Purity,
I would be happy to go into more detail on the subject. However, before I do, I would like to have you answer some of my questions, since I have been very willing to respond to yours.
Based on your views, please explain the following:
1. If Jesus is a created being, how can his one sacrifice be sufficient to redeem the entire world?
2. If Jesus is a created being, how can it be said that "God alone" is our salvation? Wouldn't Jesus, not God, be the real source of our salvation?
3. If Jesus is a created being, why is he worshipped? (Rev. 5:8-13; Heb. 1:6; 2 Pet. 3:18).
4. If Jesus is a created being, why is he depicted as the Creator? (John 1:1-3; Col. 1:16; 1 Cor. 8:6; Heb. 1:3)
5. If Jesus was merely an outstanding man who was blessed and glorified because of his exemplary life, how did he have authority to forgive sins? (Mark 2:7-10)
I believe the doctrine of the Trinity makes sense of all the teaching of Scripture and our redemption. Although it seems you and nothead will not be satisfied unless there was a verse that says, "Jesus is God, the exact substance of God, and one of three persons of the Triune God." Yet the point here is that while you may not be satisfied with my answers, they are biblically sound in every way which is why it is a cornerstone of historical Christian doctrine and other views such as Arianism and Adoptionism have been discounted long ago as dangerous heresies. Let's take a little time to examine your position and see how it stands up to the actual teaching of the Bible before I continue with my "defense."
There are many ways in which these questions can be answered. These are good questions wormwood and should you investigate the answers for your own faith, O the fruits which are awaiting you there. If you searched and found we would not be having this lengthy discussion and many Christian would not be in the confused state they currently find themselves in today.
The irony in questions 1 – 4 has their answer in number 5. (its often the case)
“A good question is better than a good answer” One opens and leads to more good questions while the good answer can close a discussion.
However, I perceive it is not enough for you to know an acknowledge Jesus was an outstanding man who was upheld in an exemplary life. Somehow I perceive you seek for more philosophy to muse upon.
I cannot provide you with philosophy only the living and abiding Word which gives life.
If Jesus was an “eternal” Spirit with no beginning, these words would make no sense, or would their meaning carry any weight whatsoever to the believer.
Rev 1:18
I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
This teaching which reveals Yahweh being revealed through a body of humiliation (Phil 3:21) goes to the very heart of what you are asking (questions 1-5) from the Lord.
The context of verse Rev 1:17 as you can verify yourself is correctly supporting the above interpretation.
Now to have life, death and life again is not language used of God Himself.
Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. (1 Timothy 6:16)
The leap (or connection) you make from Rev 1:8 to 1 Tim 6:6 is what you call the Trinity.
Early church fathers who were heavily influenced by philosophers such as Plato sought to reconcile the relationship between Christ and his Father. Unfortunately their reasoning’s were not based on the Bible text but philosophical beliefs gleaned from the thinking of their day.
What is required to prove the Trinity?
What you need here is for Jesus who is speaking in the presence tense to say “I am he that has always lived (eternally), I was dead, behold, I am alive forevermore”
But that is never qualified anywhere in the Scripture.
The kicker here is a living being to be dead must have possessed a life of flesh and blood, he had a beginning and an end.
Unlike Yahweh who is beyond the Alpha and Omega, Jesus has a clear beginning and an end. Out of his own mouth Jesus declares his existence has its beginning by Gal 4:4 and his end and resurrection by Yahweh Himself (Luke 14:14 & Phil 3:20,21)
The life Jesus lived was in a vile body one requiring to be raised to a glorious body.
Here is where it gets hard for you wormwood.
You believe:
Jesus had no beginning that he was not actually born with life and he didn’t really die a complete death for he always lives.
The glorious body he has today he possessed prior to his life and death.
The answers to your questions 1-5 are all speaking what Jesus became through suffering and death something God himself cannot do for obvious reasons.
Lets take your first question and I will deal with the others as we progress:
1. If Jesus is a created being, how can his one sacrifice be sufficient to redeem the entire world?
Wormwood states: the sacrifice must be God Himself.
The Bible states: the sacrifice had to contain life blood which is in the blood itself (Lev 17:11 & John 6:53)
The Bible teaches the blood represented a life; therefore, blood shed represented a life given in willing sacrifice.
The Bible also teaches that life must be in the line of Adam – a condemned line of mortal creatures subject to passions and held under the condemnation of death. Heb 2:13,14,15 & Rom 6:9
That life had to be sacrificed unto Yahweh, hence a life of dedication of His will.
If you believe God himself was sacrificed on the basis of His Own dedication to His own Self then you clearly have corrupted the Bible text in a major way.
God cannot seek Himself nor would He present Himself as doing so under the guise of free will.
So under the Law the blood of animals were slain for sacrificial purposes of worship, pointed forward to the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, whose life was given in total dedication to the will of his Father.
God cannot worship Himself – He is the object of worship.
The Atonement is all about the blood (life) to be given unto God, the flesh must be put to death.
Hence when an offerer sacrificed an animal and its blood was placed on the altar, he proclaimed the need of putting to death the flesh and devoting his life to Yahweh in order to worship acceptably.
The principle of dedication also conflicts with your Trinity theory. Jesus declared the righteousness of Yahweh (not himself) by bloodshed in sacrifice, and it was given to the altar (not made with hands) , represented a life dedicated unto Yahweh.
Christ's life was given in that way, and hence provided the means of redemption.
But his sacrifice was representative, not substitutionary: he died for us (as an example for us), not instead of us. His action in so doing, illustrated what is expected of all those who would come unto God through him (see Gal 5:24 ). Hence their lives, too, must be given to God on the altar: they must dedicate themselves to doing the will of God, else for them there will be "no remission" (Heb 9:22 ).
We cannot leave it all to God and Christ, but must give our lives (or blood) unto Him in acceptable worship. Therefore, it is the blood that "maketh a covering (atonement) for the soul", or life (see Mat 10:39; Mat 26:28 ).
If these principles are understood you will understand Jesus (a created being) though flesh and blood in the line of Abraham and David was morally sinless and therefore the grave could not hold him.
Your question
1. If Jesus is a created being, how can his one sacrifice be sufficient to redeem the entire world?
Answer:
Jesus was not taken from Heaven as an eternal being, but from among men and given the eternal Word (Heb 5:1)
Jesus was not God in any way, shape or form, as he was required to fulfil (Heb 11:6) and was rewarded for his faithfulness. Faith and inheritance cannot be extended to God Himself.
God cannot be referred to as an altar (Heb 13:10) that which facilitates worship and sacrifice belongs to Christ the mediator between God and Man Eph 4:5,6,7
God does not require sanctification He alone sanctifies through His Son by His Word. 1 Tim 3:16; 1 Cor 6:11 (note the word manifest!) 1 Tim 4:5
The sacrifice of Jesus Christ was on the basis of him being a created man – the firstborn of every creature. However you see him as being firstborn you must also see every other creature in like manner. Israel was Gods firstborn Exo 4:22. Every believer “firstborn” is to do with status as many were born before the Lord Jesus Christ just as many nations were literally given birth before Israel.
(Jer 31:9; Gen 48:14,19; Deut 21:17; Psa 89:27; Heb 12:23)
I will approach your another questions in due course.
In this post I have proven the sacrifice was on the basis of a created being doing the will of Him who raised him up. Nowhere will you find the atonement is on the basis of God sacrificing Himself by sending Himself to earth to die for His people. The contrary is proven – an obedience submissive Son gave his life for his Father that the earth may behold the righteousness of God and His great mercy and grace.
Purity