Please HELP Dan. 2:45

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Purity

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Retrobyter said:
Shalom, Purity.


Wow. You said, "Patriotism: Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism—how passionately I hate them! AE." If THAT'S your definition of patriotism, it's no wonder you have a problem with it! That's NOT the patriotism that I was taught in school - even in Christian school - when I was a child!

All I meant by the statement of the mechanics of a gun was simply that it is JUST A MACHINE! It has neither a positive nor a negative intention! A GUN IS JUST A TOOL!!! You don't need to fear it any more than you need to cherish it! No amount of gun control is going to change the hearts of those who abuse guns! Gun control SOUNDS good, but it does not work. If someone wants to acquire a gun for some illicit reason - ANY illicit reason, they WILL acquire one, legally or not!
Greetings Retro.

Gun control does not work? Ha! You guys make me laugh...like talking Veteran who loves his patriotism and believes everyone should own a gun. He has no Scriptural premise and only a trigger happy culture to support his views. He is yet to put off the old man of flesh and follow Christ more completely. It appears you may suffer from the same.

It would be better for you showed a little humility rather than pretending to know what you are talking about. (said respectfully)

The findings have been out for years about the success of gun control laws. The reality Retro is Americans love violence (not all) just the bad ones ;)

1995-2006-1.png


1995-2006-2.png


Don't you know Australia has become the test case for the rest of the world - ironically the Americans are behind on this one.

The two graphs above show how the rates of firearm homicide and firearm suicide have varied in Australia over the period 1915 to 2006. More recent figures (up to 2009) suggest that the rates remain near 0.1 per 100,000 of population for firearm homicide and 0.8 per 100,000 of population for firearm suicide. It is clear that the declines in death rates are associated with the list of stricter gun laws introduced, as shown on the right hand side of each graph.
Several Australian gun clubs are deceiving the public by claiming that the National Firearms Agreement of 1996 has not been successful. The Sporting Shooters Association (SSAA) and the International Coalition for Women in Shooting and Hunting are two examples. We believe that soon our politicians will realise that it is often unwise to trust gun club leaders on gun law matters.

The two graphs shown below use Australian Bureau of Statistics data, they show how the number of deaths by firearm homicide and firearm suicide have been greatly reduced since stricter gun laws were introduced after 32 people were murdered in six massacres by legal gun owners in 1987, and 41 people were murdered by non-criminal gun owners in two massacres in 1996.

The improved gun laws after 1996 are usually called the National Firearms Agreement (NFA) or sometimes referred to as the Howard gun laws.

From the graphs it can be seen that the reduction in yearly rates of firearm homicide and firearm suicide are approximately two thirds of what they used to be in the days before improvements were made to the laws (The long period of approx 30 years between 1956 and 1986). Thousands of lives have been saved: why do the gun clubs deny this? Are they ashamed of their stance that more Australians would die?

It took over a decade for the full worth of the post-1987 and post-1996 gun laws to be revealed, but the facts are known now and have been known for several years.

In our opinion, over a decade’s examination of gun incidents has also revealed that there were two weaknesses in the NFA, the superficiality of shooter training and insufficient rigour in several of the regulations relating to gun storage. These could be addressed now, and should be, without any major changes to the successful structure of the NFA.

Note: I am not apposed to hunting - do it myself :) just apposed to governments who openly preach Christian values all the while approving of senseless death and violent societies.

Something is a miss in your country and you are blind to its reality.

Don't worry - Christ will fix it all up when he returns.

http://guncontrol.org.au/
 

DaDad

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Sep 28, 2012
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Hi Purity,

You might wish to open a new Topic for your interests.


To All,

From last summarized, we still have no resolution for GOD's sequence in Daniel 2:45 IRON, BRONZE, CLAY, SILVER, GOLD = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE:


DaDad said:
To All,

Has anyone noticed that the "mystery" of GOD's Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE remains unsolved? Certainly there have been denials as to the INTELLIGENT DESIGN of this sequence; there have been attempts to accure this sequence to anyone but GOD (presumably so that they can deny disobedience of Scripture); and there were tangents which attempted to divert attention from the question. But in all these "contributions" to this Topic, NONE were able explain why GOD specified the 4,3,5,2,1 sequence.

In some circles, if an individual did not know an answer they would say: "I don't know." But it would seem that in this "community" we've seen every response except: "I don't know." Which is in contrast to when Jesus did not know the day or the hour, he said HE DID NOT KNOW. So is there a lesson to be learned here? Are we to judge the "prophets" as Scripture demands? And do we judge righteously?


1 Cor. 14:29
Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge.

Dan. 2:45
... the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold ...


With Best Regards,
DD
 

Purity

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May 20, 2013
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DaDad said:
Hi Purity,

You might wish to open a new Topic for your interests.


To All,

From last summarized, we still have no resolution for GOD's sequence in Daniel 2:45 IRON, BRONZE, CLAY, SILVER, GOLD = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE:
Hi DaDad
I think the forum members have grown weary of your 4,3,5,2,1 theology - time to move on I think.
Purity
 

DaDad

Member
Sep 28, 2012
541
3
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Hi Purity,

Purity said:
- time to move on I think.
Cases abound in Scripture where people didn't want to receive the Word/Jesus/Scripture, with the recourse:

Luke 9:52
52 And he sent messengers ahead of him, who went and entered a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him; 53 but the people would not receive him, because his face was set toward Jerusalem.
...
56 And they went on to another village.


Now, if anyone has an answer for GOD's Intelligent Design in Daniel 2:45, please provide that insight lest any think that GOD is befuddled, confused, addle-brained, or just plain stupid -- as some would apparently argue.


With Best Regards,
DaDad
 

Purity

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Hi Purity,

Cases abound in Scripture where people didn't want to receive the Word/Jesus/Scripture, with the recourse:
You mean numbers right? People who didn't want to receive numbers?
 

Floyd

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Feb 28, 2014
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The Ten Toes of Daniel 2-42
Who are these two beasts? They clearly are important, as they are referred to in the Old Testament (OT), and also in the New Testament (NT), by inference. They undoubtedly are in timing related to the events of the end of the Gentile period, and the saving of Israel by Almighty God in Christ Jesus Messiah!
Chapter 13:1 of the Bible describes them as “rising up out of the sea”. The word “sea” in Scripture usually denotes many peoples, unless specific to usually the Mediterranean, which is often referred to as “the Great Sea”.
Most if not all the events of Scripture have as the geographical focus what has become known in the past as Palestine, which is at the eastern end of the “Great Sea”. As the history of the area progressed over time, and especially during the Roman Empire period, the Countries around the Mediterranean became important to Prophecy, because of the Roman occupation, and the prophecy in Danial 2:33, which refers to the “latter days”v28, and the events of that time! The particularly important point is verse 42, which refers to “the toes of the feet”, which in later comment is shown to be 10 individual Nations, which had their original Nationhood formed or enhanced during the times of power of the Roman Empire.
To avoid repeating previous writing , the following are extracts from www.revelationsmessage.co.uk and are from Chapter 13. This first extract is the “first beast”, and as will be seen refers to political power; whereas the “second Beast” refers to religious power and its effect in the world.

CHAPTER 13
V.1
And (a)he stood on the sand of the sea, and I saw a (b)wild beast coming up out of the sea, having (c)ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads (d)names of blasphemy.
V.2
And the beast which I saw was like a leopard, and his feet as the feet of a bear its mouth as a lion's
mouth, and the (e)dragon gave it this power, also its throne, and great authority.
(a) "He;" this is translated in AV as "I." However, as this verse in the original undivided text follows V.17 of Chapter 12, the reference is almost certainly to Satan. (Chapters and verses have only been inserted into the Bible in recent times.) Therefore Satan oversees as he stands on the edge of the sea the rising of the beast. Sea is often used in Scripture as a metaphor for peoples / nations, so here "he," watched the rising of a particular grouping of peoples, or personage, or both! Satan oversees this birth, whereas Almighty God oversaw the birth of Christ from Israel (12:1-5.)
( B) "Wild beast;" this is the first reference in Scripture to such since Daniel (B.C. 495.) In his day, the nation of Israel was in exile in Babylon from his youth for 70 years, and he was a man (Prophet) much loved by God (Dan. 9:23,) (Dan. 10:19.) Daniel was given the ability to interpret dreams, in the Power and Permit of Almighty God, to which he always paid homage and witness to His power; and did so on a number of occasions in his early captivity. One of those dreams much troubled Nebuchadnezzar (Dan. 2) and concerned the image of a man. Daniel, after witnessing to the source of the dream (Dan. 2:28) gave its meaning (Dan. 2:29-45.) The man's image represented 4 kingdoms.
1) The head of gold represented Babylonian empire, symbol LION B.C. 626 -539.
2) The chest and arms of silver, Medo - Persia, BEAR B.C. 539 - 330.
3) Belly and thighs of bronze, Greek empire, LEOPARD B.C. 330 - 63.
4) Legs of iron, Roman Empire, Eagle? (Terrifying beast) B.C. 63 - to: (A.D. 70 as regards Israel!)

* Note: The feet are discussed in verse 8 notes.

The important principle in the above for the purpose of the Almighty, and the record made by the Holy Spirit in the Bible, is not the kingdoms as such, but the fact that they impinge on ISRAEL when the history of Israel is current (defined as "Ammi") as opposed to the history of mankind generally. Such is the present success of Satan, that mankind is blinded to the importance of the Divine Clock regarding Israel. Israel is special to God, and are called such on many occasions in Scripture, because God chose Abraham, because He knew his heart, and that he would be prepared to stand against the Satanic idolatry around him, Abraham responded in faith, and all the promises of God in the Old Testament relate to Abraham, and subsequently Israel. Because of this fact, only events affecting Israel in human history, and the purposes of God are the subject of prophecy and record in the Bible. For example; in item 4) above, the Roman Empire ceased to be important in the Divine Plan at A.D. 70, BECAUSE ISRAEL HAD BECOME "LO-AMMI," (NOT MY PEOPLE) (HOSEA 1:9,) and that was as a consequence of the rejection of Christ as their Messiah!
At some stage in the future, Jewish history as defined above will re-commence. There is however only a short time left in the Divine prophetic time scale, as laid out to Daniel in Dan. 9:27; which gives only 7 more years of that prophecy to run. In between Dan. 9:26 and V.27, already approximately 1,930 years have elapsed. These however are not Jewish years of 360 days, but a mixture of Julian and Gregorian, which allows for lost and or gained time counting. In short it is probably not possible to know the exact Jewish year which we are now in, although some claim to know (i.e. on the 1/10/00, the Jewish new year of 5,761 begins according to Jewish "Rabbinical wisdom.") Even if it was known, it is irrelevant, as only God the Father knows the time when the Jewish nation will become "AMMI" (MY PEOPLE,) again, (Hos. 2:23,) (Zech. 13:9,) (Rom. 9:26,) (1Peter 2:10.) In Dan. 9:27 the statement of "a covenant," gives the probable clue as to commencement of the final 7 years of the prophecy, as that "covenant," will be for peace for Israel. When they think they have "peace and safety;" Satan in the guise of the beast in V.2 will strike (Ezk. 38:14,) (1Thess. 5:3,) for the last time against Israel, (prior to the Millennial Reign); "in the midst of the week," i.e. half way through the 7 year period described above. However,
turning now to the beast described in V.1 and V.2; put into its context in chapter 13 of Revelation, and bearing in mind the above, a few comments can be made with some certainty.

1) The symbols of empires, Leopard, Lion, Bear, are repeated from earlier empires, affecting Israel as a nation. I.e. there have been other empires in that area since, but Israel was not a Nation in their land, under Jehovah; when their, prophetic progress is current!
2) Since 1948 Israel has officially been recognised as a nation (by the then League of Nations, now the U.N.) That was the first time since A.D. 70, and the Jews kept their unique identity wherever they were scattered, although very few know their tribe of origin, but their Jehovah God does!
3) The fact that they are now a Nation in the eyes of the world, probably augers the re-commencement of their Divine History, i.e. the last 7 years of Dan. 9, in the near future.
4) The identities of the Leopard, Lion and Bear are known from Dan. 2, and this last "beast" is certainly in the prophetic geographical area, and in characteristics shows an amalgam of these and probably the Roman empire. These empires covered and overlapped each other, and in the crossroads to Asia, Africa and Europe in what was known as Palestine, and Israel is central. The yet future empire (beast) described in this chapter has Israel at its focal point, and is further described in Dan. 2:41-44.
5) The specific nations involved are probably given in Ezk. 32, 38, and Psm 83, all of which fit the above criterion, and are in the "prophetic area," i.e. the known world of Old Testament prophecy, and directly affecting the chosen people, Israel.
6) The animal symbols given probably show characteristics of this beast, again referring to Daniel 2:29-45. The "Leopard;" speed, Alexander's empire from Macedonia to the Indus river, was conquered and formed in 8 years! The "Bear;" Medo-Persia, present day Persia (Iran,) Iraq, Caucuses peoples, and half of Turkey. These are probably the "feet," of the beast, they bear the weight. The "Lion;" the Babylonian empire, with the ancient city of Babylon at the centre, is present day Iraq, of recent infamous history. This is the probable head/ mouth of the beast.
- To summarise; this beast will form very quickly, "Leopard." It will also consist of part of ancient Greece, now Turkey, (the area of the 7 churches. "Ekkiesia".)
- Its extent will be roughly the area of the Medo-Persia empire, "Bear."
- Its head/ mouth will be Babylon - "Lion."

(c) "Ten horns and seven heads;" these are well described in Dan. 7:7-8, and Dan. 7:19-28. This end time empire Confederation (beast) will probably be of the nations described above. The horns are ten kings (Dan. 7:24,) three will be replaced by one who is more powerful (V.20.) They are located in 7 countries (or areas) of the above mix.
(d) “Names of blasphemy;" this fact underlines him whose power reigns in this empire; Satan. His throne (power base) will be in Pergamum (i.e. in present day Turkey,) and his whole effort will be to attempt to annihilate Israel with all the power available to him. The "names of blasphemy," will show in part in his attempt to persuade the people of Israel and the world that he is God, and he will show much power and wonders to that end, his is the unforgivable sin (Matt. 12:31) and those that follow him appear to suffer the same fate. See note 14:1(c.)
(e) Satanic beyond all previous, with Satan's power and authority beyond description. As we know from Rev. 12:12 Satan knows his time is short, and he will condense the evil and terror.

What follows is the extract from www.revelationsmessage concerning the “second Beast”, and as mentioned refers to the religious development.

V.11
And I saw (a)another (b)beast coming up out of the earth; and he had (c)two horns like a lamb,
and he was (d)speaking as a dragon.
(a) "Another;" the Greek word (allos,) means "another of the same kind," (Comp. App. 124-1.)
( B) "Beast;" (i.e. "wild beast," but distinguished from that of V.1.)
(c) The fact of similarity to a "lamb," shows inescapable similarity to the "Lamb of God," and is intended as such. The two horns speak of testimony (App. 10) or difference. When two testimonies agree, it is conclusive. Horns in Scripture always speak of kingships, or power (relative to earth.) So here two horns agree, (testimony,) conveyed by "a lamb," (spiritual or religious figure.)
(d) "Speaking as a dragon;" in Scripture, only Satan. So, after the first beast (political,) arises and is established, this second "beast," (religious) arises which is empowered by Satan, and whose task is to bring about worship from the people (V.15,) and therefore remove worship and allegiance from the"One True God," Jehovah Zebaoth! This beast is then probably the false prophet of Chp. 16:13, 19:20, 20:10.
V.12
And he exercised all the (a)power of the first beast before him, and caused the earth and them
that dwell therein to (b)worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

(a) Here the 2nd "beast," shows itself to be similar to the first (V.11,) with the same power, but with a different emphasis.
( B) The emphasis is "worship!" The politics of the first beast brought about the attention and focus of the peoples, which is now to be turned further into "worship," (vicariously of Satan) which as stated previously is the motive force and objective of Satan from earlier ages.

V.13
And he doeth (a)great wonders including making (a)fire descend from heaven onto the earth in the sight of men,

V.14
And (b)deceived them dwelling on the earth by means of those wonders, which it was given him to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an (c)image to the beast, which had the wound of a sword, and did live.
(a) "Great wonders;" nothing impresses mankind more than demonstrations of power, especially when they lean to the mystery and charisma that only Satan can generate (i.e. towards darkness.) When Elijah contended with the priests of Baal, (1Kings 18,) bringing fire down from heaven in the contest, defeating the Baal priests, slaying them and winning the day for, and by Jehovah, he was not a popular man (1Kings 19.) When our Lord did the required miracles (signs) (Isa 29:18,) (Isa. 35:5-6,) (Matt. 11:4-5,) (Rom. 15:8,) they were derided by the Pharisees and priesthood, and rejected by them. Here this beast (false prophet,) (2 Thess. 2:9,) (Rev. 16:13) does "great wonders," and is accepted, instantly.
( B) Deceit is Satan's main method (Rev. 20:3,) (Rev. 20:8,) and with humans it started in the Garden of Eden with Eve.
(c) "Image;" Almighty God expressly forbade Israel to make any image for worship (Lev. 26:1,) in that command, God states that He is their God (Jehovah.) In John's Gospel (4:23-24,) the mind of the Father is revealed, requiring only "worship in spirit and in truth." Stating clearly that He is "Spirit," and requiring only sincere from the heart worship, as opposed to ritual and ceremony. The Enemy therefore, through the second beast requires the opposite, i.e. image, ritual and ceremony, (reminiscent of the Roman Church,) so as to maximise idolatry and worship of Satan.

These brief extracts from Chapter 13 of www.revelationsmessage.co.uk should be studied with care against a good copy of the Holy Bible, (one such being the KJV Companion Bible) to become familiar with the Prophecies, and to form one’s own opinions on them! It is particularly important now, due to the many events taking place in the Mediterranean area!

It is thought that the events of the “Arab Spring,” which started in early 2011 could be the formation of the first “Beast” of Rev. 13. However, as those “Beasts” are certainly a function of “Jacob’s Trouble;” (The Great Tribulation,) the more likely interpretation is that they are the “beginning of sorrows” Matt. 24:8.

Taking Israel as the focal point (i.e. proximity,) Matt. 24:6 and Luke 21:9, probably gives relevance to what is happening now in the Arab Nations surrounding them.

Isa. 66 describes in detail the deliverance of Israel in the yet future (current date 2012,) and describes it as “birth,” 66:9. If the events of the “Arab Spring” are the beginning of the birth-pangs, then they are unstoppable, and the “birth” will happen, soon!

If you have questions or comments, please click here.

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DaDad

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Sep 28, 2012
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Hi Floyd,

Floyd said:
1) The head of gold represented Babylonian empire, symbol LION B.C. 626 -539.
2) The chest and arms of silver, Medo - Persia, BEAR B.C. 539 - 330.
3) Belly and thighs of bronze, Greek empire, LEOPARD B.C. 330 - 63.
4) Legs of iron, Roman Empire, Eagle? (Terrifying beast) B.C. 63 - to: (A.D. 70 as regards Israel!)
I guess my first grade teacher was wrong. She told me that FIVE ≠ FOUR.


Daniel 2:45
the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE

Daniel 7
Lion, Bear, Leopard (actually a Tiger), Dreadful = 1,2,3,4 = FOUR


Perhaps you should also advise both Ms. Woods and GOD of their mistake!



With Best Regards,
DD


PS Please advise if you have an ALTERNATE explanation for the 4,3,5,2,1 + FIVE sequence.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Hi Purity,

Purity said:
You mean numbers right?
Please wire the distributor on your 6-cylinder engine 1,2,3,4,5,6 and tell me how it runs!




To All,

Who in their right mind would take a design, build it to the plan view, and ignore all the other views and cross-sections?

Dan. 2:45
the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE


Why do so many presume that they are SMRT*, but GOD is STUPID?!?


The Simpsons
I am so smart,
I am so smart,
SMRT,
SMRT

With Best Regards,
DD
 

DaDad

Member
Sep 28, 2012
541
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Purity said:
I drive a direct injected turbo diesel.
Great! Now you don't have to re-arrainge Dan. 2:45, -- you can throw it out all together!


Dan. 2:45
Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE


With Best Regards,
DD
 

Purity

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DaDad said:
Great! Now you don't have to re-arrainge Dan. 2:45, -- you can throw it out all together!


Dan. 2:45
Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE


With Best Regards,
DD
I have thrown nothing out :)
 

DaDad

Member
Sep 28, 2012
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Purity said:
I have thrown nothing out :)

Then either OBEY as written:

Dan. 2:45
Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE

... wherein the empire of CLAY is a separate distinct FIFTH empire (as opposed to 1,2,3,4a/4b) ...


OR provide an alternate explanation for GOD's INTELLIGENT DESIGN.




To All,

Matt. 21:28
28 “What do you think? There was a man who had two sons. He went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work today in the vineyard.’
29 “‘I will not,’ he answered, but later he changed his mind and went.
30 “Then the father went to the other son and said the same thing. He answered, ‘I will, sir,’ but he did not go. Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you.


So which "son" is it that obeys Dan. 2:45, 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE?


With Best Regards,
DD
 

Floyd

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Feb 28, 2014
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DD: we do not have the same approach; or attitude!
therefore, we cannot connect re interpretation!
Floyd.
 

DaDad

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Sep 28, 2012
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Floyd said:
DD: we do not have the same approach; or attitude!
therefore, we cannot connect re interpretation!
Floyd.
Hi Floyd,

Please be aware that this is not between you and me, it's between you and SCRIPTURE:

Dan. 2:45
Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE


If this were between you and me, I'd ask you to either OBEY Scripture and arrive to the premise as outlined in the opening post, or provide an alternate explanation as to the significance of GOD's 4,3,5,2,1 sequence. But because you have apparently appealed to the Higher Authority, I leave your situation between you and GOD. However, if you should post thoughts contrary to GODs 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE dictate, I will continue to respond accordingly.

DD
 

DaDad

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Sep 28, 2012
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To All,

Well, that makes one more who dismisses Scripture as irrelevant to their Doctrines. Is there ANYONE who can explain why GOD delineated the IRON, BRONZE, CLAY, SILVER, GOLD = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE sequence?


With Best Regards,
DD
 

Purity

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Melbourne
DaDad said:
To All,

Well, that makes one more who dismisses Scripture as irrelevant to their Doctrines. Is there ANYONE who can explain why GOD delineated the IRON, BRONZE, CLAY, SILVER, GOLD = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE sequence?


With Best Regards,
DD
smack-self-in-the-head.gif
 
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DaDad

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Sep 28, 2012
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To All,

Who is that mocks? Are we not called to preach and defend Scripture?

2 Timothy 4:2
2 preach the word, be urgent in season and out of season, convince, rebuke, and exhort, be unfailing in patience and in teaching. 3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings, 4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander into myths. 5 As for you, always be steady, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfil your ministry.





DaDad said:
To All,

Well, that makes one more who dismisses Scripture as irrelevant to their Doctrines. Is there ANYONE who can explain why GOD delineated the IRON, BRONZE, CLAY, SILVER, GOLD = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE sequence?


With Best Regards,
DD

... this challenge still stands.



With Best Regards,
DD
 

Floyd

Active Member
Feb 28, 2014
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Dadad: as you are aware, there are many views on many subjects from scripture.
What is it that stops you spelling out your difference?
Since the short time that I have been on this Board, I have noticed quite a lot of conflict re interpretations; but not many detailed explanation's!
In my past work life as a Professional Engineer, when disputes arose, they were followed by hard brainstorming to arrive at consensus!
Why not here?
I realise that many beliefs are as "totems" to many, including myself; But of course mine are right!
Joking of course!
Regards.
Floyd.
 

DaDad

Member
Sep 28, 2012
541
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Floyd said:
Dadad: as you are aware, there are many views on many subjects from scripture.
What is it that stops you spelling out your difference?
Since the short time that I have been on this Board, I have noticed quite a lot of conflict re interpretations; but not many detailed explanation's!
In my past work life as a Professional Engineer, when disputes arose, they were followed by hard brainstorming to arrive at consensus!
Why not here?
I realise that many beliefs are as "totems" to many, including myself; But of course mine are right!
Joking of course!
Regards.
Floyd.
Hi Floyd,

I believe that I have presented my view in the opening post. Others have presented a view that the Dan. 2:45 Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold, 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE sequence is relative to material hardness. Toward this I provided a citation wherein Ceramic (CLAY) can be made up to 85% the hardness of diamond (much harder than Iron). As such, this would seem to refute a hardness ranking (i.e., 5,4,3,2,1)

HARVEST PRECISION COMPONENTS
A new approach to forming and sintering ceramic material, will create a high density, single-phase ceramic material, capable of 1,000 Angstrom-level precision machining, by non-contact (hence non-damaging) Electro Chemical Machining (ECM) processes. Resulting surgical tools will be more corrosion resistant than all metal, ceramic, carbide and diamond materials used today. Tools (i.e. ophthalmologic surgical knives) will be harder than polycrystalline diamond and within 15% of the theoretical hardness of diamond materials used today.


I next proposed that the 4,3,5,2,1 sequence might possibly reflect other rankings:

1. Alphabetical
2. Brinell hardness
3. Color Spectrum
4. Density ranking (see Specific Gravity)
5. Electrical conductivity
6. FTIR absorption frequency
7. Gram molecular weight
8. Heat of Fusion
9. Insulation
10. etc.


Thus far, none have provided any viable theory as to GOD's INTELLIGENT DESIGN: Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver Gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE.


Do you have a view you wish to share?


With Best Regards,
DD
 

Retrobyter

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Shalom, Dadad.

DaDad said:
To All,

Who is that mocks? Are we not called to preach and defend Scripture?

2 Timothy 4:2
2 preach the word, be urgent in season and out of season, convince, rebuke, and exhort, be unfailing in patience and in teaching. 3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings, 4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander into myths. 5 As for you, always be steady, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfil your ministry.







... this challenge still stands.



With Best Regards,
DD
I think it is fine to mock such teaching because it is NOT "sound teaching" or "sound doctrine!" Keep the Scriptures; throw out the teacher!

I was going back through Dani'el's account of the dream of N'vukhadnetsar and its interpretation, and I believe I've found something that MIGHT help you (IF you have a teachable spirit, that is):

Daniel 2:41-43
41 Finally, you saw the feet and toes made partly of pottery clay and partly of iron; this will be a divided kingdom; yet it will have some of the firmness of iron, since you saw the iron mixed with clay from the ground. 42 Just as the toes of the feet were part iron and part clay, this kingdom will be partly strong and partly brittle. 43 You saw the iron mixed with clay; that means that they will cement their alliances by intermarriages; but they won’t stick together any more than iron blends with clay.
CJB


You keep bringing up modern ceramics and how strong they are, but this dream is NOT based on modern ceramics but on common pottery clay! Look closely at verse 42: The order here is important as the order gives the analogy:

part iron : part clay :: partly strong : partly brittle.

It is the CLAY that is considered brittle while the IRON is considered strong, not the reverse!