The True Israel, He will rule as God

Shalom, Rocky Wiley.

Rocky Wiley said:

Israel, He will rule as God

In the Old Testament Jacob was given the symbolic name Israel, but the true Israel was yet to come.

Israel - yiśrâ'êl
yis-raw-ale'
From H8280 and H410; he will rule as God; Jisrael, a symbolical name of Jacob; also (typically) of his posterity: - Israel.

The children of Abraham are the children of faith, the savior of the children of Abraham is Jesus and is the ‘true Israel of God’. When the bible is speaking of salvation, it speaks about those of faith.

In the New Testament Israel can be the land, the natural children and/or the children of faith. We must determine which is which. Many verses are clear, but some we must determine by what agrees with scripture.

G2474
É̓óñáḉë
Israēl
is-rah-ale'
Of Hebrew origin [H3478]; Israel (that is, Jisrael), the adopted name of Jacob, including his descendants (literally or figuratively): - Israel.

Hos 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.
When Israel (he that will rule as God) was a child, came out of Egypt.

Exo 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
Israel (he that will rule as God) is my son and my first born.

New Testament scriptures that speak of the ‘True Israel’
Mat 2:14 When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:
Mat 2:15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

Children of Israel
Luk 1:16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.
Many (not all) of the children of Israel.

Land of Israel
Mat 2:20 Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child's life.

Children, natural and spiritual spoken of in the same verse.
Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
They are not all Israel (children of faith) which are of Israel (Jacob).

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
All Israel (children of faith) shall be saved while the others (natural) are turned away.

Fulness of the Gentiles
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
Rom 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
What is the fulness of the Gentiles?

Joh 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Eph 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

The answer is - Love and the knowledge of Christ and his New Covenant.


Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Salvation is for Jew and Gentile.

Click to expand...

First of all, a minor point: your Greek lettering didn't come through well. For me, the Greek of "Israel" came out like "Eonace" with additional accents and markings. I just usually forget about trying to render the Hebrew and Greek lettering and stick with the transliterations italicized.

Second, your source says that the interpretation of "Isra'el" is "he will rule as God." That's not right. The BEST way to understand the meaning of the name is to go back to the origin of that name and look at WHY he was so named:

Genesis 32:22-32
22 And he rose up that night, and took his two wives, and his two womenservants, and his eleven sons, and passed over the ford Jabbok.
23 And he took them, and sent them over the brook, and sent over that he had.
24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
31 And as he passed over Penuel the sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh.
32 Therefore the children of Israel eat not of the sinew which shrank, which is upon the hollow of the thigh, unto this day: because he touched the hollow of Jacob's thigh in the sinew that shrank.
KJV
OT:3478 Yisraa'eel (yis-raw-ale'); from OT:8280 and OT:410; he will rule as God; Jisrael, a symbolical name of Jacob; also (typically) of his posterity: -Israel.

OT:8280 saaraah (saw-raw'); a primitive root; to prevail:
KJV - have power (as a prince).

OT:410 'eel (ale); shortened from OT:352; strength; as adjective, mighty; especially the Almighty (but used also of any deity):
KJV - God (god), goodly, great, idol, might (-y one), power, strong. Compare names in "-el."

OT:352 'ayil (ah'-yil); from the same as OT:193; properly, strength; hence, anything strong; specifically a chief (politically); also a ram (from his strength); a pilaster (as a strong support); an oak or other strong tree:
KJV - mighty (man), lintel, oak, post, ram, tree.

OT:193 'uwl (ool); from an unused root meaning to twist, i.e. (by implication) be strong; the body (as being rolled together); also powerful:
KJV - mighty, strength.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

(And, yes, "Sarah" means "princess" and "Prince of peace" in Hebrew is "Sar shalom.")

Yisraa'eel in Hebrew is spelled yod-chireq-sin-sheva-reish-qamets-alef-tsere-lamed. (The portions that are italicized are the vowel pointing. Only the boldfaced letters are true Hebrew letters.) The fundamental, root word within this name is "S-R" or "sar." The word means "prince" or "winner." That's what "to prevail" means; it means "to win." The whole name means...

Yi- = He-is
SRaa- = a-winner
'Eel = of-God.

Ya`aqov's original name, spelled "yod-patach-ayin-patach-qof-cholam-vet," means "supplanter" or "trickster" or literally "heel-grabber."

OT:3290 Ya`aqoV (yah-ak-ove'); from OT:6117; heel-catcher (i.e. supplanter); Jaakob, the Israelitish patriarch:
KJV - Jacob.

OT:6117 aaqaV (aw-kav'); a primitive root; properly, to swell out or up; used only as denominative from OT:6119, to seize by the heel; figuratively, to circumvent (as if tripping up the heels); also to restrain (as if holding by the heel):
KJV - take by the heel, stay, supplant, utterly.

OT:6118 `eeqeV (ay'-kev); from OT:6117 in the sense of OT:6119; a heel, i.e. (figuratively) the last of anything (used adverbially, for ever); also result, i.e. compensation; and so (adverb with preposition or relatively) on account of:
KJV - because, by, end, for, if, reward.
OT:6119 `aaqeeV (aw-kave'); or (feminine) `iqqeVaah (ik-kev-aw'); from OT:6117; a heel (as protuberant); hence, a track; figuratively, the rear (of an army):
KJV - heel, [horse-] hoof, last, lier in wait [by mistake for OT:6120], (footstep.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

His original name means...

Ya- = He-is
`aqoV = a-grabber-of-heels.

It would be like us saying, "He trips people up; he doesn't fight fairly; he CHEATS!"

So, Ya`aqov went from being a CHEATER to God's WINNER!

So, in that regard, I don't have a problem at all with you saying that Yeshua` (Jesus) was God's true winner! He certainly is! However, you've got it wrong to dismiss Isra'el (Ya`aqov) from the name - his OWN name, btw; he ALSO is at least A winner of God - one of God's MANY human winners! Yeshua` didn't REPLACE Yisra`el as a "true Yisra'el"; He merely became ANOTHER Yisra'el, although admittedly superior to the first!

However, when you come to your interpretation of Romans, you are having MAJOR difficulties. First of all, you're pulling verses out of context willy-nilly, and you're writing them in a strange order: Romans 9:6; 11:26; 11:25; 11:11, 12; and 2:10 and 11?! Secondly, any of the questions you rhetorically ask as pretexts are answered IF you just review all of chapters 9 through 11 IN THE ORDER IN WHICH THEY WERE WRITTEN!

I can see THREE GLARING ERRORS that, when corrected, will help you to better understand the passage.

FIRST, "of Israel" does NOT mean natural Israel (Jacob) while "all Israel" refers to the spiritual "children of faith" in 9:6! Where'd you get such a WACKY idea?! Ideally, one should go back to the Greek to be sure of this verse's meaning, but if you have to, at least go to a different version to help you see what's really going on, because you've misunderstood what was written:

Romans 9:6-7
6 Ouch hoion de hoti ekpeptooken ho logos tou Theou. Ou gar pantes hoi ex Israeel houtoi Israeel:
7 oud’ (oude) hoti eisen sperma Abraam pantes tekna, all’ (alla), “En Isaak kleetheesetai soi sperma.”
Greek New Testament (UBS)

6 Ouch = 6 Not
hoion = so
de = but
hoti = that/because
ekpeptooken = has-been-driven-off-course
ho = the
logos = Word
tou = of-the
Theou. = God.
Ou = Not
gar = for
pantes = all/everyone
hoi = the
ex = out-from
Israeel = Yisra’el/Isra’el
houtoi = they
Israeel: = of-Yisra’el/Isra’el:
7 oud’ (oude) = 7 Neither/Nor
hoti = that/because
eisen = they-are
sperma = seed/sperm
Abraam = of-Avraham/Abraham
pantes = all
tekna, = children
all’ (alla), = but,
“En = “In
Isaak = Yitschaq/Isaac
kleetheesetai = shall-be-called
soi = your (singular) = thy
sperma.” = seed/sperm.”

6 Not so but that/because has-been-driven-off-course the Word of-the God. Not for all/everyone the out-from Yisra’el/Isra’el they of-Yisra’el/Isra’el:
7 Neither/Nor that/because they-are seed/sperm of-Avraham/Abraham all children but, “In Yitschaq/Isaac shall-be-called your (singular)/thy seed/sperm.”

6 But not so that the Word of God has been driven off course. For not everyone out from Isra’el [are] they of-Isra’el:
7 Nor because they are seed of Avraham all children but, “In Yitschaq shall be called thy seed.”

I included verse 7 because it is important to see the relationship between these two verses. They are synchronous in the form “A is to B like C is to D,” letting A = "they out from Isra'el," B = "they of Isra'el," C = "seed of Avraham," and D = "children of God's promise, the heirs."

Now, look at verse 8:

Romans 9:8
8 Tout’ (Toute) estin, ou ta tekna tees saros tauta tekna tou Theou alla ta tekna tees epaggelias logizetai eis sperma.
Greek New Testament (UBS)

8 Tout’ (Toute) = 8 That
estin, = is,
ou = not
ta = the
tekna = children
tees = of-the
sarkos = flesh
tauta = these
tekna = children
tou = of-the
Theou = God
alla = but
ta = the
tekna = children
tees = of-the
epaggelias = promise
logizetai = are-counted
eis = into
sperma. = seed/sperm.

8 That is, not the children of-the flesh these children of-the God but the children of-the promise are-counted into seed/sperm.

8 That is, the children of the flesh not these children of God but the children of the promise are counted into seed (the heirs).

The children of the flesh in Avraham’s case was Yishma’el (Ishmael), because he was an attempt by Avraham and Sarah to “help God out” and produce an heir by natural means. The children of the promise in Avraham’s case was Yitschaq (Isaac), because he was God’s gift by supernatural means to produce an heir for Avraham (100) and Sarah (90) to fulfill God’s promise of seed. Yitschaq really WAS the son of both Avraham and Sarah and not just of Avraham through a proxy for Sarah, Sarah’s handmaid Hagar. Sarah, being 90 years old, was past menopause, and naturally speaking, would not produce a haploid gamete, an ovum. Men can produce gametes until the day they die! That's why Sarah suggested the proxy.

Thus, in the same way, “they of Isra’el” are the children of promise. “They out from Isra’el” are those who belong to Isra’el, not that they come out of Isra’el necessarily, but that they come out of the children of Isra’el as a nation. There were likewise human attempts to “help God out” in naturalistic ways that were rejected by God because they were not children of the promise!

The analogy must be maintained in order for this passage to make any sense!

SECOND, you're not understanding that Romans 11:11-12 is NOT talking about the same "fulness" as is Romans 11:25! Look again at Romans 11:11-12:

Romans 11:11-12
11 “In that case, I say, isn’t it that they have stumbled with the result that they have permanently fallen away?” Heaven forbid! Quite the contrary, it is by means of their stumbling that the deliverance has come to the Gentiles, in order to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Moreover, if their stumbling is bringing riches to the world — that is, if Isra’el’s being placed temporarily in a condition less favored than that of the Gentiles is bringing riches to the latter — how much greater riches will Isra’el in its fullness bring them!
CJB

This is not talking about the GENTILES' "fullness"; it's talking about ISRA'EL'S "fullness!" If <Isra'el's fall> brings <Gentiles' riches>, then what will <Isra'el's fullness> bring to the Gentiles? It will bring <Gentiles' GREATER riches>!

The fullness of the Gentiles is when the times of the Gentiles has been filled. Look at verse 25 in context:

Romans 11:19-29
19 So you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 True, but so what? They were broken off because of their lack of trust. However, you keep your place only because of your trust. So don’t be arrogant; on the contrary, be terrified! 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he certainly won’t spare you! 22 So take a good look at God’s kindness and his severity: on the one hand, severity toward those who fell off; but, on the other hand, God’s kindness toward you — provided you maintain yourself in that kindness! Otherwise, you too will be cut off! 23 Moreover, the others, if they do not persist in their lack of trust, will be grafted in; because God is able to graft them back in. 24 For if you were cut out of what is by nature a wild olive tree and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these natural branches be grafted back into their own olive tree!
25 For, brothers, I want you to understand this truth which God formerly concealed but has now revealed, so that you won’t imagine you know more than you actually do. It is that stoniness, to a degree, has come upon Isra’el, until the Gentile world enters in its fullness; 26 and that it is in this way that all Isra’el will be saved. As the Tanakh says,

“Out of Tziyon will come the Redeemer;
he will turn away ungodliness from Ya‘akov
27 and this will be my covenant with them, . . .
when I take away their sins.”

28 With respect to the Good News they are hated for your sake. But with respect to being chosen they are loved for the Patriarchs’ sake, 29 for God’s free gifts and his calling are irrevocable.
CJB

THIRD, you likewise have the wrong definition for "salvation." "Salvation," particularly when being discussed in prophetic books and passages of Scripture, is talking about God's RESCUE of the Jewish people AS a people - a nation! It is NOT talking about "God's justification of an individual!" They are related, but they are NOT synonymous!

Shalom, Rocky Wiley.

Rocky Wiley said:

Retrobyter,

You put a lot on the table, so I will try to answer one at a time.


We can not ignore the fact that God said Israel (Jesus) was his son and he called him out of Egypt.

Hos 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

Mat 2:15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.
...

Click to expand...

Regarding the fulfillment of Matthew 2:15, it is important that you understand another concept first:

Consider Hebrews 7:

Hebrews 7:1-17
1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
KJV

The physical order of the family tree was:

Avraham (Abraham) -- paid tithes to --> Malkhiy-Tsedeq
Yitschaq (Isaac)
Yisra'el = Ya`aqov (Israel = Jacob)
Leviy (Levi)
- ALL THE LEVIYIYM (LEVITES = children of Leviy)
Qhaat (Kohath) - a direct son of Leviy
`Amraam (Amram)
Aharon (Aaron)
- ALL THE COHANIYM (PRIESTS = children of Aharon)

So the author of Hebrews made the following argument: Levi while still in the "loins of his ancestor" Avraham, paid tithes to Malkhiy-Tsedeq (Hebrew for "my King of Righteousness").

Thus, since Yeshua` was also a direct descendant of Yisra'eel (Israel) through His mother and an adopted son of Yosef who was also a direct descendant of Yisra'eel, then God called Yeshua` out of the land of Mizra'iym (Egypt) through his ancestor Yisra'eel while He was still in his ancestor's loins! The prophecy was fulfilled in them BOTH when God called Yisra'eel out of the land of Mizra`iym at the Exodus. That Herod died to clear the way for Yeshua` and His family to return CONFIRMED that God wanted Yisra'eel OUT of Egypt and speedily made it possible for Yeshua` to return to the Land!

Rocky Wiley said:

...

1Jn 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

...

Click to expand...

Regarding 1 John 4:9, it is important that you understand that God sent His Son, His "only-born" one. That's what the Greek word "monogenee" means!

1 John 4:9
9 En toutoo efaneroothee hee agapee tou Theou en heemin, hoti ton Huion autou ton monogenee apestalken ho Theos eis ton kosmon hina zeesoomen di’ autou.
Greek New Testament (UBS)

9 En = 9 In
toutoo = this
efaneroothee = was-revealed
hee = the
agapee = love
tou = of-the
Theou = God
en = in
heemin, = Him,
hoti = because
ton = the
Huion = Son
autou = of-Him/His
ton = the
monogenee = only-born
apestalken = sent
ho = the
Theos = God
eis = into
ton = the
kosmon = world-system
hina = so-that
zeesoomen = we-might-live
di’ (dia) = through
autou. = Him.

9 In this was-revealed the love of-the God in Him, because the Son of-Him/His the only-born sent the God into the world-system so-that we-might-live through Him.

9 God’s love was revealed in Him in this, because God sent His only born Son into the world-system so-that we-might-live through Him.

Rocky Wiley said:

...

Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
The above scripture is saying the children of the flesh, who were of Israel, are not the children of God. If they were not all flesh then there had to be others that were spiritual. We don’t know which are the spiritual, but God does.
G1537

of
å̓ê, å̓î
ek ex
ek, ex
A primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence motion or action proceeds), from, out
In conclusion, for scripture to agree with scripture,
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
all Israel, in this case, refers to the spiritual children of Israel.

One shouldn’t just pull scripture out to try to make it say something it doesn’t, but rather that one can understand what the scripture does say. This is how we rightly divide the word.

Thanks for your comments
...

Click to expand...

Regarding Romans 9:4-8, it is important for you to see the CONTRAST being described! Paul was NOT saying that the "children of the flesh" were the "natural children of Isra'el" while the "children of the promise" were the "spiritual children of Isra'el!" That is a TOTAL PERVERSION of the chapter!

Why do you think Paul quoted Genesis 21:12?!

Genesis 21:12
12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.
KJV

He was contrasting the children of YITSCHAQ (ISAAC) with the children of YISHMA'EEL (ISHMAEL)! Yitschaq was the son of the promise that God made to Avraham! Yishma'eel was the HUMAN ATTEMPT to "help God out!" Yishma'eel was the son of the flesh!

You also stopped too soon. He went on to say that it was through Ya`aqov (Jacob) and not through Esav (Esau)! There, he quoted from Genesis 25:23 and Malachi 1:2-3:

Genesis 25:23
23 And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.
KJV

Malachi 1:2-3
2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
KJV

Thus, Paul went on to say,

Romans 9:9-16
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
KJV

So, the "children of the flesh" are NOT the "natural children of Isra'el!"
The "children of the flesh" were the "children of Isaac" and the "children of the flesh" were the "children of Ishmael!" Nor was the promise through Esau but was through Jacob who was renamed to "Isra'el!"

Romans 9 doesn't rule the children of Isra'el out; it CONFIRMS them being the children of promise!

Rocky Wiley said:

...
On the second point:

I agree.

Their fulness would be the same as the Gentiles, but it would apparently come when the blinds were taken off. That would happen when they would see for themselves that their Messiah did exactly as the scriptures had said he would do. That is to destroy Jerusalem and the temple with fire at the end of time.

...

Click to expand...

Sorry, but that is wrong. It wasn't the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple that took off their blinders; it will be when Jerusalem is RESCUED at the Messiah's return that the blinders are removed! Which is easier to do, kill someone or bring someone back to life? ANYONE could kill someone else, but only the power of God can resurrect someone!

Likewise, it's not the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple that removed that "blindness in part"; it will be the RESURRECTION that will remove the "blindness!"

Rocky Wiley said:

...
Third:
Again, I agree.

It is both. Scripture below is individuals.

1Pe 1:8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
1Pe 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

Click to expand...

No. Here, your problem (in my opinion) is both your definition of "salvation" and of "souls." Not only does the word "salvation" mean "rescue," but "souls" means "lives." The "end of their faith" refers to the actual "rescue of their lives," the end when faith becomes sight! The prophets did indeed enquire and search diligently for the details of that rescue, and many wrote about it! Frankly, THESE PROPHETS are the "messengers" (the definition of "aggeloi"), translated "angels," in verse 12.

1 Peter 1:10-12
10 Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels (Greek: aggeloi = "messengers") desire to look into.
KJV

What are prophets if not messengers of God?

Rom.9:6, "...For not all (derived) from Israel, (not all) these are Israel;..." Only my two-bits. The true Israel is not composed of ll the Israelites of course, of all those who originate from (ek to indciate origin of course) Israel. All Greek to me, yet only 1st or 2nd semester stuff.

Outoi, "these are" resumes the subject with emphasis (the ol' basic repetition & hyperbaton routine) "Israel" is evidently used in two senses: First as a reference to the physical Israel from which all Jews originate, next as a reference to the spiritual Israel to which all Jews by no means belong.

This double significance is of importance because of its grammatical and contextual bearing on Rom.11:25, 26 where we again meet it. The Jews will not disappear as one might think. Other nations have disappeared; the ten tribes of the Jews themselves have left no trace. Not so the two tribes that constituted Judaism in Paul's time. They will endure until the last Gentile is brought into the Kingdom, and our Lord returns for the great judgment.

Old Jack,

btw appreciate all the good work, and thank you folks again!