Monergism or Synergism,

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Angelina

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While contemplating on the various aspects of monergism and synergism, I find myself leaning toward the latter when "regeneration" refers to the salvation experience...and the former, when referring to being "Born-again"

This is purely based on the premise that we are following a process from salvation of the sinner to the impartation of the Holy Spirit. However, these steps do not always follow a particular order of sequence and there are times where there is no gap between one experience and another as the Holy Spirit is not confined to any form of methodology but the will of God.

Any thoughts?

Blessings!
 

Arnie Manitoba

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There are times I think I have really changed myself since becoming a Christian
There are times I think God alone has changed me
There are times I think it was me who went searching for answers (Christ)
There are times I think Christ guided me to find Him

How's that for being firmly on both sides of the fence at the same time. :)
 

aspen

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wow what a great topic! i will have to think about it before i respond
ok - i was thinking a lot about this already because of a christian radio program on the dangers of the new age. Apparently, it is a new age concept to believe that God and humans work together - weird because i totally believe the OT is a record of God working with us. i am an active participate in my redemption - i couldnt do it without God, but if i wasnt involved there would be no suffering - and i experience suffering in my lifejust like everyone else. The life of the Fallen is suffering and the life of those of us who are being redeemed is suffering, without worldly comforts.

i tend to believe that we are already kneeling at the throne of God and we are here to learn about the forgiveness God has already given us.
 

justaname

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Salvation from a human perspective salvation is three staged...we are saved, we are being saved, and we will be saved. I can explain more about this if you like but I think you comprehend what I am saying from your OP.

That being said I believe God chooses us, sanctifies us, and glorifies us. In the sanctification process we still have a will to choose in accordance with our greatest desire. This is why the Christian can still sin, yet this failure in regard to sin need not classify them as sinners. It is this process that contains anything I see as synergism, yet I do not see our success or failure based upon our performance or cooperation. It is God's promise that we are His workmanship, not our own. It is God's promise to prepare the church without spot or blemish. It is God's promise to put in us a new heart. It is God's promise to complete what He starts.

Each one of these can be expanded but for the sake of time I will focus on only one.
God gives us a new heart, a heart that has a different desire than the old, evil, stony, heart. This new heart is set to please, honor, and glorify God, it is set to love.

With this though we still battle between our new nature and our old nature because we have been living a time following our evil desires. We are creatures of habit. This is Paul's "walk in the Spirit" exhortation. With the truth of sin existing in the Christian experience, it is evident we are to cooperate by resisting. Yet when we believe we are cooperating by our own strength, pride or vanity becomes our sin. So our true cooperation becomes unconditional surrender. Surrender to God's strength in our weakness, surrender to God's sovereign authority in every experience, surrender to God's love and forgiveness in our failures.

This then leads to the question, what is it to sin? (Huge topic and question that could be exhausting in an answer) The short answer...anything that goes against love, keeping God as your first love. We are to live by the Spirit not by the letter of the Law.

So in attempt to be clear and concise, I believe I agree with the OP. We are synergistic in our sanctification process yet all glory, honor, and praise be to God for being our Guide through the process. We are not to think that we have anything good of our own to add for we are unworthy servants who have only done our duty.
 

HammerStone

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Great topic, and it's one that I have gone back and forth on!

I am Synergist in the sense that God works with us in salvation. I am a Monergist in the sense that "For in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’" (Acts 17:28 HCSB). Our universe derives from God. Our very being, of course, derives from God, so in that sense I agree with Aspen that God sets the stage. However, I very clearly believe God himself chooses to allow things to happen, even with the divine foreknowledge necessary to know our hearts (and therefore actions) intimately.

In addition to this, the two ancient strands of Christianity (Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism) are Synergist. I view the advent of St. Augustine and later Calvin(ists) and Reformed as not so much error, but just a varying perspective on salvation. (Two sides of the same coin, if you will.) I think Reformed theology is valuable, but I also think that there can be an unhealthy emphasis on this theology and topic at times.

If you read men like John Wesley, a notable Arminian, his language doesn't sound that distinct from Calvin in terms of the sovereignty of God. I'll be happy to provide a sermon where he discusses the issue and makes some orthodox and Biblical statements. Arminianism is not Pelagianism or Semi-Pelagianism as some would want it to be.

With that said, the biggest thing for me is the ordo salutis (order of salvation). Monergists see regeneration taking place at least simultaneously or just before faith. In general, it works like this (with perhaps some variation):

Predestination => Election => Calling => Regeneration => Faith => Repentance => Justification

The Arminian (Synergist) path varies, with the key being Prevenient Grace:

Foreknowledge => Predestination => Election => Prevenient Grace => External Calling => Repentance => Faith => Justification

*Sometimes you'll see Repentance & Faith lumped together.

I've seen many a Calvinist speak to the notion that foreknowledge is just God knowing beforehand what you will do. I would take foreknowledge to the level that God knows us intimately, meaning he does know what we will do not because he looks down the corridors of time, but because he knows our hearts so well that he knows what we will do. It's very difficult for us to wrap our heads around God knowing the same knowledge at the time of our first creation (thought even) as he does at our earthly death.

Prevenient Grace and Regeneration serve a similar purpose, even though some will vehemently deny this. In the Wesleyan thought, Predestination and Election are more corporate, and Prevenient Grace is just a more general working of God paving the way for us to have faith.

I do what to emphasize that these illustrations can be atemporal. I think we tend to think very linearly and so that makes us think that if something is addressed after, it will happen after in time. Some of these steps may overlap or take place at the same time, for both the Synergist and Monergist.

All of the above said, I very much want to emphasize that the western notion of one and done saved is false. It's a lifetime of being saved (Paul uses this tense in at least one spot to my knowledge), and Ieft out sanctification in the above illustrations just to focus on the first part of ordo salutis.
 

IanLC

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I believe that Christ called me to salvation and from that call I accepted the call and submitted myself to the work of the Holy Spirit and the Word. God lays out the commands and guidance in His Word and through the work of the Holy Spirit and our submission to Him we are made in and walk in the likeness of Christ Jesus! He that has begun a good work shall complete that work (Philippians 1:6) and "work out your own soul salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12). God and man work together in salvation look at the mystery revealed "Jesus was human and divine!" both were needed to bring forth salvation for all!
 
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Poppin

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HammerStone said:
Great topic, and it's one that I have gone back and forth on!

I am Synergist in the sense that God works with us in salvation. I am a Monergist in the sense that "For in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’" (Acts 17:28 HCSB). Our universe derives from God. Our very being, of course, derives from God, so in that sense I agree with Aspen that God sets the stage. However, I very clearly believe God himself chooses to allow things to happen, even with the divine foreknowledge necessary to know our hearts (and therefore actions) intimately.
So...synergist? :) in salvation?
in anything?
does God look down through the corridors of time and see who chooses Him? then Begins? NO (says the Bible).

you decide:

On the Bondage of the Will
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Bondage_of_the_Will

Bondage of the Will #1 by Martin Luther, <-------audio
This Reformer's Most Important Book
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=10306112820

Pelagians ; Arminianis ; all.....please comment.

God Bless you.in Christ our Lord,
continue to serve His holy and apostolic church
Poppin :)

HammerStone said:
Monergists see regeneration taking place at ..........
HammerStone,
Monergists are only monolithic on one thing:
Salvation is God's doing - first to last.
For individuals. :)

So...ya....The Trinity is working the salvation of particular people.
And since God is omniscient, He knows who they are.

And always did.
Then said : BE LIGHT, or LIGHT, BE.

as we know it - LET THERE BE LIGHT.

----

UHCAllen

I believe that Christ called me to salvation....

Amen.
 

Quantrill

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I think a good clear definition of the terms 'monergism' and 'synergism' as used in the opening post would be helpful. To me anyway.

Quantrill
 
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HammerStone

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So...synergist? :) in salvation?
in anything?
Synergist.


does God look down through the corridors of time and see who chooses Him? then Begins? NO (says the Bible).
Then we would be in agreement. My point was merely that God's foreknowledge would preclude his need to look down through the corridors of time. This can be maintained in both the Arminian and Calvinistic or Reformed worldviews. (I typically include the Lutheran view subsumed as a Reformed view, although there are notable differences.)

I've actually read a large portion of Luther's Bondage of the Will. His point about God's will being the only true free will is well done. However, I just don't make the mistake of thinking that in order for this to be true, God must have predestined everything everyone does. The Lutheran view is more nuanced here (as most will shy away from the term double predestination), but I stop full of the continued insinuation that God predetermines sin. I just don't think the supralapsarian view works when taken to its logical conclusion due to some rather interesting notions of God decreeing sin and condemnation for something that does not yet exist.

I never mean to leave out the Lutheran view on this topic, but I also see Calvin as taking this view to a logical end. (The Lutheran view seems a more mysterious view of Predestination where God decrees the saved, but not the sinner. The Calvin view says God decrees both.) I have come to see that God may very well have knowledge, yet choose not to act on it the way we would postulate out He would.
 

Poppin

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HammerStone said:
Synergist.



Then we would be in agreement. My point was merely that God's foreknowledge would preclude his need to look down through the corridors of time. This can be maintained in both the Arminian and Calvinistic or Reformed worldviews. (I typically include the Lutheran view subsumed as a Reformed view, although there are notable differences.)

I've actually read a large portion of Luther's Bondage of the Will. His point about God's will being the only true free will is well done. However, I just don't make the mistake of thinking that in order for this to be true, God must have predestined everything everyone does. The Lutheran view is more nuanced here (as most will shy away from the term double predestination), but I stop full of the continued insinuation that God predetermines sin. I just don't think the supralapsarian view works when taken to its logical conclusion due to some rather interesting notions of God decreeing sin and condemnation for something that does not yet exist.

I never mean to leave out the Lutheran view on this topic, but I also see Calvin as taking this view to a logical end. (The Lutheran view seems a more mysterious view of Predestination where God decrees the saved, but not the sinner. The Calvin view says God decrees both.) I have come to see that God may very well have knowledge, yet choose not to act on it the way we would postulate out He would.
Hi Wormwood.
The rebellion started in heaven - before Adam fell.
Didn't it?

I agree, God knows everything, but is not the author of evil.

Poppin.
 

Angelina

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Hmmm...I cannot see Wormwood's post here... :unsure: why are you referring to him in this thread rather than the thread he is obviously commenting in???