No Commandment to Honor Mary

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goldy

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Like everything in this life, once we have died it comes to an end. Christ honoured his Father and Mother whilst here on earth. He has died and has risen and is now with his heavenly Father. Though we are to honour our Mother and Father, we must do this in truth. We cannot honour God or our Parents if we live a life which does not put God first.If you mother told you to murder someone. God says 'thou shalt not killl'Who do you obey? You see to obey your mother would neither honour her or God in this instance. So uncerstanding and truth are required to know what is required of a believer. Holding Mary in any position where we should only hold God is false. Because there will be no marriage in the next life and we are all one body and equal members in Christ. There is no male and female in Christ. As the word of God says. God is the true immortal being not made but had always been. Therefore Mary is not and never has been the Mother of God. She was clearly the mother of the Son of God. His conception being by the power of God through the Holy Spirit. And so clearly Mary is not and never has been the mother of God. Be sure to understand what this says.Love Faithful.:naughty:
Oh boy, you just committed the same heresy as the other guy!! You separated Jesus from God. To deny that Mary was the Mother of God is to deny the divinity of Christ......unless you're a JW:)
 

Peacebewithyou

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I would like to ask the simple question as to Why you would want to pray to Mary or any other saint?1Ti 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, If Jesus is the only mediator between God and man, why would you look for another mediator?How much faith do you have in our God, if you are afraid to stand in his presents with you request. We are sons of God. We, as earthly parents, don't listen to one child more then another, but this is exactly what you are saying about my heavenly Father. You are saying, my request would have a better chance of being answered, if I was to asked through a saint. Which would mean our Father shows favoritism
Hi John,So you go to God directly in prayer, correct? That's wonderful, as we all should. Question though: Do you ever ask anyone else to pray for you when you're facing trials or struggles - Like a good friend or a family member whom you know is a prayer warrior? Or maybe people ask you for prayer? And when they ask you to pray for them do you say, "HEY - there's only ONE mediator - Jesus Christ.. don't be asking ME to pray for you!!! What's YOUR problem that you think you can't ask Him yourself!" Of course not. That would be ridicuous would actually be in violation of the scriptures that tell us to pray for one another. Likewise with Catholics. We pray to God directly. We also ask others to pray for us, including the Saints in Heaven. If you have a problem with that, you must be against asking anyone to pray for you, and I'm pretty sure you're ok with that?
 

goldy

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Hi John,So you go to God directly in prayer, correct? That's wonderful, as we all should. Question though: Do you ever ask anyone else to pray for you when you're facing trials or struggles - Like a good friend or a family member whom you know is a prayer warrior? Or maybe people ask you for prayer? And when they ask you to pray for them do you say, "HEY - there's only ONE mediator - Jesus Christ.. don't be asking ME to pray for you!!! What's YOUR problem that you think you can't ask Him yourself!" Of course not. That would be ridicuous would actually be in violation of the scriptures that tell us to pray for one another. Likewise with Catholics. We pray to God directly. We also ask others to pray for us, including the Saints in Heaven. If you have a problem with that, you must be against asking anyone to pray for you, and I'm pretty sure you're ok with that?
"For where two or more are gathered in My name, there am I in their midst"
 

Faithful

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Oh boy, you just committed the same heresy as the other guy!! You separated Jesus from God. To deny that Mary was the Mother of God is to deny the divinity of Christ......unless you're a JW:)
No I never if you do not understand 1 John 5:7 (King James Version) 7.For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.In the words and teachings of Christ then you are sadly lacking and making false accusations against a child of God.John 17:1111.And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. We are one as God and Jesus are one. Hence we are all seperate persons but one body. So if you cannot understand the easy teachings of Christ, how can you discern the more serious teachings?I have said Jesus is the Son of God, Reference this and you will see both Jesus our Lord, Peter, all the apostles including Paul called Jesus the Son of God.Now read the scripture 2 John 1:7-11 (King James Version) 7.For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. Jesus Christ is come in the flesh who do you say came in the flesh? 8.Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. 9.Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. Show me where in the teachings of Christ he says we should honour Mary above any other human being? The scripture Peter teaches,(Acts 10) " God is not a respector of persons." to put Mary on a higher parallel than any other human being believing it to be Gods will shows you call God a liar. (Hence the reason Jesus is said to be one with God but Mary was only made one with us, as Jesus and God are one. Now think seriously. 10.If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11.For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.The doctrine of Christ is the gospel message all about Christ. If Mary was to be exhalted above human status do you think the apostles would of neglected this fact? No! The word is clear.Love Faithful. :naughty:
 

goldy

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Hi goldy,Ask Jesus why He redirected that woman's gaze higher when she was blessing His mother.Ask Jesus why He said John 5:22,23. How can you honor Mary? How? She is not here to receive that "honor". Amazing how Joseph is not mentioned on the same level as Mary as far as this "honoring" goes.If no flesh shall glory in His presence in Heaven, then who can honor Mary?As much as you like to seperate honor from worship, your catechism shows me as to what the Roman Church believes in. You did not bother to read it all, did you? In it are quotes from the catechism. Those quotes are putting Mary up there with God. So how can a catholic not being accused of worshipping Mary? How many "hail Mary, full of grace.." did you "pray" to Mary for penance? How does that look to a non-believer?Really concerned for you, goldy. I don't see how you can answer those questions.
Pariah,First of all, I truly appreciate that you are concerned for me. I believe your heart is in the right place and that you are concerned for my salvation......thank you.Regarding Joseph: I think this is where you are ignorant on Catholic doctrine (and I don't mean that in a derogatory way). We definitely honor Joseph. We have a feast day in his honor, and he's also the patron saint of a happy death and earthly fathers. Personally, I pray a St. Joseph intercessory prayer everyday (I'm sure I'll get stoned for that one on this board!). We honor him in a big way. But, we also believe that he had sin.......we don't believe Mary did. I know, I know, you don't believe in this. But we do. Joseph also didn't carry Our Savior in his womb for 9 months. I think Protestants are so afraid of someone taking them away from Christ that they even refuse to honor someone close to Him. Mary TAKES us to Christ........"Do whatever he tells you". Catholics believe that EVERY passage in the bible is significant and inspired. Notice that in this passage Mary didn't say, "Don't listen to him, listen to me". Again, Mary takes us to Jesus. Please answer the questions in my first post of this thread. Honoring Mary is not rejected in the bible. Have a great day
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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To worship Mary is to reject Yahshua. And Mary can never be a "Mother of God" for it is unbiblical. Sure Mary gave birth to Yahshua, but she is NOT the "Mother of God" Why worship a dead person, when Yahshua still lives. Sure her soul goes back to the Father whom gave it, but she can't hear your prayers. We are only allowed to pray to the Heavenly Father in the name of Yahshua.
Do you realize that you just committed an ancient heresy? Now, before you stone me, here's why: By saying that Mary could never be the Mother of God, you just separated Jesus from God. Jesus WAS and IS God. Mary was the mother of Jesus, therefore she is the mother of God.This is getting ridiculous. I know you are having a complete hard time believing Truth, because you are ether blinded by the god of this world (II Corinthians 4:4) or you are either ignorant.And no, I have not committed a damnable heresy, for Mary is a sinner like we are all, (Romans 3:23) for she is not part of the Godhead (I John 5:7) and she needed her son who is God (John 1:1) to save her, as Yahshua is the Saviour of the world. (I John 4:14)Jag
 

goldy

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No I never if you do not understand 1 John 5:7 (King James Version) 7.For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.In the words and teachings of Christ then you are sadly lacking and making false accusations against a child of God.John 17:1111.And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. We are one as God and Jesus are one. Hence we are all seperate persons but one body. So if you cannot understand the easy teachings of Christ, how can you discern the more serious teachings?I have said Jesus is the Son of God, Reference this and you will see both Jesus our Lord, Peter, all the apostles including Paul called Jesus the Son of God.Now read the scripture 2 John 1:7-11 (King James Version) 7.For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. Jesus Christ is come in the flesh who do you say came in the flesh? 8.Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. 9.Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. Show me where in the teachings of Christ he says we should honour Mary above any other human being? The scripture Peter teaches,(Acts 10) " God is not a respector of persons." to put Mary on a higher parallel than any other human being believing it to be Gods will shows you call God a liar. (Hence the reason Jesus is said to be one with God but Mary was only made one with us, as Jesus and God are one. Now think seriously. 10.If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11.For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.The doctrine of Christ is the gospel message all about Christ. If Mary was to be exhalted above human status do you think the apostles would of neglected this fact? No! The word is clear.Love Faithful. :naughty:
Faithful,My apologies if you think I was making false accusations. I just thought that Jesus was God. Am I wrong there? Do you believe in the Trinity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are saying, but wouldn't that make Mary the mother of God? Is Jesus not God? And here's something else that many people miss in Luke's gospel. Sorry I don't have bible in front of me to quote the exact verse: Elizabeth greets Mary with, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee". Here's the next part that so many people miss: "AND HOW CAN it BE THAT THE MOTHER OF MY LORD SHOULD COME TO ME?" Isn't "Lord" and God meaning the same thing here? Who is this "Lord" that Elizabeth is referring to? Sounds like God to me.
 

goldy

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This is getting ridiculous. I know you are having a complete hard time believing Truth, because you are ether blinded by the god of this world (II Corinthians 4:4) or you are either ignorant.And no, I have not committed a damnable heresy, for Mary is a sinner like we are all, (Romans 3:23) for she is not part of the Godhead (I John 5:7) and she needed her son who is God (John 1:1) to save her, as Yahshua is the Saviour of the world. (I John 4:14)Jag
Please read my last post regarding the heresy. Question: What does Truth mean to you? And how am I blinded by the god of this world? I would agree that Mary needed a savior. She needed God to preserve Her from the stain of original sin. We can always agree to disagree here. But please keep it charitable. My comment wasn't an attack. But Catholics do believe that if you separate Jesus from God, you are committing a heresy by denying His divinity. But hey, maybe I'm just misunderstanding. Have a great day
 

Peacebewithyou

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I am very suprised that some people have a problem with Mary being the Mother of God. I honestly don't understand why and I'm not trying to be argumentitive, please know that I'm only trying to see your point. Although me to explain ours: Jesus was fully God and fully Man. You cannot seperate the two. In the early Church, some tried to say that he was only a Man - not God at all. That was a heresy. Some believed he was 1/2 God, 1/2 Man - that was also a heresy. Although Jesus is God the Son, he is still fully God - as is the Holy Spirit and of course God the Father. They are seperate, but three in One. There are not three Gods in heaven, but rather One. How this works (the Holy Trinity) is a mystery, but true nonetheless. Since Jesus is fully God, and Mary is His Mother, Mary is the Mother of God. Does this mean that Mary existed before God? Of course not.Does this mean that Mary is somehow equal to God. Not at all. It means she gave birth to Jesus who is God.... which makes her the Mother of God.
 

Faithful

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Faithful,My apologies if you think I was making false accusations. I just thought that Jesus was God. Am I wrong there? Do you believe in the Trinity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are saying, but wouldn't that make Mary the mother of God? Is Jesus not God? And here's something else that many people miss in Luke's gospel. Sorry I don't have bible in front of me to quote the exact verse: Elizabeth greets Mary with, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee". Here's the next part that so many people miss: "AND HOW CAN it BE THAT THE MOTHER OF MY LORD SHOULD COME TO ME?" Isn't "Lord" and God meaning the same thing here? Who is this "Lord" that Elizabeth is referring to? Sounds like God to me.
Hello Goldy,Jesus said, John 17:21.That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. Because we are one in Jesus and God as Jesus and the Father are one, does that make you or I, become God or Jesus?Jesus also taught: Mark 13:32.But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. So how are Jesus and the Father one? Thomas says also, "My Lord and my God". He did not say " My Lord God."But this is not surprising given the fact Moses taught.Deuteronomy 18:15 & 18-20. 15.The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;. 18.I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19.And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. 20.But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. Thomas knew that God himself was speaking through Christ. Hence he says,My Lord and my God. Clearly the Messiah with God speaking through him.The words of Christ is clear and he came not to do his own will but the will of him who sent me.Acts 7:56And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. We know Jesus was called the son of God and the Son of Man, but who is he stood beside on the right hand of? Jesus teachings reveal the truth. And men only perish for not having a love of truth. 2 Thessalonians 2:10 (King James Version)10.And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.Jesus like the Father God was without sin. He came from heaven to earth and was born a man, became flesh so he could die for our sins. The second and final Adam as Paul says. Be sure to know the difference between being taught by man and being taught by God. John 6:45 (King James Version)45.It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.Isaiah 54:13 (King James Version) 13.And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children.John 6:39 (King James Version)39.And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.The words of Christ are the ones we are told we must adhere to. Not anyone else, the prophtets and Christ. The good news which the disciples spread was to ensure everyone could have the opportunity of coming to Christ to be saved. The only truth, life and way for any man to come to God.Now the teachings of the trinity is a spiritual teaching not based on the understanding of flesh. Yes I believe the God the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit are one. The way Christ teaches it. And we have all been made one in them the same way. Love Faithful.ps Do you remember the serpent telling lies about Gods motives in warning Eve and Adam about death. Well think, what better way to deceive the elect that with teachings of what they must believe that cause division and judgement of others. One way Jesus says one way only, himself.:pray3:
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Pariah

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Hi goldy,
Again, Mary takes us to Jesus. Please answer the questions in my first post of this thread. Honoring Mary is not rejected in the bible. Have a great dayAgain I ask: Show me where in the bible it says you are not to specifically honor Mary? If you can't find the passage, there isn't one single Protestant who should be having problems with Catholics honoring the Mother of God
You are admitting to taking honor that should be pertaining to Jesus as the only Mediator between God and Man to Mary.
Mary TAKES us to Christ........"Do whatever he tells you". Catholics believe that EVERY passage in the bible is significant and inspired. Notice that in this passage Mary didn't say, "Don't listen to him, listen to me".
Scriptures do not say that Mary was given that office in the spiritual realm of taking people to Christ. Scriptures does say not to honor Mary or anyone else in that way That is sin.John 10: 1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep....7Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.1 Timothy 2: 5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;I did answered your question. Don't you find it significant that Jesus drew attention away from Mary twice in scriptures?And your asseration that Mary did not say this, "Don't listen to him, listen to me", is correct, but by YOU stating this is making Mary a hypocrite with your practise for how can you listen to Him if you are listening to her? How can you listen to Him if you are going in prayer to Mary? Why else would Jesus say, "Depart from me, ye that work iniquity, for I never knew you."? because you were not heeding His Word and you climbed up another "way" to God.John 14: 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. So your honoring Mary is sin. Praying to the saints is sin.Praying to the angels is sin.Praying to the Holy Spirit is sin because He is in you. Offering prayers are to be offered "up". Jesus is Whom the Holy Spirit in you is testifying of and thereby glorifying the Son and thus pointing you to Jesus. If you are led by the Spirit of God, why are you not doing that?When the scriptures says Jesus is the ONLY Mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus, and that is significant as it refers to the bodily resurrected Jesus Christ Whom has ascended thus prayers are offered up unto God in the Way God the Father has provided for you cannot acess God the Father in any other Way except through Jesus. Thus.. honor the Son... you honor the Father. Honor NOT the Son, you are NOT honoring the Father. THUS the commandment is given... you are not to honor Mary if you think you are honoring God in that "way".Tell you what. Take this concern for you to Jesus in prayer. And expect an answer. Don't ask Mary, or any other saint, or even the Holy Spirit for He is in you since He is leading you to do the same thing by the scriptures... take this issue to Jesus in prayer.
 

Pariah

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Hi Peacebewithyou,
And when they ask you to pray for them do you say, "HEY - there's only ONE mediator - Jesus Christ.. don't be asking ME to pray for you!!! What's YOUR problem that you think you can't ask Him yourself!" Of course not. That would be ridicuous would actually be in violation of the scriptures that tell us to pray for one another.
I appreciate you sharing why you believe what you are practising as not a sin to God, but that is not an accurate analogy because when you go to others to ask them to pray for you, you are not "praying" to them to do so. You are talking with them and sharing a prayer request to "pray" to Jesus. So why the round about way? Prayers are to be offered up unto God. Why would God "broaden" the Way to include Mary, other saints, angels, or even the indwelling Holy Spirit as the Person to pray to because the Holy Spirit is in you? Just pray to Jesus. Jesus is the One that has acsended. He is the ONLY Mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus. It is by Him we can access the Father and pray to Him also. All invitations points to Jesus to get to God. Jesus is the door. All those that come before Him as in.. between you and Him are thieves and robbers. That is like committing spiritual adultery as you relate to someone else beside the Bridegroom as you are the Bride. What does He say to His Church if they are not abiding in Him by heeding His sayings? He would say, "I know ye not, depart from me, ye that work iniquity." So tell me how He wouldn't say that to you if you ignore His sayings and climb up another "way" in prayer? Did He not divert "attention" from His mother twice for those that would listen to hearing the Word of God and keeping it and doing the will of the Father? Did He not say that judgment is going to fall on those that honor not the Son, but someone else and thus are no longer honoring the Father? Why was it written in that way unless to warn us in how He will judge?All invitations given by Jesus points to Himself. Do you honor those invitations from the Bridegroom since you are engaged as the wise virgin, the Bride of Christ, the Church, or are you going to have "relations" with someone else in pertaining to that which should be towards Jesus for it is by Jesus ONLY do we have access to the Father?Seriously, take this issue to the Lord Jesus in prayer, and expect an answer. Don't pray to Mary, or any other sant, or an angel, or even the Holy Spirit, because He is in you leading you to look up to the One that has ascended to offer prayers unto God.Alot of people are using errant bible versions to justify parying to the Holy Spirit, but the NIV is wrong as the KJV gives the actual meaning of the scriptures.Romans 8: 26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will. NIVNote verse 27 as they translated it wrong by the grammar itself. How can the "he", a Third Person, that knows our hearts AND knows the mind of the Spirit, be the same "he" of "the Spirit" that intercedes for the saints according to the will of God? That is a grammarical error transcribed from documents of the Alexandrian files where gnostics writings came from that proves there is no fear of God in translating those words as they take poetic license and liberty in creating gnostics writings even. Look at the KJV.Romans 8: 26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. Note the first verse in how it is different from the NIV? People that say they have a prayer language to justify using tongues without an intepretor are the only ones that can have "peace" in the NIV. But we have more peace offered in the KJV. Here's how.The difference in the KJV is that the Holy Spirit maketh intercessions with groans not uttered as in "no sound" at all. This would lead the reader to ask the question, "Then how can the Holy Spirit intercede?" It goes to the "how" in the next verse as the "he" that searcheth the hearts AND knoweth the mind of the Spirit is the same "he" that maketh intercessions for the saints according to the will of God, thus the "he" is Jesus as He is the ONLY Mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.Because of errant bible versions whereas the King James Version were transcribed from the Received Text and not the Alexandrian files nor anywhere near them... but kept far from those transcribers that took poetic license with God's Words, I would advise strongly in using the KJV to determine the Truth in His sayings with Jesus' help, Your Good Shepherd.So even there, we are not to pray to the Holy Spirit since He is in us as He fulfills the role of the Comforter by abiding in us always so that Jesus, the ONLY Mediator between God and man can be Our Good Shepherd in watching over us. See how much peace the KJV brings from Romans 8:26,27? Even when you do not know what to pray or even have time to pray, we can rest in that Jesus knows for He is with us always as well as the Holy Spirit dwells in us so Jesus can mediate for us.Anyway... take this to Jesus in prayer and expect an answer. He will show you by scriptures, the errors of the practises of the Roman Church so that you may be led by Him to leave in having that relationship with the Lord.I did. And it was a Presbyterian Church I walked away from. They were binding themselves with bondages that only God can finish. I tried to warn them by the grace of God, but I was told to drop it, so I dropped them and left. Jesus is My Refuge now. I know Him as He leads me and guides me in the way I ought to go; hence a relationship in progress based on trusting Him at His words... thanks to Jesus. Amen.
 

goldy

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(Faithful;22521)
Hello Goldy,Jesus said, John 17:21.That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. Because we are one in Jesus and God as Jesus and the Father are one, does that make you or I, become God or Jesus?Jesus also taught: Mark 13:32.But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. So how are Jesus and the Father one? Thomas says also, "My Lord and my God". He did not say " My Lord God."But this is not surprising given the fact Moses taught.Deuteronomy 18:15 & 18-20. 15.The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;. 18.I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19.And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. 20.But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. Thomas knew that God himself was speaking through Christ. Hence he says,My Lord and my God. Clearly the Messiah with God speaking through him.The words of Christ is clear and he came not to do his own will but the will of him who sent me.Acts 7:56And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. We know Jesus was called the son of God and the Son of Man, but who is he stood beside on the right hand of? Jesus teachings reveal the truth. And men only perish for not having a love of truth. 2 Thessalonians 2:10 (King James Version)10.And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.Jesus like the Father God was without sin. He came from heaven to earth and was born a man, became flesh so he could die for our sins. The second and final Adam as Paul says. Be sure to know the difference between being taught by man and being taught by God. John 6:45 (King James Version)45.It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.Isaiah 54:13 (King James Version) 13.And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children.John 6:39 (King James Version)39.And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.The words of Christ are the ones we are told we must adhere to. Not anyone else, the prophtets and Christ. The good news which the disciples spread was to ensure everyone could have the opportunity of coming to Christ to be saved. The only truth, life and way for any man to come to God.Now the teachings of the trinity is a spiritual teaching not based on the understanding of flesh. Yes I believe the God the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit are one. The way Christ teaches it. And we have all been made one in them the same way. Love Faithful.ps Do you remember the serpent telling lies about Gods motives in warning Eve and Adam about death. Well think, what better way to deceive the elect that with teachings of what they must believe that cause division and judgement of others. One way Jesus says one way only, himself.:pray3:
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Faithful,Are you then saying that someone can't lead another person to Christ? Think about all the people Mother Teresa, Billy Graham, etc. led to Christ? Of course that doesn't make them God or anything like that. But God works through people all the time. He spoke through people (Isaiah, Jeremiah, Moses, etc.) in the bible as well. Am I misunderstanding you here? How could the Mother of Jesus not bring people to Christ? But again, maybe I'm misunderstanding you here.
 

goldy

New Member
Nov 6, 2007
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(Pariah;22524)
Hi goldy,You are admitting to taking honor that should be pertaining to Jesus as the only Mediator between God and Man to Mary.Scriptures do not say that Mary was given that office in the spiritual realm of taking people to Christ. Scriptures does say not to honor Mary or anyone else in that way That is sin.John 10: 1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep....7Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.1 Timothy 2: 5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;I did answered your question. Don't you find it significant that Jesus drew attention away from Mary twice in scriptures?And your asseration that Mary did not say this, "Don't listen to him, listen to me", is correct, but by YOU stating this is making Mary a hypocrite with your practise for how can you listen to Him if you are listening to her? How can you listen to Him if you are going in prayer to Mary? Why else would Jesus say, "Depart from me, ye that work iniquity, for I never knew you."? because you were not heeding His Word and you climbed up another "way" to God.John 14: 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. So your honoring Mary is sin. Praying to the saints is sin.Praying to the angels is sin.Praying to the Holy Spirit is sin because He is in you. Offering prayers are to be offered "up". Jesus is Whom the Holy Spirit in you is testifying of and thereby glorifying the Son and thus pointing you to Jesus. If you are led by the Spirit of God, why are you not doing that?When the scriptures says Jesus is the ONLY Mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus, and that is significant as it refers to the bodily resurrected Jesus Christ Whom has ascended thus prayers are offered up unto God in the Way God the Father has provided for you cannot acess God the Father in any other Way except through Jesus. Thus.. honor the Son... you honor the Father. Honor NOT the Son, you are NOT honoring the Father. THUS the commandment is given... you are not to honor Mary if you think you are honoring God in that "way".Tell you what. Take this concern for you to Jesus in prayer. And expect an answer. Don't ask Mary, or any other saint, or even the Holy Spirit for He is in you since He is leading you to do the same thing by the scriptures... take this issue to Jesus in prayer.
Well then Pariah, you should NEVER, EVER pray for someone again. Because you are taking the place of God. After all, there is only one mediator between God and man, Jesus Christ right? You wouldn't cotradict scripture would you? And please spare me the answer of, "Mary is dead". Mary isn't dead, her very SOUL is much more alive than yours and mine. Remember, God is the God of the living and not the dead. People in Heaven are infinitely more alive than any of us on earth......unless you think Mary is in hell.
 

Pariah

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Nov 10, 2007
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goldy,You did not take this to Jesus in prayer, did you?Asking someone to pray for you is not the same as praying to them to pray to God.You are not sharing a prayer request with Mary. You are treating her as God when you pray to her.If you want a personal relationship with God, then you have to go through Jesus Christ the Lord. You are just defending your practise without taking time out and asking Jesus if He has any objection to this practise. The fact that you did not take this to Him in prayer proves you know deep down you are going against His will. You are therefore "comfortable" with your routine and it is a matter of pride to inquire otherwise.
 

goldy

New Member
Nov 6, 2007
204
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(Pariah;22530)
goldy,You did not take this to Jesus in prayer, did you?Asking someone to pray for you is not the same as praying to them to pray to God.You are not sharing a prayer request with Mary. You are treating her as God when you pray to her.If you want a personal relationship with God, then you have to go through Jesus Christ the Lord. You are just defending your practise without taking time out and asking Jesus if He has any objection to this practise. The fact that you did not take this to Him in prayer proves you know deep down you are going against His will. You are therefore "comfortable" with your routine and it is a matter of pride to inquire otherwise.
Sorry Pariah, since apparantly you're my prayer master I should do exactly what you say. Hmmmmmm, I remember a certain passage where Christ says, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone". I also recall a passage regarding removing the wooden beam from your eye before removing the speck out of someone else's. But hey, what do I know. Answer me this, when you use this language, how are you being Christ to others?
 

Jordan

Active Member
Apr 6, 2007
4,875
6
38
(goldy;22440)
(thesuperjag;22438)
This is getting ridiculous. I know you are having a complete hard time believing Truth, because you are ether blinded by the god of this world (II Corinthians 4:4) or you are either ignorant.And no, I have not committed a damnable heresy, for Mary is a sinner like we are all, (Romans 3:23) for she is not part of the Godhead (I John 5:7) and she needed her son who is God (John 1:1) to save her, as Yahshua is the Saviour of the world. (I John 4:14)Jag
Please read my last post regarding the heresy. Question: What does Truth mean to you? And how am I blinded by the god of this world? I would agree that Mary needed a savior. She needed God to preserve Her from the stain of original sin. We can always agree to disagree here. But please keep it charitable. My comment wasn't an attack. But Catholics do believe that if you separate Jesus from God, you are committing a heresy by denying His divinity. But hey, maybe I'm just misunderstanding. Have a great dayYou are so blinded by the practice of the teaching of RCC. Mary has no position of "Co-Redeemer" and she can't hear your prayers, which she was a sinner and born of sin. You are following Lucifer goldy.(goldy;22538)
Oh, this reminds me to pray my rosary!!
Matthew 6:7 - But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.Jag
 

Pariah

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Nov 10, 2007
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Sorry Pariah, since apparantly you're my prayer master I should do exactly what you say. Hmmmmmm, I remember a certain passage where Christ says, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone". I also recall a passage regarding removing the wooden beam from your eye before removing the speck out of someone else's. But hey, what do I know. Answer me this, when you use this language, how are you being Christ to others?
goldy,I do not pray to Mary so how can it be a beam in my eye to remove first so I can see clearly to remove the speck in your eye when I do not pray to Mary, but you do? That is what Christ meant in judging as in correcting other in not being hypocrites. So tell me, you use that excuse with your folks to get away with whatever you want? They can't correct you in anything because they are not perfect so you don't have to listen to them if you are doing something wrong that they are not doing? I don't think so.Be reasonable. Consider what I share. How can praying to Mary not be seen the same way as mediums talking to ghosts?Even King Saul thought he was wise in his own eyes to have a medium call up the spirit of Samuel to get advise from God. He went in a round about way too, right? Even though it was to get advise from God in an indirect way through the spirit of God's former prophet on earth, it was still consider sin for not going to the Lord in the first place.Deuteronomy 18: 9When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. 10There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch. 11Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. 12For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee. 13Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God. 14For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do. Leviticus 19: 31Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God. Psalm 14: 2The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. 3They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 4Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread, and call not upon the LORD.Thus calling on Mary is NOT calling on the Lord.
 

Jordan

Active Member
Apr 6, 2007
4,875
6
38
(Pariah;22548)
goldy,I do not pray to Mary so how can it be a beam in my eye to remove first so I can see clearly to remove the speck in your eye when I do not pray to Mary, but you do? That is what Christ meant in judging as in correcting other in not being hypocrites. So tell me, you use that excuse with your folks to get away with whatever you want? They can't correct you in anything because they are not perfect so you don't have to listen to them if you are doing something wrong that they are not doing? I don't think so.Be reasonable. Consider what I share. How can praying to Mary not be seen the same way as mediums talking to ghosts?Even King Saul thought he was wise in his own eyes to have a medium call up the spirit of Samuel to get advise from God. He went in a round about way too, right? Even though it was to get advise from God in an indirect way through the spirit of God's former prophet on earth, it was still consider sin for not going to the Lord in the first place.Deuteronomy 18: 9When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. 10There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch. 11Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. 12For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee. 13Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God. 14For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do. Leviticus 19: 31Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God. Psalm 14: 2The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. 3They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 4Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread, and call not upon the LORD.Thus calling on Mary is NOT calling on the Lord.
I agree with you Pariah 100%. Great post.
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JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour.