Is our soul immortal or mortal?

quietthinker said:

Giving up ones life to find eternal life becomes proportionate to HOW you understand/ believe the good news.
Embracing God's gift as would a trusting child, opens the Kingdom of God and giving up your life for it is its natural consequence.

Believing or creating all sorts of hoops to jump through before God's gift is available to you keeps you out of God's Kingdom because you can never be assured you have done it as you imagine you should and you can never be certain you have believed the right stuff.

Click to expand...

I’m trying to fit that together with what you seemed to be saying - that men don’t enter into eternal life until after they die and are resurrected. I believe thats most of us but that a few find it while on earth by remaining in Him. That is how I read it anyway, that it’s offered to us to enter in now.

MostlyConfused said:

I’m trying to fit that together with what you seemed to be saying - that men don’t enter into eternal life until after they die and are resurrected. I believe thats most of us but that a few find it while on earth by remaining in Him. That is how I read it anyway, that it’s offered to us to enter in now.

Click to expand...

God's Kingdom is present now and one can only enter it when one sees it.
It is Jesus' objective to open all eyes....yet ones eyes will only open when there is a willingness to see.....sometimes slowly, sometimes quickly.

John 7:17
'If anyone wants to do his will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own'.....Jesus

Bob said:

In a recent, comfortably debated post on Burial vs Cremation, @quietthinker stated it really didn’t matter since our souls expire when the body does. And yes, he assures us that he is a Christian (“I believe Jesus is the full and complete representation of his Father. . . .”).

Although there were a number of scripture citations (by @Wrangler and @Anchorite and @Angelina et al.) that are traditionally accepted to support an immortal soul, @quietthinker voiced a different, contrary perspective.

At this point, before every jumps in, I invite @quietthinker to restate his position clearly.

Remember to engage with respect! (Seek first to understand before you would be understood.)

Peace and Blessings.

Click to expand...

Lord Jesus answered that question easily, in Matthew 10:28 when He said to not fear those who can kill our body (flesh), but NOT our soul.

The idea of our soul dying when our flesh body dies is an old Jewish traditional belief. It is countered in The New Testament. Jewish converts to Christ brought it into Christianity, just like some of the Jewish converts tried to require flesh circumcision to be a Christian (Acts 15).

That Jewish tradition is also where the idea of 'soul sleep' originates. They treat the 'soul' as being like our flesh body made up of material matter when it is not, but is made up of Spirit like our spirit is. Our spirit and soul are attached to each other, and are of that other dimension of Spirit, not earthly matter.

When our flesh body dies, our spirit goes back to God Who gave it, per Eccl.12:5-7. Our soul is attached to our spirit and remains intact while our flesh goes back to the earthly elements where it came from.

Our soul with spirit is of the Heavenly dimension. Our spirit is about that other body we also have which Apostle Paul explained in 2 Corinthians 5, one made up of spirit that is 'born again' through Faith on Jesus Christ per John 3.

The idea of the soul being mortal or immortal is in a different sense than flesh thinking. It is mortal in the sense that ONLY God can destroy it in the future "lake of fire" at the "second death". It is not destroyed at flesh death (1st death). Jesus showed that those of Faith on Him will at flesh death will not see condemnation, but will have passed through death unto eternal Life.

John 5:24
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth My word, and believeth on Him That sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
KJV

Bob said:

In a recent, comfortably debated post on Burial vs Cremation, @quietthinker stated it really didn’t matter since our souls expire when the body does. And yes, he assures us that he is a Christian (“I believe Jesus is the full and complete representation of his Father. . . .”).

Although there were a number of scripture citations (by @Wrangler and @Anchorite and @Angelina et al.) that are traditionally accepted to support an immortal soul, @quietthinker voiced a different, contrary perspective.

At this point, before every jumps in, I invite @quietthinker to restate his position clearly.

Remember to engage with respect! (Seek first to understand before you would be understood.)

Peace and Blessings.

Click to expand...

I assume by immortal you mean not capable of death. No, the bible doesn't teach that.
Jesus said man can't kill the soul, but God can destroy both body and soul in Gehenna. (LOFire)-- Matthew 10:28

The fires of Gehenna refer to the complete destruction of anything. We see this a few times--

• Rev 20:9 - And they marched across the broad expanse of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. But fire came down from heaven and consumed them.
• 2 Thess 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
• 2 Thess 1:7-9 - This will take place when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in blazing fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the penalty of eternal destruction, separated from the presence of the Lord and the glory of His might
• Mal 4:1 - “For behold, the day is coming, burning like a furnace, when all the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble; the day is coming when I will set them ablaze,” says the LORD of Hosts. “Not a root or branch will be left to them.”
• Mal 4:3 - Then you will trample the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day I am preparing,” says the LORD of Hosts.
• Ps 37:20 - But the wicked and enemies of the LORD will perish like the glory of the fields. They will vanish; like smoke they will fade away.
• Ps 92:7 - that though the wicked sprout like grass, and all evildoers flourish, they will be forever destroyed.
• Phil 3:9 - Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and their glory is in their shame. Their minds are set on earthly things.
• Heb 10:39 - But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls.
• 2 Peter 2:6 - if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction, reducing them to ashes as an example of what is coming on the ungodly;
• 2 Peter 3:7 - And by that same word, the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
• Jude 7 - In like manner, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, who indulged in sexual immorality and pursued strange flesh, are on display as an example of those who sustain the punishment of eternal fire.

Continued--

PS95 said:

I assume by immortal you mean not capable of death. No, the bible doesn't teach that.
Jesus said man can't kill the soul, but God can destroy both body and soul in Gehenna. (LOFire)-- Matthew 10:28

The fires of Gehenna refer to the complete destruction of anything. We see this a few times--

• Rev 20:9 - And they marched across the broad expanse of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. But fire came down from heaven and consumed them.
• 2 Thess 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
• 2 Thess 1:7-9 - This will take place when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in blazing fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the penalty of eternal destruction, separated from the presence of the Lord and the glory of His might
• Mal 4:1 - “For behold, the day is coming, burning like a furnace, when all the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble; the day is coming when I will set them ablaze,” says the LORD of Hosts. “Not a root or branch will be left to them.”
• Mal 4:3 - Then you will trample the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day I am preparing,” says the LORD of Hosts.
• Ps 37:20 - But the wicked and enemies of the LORD will perish like the glory of the fields. They will vanish; like smoke they will fade away.
• Ps 92:7 - that though the wicked sprout like grass, and all evildoers flourish, they will be forever destroyed.
• Phil 3:9 - Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and their glory is in their shame. Their minds are set on earthly things.
• Heb 10:39 - But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls.
• 2 Peter 2:6 - if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction, reducing them to ashes as an example of what is coming on the ungodly;
• 2 Peter 3:7 - And by that same word, the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
• Jude 7 - In like manner, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, who indulged in sexual immorality and pursued strange flesh, are on display as an example of those who sustain the punishment of eternal fire.

Continued--

Click to expand...

All these references to destruction allude to the Hebrew idiom to "burn with fire" - see the appendix below.
So, the fires of hell consume completely.

APPENDIX - Burn with Fire

The expression, "Burn with fire" is a quintessentially Hebraic expression. While it is true that “burn with fire” is technically redundant, it was an expression used to convey a feeling of intensity and complete destruction, ie, not merely scorched. Here is a sample:

• Ex 12:10 - And you shall not leave any of it over until morning, but whatever is left of it until morning, you shall burn with fire [= completely destroy it]
• Ex 29:14 - But the flesh of the bull and its hide and its refuse, you shall burn with fire [= completely destroy it] outside the camp; it is a sin offering
• Lev 8:32 - The remainder of the flesh and of the bread you shall burn in the fire [= completely destroy it].
• Lev 13:57 - and if it appears again in the garment, whether in the warp or in the woof, or in any article of leather, it is an outbreak; the article with the mark shall be burned in the fire [= completely destroyed].
• Lev 16:27 - But the bull of the sin offering and the goat of the sin offering, whose blood was brought in to make atonement in the holy place, shall be taken outside the camp, and they shall burn their hides, their flesh, and their refuse in the fire. [= completely destroy it]
• Deut 7:25 - The graven images of their gods you are to burn with fire [= completely destroy it]; you shall not covet the silver or the gold that is on them, nor take it for yourselves, or you will be snared by it, for it is an abomination to the LORD your God.
• Josh 11:6 - Then the LORD said to Joshua, "Do not be afraid because of them, for tomorrow at this time I will deliver all of them slain before Israel; you shall hamstring their horses and burn their chariots with fire [= completely destroy them].
• Ps 46:9 - Then the LORD said to Joshua, "Do not be afraid because of them, for tomorrow at this time I will deliver all of them slain before Israel; you shall hamstring their horses and burn their chariots with fire [completely destroy them].
• Jer 43:13 - He will also shatter the obelisks of Heliopolis, which is in the land of Egypt; and the temples of the gods of Egypt he will burn with fire [= completely destroy].
• Eze 23:47 - The company will stone them with stones and cut them down with their swords; they will slay their sons and their daughters and burn their houses with fire [= completely destroy them].

See also Matt 3:12, Luke 3:17

See these two important exceptions to this which are not exceptions:

Ex 3:2, 3 where the LORD appeared in the burning bush and Moses was instructed to remove his sandals and no come too close or be destroyed.
Deut 5:32 discusses the mountain burning with fire (but the mountain was not burned up) showing that at the giving of the 10 commandments, anyone who came close to the mountain would be destroyed by fire
God,- perfectly Holy, is described as a “consuming fire” and sinners simply cannot stand in the presence of such a holy God.
Heb 12:29, Deut 4:24, 9:3, Ps 50:3, Isa 29:6, 30:27, 30, 33:14, Ex 24:17, etc.

Just as God breathed life into man he became a LIVING soul. He can also destroy the soul and the body with it.-- Perish--.