842
113
Eastern Shore
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Untrue. I did answer your basic question of who Jesus is. I didn’t take the time to address various follow up questions out of concern for hijacking the thread.


I take that you did, in fact, read Deuteronomy 18:15-18 in light of John 1:45.

Sad appeal to only, merely and just AS IF edifies.
  • Trump is an American
  • Trump is just an American
  • Trump is merely an American
  • Trump is only an American
Sometimes, I almost don’t sense hostility in your posts. Keep up the good work.
Do you own a mirror? lol my goodness you are something. If you are afraid to answer- fine. I already know your answers anyway.
That post was for the rest here.
Sure- I read your verses just for you- Nothing I hadn't already known. How on earth that means something big to you is for only you to entertain.
those questions were for the benefit of others here to help them understand what they are dealing with when speaking to you. I don't play nice with those who tag themselves as Christians who are deceivers. You sir, are a coward.

Our time is up. Wakeupx
 

TitusTwoWife

Encounter Team
Staff member
Encounter Team
Apr 26, 2026
292
426
63
31
North Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Female
@Wrangler
@PS95

I'm sorry to see you two at odds since I know both of you have demonstrated each of your own admirable qualities. Please consider forgiving each other, burying the hatchet and showing grace. Sometimes debates get heated. It happens. But were all called to teach patiently and gently.

2 Timothy 2:24
King James Version
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hillsage and PS95

Linda

New Member
Sep 9, 2025
29
9
3
76
Ladera Ranch Ca
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
But God is Jesus and Jesus is God. They are one-in-the-same. or so I'm told. Jesus and the Holy Spirit are both just God putting on a different outfit, so to speak. All three have eternally existed because, after all, all three are actually God. At least this is what most Christians teach.

So my question again is, why did God pray to himself?
Think of it as a heirachy ok, like a father is
Head over the son, and the father receives
The rightful respect of the son, not because
The father is better or greater, but there is
A bloodline so to speak in how God created
The family to have.

God has headship over Jesus which is why
We also see in scripture where Jesus says,
“ dont call me good, only the Father is Perfect”
Since Jesus was still the Son, He hadnt
Attained His Godship title whereby He sits next to the Father since He rose again to be in Glory as one, yet the Father is still the Father and
The Son always the son.

Jesus also acknowledged to those who asked Him as to when will the second coming
Occur and He said only God knows that, so
Not even the Son.

When Jesus prayed to His Father, we see
That He had not been crucified yet, so yes
He prayed to God not Himself, as the best
Reasons we have to partially understand that,
Is, Christ is both human and divine, and until
He is crucified He will not be in His real divinity
As part of the Godhead.

Lastly, Mary approached Jesus to say
They ran out of wine, and Jesus replied,
“ i have not yet descended to my Father”,
Which seemed as if Jesus did not wish
To use His divinity on the earth that would
Take from His mission as being human
And to suffer as a human and die for the
Sins of the world, therefore, He none the
Less obliged Marys request in making
More wine for the guests.

I hope this helps you to understand
Jesus role as human and divine,
And why He wasnt praying to Himself
At all, since God will always be the Father,
And their oneness is in their being, only,
Since their title will always remain, Father,
Son and Holy Spirit…
 

Hillsage

Well-Known Member
Feb 20, 2023
706
484
63
77
Western Kansas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
. As to your 2 questions-

Q1 Do I believe there are 2 Holy Spirits?

A1-- No I don't. Scripture teaches us that God is one & the Holy Spirit is of God
Then why did Jesus say he "commend my spirit" to the Father on the cross? Why not say; OUR spirit or YOUR spirit or GOD'S spirit?

LUK 23:46* And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.


( when Ananias and Saphira lied- they lied to the Holy Spirit - God- Acts).
Why didn't Peter just say "you lied to GOD" then? Or GOD's spirit? Why did Peter specifically say "the holy spirit"?

The Spirit of Christ is used interchangeable with the Spirit of God. Scripture says "God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself"
PSA 82:6 I have said, Ye are Gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
So do "ALL" of 'them' in the OT, have the "Spirit of Christ" or the "Spirit of God" in them?

Along with the pharisees Jesus called Gods?

JOH 10:35* If he called them gods to whom the word of God came (and scripture cannot be broken),

Has "the word of God came" to you? Are you God?
I believe there is one faith, one baptism, One hope, One Spirit, One God, one Lord, one flock, one shepherd- etc- don't you?
No, I don't believe exactly like you. That's why we're dialoguing. :Broadly:

Which "one faith" saved you? "faith IN Christ" or "faith OF Christ"

GAL 2:16* Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ,

PHI 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:




Ephesians 4-5 4There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.
+John 10:16

I believe as the scriptures teach that God lives in us/Christ lives in us/HS lives in us. Yet, this is not 3 different Spirits in us, but is of God .
---------
Q2 What do you believe the "one baptism" of Eph 4 refers to?
Luke 12:50* But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

A2- The one baptism in Ephesians is our baptism into Christ.
I think R0 6:1-4 explains it well-


1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Which "one baptism" INTO JESUS CHRIST" is Romans talking about? WHEN and HOW did you experience that "one baptism."

3. I am not pentecostal or charismatic if you mean by a denomination, but I do not discount any gifts nor forbid tongues, but should be used properly.
I thought I was being specific, as to "the word of your testimony." I'm not pentecostal or charismatic by denomination either, but I DO SPEAK AND PRAY in unknown tongues.....DO YOU?
 
Last edited:

PS95

Well-Known Member
Jun 16, 2024
2,732
1,842
113
Eastern Shore
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@Wrangler
@PS95

I'm sorry to see you two at odds since I know both of you have demonstrated each of your own admirable qualities. Please consider forgiving each other, burying the hatchet and showing grace. Sometimes debates get heated. It happens. But were all called to teach patiently and gently.

2 Timothy 2:24
King James Version
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
I've forgiven you also @Wrangler.
Yes, she is a treasure.
 

Hillsage

Well-Known Member
Feb 20, 2023
706
484
63
77
Western Kansas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Not sure what happened to @PS95 Kind of disappeared. So I'll just finish dealing with all the rest of his favorite verses which IMO, don't disprove that there are two holy spirits in scripture. :Broadly:

1PE 3:15 but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence; 16 and keep a good conscience so that in the thing in which you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ will be put to shame.


-----
Romans 8
9However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 10If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
-------------
Pretty simple answer IMO: "spirit of god" and "spirit of christ" are two different spirits. One 'spirit' being of the godhead (Singular) and one 'spirit' being the christos/anointed spirit; which was in Jesus...from his birth.

And in this Roman's verse you quote, just which "spirit" raised Jesus body from the dead? IMO, it was not; 'the holy spirit of god'. It was the same spirit which Jesus 'commended to his father's hands' when he said "my spirit". That's the same 'christos/anointed spirit' that, when it left, caused the body of Jesus died. And his death, that same 'spirit of christ 'left the dead body and soul of Jesus in the tomb, It then went and preached to the spirits which disobeyed in the days of Noah. When 'that same anointed spirit returned the body of Jesus was back together in spirit, soul and body.

1PE 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit 19 in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison,


1 Cor 3:16
16Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.
--------------
Like others here, you probably don't know that your body isn't 'the body' being talked about in this verse. If you are a believer your body is not 'the temple of the holy spirit of god'. Believer's bodies are simply the 'many membered living stones' which make up the "temple (singular) for the holy spirit of god, in this verse you quote.

1PE 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

We (plural) are the house/temple (singular) made of many "living stones" (body of christ members) including Jesus as the "chief cornerstone" (Eph 2:20). And Jesus, as well as us, ALL true believers, have a 'holy christos/anointed spirit' in us....(All whose spirit is born anew when anointed, fulfill 1Cor 3:16 above). He and we corporately are 'the living temple' for the holy spirit of god to dwell in.

EPH 2:19 ...Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22* In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the spirit.


Gal 4:6
And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!”
Right, the spirit of christ in Jesus' body was 'the SON of God' just like the holy spirit of christ 'in our hearts' are also "crying out abba father". Our born again inchristed spirit wasn't born in your "heart". According to Jesus your spirit was conceived from 'the holy spirit of god', in your "belly".

JOH 7:38* He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Those 'living words'/tongues, go from from your spirit to your heart, first. For "out of the heart the mouth speaks" after. IF you have received that baptism of holy spirit power of god upon your spirit. IMO, concerning most of the church???? I believe NADA.


IOW the 'last' baptism FROM 'the holy spirit of god' couldn't happen to those who could ONLY receive their born again 'inchristed spirit from Jesus' as the savior of their spirits after his crucifixion. They had to wait until Pentecost for their 'born again inchristed spirits' to release a their 'spiritual tongue words'. Those words came from their spirit in their belly, on their way to their hearts (not from their heads/brains/souls) before being spoken out of their mouths.

I am a 'spiritual tongue' speaking Christian. That is my testimony. And I believe we are called to give an account for 'our testimony', as my opening verse declares;

make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence; 16 and keep a good conscience so that in the thing in which you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ


@PS95 last 4 verses in following post
 

Hillsage

Well-Known Member
Feb 20, 2023
706
484
63
77
Western Kansas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
----------------

2 Cor 13:5
Examine yourselves as to whether you are IN the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is IN you?—unless indeed you are disqualified.
--------------------
Did you understand my last post's challenge to you, to see if you knew the difference between being saved by "the faith IN Jesus" vs "the faith OF Jesus"? If you didn't have the understanding of that point, then you probably don't know the difference in this verse you've quoted either. Do you know the difference between having "christ in you" and "you in christ". They both figure into being "disqualified" or 'qualified' in the faith." "Christ in you", that is.

John 14:23
Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
Where is that home? Do you believe in "mansions" in the wild blue yonder of heaven "up there" somewhere? That's what most in the nominal church believe. But first what's the Gr. word for "home" in this verse you quoted above? It is MONE

3438 mone: a staying, i.e. residence (the act or the place)

It is also translated as "mansions and rooms" in vs 2. And MONE is only in NT 2X. Verse 2 and 23.
Now we all know which definitions the church most loves. "mansions" right. But how does Jesus describe where these "mansions" and "rooms" are? US, we are the mone where if we are in Christ and Christ is in us, They both come to us, here and now (

So are literal pearly gates and streets of gold coming to the mind? I hope not, because most of the "church" thinks that. But what does the scripture say?

----------
John 14:16
“I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
And that helper was the same holy...anointed/christos spirit that helped Jesus, to walk into the fullness of the character FRUIT of the character of God. Love, joy, peace, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control The christos/anointing upon the spirit in Jesus, led Him into that FRUIT OF THE means from the SPIRIT walk. He 'cultivated' that spiritual fruit as He was tried, tested and tempted just like we "his brethren" would be. The church today PRAYS to have more fruit. Those prayers are not answered with fruit He passed that test and tells us if we have that same spirit in us we "can do EVERY "WORK" THING he did "AND MORE". The nominal church of today can not even imagine walking in sinlessness and that much power.

-----------------------
1 Cor 6:19
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?
---------------
If we accept all that scripture says- the Spirit of God is God and His Son and yet another helper-- who comes to live in us.
If that definable? Not really but the trinity is very close. It's hard to define God.

Hard to define God in this verse, you say?

First we may need a grammar lesson; In the KJV YE and YOU are plural. THEE and THOU are singular.
First we may need a grammar lesson; :contemplate: In the KJV YE and YOU are plural. THEE and THOU are singular. So first read the verse below correctly in red the KJV. Then read the supralinear (above the red line) words, which are in black. which how the KJV would have to be written to agree with what you think it is saying,

_____________knowest thou______thy_________________________________________thou _____thou hast
1CO 6:19* What? know YE not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and
thou_____thine
ye
are not your own?

______thou______________________________________thine___________thine
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

"The body"
1CO 6:19 is speaking of, is the many membered body of christ which is singular, but represents a 'collective noun'.

Your spirit is God's because His Holy Spirit birthed your first spirit and then re-birthed it when it was "born again". Your first birth spirit came without a price. Your second spirit cost the body life of His son Jesus. You were then 'bought with the price' of Jesus' body, not His holy spirit, or God's Holy Spirit.

1CO 6:20 you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

And we glorify God, with the same spirit that Jesus did it with.

The Holy Spirit of God dwells IN that many membered living stones temple which is the SECOND TEMPLE.
 
Last edited:

PS95

Well-Known Member
Jun 16, 2024
2,732
1,842
113
Eastern Shore
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Did you understand my last post's challenge to you, to see if you knew the difference between being saved by "the faith IN Jesus" vs "the faith OF Jesus"? If you didn't have the understanding of that point, then you probably don't know the difference in this verse you've quoted either. Do you know the difference between having "christ in you" and "you in christ". They both figure into being "disqualified" or 'qualified' in the faith." "Christ in you", that is.


Where is that home? Do you believe in "mansions" in the wild blue yonder of heaven "up there" somewhere? That's what most in the nominal church believe. But first what's the Gr. word for "home" in this verse you quoted above? It is MONE

3438 mone: a staying, i.e. residence (the act or the place)

It is also translated as "mansions and rooms" in vs 2. And MONE is only in NT 2X. Verse 2 and 23.
Now we all know which definitions the church most loves. "mansions" right. But how does Jesus describe where these "mansions" and "rooms" are? US, we are the mone where if we are in Christ and Christ is in us, They both come to us, here and now (

So are literal pearly gates and streets of gold coming to the mind? I hope not, because most of the "church" thinks that. But what does the scripture say?


And that helper was the same holy...anointed/christos spirit that helped Jesus, to walk into the fullness of the character FRUIT of the character of God. Love, joy, peace, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control The christos/anointing upon the spirit in Jesus, led Him into that FRUIT OF THE means from the SPIRIT walk. He 'cultivated' that spiritual fruit as He was tried, tested and tempted just like we "his brethren" would be. The church today PRAYS to have more fruit. Those prayers are not answered with fruit He passed that test and tells us if we have that same spirit in us we "can do EVERY "WORK" THING he did "AND MORE". The nominal church of today can not even imagine walking in sinlessness and that much power.


Not as "hard to define", when you realize there are TWO holy spirits and TWO temples. And the KJV is the one you need to read to understand that. THEE and THOU are SINGULAR you. YE and YOU are PLURAL in the KJV. For that verse to say what you believe it does it would have to have been written;
knowest thou thine
1CO 6:19* What? know ye pl not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.



The same holy spirit is in Jesus' body and OUR bodies. Many spiritual stones build the FIRST TEMPLE.
The Holy Spirit of God dwells IN that many membered living stones SECOND TEMPLE.
Well, let me just be honest with you. I have no idea why you are trying to teach me anything. You just came out of nowhere. You seem very condescending and it's not helpful nor is it spirit filled. I was not raised in the "churches" so all of this blathering about what they teach wrong in your opinion means absolutely nothing to me.
It appears that you are yet another one with their very own religion -who enjoys bashing everyone else.
When you asked me if I was God- that was enough for me not to want to reply. There was no reason whatsoever to ask me such a thing,
I wish you well and hope that this doesn't seem too harsh. I just don't want this discussion with you. Not interested. It does not matter to me how many tongues you can speak in. That has nothing to do with anything that you've written not does it mean you can't err.
 

Hillsage

Well-Known Member
Feb 20, 2023
706
484
63
77
Western Kansas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Well, let me just be honest with you. I have no idea why you are trying to teach me anything. You just came out of nowhere. You seem very condescending and it's not helpful nor is it spirit filled. I was not raised in the "churches" so all of this blathering about what they teach wrong in your opinion means absolutely nothing to me.
As far as you are concerned I came out of nowhere. I started on Christian Forums 30+ years ago. You went to no "churches" and learned nothing from them. I went to many churches and learned to separate the grapes from the seeds and the meat from the bone. And then I left. Every denomination is a tombstone to the last move of God in the spirit. You didn't address much at all before disappearing on this thread. As for your position I don't see anyone here cheering you on in your teaching me a lesson.
It appears that you are yet another one with their very own religion -who enjoys bashing everyone else.
IMO, I am one who, at 22 was going a 100 miles an hour in the opposite direction of God. And in that 21 years I amassed a huge testimony to the devil, and have no doubt that you can't begin to compete with it. So far, no one in my 55 years ever has. And scripture says "but he who is forgiven little, loves little." I have been forgiven for a lot. And just maybe I've loved him more than you and many others and He has rewarded me for that.

When you asked me if I was God- that was enough for me not to want to reply. There was no reason whatsoever to ask me such a thing,
It was IMPLIED by your use of that scripture and anyone else who believes it like you used it. Why didn't you just refute it? This is a serious debate on these forums and if it's too tough then maybe I'm out of your league. I've taken a lot of hits from a lot of 'religious know it alls'. Such is the weakness of not talking face to face.
I wish you well and hope that this doesn't seem too harsh. I just don't want this discussion with you. Not interested.
I'll be just as honest with you. You don't have a discerning spirit concerning me, that's for sure.
And, what you judge as ARROGANCE, those who know me in the spirit and the flesh will tell you it's flat out ASSURANCE.

It does not matter to me how many tongues you can speak in. That has nothing to do with anything that you've written not does it mean you can't err.
I've been waiting for the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth, concerning that burr would manifest.

There were 3 groups of people in Corinthians. Members, unbelievers and outsiders.

1CO 14:23 If, therefore, the whole church assembles and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?

Group 1 Every member in that pentecostal church spoke in tongues. according to Paul above.

Group 2 Then their were "UNBELIEVERS" (Gr apistos/ without Christian faith (specifically a heathen)

Group 3 This would be "OUTSIDERS" or brethren whose bad church teaching ,or fear or whatever reason, kept them from being a "how many tongues you can speak" believer, as you just called me.
And you did so "not sounding harsh" :pfite: But I do discern a little bit of "you are mad in your post. It might just be the Greek definition for a lot of "OUTSIDERS" in today's church.

"
OUTSIDERS". 2399 idiotes: a private person, i.e. (by impl.) an ignoramus (comp. "idiot")

Paul said it, not me. I just quoted it, like so many other things that make the brethren mad. No response is necessary to this post @PS95 95 I truly do hope the best for you.
 
Last edited:

PS95

Well-Known Member
Jun 16, 2024
2,732
1,842
113
Eastern Shore
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
As far as you are concerned I came out of nowhere. I started on Christian Forums 30+ years ago. You went to no "churches" and learned nothing from them. I went to many churches and learned to separate the grapes from the seeds and the meat from the bone. And then I left. Every denomination is a tombstone to the last move of God in the spirit. You didn't address much at all before disappearing on this thread. As for your position I don't see anyone here cheering you on in your teaching me a lesson.

IMO, I am one who, at 22 was going a 100 miles an hour in the opposite direction of God. And in that 21 years I amassed a huge testimony to the devil, and have no doubt that you can't begin to compete with it. So far, no one in my 55 years ever has. And scripture says "but he who is forgiven little, loves little." I have been forgiven for a lot. And just maybe I've loved him more than you and many others and He has rewarded me for that.


It was IMPLIED by your use of that scripture and anyone else who believes it like you used it. Why didn't you just refute it? This is a serious debate on these forums and if it's too tough then maybe I'm out of your league. I've taken a lot of hits from a lot of 'religious know it alls'. Such is the weakness of not talking face to face.

I'll be just as honest with you. You don't have a discerning spirit concerning me, that's for sure.
And, what you judge as ARROGANCE, those who know me in the spirit and the flesh will tell you it's flat out ASSURANCE.


I've been waiting for the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth, concerning that burr would manifest.

There were 3 groups of people in Corinthians. Members, unbelievers and outsiders.

1CO 14:23 If, therefore, the whole church assembles and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?

Group 1 Every member in that pentecostal church spoke in tongues. according to Paul above.

Group 2 Then their were "UNBELIEVERS" (Gr apistos/ without Christian faith (specifically a heathen)

Group 3 This would be "OUTSIDERS" or brethren whose bad church teaching ,or fear or whatever reason, kept them from being a "how many tongues you can speak" believer, as you just called me.
And you did so "not sounding harsh" :pfite: But I do discern a little bit of "you are mad in your post. It might just be the Greek definition for a lot of "OUTSIDERS" in today's church.

"
OUTSIDERS". 2399 idiotes: a private person, i.e. (by impl.) an ignoramus (comp. "idiot")


Paul said it, not me. I just quoted it, like so many other things that make the brethren mad. No response is necessary to this post @PS95 95 I truly do hope the best for you.

I took the liberty to view some of your other posts. I wanted to try to understand you a bit better. You've got a nice history on this forum of talking down to others, calling them names when they prefer not to deal with you, purposefully pressing your pet topic about 2 holy spirits, and so on. So these post of yours to me are very reminiscent of your posts to others. Just ask yourself why so many do not want to have any further discussion with you. I think it should be evident, but I have a feeling that you will just keep telling yourself that everyone else is the problem. Now you stoop to calling me an idiot.--- JUST LIKE YOU DID THE OTHERS!

But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.
Matt 5:22


rhaka: Fool; Empty-headed; Worthless

Try to think about those words of Jesus. Tongue speaking doesn't excuse sin. We will be held accountable for our every word. At least consider it. It's meant for your good.
I'm not mad at you- don't be silly, but it is a bit annoying to be stalked by someone who wont take a hint, and keeps posting and tagging, and now again even some more after I told you I wasn't interested. I wish you peace.
Take care.
 
Last edited:

Justified

Active Member
Mar 11, 2025
424
188
43
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
As far as you are concerned I came out of nowhere. I started on Christian Forums 30+ years ago. You went to no "churches" and learned nothing from them. I went to many churches and learned to separate the grapes from the seeds and the meat from the bone. And then I left. Every denomination is a tombstone to the last move of God in the spirit. You didn't address much at all before disappearing on this thread. As for your position I don't see anyone here cheering you on in your teaching me a lesson.

IMO, I am one who, at 22 was going a 100 miles an hour in the opposite direction of God. And in that 21 years I amassed a huge testimony to the devil, and have no doubt that you can't begin to compete with it. So far, no one in my 55 years ever has. And scripture says "but he who is forgiven little, loves little." I have been forgiven for a lot. And just maybe I've loved him more than you and many others and He has rewarded me for that.


It was IMPLIED by your use of that scripture and anyone else who believes it like you used it. Why didn't you just refute it? This is a serious debate on these forums and if it's too tough then maybe I'm out of your league. I've taken a lot of hits from a lot of 'religious know it alls'. Such is the weakness of not talking face to face.

I'll be just as honest with you. You don't have a discerning spirit concerning me, that's for sure.
And, what you judge as ARROGANCE, those who know me in the spirit and the flesh will tell you it's flat out ASSURANCE.
Wow, no, that is a whole lot of spiritual pride.

There were 3 groups of people in Corinthians. Members, unbelievers and outsiders.

1CO 14:23 If, therefore, the whole church assembles and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?

Group 1 Every member in that pentecostal church spoke in tongues. according to Paul above.
Except that in context that is not the case:

1Co 12:4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit;
1Co 12:5 and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord;
1Co 12:6 and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone.
1Co 12:7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.
1Co 12:8 For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit,
1Co 12:9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,
1Co 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.
1Co 12:11 All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills. (ESV)