Who is the Father?

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Floyd

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Hello; the problem I feel is that we do not understand how Great is our God!
We know from Scripture that "In the beginning was the Word, and the word was with God, and the Word was God".
It is there in simple form explained, as far as our puny minds can understand at present!
We know from the Word, that the Word is Jesus, God manifest in the flesh, again giving us a simple clue.
We have to accept at this stage (in the flesh) that we cannot understand the Godhead in detail, no matter how we may try; we accept Him in Faith and Love; until all is made clear, as Paul said.
Regards.
Floyd.
 

logabe

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God enrobed Himself in flesh.

In other words, He became a man by lowering Himself in flesh for the purpose of
saving the world by satisfying the Law that had all mankind condemned. The Law
said, you shall surely die if you disobey God's Word. All have sinned and come
short of the glory of God.

But God had a plan!!! I will manifest myself in flesh to pay for the sin of the world.
1st Tim. 4:16 says, God was manifested in the flesh, because all had sinned,
His Plan was to come Himself.

Jesus was the expressed image of God's person (Heb. 1:3). God is Spirit and
therefore He is invisible, but Jesus made Him known in the physical. Jesus spoke
as the Father at times, but He also spoke as a man. This man was given complete
authority as a man by given the Spirit without measure (John 3:34).

As a man... Jesus overcame, and is now seated @ the right hand of POWER. In
other words, Jesus has all power in heaven and on earth (Matthew 28:17-18), and
that is why He told His doubting disciples they could worship Him... He was God!!!

If you take away the man Christ Jesus, John says you have nothing. But if you believe
the record that God (the Spirit) has of His Son, you have eternal life. Therefore, no
one can come to the Father, but by the man Christ Jesus.

My point is, the Son is just as important to us as the Father. You can't have the Father
without recognizing the report that was given about the Son. Jesus never received the
death penalty (carnal mind), because He never disobeyed God's Law. Therefore, He
qualified as the supreme sacrifice that would be accepted by God and would release
the world from this vanity (Rom. 8:20).

After completing His journey in a victorious manner during His allotted time upon this
earth, Jesus could then say in Rev 1:8,

8 I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith
the Lord, which is, which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Jesus explained that verse clearly in the 17th and 18th verse of that same chapter, but
in Isa. 9:6, Isaiah recognized Him as the Everlasting Father. The spirit of the man and
Spirit of the Father became one. I and my Father are one. Father make them one as we
are one.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe
 

John 8:32

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One could always listen to Jesus on that matter of who the Father is just by his teachings.
John 20:17, rev 3:12) Jesus teaches he has a God--at John 17:1-6--While praying to his Father( John 5:30) calls the Father--THE ONLY TRUE GOD-- And says one must know him and know Jesus to gain eternal life--verse 6 = YHWH(Jehovah)

The Lords prayer--Our Father-hallowed be thy name-(YHWH(Jehovah)--

The Israelites served--YHWH(Jehovah) a single being God.

Psalm 83:18
To whom does Jesus hand over the Kingdom after the Millenium?

Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

When Christ delivers up the Kingdom to whom? Himself? No to the Father.

1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

It says here that the one who put all things under Christ is excepted. Did Christ except Himself here?

1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Now is Christ subject to Himself? Or to the Father?
 
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Pelaides

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I think the following verse tells us exactly who Jesus was in his own words.

Matthew 16:13-17
 

HammerStone

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Let's stay on topic please, this is about God the Father. If you want to explore the role of Jesus in eschatological terms, then that's a new thread. Thanks!
 

Wormwood

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lukethreesix,

I think the issue you are having here is that we do not really get the revelation of the triune nature of God in the OT. There are hints of it, but to say that Yahweh only refers to Jesus and not to the Father is to assign labels not really given in the OT. In the OT, God had not fully revealed his Trinitarian nature. To suggest that certain names refer to particular persons of the Trinity is making distinctions I do not believe are clarified in the OT.

Just like when we say "God." We are not being specific about a particular person of the Trinity. I can say "God" and refer to Jesus, the Father or the Spirit. The OT speaks of God as God...not directly of a particular person of the Trinity. Even when we get hints of it...those references are not clear like the revelation we have in the NT. So I don't think separating out names of God in reference to particular persons of the Trinity in the OT is a wise endeavor.
 

Floyd

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Feb 28, 2014
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The fact of the Godhead is beyond dispute!
The argument has been current since Arius: see "Arianism" Subjectindex www.revelationsmessage.co.uk
Elohim (God) has clearly always been a plurality, see Gen. and the account of Creation.
It is interesting to note the clear ref. to Themselves when they decided to "confuse Babylon"!
Our Lord took on the function of Creator to create and to sustain His Creation!
It is also interesting to think on our Lord's words when He told His disciples that He could not send the Holy Spirit, the "Comforter" until He had left this scene!
Floyd.
 

Pelaides

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The fact of the Godhead is beyond dispute!
The argument has been current since Arius: see "Arianism" Subjectindex www.revelationsmessage.co.uk
Elohim (God) has clearly always been a plurality, see Gen. and the account of Creation.
It is interesting to note the clear ref. to Themselves when they decided to "confuse Babylon"!
Our Lord took on the function of Creator to create and to sustain His Creation!
It is also interesting to think on our Lord's words when He told His disciples that He could not send the Holy Spirit, the "Comforter" until He had left this scene!
Floyd.
Then how do you explain this?

exodus20:2,3 "I am the Lord thy God,which have brought thee out of the land of egypt,out of the house of bondage.Thou shalt not have no other Gods before me."

where is the plurality in this commandment?
 

Floyd

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Feb 28, 2014
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The Deity of Jesus Christ
Since the beginning of this human Creation in Eden, the great Enemy of God and man, Satan, has been active in attempting to totally undermine all the activities of Almighty God, Who wishes to draw a people to Himself in a true and loving relationship! Eve and Adam (Separate study)
That Satan’s activity is allowed by God is clear from reading the book of Job and other Scriptures; which shows that Satan is able to act, with restraints, which change from time to time, or “Age to Age”! The reason for the estrangement and conflict between Almighty God and Satan is historically shown in: Satan's origins; (Separate study)
The fact that Satan has free will (self determination), is explicit in the narrative of his conflict with God. Free will, given to humankind as well as Satan and heavenly beings, is crucial to the outcome of the great Plan of Love that God has put into place. The beginning of that Plan is shown in Gen.3:15; and is also critical to the eventual outcome on earth for all surviving human beings, whether in human or spiritual form; as their free will is subject to the same decisions as was Satan’s!
The question has been posed many times to the writers, as to why an Almighty God, who is capable of creating all we see and don’t see, did not just crush such a rebel as Satan? The following Link gives part of the answer; as far as any human can know! Free will: (Separate study)
From Eden to the Great Flood (approx. 1500 years), Satan with his freedom, and control of fallen angels, organised infiltration of human genetics by mixture of human and angelic cross-breeding, which produced a race of giants called Nephilim. The purpose was to thwart the Promise of Gen.3:15, which was/is the antidote of the Satan induced “fall” of Eve and Adam; which in turn introduced death into the world of mankind, as stated by God to Adam, Gen.2:17. Only Noah and his family were not killed by that Flood, as they were the only humans not polluted by Nephilim, and could therefore carry Adams seed forward to the eventual birth of Messiah Christ Jesus, Gen. 6:9. Nephilim, who were they, and why: (Separate study)
From the Flood to Abram, many more attempts were made by Satan to eliminate the Adamic genetic line, which are clearly shown in the Old Testament (OT), which on more than one occasion came close to success, as is related in 2Kings 11. In that incident, Athaliah the daughter of Jezebel, in rage after her son’s death, “slew all the royal seed” except one, Joash; who was hidden in the Temple until old enough to assume power, and who continued the Adamic line. (For a comprehensive listing of the attempts by Satan to destroy the royal line, see Appendix 23 and 25 of the Companion Bible).
As is now very well known in the world, eventually Jesus was born to Mary the espoused of Joseph, as the Gospels of Matthew and Luke show in detail, and is alluded to in the others. As detailed in Matt. 1:18 and Luke 1:35, the “Holy Thing” was to be called the “Son of God” because He was not conceived of man (Joseph), but by “the Power of The Highest” (Luke 1:35)! This great truth was the beginning of the fulfilment of Gen.3:15 (“the seed of the woman”) marked the end of the attempts of Satan to stop His birth! It did however mark the beginning of Satan’s attempts to undermine, defame and kill Jesus, which when He was crucified at Calvary, he must have felt he had the victory! However, in fact Satan had unwittingly instigated an even greater opening for mankind in general, (John 3:16), which came into effect after Acts 28:25-28; which once again the Jews instigated by their rejection finally of Jesus their Christ (Messiah)! The position of the Jews in Scripture, Old and New Testaments. (Separate study)
We know however that the torture and death that Jesus endured was just the beginning of a renewed battle for supremacy between Satan and Almighty God!
Much has been spoken and written regarding the humanity of Jesus as the Son of God, especially during the early centuries after His death, many saying that He could not have been truly human or truly God! With the powerful logic which humans possess, many convincing arguments for and against Christ’s Divinity were presented during the period called “the church fathers”(up to 3-400 AD), the issue reached a critical point during the lifetime of a man called Arius, and raged from AD 323 to 381, during which time the Emperor Constantine attempted to mediate a solution. At the death of Arius the controversy faded to some extent, but northern Germanic Tribes still held that view until well into the seventh century. Since the 1870s the Jehovah’s Witnesses have revived the doctrine, as also have the Unitarian Sect starting in Europe in the mid-16th century, and spreading to England and America by 1784. Arianism: (Separate study)
Where the Deity of Christ Jesus is called into question by human agency, the true Christian (Christ-One) must always hold the doubter in a very careful embrace, as the main weapon of the great enemy Satan, is to cast doubt into the minds of all humans regarding the truth and veracity of God’s Word. When one considers the powerful assault on the early church regarding the Deity of Jesus the Christ, and when one sees that the Roman Church had the power to accept or reject that Doctrine, and went on to adopt so much of ancient Babylon’s religious practice; it is easy to see the truth of our Lord’s and the Apostle Paul’s words, that “Satan is the god of this world”! That statement means that Satan has the power and authority at present on earth which almost everybody is oblivious to, which leaves the world’s people at a disadvantage; as they are not able to discern most or any of his actions. That is especially true if they are members of one of the many Sects now abundant including especially the New Age Movement! Satan clearly showed his power and authority when attempting to seduce the newly baptised Jesus in the wilderness (Matt.4:9); which attempt mirrored his actions in Eden with the first Adam. Jesus had just started His mission on earth as the “second Adam” (1 Cor.15:22, 45,); but was not going to fail, as the first Adam did so soon! Babylon (Separate study )
Why the Roman Catholic church is not of God Almighty: (Separate study) Biblical Truth denied by Roman Church; (Times report 5/10/05) Mystery Babylon: (Separate study)
It is clear that after the failure of Satan at Calvary, he put maximum effort into trying to undermine Christ Jesus’ Deity as his main approach. This was not entirely successful, even though the Roman Church as the main religious authority in the West for the next 1300 years approx. watered down the true salvation message by the use of adopted Babylonian religious practice, and Mariology! It took the bravery of Martin Luther (followed by others) to begin to unwind the falsehood and perversion of the Roman Church’s teachings, developed over the centuries. Bible Text corruption: (Separate study)
In the last 150 years, another attack by the enemy against Christ Jesus is to try casting doubt that He even lived; and that particular falsehood is popular with Orthodox Jewry (Pharisaic Jewry), but is refuted by the famous historian Josephus in his “History of the Jews”. Josephus: His Ref. to Jesus, "The Wonder Worker": (Separate study)
Also in the same period the publication of Darwin’s “Origin of Species” and the general and willing acceptance of his thesis, has countered with ease the spurious church teachings with its gross inaccuracies and neglected attention to accuracy from Scripture! Evolution is not supported by FACT (Various comments) Evolution: (Separate study) The Gross Neglect by Church Teachers of Coming Events: (Separate study) The understanding of Sin (Separate study)Did Darwin become a Christian on his deathbed? (By Malcolm Bowden) DNA, the tiny code that is toppling evolution.: (By Mario Sieglie.)
Again, in the same time period the old heresy regarding Christ’s Deity has reared its head again, so that there is at least a three pronged attack on the minds of men and women, many of whom are sincere seekers after truth and meaning in their lives. The very fact of Satan’s efforts to undermine God and His Manifestation in The Son, emphasises the importance of Christ’s Entity and supreme Sacrifice in His death and suffering at Calvary! The prophecies of those events in the OT notably Isa.53, are moving in the extreme when one considers they speak of the Creator God Himself; in the most giving of all acts possible, the giving of oneself for a “friend” ( John 15:13 ). True; Jesus at that stage was talking to His disciples and Israel, but at the end of Acts He was/is talking to all people in the world; and the offer of His loving redemption is still in place; and will be until this “Age” (Dispensation) is closed.
The Jewish leaders were in gross neglect and denial at their rejection of Him, as in their own lamentable history. They had in their wilderness wandering in Sinai been plagued by serpents which were death bites! The snakes/serpents had been used by God to punish Israel for their on-going rebellion against Him and Moses, even though they were provided miracle food (manna) every day, and delivered from the Canaanites when they remained faithful! God gave Moses the antidote, a brass serpent mounted on a pole which when they had been bitten, they had to choose to look upon and in faith they lived; and all Israel were drawn to the symbol of life saving, as they probably were all bitten by the serpent/Satan (Num.21:8 and 9)! Jesus said “If I be lifted up from the earth, I will draw all men unto me”, indicating the type of death He was to undertake; and to be made sin for mankind (John 12:32); as per the brass serpent! Just as the nation of Israel had to choose to look to the serpent raised; so now and since Acts 28:28, humans must choose or not to look up to the Jesus sacrificed on the cross at Calvary! The understanding of Sin (Separate study)
This is the major point here being made, Christ Jesus’ success in drawing people to Him spells the eventual doom of all Satan’s efforts from Eden, and when the “number of the Gentiles is made up” (Rom.11:25, Acts 15:17, Luke 21:24,) Christ’s mystery Body Col.1:24-27 will be complete, and this Dispensation will end, and the world will be dealt with by Jehovah Zebaoth (God of all people He Created)! See: www.revelationsmessage.co.uk
It is worth mentioning here that “Christendom” (defined as the standard church members in the world of all the various churches originally Roman, and the various Protestant offshoots) is not the same as Christ’s Body. However, many members of Christendom are also true Christ-Ones and therefore of His Body! The only criterion for entry into His Body is a sincere heartfelt acceptance of Him and faith in His loving Sacrifice at Calvary! At that point the person is “sealed” in heaven until the resurrection call; and Satan has no further claim on that person or their life! They are owned by The risen Christ Jesus. See: Faith (Separate study)
It becomes clear why Satan is so active when in possession of the above facts; and when treated seriously by mankind they are better able to deal with him in his attacks! Ephesians gives lucid information regarding the Christian and dealings with Satan, especially Chapter 6. When knowing Satan’s current motivations, the Christian is well armed both for now and the future! Satan's Motivation: (Separate study) Father of lies: (Separate study)
There are many statements in Scripture as to the Messiah- ship, and therefore the Deity of Jesus; initially in the OT, and confirmations in the NT. Some are listed in the Link below. The Gospel of John chapter 20:31 has the overarching statement which shows the heart of Almighty God towards humankind, and is conclusive in itself! However; the decision is still in that precious domain of all people and their freewill; and all decisions made for Christ Jesus counter the negative decision made by Satan in his pride and glory of himself! Bible references of the Messiahship of Jesus Christ
There is yet much to happen regarding Satan’s attempts to raise himself above Almighty God and His Son, as shown in the Link re. his list of objectives (his motivation). He has yet to manifest himself in his anti-Christ, including performing counterfeit miracles and being accepted by many people as Christ Himself returned; also as the hidden teacher the Mahdi to Islam; and as the long sought Messiah to the Jews! These subterfuges will be welcomed by many people on earth, and the worldwide Ecumenical Movement is dangerously propagating this atmosphere of false hope. These points are discussed in some detail in: www.revelationsmessage.co.uk The Ecumenical Movement and the Bible: (Separate study)
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Suhar

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ChristianJuggarnaut said:
I wonder if there is a scripture that tells us we can understand the Godhead. Hmmmm, yet I wonder.
Bible is quite available now days. Wonder no more and show the scripture!
 

logabe

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John 8:32 said:
To whom does Jesus hand over the Kingdom after the Millenium?

Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

When Christ delivers up the Kingdom to whom? Himself? No to the Father.

1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

It says here that the one who put all things under Christ is excepted. Did Christ except Himself here?

1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Now is Christ subject to Himself? Or to the Father?
This is one of the most sacred secrets in the universe. God hid this secret from the
carnal mind so therefore, the only way to understand this mystery is to diligently
seek it by the Spirit.

To answer your question about the man Christ Jesus being subject to the Father
(Spirit) is just that. The man died as a man not as God. The man's spirit was always
subject to the Spirit of God and that is what qualified him as the perfect sacrifice.

God was made a little lower than the angels to perform his purpose and plan. He
hungered and got thirsty as a man, but as God he fed multitudes. As I said in the
last post, the Son is just as important as the Father. Jesus said, if you don't believe
that I am He, you shall die in your sins. Why? Because many don't believe that
Jesus is the Father.

Jesus also said, If you really know me, you should have known my Father
also: and from henceforth you know him and have seen him (John 14:7).

If you read on Philip said, show us the Father and Jesus said, have I been so long
time with you, and yet you don't know who I am. When you have seen me, you
have seen the Father.

I'll end it with this ( Luke 10:23-24).

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe