Daniel 10

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Poppin

New Member
Jan 16, 2014
241
14
0
Chapter 8 - Media/Persia and Greece - Antiochus Epiphanes.
Chapter 9 - 70 consecutive weeks (7 years each) and a list of accomplishments for the restoration of Israel; Messiah cut off; and Jerusalem's destruction.

The Israel of God is believing Israel expanded (one cultivated olive tree - one people - jews and gentiles no distinction).

---

Daniel Chapter 10
http://biblehub.com/esv/daniel/10.htm - Chapter 10

Daniel 10:14
"Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days."

So, what does it mean: "the latter days" and "the vision is for many days"?

This is either about the end of the Old Covenant (Mosaic/Sinai) and destruction of Jerusalem - or it is about the end-times (future to us). Thoughts?

God Bless you all
Poppin


Hebrews 1
1God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
 

DaDad

Member
Sep 28, 2012
541
3
18
Hi Poppin,

Have you considered that statement in context with Dan 12:4 & Dan 12:9?


With Best Regards,
DD
 

Poppin

New Member
Jan 16, 2014
241
14
0
DaDad said:
Hi Poppin,

Have you considered that statement in context with Dan 12:4 & Dan 12:9?


With Best Regards,
DD

Daniel 12:4 (NIV)
4 But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.”

the time of the end - of the 70 weeks (and beyond to the desolation of Jerusalem).

Many will go here and there to increase knowledge -

Now these things happened to them as an example, but they were written down for our instruction, on whom the end of the ages has come. - 1 Corinthians 10:11

But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth." - Acts 1:8

But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did: "Their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world." - Romans 10:18

First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world. - Romans 1:8

And do this, understanding the present time: The hour has already come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. - Romans 13:11

The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. - Romans 13:12

In the same way, the gospel is bearing fruit and growing throughout the whole world - Colossians 1:6

The Lord's message rang out from you not only in Macedonia and Achaia--your faith in God has become known everywhere. Therefore we do not need to say anything about it - 1 Thessalonians 1:8

And when they could not find them, they dragged Jason and some of the brothers before the city authorities, shouting, “These men who have turned the world upside down have come here also, - Acts 17:6

in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last. - 1 Thessalonians 2:16

Hebrews 1:2
And now in these final days, he has spoken to us through his Son. God promised everything to the Son as an inheritance, and through the Son he created the universe.
----

Daniel 12:9
He replied, "Go your way, Daniel, because the words are rolled up and sealed until the time of the end.

The end of the 70 weeks.
Jesus opened that scroll.
And explained it.
It is not sealed and hasn`t been since the Ascension.

Revelation 5
1I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a book written inside and on the back, sealed up with seven seals. 2And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, "Who is worthy to open the book and to break its seals?" 3And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the book or to look into it.

that Book was the Covenant Curses poured out on Mystery Babylon the Great Harlot; her people within the walls during the siege; and the total end of the Mosaic system. forever. The BETTER covenant came.
 

DaDad

Member
Sep 28, 2012
541
3
18
Poppin said:
Daniel 12:4 (NIV)
4 But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.”

the time of the end - of the 70 weeks (and beyond to the desolation of Jerusalem).

Hi Poppin,

Ummmm, we're still here, and Jesus still hasn't come. Do you think the time of the end might be approximate to when Jesus returns?


With Best Regards,
DD
 

Poppin

New Member
Jan 16, 2014
241
14
0
DaDad said:
Hi Poppin,

Ummmm, we're still here, and Jesus still hasn't come. Do you think the time of the end might be approximate to when Jesus returns?


With Best Regards,
DD
if you go back to Daniel chapter 9 you will discover what the time is the end is.
the end of the 70 weeks and that which was dereed was poured out.
the whole of the book is about Daniel's prayer for forgiveness for his people and God's response.
70 weeks 490 years that parts over
 

Retrobyter

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2011
1,783
45
48
66
Tampa Bay, Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Shabbat shalom, Poppin.

Poppin said:
if you go back to Daniel chapter 9 you will discover what the time is the end is.
the end of the 70 weeks and that which was dereed was poured out.
the whole of the book is about Daniel's prayer for forgiveness for his people and God's response.
70 weeks 490 years that parts over
Nope. PART of it is over, but not all.
 

Poppin

New Member
Jan 16, 2014
241
14
0
if you go back to Daniel chapter 9 you will discover what the time is the end is.
the end of the 70 weeks and that which was dereed was poured out.
the whole of the book is about Daniel's prayer for forgiveness for his people and God's response.
70 weeks 490 years that parts over

Retrobyter said:
Shabbat shalom, Poppin.


Nope. PART of it is over, but not all.
Yes, it is.
All over.
It makes me wonder why - people seem to really WANT some great tribulation and persecution of jews.
it's like the holocaust - should we not rejoice that 6 million didn't die? that the actual figure now accepted by ALL jewish historians is much much lower?
Poppin
 

DaDad

Member
Sep 28, 2012
541
3
18
Poppin said:
if you go back to Daniel chapter 9 you will discover what the time is the end is.

Hi Poppin,

Actually, Daniel 9 has NOTHING to do with Chapters 10, 11, & 12. These Chapters are respective to themselves,

The ONLY (and CRITICAL) Chapter which provides insight is Chapter 1.




And of course, ALL prophetic Chapters are end-time, -- which is to say, approximate to 1948. -- But please be aware that Chapters 2, 8, & 11 must transcend world history, as each arrive to the era approximate to 1948.

With Best Regards,
DD
 

Poppin

New Member
Jan 16, 2014
241
14
0
DaDad said:
Hi Poppin,
Actually, Daniel 9 has NOTHING to do with Chapters 10, 11, & 12. These Chapters are respective to themselves,
Nope.
DaDad said:
Hi Poppin,
Actually, Daniel 9 has NOTHING to do with Chapters 10, 11, & 12. These Chapters are respective to themselves,

The ONLY (and CRITICAL) Chapter which provides insight is Chapter 1.
That`s odd.
I get insight from all 12.
DaDad said:
H
And of course, ALL prophetic Chapters are end-time, -- which is to say, approximate to 1948.
Nope. Not even close. 1948 has nothing to do with it.
DaDad said:
But please be aware that Chapters 2, 8, & 11 must transcend world history, as each arrive to the era approximate to 1948.

With Best Regards,
DD
Handy.
 

DaDad

Member
Sep 28, 2012
541
3
18
DaDad said:
The ONLY (and CRITICAL) Chapter which provides insight is Chapter 1.
The concept is fairly simple:
  1. In Daniel 10:1, we are told that Cyrus was in his THIRD year as King of the PERSIANS.
  2. By Daniel 1:21, Cyrus had CONQUERED the Babylonians, and was now KING CYRUS, over Daniel.
Now understanding that Chapter 10 is stiil under the Babylonian Empire, we eventually arrive to Dan. 11:1, which states that Daniel had to confirm and strengthen Darius the Mede, who was the LAST Babylonian King:

Daniel 11:1
And as for me, in the first year of Darius the Mede, I stood up to confirm and strengthen him.


And for context:

Proverbs 31:6
Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.

Matt. 27:34
they offered him wine to drink, mingled with gall; but when he tasted it, he would not drink it.

So why would Daniel feel compelled to have to "strengthen" a conqueror, as the commentators would ignorantly lead us to believe? Does Scripture say to offer strong drink to a CONQUEROR? Does History account for such actions?


If you are the last Babylonian King (Ref. Dan. 9:2) and the Medo/Persian army is diverting the life blood of your city (by diverting the great river Euphrates), then you might find yourself in a FIGHT to protect your only connection to the LIVING GOD:
  1. King Nabonidus was off with the armies, expanding the Babylonian Empire, leaving his son Belshazzar in charge.
  2. When Cyrus started his attack on the city of Babylon, instead of sending messengers to raise an army, Belshazzar declared a FEAST.
  3. The nobles knew that their futures were at risk with Belshazzar making foolish decisions.
  4. The nobles conspired and succeeded in assassinating the idiot son, and appointed in his place someone who might placate the Medo/Persians under Cyrus, -- another Median --, Darius.
  5. When the nobles realized that Darius depended upon Daniel's council, they conspired against Daniel, so that THEIR council was foremost.
  6. When Darius realized he had been duped (by obeying his ancestrial conventions) he tried his best to save Daniel and sleep fled from him as he considered his future without a connection to the LIVING GOD.
  7. When Daniel was still alive the next morning, Darius was so enraged against the nobles that he threw them and their families into the Lion's den.
  8. And Daniel continued in his service to Darius the Babylonian, and Cyrus the Persian:
Dan. 6:28
So this Daniel prospered during the reign of Darius and the reign of Cyrus the Persian.

(Please note that the text says "the Persian", singular, versus what many ignorantly suppose was "the Persians", plural, as their presumptive doctrines would have demanded.


And so Daniel Chapter 1 provides the context for Chapters 10 & 11, which support a Babylonian era in the text of Dan. 10:1, Dan. 11:1, and in the sequence of world empires in Dan. 11:2. (Please note that a conquering army needs a 4:1 to 10:1 ratio before engaging. As such, in Chapter 10 we find that Cyrus was pre-eminent, but HE HAD NOT YET CONQUERED the Babylonian City.



With Best Regards,
DD
 

Retrobyter

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2011
1,783
45
48
66
Tampa Bay, Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Shalom, DaDad.

DaDad said:
The concept is fairly simple:
  1. In Daniel 10:1, we are told that Cyrus was in his THIRD year as King of the PERSIANS.
  2. By Daniel 1:21, Cyrus had CONQUERED the Babylonians, and was now KING CYRUS, over Daniel.
Now understanding that Chapter 10 is stiil under the Babylonian Empire, we eventually arrive to Dan. 11:1, which states that Daniel had to confirm and strengthen Darius the Mede, who was the LAST Babylonian King:

Daniel 11:1
And as for me, in the first year of Darius the Mede, I stood up to confirm and strengthen him.


And for context:

Proverbs 31:6
Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.

Matt. 27:34
they offered him wine to drink, mingled with gall; but when he tasted it, he would not drink it.

So why would Daniel feel compelled to have to "strengthen" a conqueror, as the commentators would ignorantly lead us to believe? Does Scripture say to offer strong drink to a CONQUEROR? Does History account for such actions?


If you are the last Babylonian King (Ref. Dan. 9:2) and the Medo/Persian army is diverting the life blood of your city (by diverting the great river Euphrates), then you might find yourself in a FIGHT to protect your only connection to the LIVING GOD:
  1. King Nabonidus was off with the armies, expanding the Babylonian Empire, leaving his son Belshazzar in charge.
  2. When Cyrus started his attack on the city of Babylon, instead of sending messengers to raise an army, Belshazzar declared a FEAST.
  3. The nobles knew that their futures were at risk with Belshazzar making foolish decisions.
  4. The nobles conspired and succeeded in assassinating the idiot son, and appointed in his place someone who might placate the Medo/Persians under Cyrus, -- another Median --, Darius.
  5. When the nobles realized that Darius depended upon Daniel's council, they conspired against Daniel, so that THEIR council was foremost.
  6. When Darius realized he had been duped (by obeying his ancestrial conventions) he tried his best to save Daniel and sleep fled from him as he considered his future without a connection to the LIVING GOD.
  7. When Daniel was still alive the next morning, Darius was so enraged against the nobles that he threw them and their families into the Lion's den.
  8. And Daniel continued in his service to Darius the Babylonian, and Cyrus the Persian:
Dan. 6:28
So this Daniel prospered during the reign of Darius and the reign of Cyrus the Persian.

(Please note that the text says "the Persian", singular, versus what many ignorantly suppose was "the Persians", plural, as their presumptive doctrines would have demanded.


And so Daniel Chapter 1 provides the context for Chapters 10 & 11, which support a Babylonian era in the text of Dan. 10:1, Dan. 11:1, and in the sequence of world empires in Dan. 11:2. (Please note that a conquering army needs a 4:1 to 10:1 ratio before engaging. As such, in Chapter 10 we find that Cyrus was pre-eminent, but HE HAD NOT YET CONQUERED the Babylonian City.



With Best Regards,
DD
Aren't we getting enough textbook re-writes without you attempting to re-write history, too? As Caesar said, "Et tu, Brute?" Latin for "And you, Brutus?" as Brutus stabbed him last with his own dagger. Must we get a re-write of Daryavesh (Darius I) the Great from you, too?! He was a king of MEDO-PERSIA, not of the empire of Babylon. HE went in with his troops and "conquered" the city (without much of a fight), Bavel or Babylon! THAT'S how he became its king!

Wikipedia says,...

Darius I (Old Persian: Dārayava(h)uš; New Persian: داریوش یکم هخامنشی c. 550–486 BCE) was the third king of the Persian Achaemenid Empire. Also called Darius the Great, he ruled the empire at its peak, when it included much of West Asia, the Caucasus, Central Asia, parts of the Balkans (Bulgaria-Pannonia), portions of north and northeast Africa including Egypt (Mudrâya),[1] eastern Libya, coastal Sudan, Eritrea, as well as most of Pakistan, the Aegean Islands and northern Greece / Thrace-Macedonia.
Darius is mentioned in the Biblical books of Ezra, Nehemiah, Daniel, Haggai, and Zechariah.
Darius ascended the throne by overthrowing Gaumata, the alleged magus usurper of Bardiya with the assistance of six other Persian noble families; Darius was crowned the following morning. The new king met with rebellions throughout his kingdom and quelled them each time. A major event in Darius's life was his expedition to punish Athens and Eretria for their aid in the Ionian Revolt and subjugate Greece. Darius expanded his empire by conquering Thrace and Macedon and invading Scythia, home of the Scythians, nomadic tribes who invaded Media and had previously killed Cyrus the Great.
Darius organized the empire by dividing it into provinces and placing satraps to govern it. He organized a new uniform monetary system, along with making Aramaic the official language of the empire. Darius also worked on construction projects throughout the empire, focusing on Susa, Pasargadae, Persepolis, Babylon and Egypt. Darius devised a codification of laws for Egypt. He also had the cliff-face Behistun Inscription carved, an autobiography of great modern linguistic significance. Darius also started many massive architectural projects, including magnificent palaces in Persepolis and Susa.
Then, Ancient History Encyclopedia also says,...

Darius I "the Great" (549-486 BCE) was a king of Persia who ruled for 35 years, from September 522 BCE to October 486 BCE. He was the third Achaemenian king and was considered by many to be “the greatest of the Achaemenian kings.” During his reign, Darius completed the work of his predecessors, and not only did he “hold together the empire,” but he also extended it in all directions. Thus, with Darius as Great King, Achaemenian Persia became the largest empire in the world.
Darius was responsible for more than just the expansion of the empire. He also centralized the administration of the empire, encouraged cultural and artistic pursuits, introduced legal reforms, and developed juridical systems. In addition, many large building projects were started under Darius’ rule, including the construction of a new capital city called Persepolis.
As much as Darius’ reign can be characterized by these achievements, it can also be characterized by a number of upheavals and battles, and general unrest among the citizens. There were two revolts in Babylonia and three in Susania. The Ionian Revolt lasted from 499 to 493 BCE and was a large-scale rebellion by many regions of Asia Minor against Persian rule.
LEARN from History; don't facilitate in RE-WRITING IT!
 

DaDad

Member
Sep 28, 2012
541
3
18
Retrobyter said:
Must we get a re-write of Daryavesh (Darius I) the Great
Hi Retrobyter,

Aparently you have confused "Smith", with Smith, Smith, Smith, Smith, and Smith.

Did you think there was only one "Smith"?

1. Darius the Mede, who History cannot account for. Which I would argue SUPPORTS his role in HISTORY.
2. 522 - 486[SIZE=11pt] B.C.[/SIZE] Darius I (Hystaspes)
3. [SIZE=12pt]423 - 404[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] B.C.[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] Darius II Nothus (Ochus)[/SIZE]
4. [SIZE=12pt]338 - (330)[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] B.C.[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] Darius III (Codomanus)[/SIZE]

Please do not be so hasty as to ignore Scripture AND History, and in the process, make the same mistake (Ref. #1) as the commentators.


With Best Regards,
DD