After a Christian Dies

Eric E Stahl · Mar 11, 2014

After a Christian dies

When we die the Holy Spirit takes our spirit to heaven where we get a new body like Jesus had after his resurrection. See 2 Corinthians 5:1-10 KJV

2 Corinthians 5:1-10
1 For we know that if a our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven,
3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked.
4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life.
5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also f has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord.
7 For we walk by faith, not by sight.
8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

At the time of the resurrection Jesus calls up our earthly bodies after the old nature and sin are removed and our heavenly body is put on over our earthly body as a cloak. Our two bodies become one body.

1 Corinthians 15:50-57
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

In heaven we will bow before Jesus and he will judge us for reward, then we will live in heaven till the battle of Armageddon.

1 Corinthians 3:10-15
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

We spend our time in heaven resting and praising God and having a great time till we come back to earth with Jesus to defeat the antichrist and his army.

Psalm 149:4-9 KJV
4 For the LORD taketh pleasure in his people: he will beautify the meek with salvation.
5 Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them sing aloud upon their beds.
6 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand;
7 To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people;
8 To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron;
9 To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the LORD.

Revelation 19:11-21
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Retrobyter · Mar 12, 2014

Shalom, Eric.

Sorry, bro', but you have the wrong idea about when and how we get our new bodies. We get our new bodies in the RESURRECTION! The thing you should have picked up on in the above verses from the Resurrection Chapter, 1 Corinthians 15, is that our new bodies are our OLD bodies resurrected and transformed, revitalized with incorruption and immortality. They will be every bit as physical as the old bodies are, yet they will be immortal, incorruptible, and glorified - that is, shining like Moshe's (Moses') face shone in God's presence!

The difference between the "natural" bodies and the "spiritual" bodies is best seen in the Greek: The first is "psuchikos" and the second is "pneumatikos." The "psuchikos" is the body that Adam "received" when God breathed into his nostrils and the man became a living "soul" or "breather" ("psuchee"), that is, "one who breathes"; the "pneumatikos" is the body that the second Adam received when God raised Yeshua`s body and He became a LIFE-GIVING "BLASTER" ("PNEUMA"), that is "one who blows forcefully like a strong breeze or wind!"

We were created for the earth, and the earth was created to be our home. Even the New Earth is a reconstitution of the former Earth. The New Jerusalem, also called "paradeisos" or a "park of trees," will be a reformed Gan-`Eden or Garden of Eden. Instead of four rivers, there will be TWELVE rivers flowing in all four of the compass directions, three each direction! (Each one will issue out of one of the city's gates.) Within the New Jerusalem, will be the Tree of Life and the River of the Water of Life. The New Jerusalem will be our Father's House, and the New Earth will be His "Backyard!"

We do not go to some "Heaven"; we go THROUGH the heavens (the skies) to get to Isra'el and Jerusalem! The word "ouranos" (singular) and "ouranoi" (plural) simply refer to our planet's atmosphere - the sky or the skies!

Ponder on this! It's exciting! We're not as far away from our future as some envision us to be! We don't go to some far-off "Heaven"; what we call "Heaven," namely the New Jerusalem, is coming HERE!

Arnie Manitoba · Mar 12, 2014

Retrobyter said:
Ponder on this! It's exciting! We're not as far away from our future as some envision us to be! We don't go to some far-off "Heaven"; what we call "Heaven," namely the New Jerusalem, is coming HERE!

AMEN to that .... by the way .... The Heavenly Jerusalem is "up there" as we speak ..... several years ago I was "taken there" for a short visit .... plenty of angels .... I saw the "spirits" of departed Christians etc. .... they look exactly like they did down here except flawlessly perfect and beautiful ..... interesting these verses describe where I was .....

Hebrews 12:22-23 ..... But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous now made perfect,

Cant wait to go back ..... then return to earth in the Resurrection some time later

Eric E Stahl · Mar 12, 2014

Retrobyter said:
Shalom, Eric.

Sorry, bro', but you have the wrong idea about when and how we get our new bodies. We get our new bodies in the RESURRECTION! The thing you should have picked up on in the above verses from the Resurrection Chapter, 1 Corinthians 15, is that our new bodies are our OLD bodies resurrected and transformed, revitalized with incorruption and immortality. They will be every bit as physical as the old bodies are, yet they will be immortal, incorruptible, and glorified - that is, shining like Moshe's (Moses') face shone in God's presence!

The difference between the "natural" bodies and the "spiritual" bodies is best seen in the Greek: The first is "psuchikos" and the second is "pneumatikos." The "psuchikos" is the body that Adam "received" when God breathed into his nostrils and the man became a living "soul" or "breather" ("psuchee"), that is, "one who breathes"; the "pneumatikos" is the body that the second Adam received when God raised Yeshua`s body and He became a LIFE-GIVING "BLASTER" ("PNEUMA"), that is "one who blows forcefully like a strong breeze or wind!"

We were created for the earth, and the earth was created to be our home. Even the New Earth is a reconstitution of the former Earth. The New Jerusalem, also called "paradeisos" or a "park of trees," will be a reformed Gan-`Eden or Garden of Eden. Instead of four rivers, there will be TWELVE rivers flowing in all four of the compass directions, three each direction! (Each one will issue out of one of the city's gates.) Within the New Jerusalem, will be the Tree of Life and the River of the Water of Life. The New Jerusalem will be our Father's House, and the New Earth will be His "Backyard!"

We do not go to some "Heaven"; we go THROUGH the heavens (the skies) to get to Isra'el and Jerusalem! The word "ouranos" (singular) and "ouranoi" (plural) simply refer to our planet's atmosphere - the sky or the skies!

Ponder on this! It's exciting! We're not as far away from our future as some envision us to be! We don't go to some far-off "Heaven"; what we call "Heaven," namely the New Jerusalem, is coming HERE!

Retrobyter,

When we die our spirit leaves the body and is taken to heaven where we are given a new house for our spirit. At the resurrection our heavenly body with our spirit will be put on our changed earth ly bodies.

2 Corinthians 5:1-10
1For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
5Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7(For we walk by faith, not by sight

8We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Bible_Gazer · Mar 12, 2014

why would you resurrect a dead body even if any exist at all for some.
Paul said we get a new heavenly body as the verses was quoted.
You will neither be male of female, we are to be like the angels.

I don't read where two bodies merges together.
Your spirit as said - which is you anyway is in heaven.
why would God care about a body resurrection from earth, nothing in it.

Will God resurrect bodies out of the ground or will he just speak it back into existence on top of the ground somewhere ?
Not everybody is buried in the ground.

Raeneske · Mar 12, 2014

Eric E Stahl said:
Retrobyter,

When we die our spirit leaves the body and is taken to heaven where we are given a new house for our spirit. At the resurrection our heavenly body with our spirit will be put on our changed earth ly bodies.

2 Corinthians 5:1-10
1For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
5Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7(For we walk by faith, not by sight
8We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

The Scriptures do not tell us that we are taken to heaven when we die. The Bible says we are resurrected with new bodies, not that we become separated from our bodies at the moment of death, and then come back down to receive new bodies.

1 Corinthians 15:35-36 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

That which is sown is not quickened, except it dies. That which is sown within us, is not quickened, except the body and/or nature dies. I say and/or because I want to point out those who will never taste bodily death. Those who have denied their sinful nature completely have died to self. We sow in the earthly body.

1 Corinthians 15:42-44 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

There is a natural body and there is a spiritual body. We sow seed in our natural body, and are raised a spiritual body. We are raised a spiritual body. Dying does not make the human become a disembodied spirit. We return to the dust of the ground from which we are made when we die.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Job 27:3 All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;

Job 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Job 34:14-15 If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath; 15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

Our flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. We must put on immortality first, which does not happen until the resurrection. (1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.) Then will death be swallowed up in victory.

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

1 Corinthians 15:53-57 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Now, this earthly tabernacle, is our current body. And as Paul says, we desire to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven. And when are we clothed upon? When mortality is swallowed up. This is the resurrection, not when the Christian dies. This is why Paul says to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. When we are absent from this earthly tabernacle, when our bodies are changed, which happens at the resurrection, it is THEN that we shall be present with the Lord.

2 Corinthians 5:1-4 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

2 Corinthians 5:6-8 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Eric E Stahl · Mar 12, 2014

Raeneske said:
The Scriptures do not tell us that we are taken to heaven when we die. The Bible says we are resurrected with new bodies, not that we become separated from our bodies at the moment of death, and then come back down to receive new bodies.

1 Corinthians 15:35-36 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

That which is sown is not quickened, except it dies. That which is sown within us, is not quickened, except the body and/or nature dies. I say and/or because I want to point out those who will never taste bodily death. Those who have denied their sinful nature completely have died to self. We sow in the earthly body.

1 Corinthians 15:42-44 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

There is a natural body and there is a spiritual body. We sow seed in our natural body, and are raised a spiritual body. We are raised a spiritual body. Dying does not make the human become a disembodied spirit. We return to the dust of the ground from which we are made when we die.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Job 27:3 All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;

Job 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Job 34:14-15 If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath; 15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

Our flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. We must put on immortality first, which does not happen until the resurrection. (1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.) Then will death be swallowed up in victory.

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

1 Corinthians 15:53-57 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Now, this earthly tabernacle, is our current body. And as Paul says, we desire to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven. And when are we clothed upon? When mortality is swallowed up. This is the resurrection, not when the Christian dies. This is why Paul says to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. When we are absent from this earthly tabernacle, when our bodies are changed, which happens at the resurrection, it is THEN that we shall be present with the Lord.

2 Corinthians 5:1-4 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

2 Corinthians 5:6-8 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

2 Corinthians 5:8
8We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

When we die, we are absent from our motal body and present with the Lord in heaven where he will give us a new body.

2 Corinthians 5:1
1For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

Bible_Gazer said:
why would you resurrect a dead body even if any exist at all for some.
Paul said we get a new heavenly body as the verses was quoted.
You will neither be male of female, we are to be like the angels.

I don't read where two bodies merges together.
Your spirit as said - which is you anyway is in heaven.
why would God care about a body resurrection from earth, nothing in it.

Will God resurrect bodies out of the ground or will he just speak it back into existence on top of the ground somewhere ?
Not everybody is buried in the ground.

2 corinthians 5:1
1For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

Our earthly body will be chaged by having the old sin nature removed and the new imortal body will be put on it at the resurrection.

1 Corinthians 15:50-53
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Bible_Gazer · Mar 12, 2014

its confusing what I am reading

Why do we need this earthly body
if you are in heaven with a new body.

If God created a new body for us to move into, why go back to your flesh body when its going to change anyway ?

I guess the real question is why come back here and get this old house, what is the purpose ?

2 Corinthians 5:1
1For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

In this verse you have two different types of houses that a spirit lives in.
I think Paul was talking when they died then in his day, they went straight to heaven, and the spirit could not be naked with out a body.

Arnie Manitoba · Mar 12, 2014

Bible_Gazer said:
why would you resurrect a dead body even if any exist at all for some.
Paul said we get a new heavenly body as the verses was quoted.
You will neither be male of female, we are to be like the angels.

I don't read where two bodies merges together.
Your spirit as said - which is you anyway is in heaven.
why would God care about a body resurrection from earth, nothing in it.

Will God resurrect bodies out of the ground or will he just speak it back into existence on top of the ground somewhere ?
Not everybody is buried in the ground.

That would seem obvious ..... why bother to resurrect the dead corpses of mankind to merge into our new bodies ?

Trouble is Jesus original body was resurrected .... thus we expect something similar .... that is why

Plus the bible talks about the graves being opened and bodies being taken up at the resurrection

For some reason God does it that way (uses our original bodies somehow)

Remember Jesus' new body looked just like him , Thomas could touch him and feel the nail scars in his hands .... yet Jesus could pass through a wall or materialize wherever he wanted

Our resurrected bodies will likely be similar

Jesus did it first (resurrection of the body) so that we could do so also

The resurrection of the literal body is fundamental to christian doctrine , we may not understand the mechanics of it , but that is beside the point.

Bible_Gazer · Mar 12, 2014

But Jesus body was not to be corrupted by decaying like Lazarus.

Other's have decayed and some are gone.

Jesus was special, nobody had a resurrection like him.
It was to show there was a resurrection of life and it was real.

Does not mean we are going to be the same way.
We are suppose to get a new body as 2Cor.5 says when our body dies.

Could there be two different groups ? -
the one goes straight to heaven and gets a new body
the other one must be waiting

Eric E Stahl · Mar 12, 2014

Bible_Gazer said:
But Jesus body was not to be corrupted by decaying like Lazarus.

Other's have decayed and some are gone.

Jesus was special, nobody had a resurrection like him.
It was to show there was a resurrection of life and it was real.

Does not mean we are going to be the same way.
We are suppose to get a new body as 2Cor.5 says when our body dies.

Could there be two different groups ? -
the one goes straight to heaven and gets a new body
the other one must be waiting

The generation still alive at the time of the rapture will be changed and their eathly body will put on Immortality in the air with Jesus. God will call our scattered bodies back together and put our heavenly bodies ,which are immortal, on our earthly bodies. Why? It is his will.

Arnie Manitoba · Mar 12, 2014

Bible_Gazer said:
But Jesus body was not to be corrupted by decaying like Lazarus.

Other's have decayed and some are gone.

Jesus was special, nobody had a resurrection like him.
It was to show there was a resurrection of life and it was real.

Does not mean we are going to be the same way.
We are suppose to get a new body as 2Cor.5 says when our body dies.

Could there be two different groups ? -
the one goes straight to heaven and gets a new body
the other one must be waiting

Jesus (body) was only in the grave for 3 days but decay would have began already

Many (old dead) human remains are no longer around ... but the bible says they will be brought back .... gathered from the ground and oceans etc

Hard for us to grasp .... but science tells us nothing on earth ever disappears completely (matter & energy) ... it only changes forms

I would expect if God created us in the first place , he is capable of recreating us again in a resurrection scenario

If it is not "ourselves" who come back to life .... what would be the purpose anyway

Raeneske · Mar 12, 2014

Eric E Stahl said:
2 Corinthians 5:8
8We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

When we die, we are absent from our motal body and present with the Lord in heaven where he will give us a new body.

2 Corinthians 5:1
1For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 corinthians 5:1
1For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

Our earthly body will be chaged by having the old sin nature removed and the new imortal body will be put on it at the resurrection.

1 Corinthians 15:50-53
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

With all due respect, in context of the conversation, Paul is not talking about what happens at the moment of death. We are not absent from our mortal body and present with the Lord until the resurrection. When shall we be clothed upon? When mortality is swallowed up of life. And when does this happen? At the resurrection.

2 Corinthians 5:1-4 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

1 Corinthians 15:52-56 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

The resurrection is being talked about here, not what happens at the very moment of death. Paul continues in 2 Corinthians:

2 Corinthians 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

When shall we be absent from the body, and present with the Lord? At the resurrection. Paul literally tells us when we shall be present with the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Paul confirms that at the resurrection that we shall ever be with the Lord at the resurrection in his first epistle to the Thessalonians. Absent from the earthly body, and in the presence of the Lord at the resurrection, not the moment of death.

The Scriptures place dead souls in their graves, not in heaven.

Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

John 5:28-29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Job 14:13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!

Eric E Stahl · Mar 13, 2014

Raeneske said:
With all due respect, in context of the conversation, Paul is not talking about what happens at the moment of death. We are not absent from our mortal body and present with the Lord until the resurrection. When shall we be clothed upon? When mortality is swallowed up of life. And when does this happen? At the resurrection.

2 Corinthians 5:1-4 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

1 Corinthians 15:52-56 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

The resurrection is being talked about here, not what happens at the very moment of death. Paul continues in 2 Corinthians:

2 Corinthians 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

When shall we be absent from the body, and present with the Lord? At the resurrection. Paul literally tells us when we shall be present with the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Paul confirms that at the resurrection that we shall ever be with the Lord at the resurrection in his first epistle to the Thessalonians. Absent from the earthly body, and in the presence of the Lord at the resurrection, not the moment of death.

The Scriptures place dead souls in their graves, not in heaven.

Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

John 5:28-29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Job 14:13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!

Our spirit is immortal our body is mortal. At the resurrection our spirit in in our heavenly body will be put on over our changed mortal body.

Since the Holy Spirit will never leave us nor forsake us, do you believe the Holy Spirit will stay in the grave with us till the resurrection?

Bible_Gazer · Mar 13, 2014

Arnie Manitoba said:
Jesus (body) was only in the grave for 3 days but decay would have began already

Many (old dead) human remains are no longer around ... but the bible says they will be brought back .... gathered from the ground and oceans etc

Hard for us to grasp .... but science tells us nothing on earth ever disappears completely (matter & energy) ... it only changes forms

I would expect if God created us in the first place , he is capable of recreating us again in a resurrection scenario

If it is not "ourselves" who come back to life .... what would be the purpose anyway

I was using the verse in
Acts 2:27
27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Lazarus had corrupted, only by knowing he was stinky.

Jesus was not stinky

Yes I know God can just speak and bring back people. - He did it with Samuel, Moses, Elijah - but I don't think he brought out of the dirt ground.

Its just seem if you are in heaven in your new body, are you looking forward to be united to your old body to be resurrected ?
Its not going to be the same body anyway when you get it.
Its suppose to change ?

Raeneske · Mar 13, 2014

Eric E Stahl said:
Our spirit is immortal our body is mortal. At the resurrection our spirit in in our heavenly body will be put on over our changed mortal body.

Since the Holy Spirit will never leave us nor forsake us, do you believe the Holy Spirit will stay in the grave with us till the resurrection?

The breath of life is God's, and that returns to Him when we die. Man is but dust, not a spirit. We are the dust of the ground and the breath of life. When we die, the breath of life returns to God. Humans are not immortal. We are the temple of the Holy Ghost. The temple dies, but the Holy Ghost does not. We are not the Holy Spirit. We also are not the spirit of life. Those who walk after the Spirit will be resurrected with a spiritual body. That is when we have a spiritual body. We are dust, and this dust has a time limit. It shall die, yea, we shall all surely die. The only ones who won't are those who are translated into the Kingdom of Heaven like Enoch and Elijah.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Job 34:14-15 If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath; 15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

1 Corinthians 15:35-36 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Bible_Gazer · Mar 13, 2014

Does the bible tells us that there is an inner man that needed strength ?

Eric E Stahl · Mar 13, 2014

Raeneske said:
The breath of life is God's, and that returns to Him when we die. Man is but dust, not a spirit. We are the dust of the ground and the breath of life. When we die, the breath of life returns to God. Humans are not immortal. We are the temple of the Holy Ghost. The temple dies, but the Holy Ghost does not. We are not the Holy Spirit. We also are not the spirit of life. Those who walk after the Spirit will be resurrected with a spiritual body. That is when we have a spiritual body. We are dust, and this dust has a time limit. It shall die, yea, we shall all surely die. The only ones who won't are those who are translated into the Kingdom of Heaven like Enoch and Elijah.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Job 34:14-15 If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath; 15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

1 Corinthians 15:35-36 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Ecclesiastes 12:5b-7
5b because man goeth to his long home (((grave))), and the mourners go about the streets:
6Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
7Then shall the dust ((our body))) return to the earth as it was: and the spirit (((our spirit not the Holy spirit))) shall return unto God who gave it.

Raeneske · Mar 14, 2014

Eric E Stahl said:
Ecclesiastes 12:5b-7
5b because man goeth to his long home (((grave))), and the mourners go about the streets:
6Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
7Then shall the dust ((our body))) return to the earth as it was: and the spirit (((our spirit not the Holy spirit))) shall return unto God who gave it.

It says God gave us that spirit. It is His spirit, which can either be the breath of life, or the Holy Spirit. It says nothing about that being a spirit which we are. Man is not a spirit, man is dust. This is virtually saying the same thing that man gives up the ghost when he dies.

Job 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?

Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

Man dies, and gives up the ghost. He lies down and does not rise, nor is he raised out of his sleep. Death is as sleep, a dreamless sleep. Man is not in heaven, and does not separate from his body at death.

Job 14:13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!

Job is declaring he will be in his grave. This says nothing about Job going to heaven, and waiting there. Far from heaven, he declares that the grave would be his house, not heaven.

Job 17:13-16 If I wait, the grave is mine house: I have made my bed in the darkness. 14 I have said to corruption, Thou art my father: to the worm, Thou art my mother, and my sister. 15 And where is now my hope? as for my hope, who shall see it? 16 They shall go down to the bars of the pit, when our rest together is in the dust.

So it is with us if we die before Jesus comes back. We wait in the grave, it is our house at death. Corruption is our father, the worm is our mother and our sister. All mankind rests together in the dust. But the righteous have a set time, and they shall be remembered, as Job shows in Job 14:13. For example, David:

Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

David is both dead, and buried. He is not in heaven. Peter freely expresses that here:

Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

David's house right now is the grave. Such is for all Christians that die. We sleep in the grave until the resurrection. There is not still some undying spark still alive in which we have full consciousness. No, when we die, our feelings and thoughts perish.

Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Psalms 146:3-4 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. 4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

rjp34652@yahoo.com · Mar 14, 2014

Retrobyter said:
Shalom, Eric.

Sorry, bro', but you have the wrong idea about when and how we get our new bodies. We get our new bodies in the RESURRECTION! The thing you should have picked up on in the above verses from the Resurrection Chapter, 1 Corinthians 15, is that our new bodies are our OLD bodies resurrected and transformed, revitalized with incorruption and immortality. They will be every bit as physical as the old bodies are, yet they will be immortal, incorruptible, and glorified - that is, shining like Moshe's (Moses') face shone in God's presence!

The difference between the "natural" bodies and the "spiritual" bodies is best seen in the Greek: The first is "psuchikos" and the second is "pneumatikos." The "psuchikos" is the body that Adam "received" when God breathed into his nostrils and the man became a living "soul" or "breather" ("psuchee"), that is, "one who breathes"; the "pneumatikos" is the body that the second Adam received when God raised Yeshua`s body and He became a LIFE-GIVING "BLASTER" ("PNEUMA"), that is "one who blows forcefully like a strong breeze or wind!"

We were created for the earth, and the earth was created to be our home. Even the New Earth is a reconstitution of the former Earth. The New Jerusalem, also called "paradeisos" or a "park of trees," will be a reformed Gan-`Eden or Garden of Eden. Instead of four rivers, there will be TWELVE rivers flowing in all four of the compass directions, three each direction! (Each one will issue out of one of the city's gates.) Within the New Jerusalem, will be the Tree of Life and the River of the Water of Life. The New Jerusalem will be our Father's House, and the New Earth will be His "Backyard!"

We do not go to some "Heaven"; we go THROUGH the heavens (the skies) to get to Isra'el and Jerusalem! The word "ouranos" (singular) and "ouranoi" (plural) simply refer to our planet's atmosphere - the sky or the skies!

Ponder on this! It's exciting! We're not as far away from our future as some envision us to be! We don't go to some far-off "Heaven"; what we call "Heaven," namely the New Jerusalem, is coming HERE!

A very clear and precise thumbnail explanation of the resurrection. The saved do not wander the sky as disembodied spirits. Such wandering is the destiny of those humans who die apart from the 2nd birth.

"They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever."
- Jude 13

The lake of fire is reserved for the devil and his angels. Black darkness is reserved for disembodied human spirits who have rejected the 2nd birth.

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

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