America in the Bible

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DaDad

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Eric E Stahl, on 09 Apr 2014 - 6:37 PM, said:
Eric E Stahl said:
That verse is describing the moon stopping and the sun hiding behind it. It is about the permanent solare eclipse.
Eric E Stahl said:
Some day in the time of battle God will take hold of the sides of the earth and withhold light from the wicked and brake him.
Hi Eric,

I would propose that there are OTHER ways besides a "permanent solar eclipse" to hide the sun and the moon, -- as "keras" proposed in the "dust and ash" comment.


With Best Regards,
DD
 

Eric E Stahl

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DaDad said:
Eric E Stahl, on 09 Apr 2014 - 6:37 PM, said:


Hi Eric,

I would propose that there are OTHER ways besides a "permanent solar eclipse" to hide the sun and the moon, -- as "keras" proposed in the "dust and ash" comment.


With Best Regards,
DD
During the kingdom age the sun and moon will stay over Israel but won't give light.

[SIZE=16pt]Isaiah 60:1-3,19-22[/SIZE]
1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.
2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.
3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.
19The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
20Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.
21 Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.
22 A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the LORD will hasten it in his time.
 

keras

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Back to the OP of this thread, an issue of more immediate concern than what will happen during the Millennium.
Do you or do you not agree that the United States of America is the 'nation' referred to in Isaiah 18, as per my post #11 ?

It is a provable fact that the 10 Northern tribes if Israel, taken into exile circa 722-718 BCE, are still 'scattered among the nations', Ezekiel 11:16 and are not as yet rejioned as per Ezekiel 37. From the careful research of many disciplines, it can be ascertained that Britain comprises mostly of Ephraim and the USA, Manasseh. This is a perfect fulfilment of the prophecy in Genesis 48:17-20. Therefore we can expect the judgement of the Day of the Lord's wrath - Jacob's trouble, as in Jeremiah 30:4-7
 

Eric E Stahl

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keras said:
Back to the OP of this thread, an issue of more immediate concern than what will happen during the Millennium.
Do you or do you not agree that the United States of America is the 'nation' referred to in Isaiah 18, as per my post #11 ?

It is a provable fact that the 10 Northern tribes if Israel, taken into exile circa 722-718 BCE, are still 'scattered among the nations', Ezekiel 11:16 and are not as yet rejioned as per Ezekiel 37. From the careful research of many disciplines, it can be ascertained that Britain comprises mostly of Ephraim and the USA, Manasseh. This is a perfect fulfilment of the prophecy in Genesis 48:17-20. Therefore we can expect the judgement of the Day of the Lord's wrath - Jacob's trouble, as in Jeremiah 30:4-7
Keras,
I do believe Isaiah 18 is about America because of the following.

Isaiah 18

1 Woe to the land shadowing with wings, which is beyond the rivers of Ethiopia:
2 That sendeth ambassadors by the sea, even in vessels of bulrushes upon the waters, saying, Go, ye swift messengers, to a nation scattered and peeled, to a people terrible from their beginning hitherto; a nation meted out and trodden down, whose land the rivers have spoiled!

3 All ye inhabitants of the world, and dwellers on the earth, see ye, when he lifteth up an ensign on the mountains; and when he bloweth a trumpet, hear ye. (((Isaiah 5:24-30 America will be called to come to take a prey safely back to America at the other end of the earth.)))





4 For so the LORD said unto me, I will take my rest, and I will consider in my dwelling place like a clear heat upon herbs, and like a cloud of dew in the heat of harvest.
(((Isaiah 30:18 Jesus went back to his place to wait till God sends him back. Isaiah 30:19-24 Israel today and next the time of Jacob’s trouble in 25-33))
5 For afore the harvest, when the bud is perfect, and the sour grape is ripening in the flower, he shall both cut off the sprigs with pruning hooks, and take away and cut down the branches.
6 They shall be left together unto the fowls of the mountains, and to the beasts of the earth: and the fowls shall summer upon them, and all the beasts of the earth shall winter upon them.

[SIZE=14pt](((After the tribulation the Jewish women and children will be brought back to Jesus in Israel. Isaiah 60:8-9 by the ships of tarshish)))[/SIZE]
7In that time shall the present be brought unto the LORD of hosts of a people scattered and peeled, and from a people terrible from their beginning hitherto; a nation meted out and trodden under foot, whose land the rivers have spoiled, to the place of the name of the LORD of hosts, the mount Zion.
 

DaDad

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Eric E Stahl said:
During the kingdom age the sun and moon will stay over Israel but won't give light.

[SIZE=16pt]Isaiah 60:1-3,19-22[/SIZE]
...
19The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light

Hi Eric,

I believe that in "heaven", there will be no need for a sun or a moon over a rotating earth. It would seem that GOD will provide eternal light.


With Best Regards,
DD
 

Retrobyter

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Shalom, Eric.

Eric E Stahl said:
That verse is describing the moon stopping and the sun hiding behind it. It is about the permanent solare eclipse.
Not so, brother. First of all, there's NO SUCH THING AS A PERMANENT SOLAR ECLIPSE! Do you realize the complexity of such a scenario?! It's NOT physically possible! The orbits are not exact; they are elliptical and oblique! Futhermore, the orbits of the earth around the sun and the moon around the earth are NOT on the same plane!

Secondly, you need to understand the Hebrew words behind this verse:

Yesha`yahu (Isaiah) 24:23
23 Vchaafraah halVaanaah uwVowshaah hachamaah kit maalakh YHWH tsVaa’owt bhar Tsiyown uwViYruwshaalaim vneged zqeenaayv kaaVowd:
JPS Hebrew/English TaNaKH


23 Vchaafraah = 23 And-shall-blush
halVaanaah = the-moon
uwVowshaah = and-shall-pale
hachamaah = the-sun
kiy = when
maalakh = shall-reign
YHWH = the-LORD
tsVaa’owt = of-hosts
bhar = in-Mount
Tsiyown = Tsiyown/Zion
uwViYruwshaalaim = and-in-Yerushalayim/Jerusalem
vneged = and-before
zqeenaayv = His-old-ones
kaaVowd: = brightly:
 

Eric E Stahl

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Retrobyter said:
Shalom, Eric.


Not so, brother. First of all, there's NO SUCH THING AS A PERMANENT SOLAR ECLIPSE! Do you realize the complexity of such a scenario?! It's NOT physically possible! The orbits are not exact; they are elliptical and oblique! Futhermore, the orbits of the earth around the sun and the moon around the earth are NOT on the same plane!

Secondly, you need to understand the Hebrew words behind this verse:

Yesha`yahu (Isaiah) 24:23
23 Vchaafraah halVaanaah uwVowshaah hachamaah kit maalakh YHWH tsVaa’owt bhar Tsiyown uwViYruwshaalaim vneged zqeenaayv kaaVowd:
JPS Hebrew/English TaNaKH


23 Vchaafraah = 23 And-shall-blush
halVaanaah = the-moon
uwVowshaah = and-shall-pale
hachamaah = the-sun
kiy = when
maalakh = shall-reign
YHWH = the-LORD
tsVaa’owt = of-hosts
bhar = in-Mount
Tsiyown = Tsiyown/Zion
uwViYruwshaalaim = and-in-Yerushalayim/Jerusalem
vneged = and-before
zqeenaayv = His-old-ones
kaaVowd: = brightly:
Retrobyter said:
Shalom, Eric.


Not so, brother. First of all, there's NO SUCH THING AS A PERMANENT SOLAR ECLIPSE! Do you realize the complexity of such a scenario?! It's NOT physically possible! The orbits are not exact; they are elliptical and oblique! Futhermore, the orbits of the earth around the sun and the moon around the earth are NOT on the same plane!

Secondly, you need to understand the Hebrew words behind this verse:

Yesha`yahu (Isaiah) 24:23
23 Vchaafraah halVaanaah uwVowshaah hachamaah kit maalakh YHWH tsVaa’owt bhar Tsiyown uwViYruwshaalaim vneged zqeenaayv kaaVowd:
JPS Hebrew/English TaNaKH


23 Vchaafraah = 23 And-shall-blush
halVaanaah = the-moon
uwVowshaah = and-shall-pale
hachamaah = the-sun
kiy = when
maalakh = shall-reign
YHWH = the-LORD
tsVaa’owt = of-hosts
bhar = in-Mount
Tsiyown = Tsiyown/Zion
uwViYruwshaalaim = and-in-Yerushalayim/Jerusalem
vneged = and-before
zqeenaayv = His-old-ones
kaaVowd: = brightly:
Retrobyter
God will take hold of the sides of the earth to take light from the wicked Job 38:13,15

In the kingdom age the New Jerusalem will come into the shadow of the moon and be suspended between the gravity of the moon and the earth over the hills of Israel Micah 4:1.

The other post was a mistake sorry.
 

kjw47

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The two horned wild beast of rev 13= the united states and united kingdom-- the final world power. They exercise all authority of the first beast( 7 headed) = the united nations.
 

DaDad

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kjw47 said:
The two horned wild beast of rev 13= the united states and united kingdom-- the final world power. They exercise all authority of the first beast( 7 headed) = the united nations.
Hi kjw47,

Wouldn't it be a bit confusing to define your family as six children, and then repeat two of them?


THE FIRST BEAST

Rev. 13:1
And I saw a beast rising out of the sea...

A. Mouth of the Lion = Lion & Eagles wings = U.K./U.S.
B. Body of the Leopard (actually a "Tiger") = Leopard with 4-Heads & 4-Wings = China
C. Feet of the Bear = Bear with Three Ribs = Russia

Rev. 13:11
11 Then I saw another beast which rose out of the earth ...
12 I t exercises all the authority of the first beast in its presence


When you meet another in the same room, are they both you?



With Best Regards,
DD
 

shturt678

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DaDad said:
Hi kjw47,

Wouldn't it be a bit confusing to define your family as six children, and then repeat two of them?


THE FIRST BEAST

Rev. 13:1
And I saw a beast rising out of the sea...

A. Mouth of the Lion = Lion & Eagles wings = U.K./U.S.
B. Body of the Leopard (actually a "Tiger") = Leopard with 4-Heads & 4-Wings = China
C. Feet of the Bear = Bear with Three Ribs = Russia

Rev. 13:11
11 Then I saw another beast which rose out of the earth ...
12 I t exercises all the authority of the first beast in its presence


When you meet another in the same room, are they both you?



With Best Regards,
DD
Thank you folks for caring!

Rev.13:1-10 = the whole antichristian power in the whole world.

Rev.13:11-18 = the whole antichristian propaganda in the whole world ("deceptive activity" maxed out in today's full blown apostasy of hypergrace only for openers).

Old Jack's opinion
 

DaDad

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shturt678 said:
Thank you folks for caring!
Hi shturt678,

2 Timothy 4:2 says:
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

Your response says the opposite.



With Best Regards,
DD
 

shturt678

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DaDad said:
Hi shturt678,

2 Timothy 4:2 says:
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

Your response says the opposite.



With Best Regards,
DD
Thank you for your response and caring sir!

You're absolutely correct! I'm more in tune with IITim.4:3, 4 instead of v.2 due to the full blown apostasy of "hypergrace" I was born into.

Also I fall way under IITim.3:16, and was hoping you could refute me at Rev.13?

Old correctable Jack
 

DaDad

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shturt678 said:
... (I) was hoping you could refute me at Rev.13? ...
Hi shturt678,

Please feel free to start the discussion by explaining the difference in the quantity and location of the diadems between Rev. 12:3 & Rev. 13:

Rev. 12:3
3 And another portent appeared in heaven; behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems upon his heads.

Rev. 13:1
1 And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems upon its horns and a blasphemous name upon its heads.


I would argue that the significance of the diadems is identical, but what changed?

With Best Regards,
DD
 

shturt678

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DaDad said:
Hi shturt678,

Please feel free to start the discussion by explaining the difference in the quantity and location of the diadems between Rev. 12:3 & Rev. 13:

Rev. 12:3
3 And another portent appeared in heaven; behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems upon his heads.

Rev. 13:1
1 And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems upon its horns and a blasphemous name upon its heads.


I would argue that the significance of the diadems is identical, but what changed?

With Best Regards,
DD
Thank you for your response!

I agree to agree, that is, the significance of the diadems is identical, eg, Rev.12:3 & 13:1.

What changed is Rev.13:1 is after our Lord Christ Jesus' work at the Cross where Rev.12:3 was before the Cross,ie, an exponential game changer.

Old Jack
 

DaDad

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DaDad said:
Hi shturt678,

Please feel free to start the discussion by explaining the difference in the quantity and location of the diadems between Rev. 12:3 & Rev. 13:

Rev. 12:3
3 And another portent appeared in heaven; behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems upon his heads.

Rev. 13:1
1 And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems upon its horns and a blasphemous name upon its heads.


I would argue that the significance of the diadems is identical, but what changed?

With Best Regards,
DD

shturt678 said:
What changed is Rev.13:1 is after our Lord Christ Jesus' work at the Cross where Rev.12:3 was before the Cross,ie, an exponential game changer.

Hi shtur678,

Perhaps you could elucidate exactly why the diadems changed from the heads to the horns. And in this, you might ascribe the significance of those two categories (heads vs. horns) to arrive to your premise.


With Best Regards,
DD
 

shturt678

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DaDad said:
Hi shtur678,

Perhaps you could elucidate exactly why the diadems changed from the heads to the horns. And in this, you might ascribe the significance of those two categories (heads vs. horns) to arrive to your premise.


With Best Regards,
DD
Thank you for your response and excellent coherent request.

Rev.12:3, "having 7 heads and 10 horns, and upon his heads 7 diadems." Let's eyeball this a little and see if 'heads' to the 'horns' can be reconciled somehow? Right off the top, the 7 heads, the 10 horns, and 7 diadems on the 10 horns are plainly symbolic contextually + Rev.1:1, "he signified." "7" simply right off the bat appears in connection with the devil, it indicates the arrogant assumption of a relation to men which belongs to God alone (3 to designate God, + 4 to designate men in the world). A walk in the park.

"heads" Royal heads denote royal majesty and dominion especially when they are bearing royal diadems. I guess the way this is heading, in his monstrous hellish power and malignity the devil and arrogates to himself the dominion which is God's alone. The "horn" is the regular symbol of power, and "ten" is the number of completeness.

Thus the 10 horns of the dragon - the dominion over men. This dragon, the devil, would be God so that al men might bow before him today.

Sorry, got carried away and since we will have to agree to disagree, will spare you any more of my view for now,

Old Jack, sinfully enjoying myself too toooo much.
 

DaDad

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hi shtur678,

shturt678 said:
Rev.12:3, "having 7 heads and 10 horns, and upon his heads 7 diadems." Let's eyeball this a little and see if 'heads' to the 'horns' can be reconciled somehow? Right off the top, the 7 heads, the 10 horns, and 7 diadems on the 10 horns are plainly symbolic contextually + Rev.1:1, "he signified." "7" simply right off the bat appears in connection with the devil, it indicates the arrogant assumption of a relation to men which belongs to God alone (3 to designate God, + 4 to designate men in the world).
I'm a little confused. If the seven are "3 to designate God, + 4 to designate men in the world", then why have the seven as both "seven heads" and "seven diadems"? if the seven are basically synonymous, then wouldn't your explanation suggest an unnecessary redundancy? Shouldn't the "seven heads" have one explanation, and the "seven diadems" have a different explanation?


shturt678 said:
The "horn" is the regular symbol of power, and "ten" is the number of completeness.

Thus the 10 horns of the dragon - the dominion over men.
This seems a little vague. It would seem that the "dragon" already has dominion over the earth, (just look at mankind to demonstrate the evil which man conceives).


But in either case, you still haven't explained WHY Rev. 12 has SEVEN diadems over the "seven heads" versus the Rev. 13 having TEN diadems over the "ten horns", and WHY the locations and quantities have changed.


I hope you're not attempting to bamboozle me with empty words.

With Best Regards,
DD
 

shturt678

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DaDad said:
hi shtur678,


I'm a little confused. If the seven are "3 to designate God, + 4 to designate men in the world", then why have the seven as both "seven heads" and "seven diadems"? if the seven are basically synonymous, then wouldn't your explanation suggest an unnecessary redundancy? Shouldn't the "seven heads" have one explanation, and the "seven diadems" have a different explanation?



This seems a little vague. It would seem that the "dragon" already has dominion over the earth, (just look at mankind to demonstrate the evil which man conceives).


But in either case, you still haven't explained WHY Rev. 12 has SEVEN diadems over the "seven heads" versus the Rev. 13 having TEN diadems over the "ten horns", and WHY the locations and quantities have changed.


I hope you're not attempting to bamboozle me with empty words.

With Best Regards,
DD
Thank you again for your candid repsonse.

You appear to be a true student of the Word, and I don't find this too often at my low paygrade and old age, ie, great!

These are either empty words or in the truthful directions sir?

The symbolic visions in Revelation, eg, the figures (the figures and what is said about them), are to be viewed as a composite, and not to be construed separately. This applies especially to Rev.6:2 regarding the personifications to Rev.12:3, "7 heads and 10 horns....7 diadems" are to be viewed as a composite.

The personal dragon ("Satan") is the abyss until Rev.20:7 (right around the corner) and is forced to work through the antichristian propaganda ("deceptions") throughout the N.T. era (Rev.13:11-18).

We can agree to disagree sir.

Old Jack
 

DaDad

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shturt678 said:
The symbolic visions in Revelation, eg, the figures (the figures and what is said about them), are to be viewed as a composite, and not to be construed separately. This applies especially to Rev.6:2 regarding the personifications to Rev.12:3, "7 heads and 10 horns....7 diadems" are to be viewed as a composite.
Hi shturt678,

Once again you have not answered the simple question of:

WHY Rev. 12 has SEVEN diadems over the "seven heads" versus the Rev. 13 having TEN diadems over the "ten horns", and WHY the locations and quantities have changed.



Is my question confusing, and should I reword it?

With Best Regards,
DD
 

shturt678

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DaDad said:
Hi shturt678,

Once again you have not answered the simple question of:

WHY Rev. 12 has SEVEN diadems over the "seven heads" versus the Rev. 13 having TEN diadems over the "ten horns", and WHY the locations and quantities have changed.



Is my question confusing, and should I reword it?

With Best Regards,
DD
Thank you again for your response!

I was trying to keep it too simple thus lies on me, ie, lol at myself, not you. Rev.12:3, "seven heads....and upon his heads seven diadems." Rev.13:1, "ten horns....and on his horns ten diadems," Simplifying again, the dragon's heads are crowned with diadems as though his plans and purposes for men were royal, as those of Christ the real King are, and as though he uses his ten horns, the sum of his whole power ("Power" DaDad), for man's true interest. The wild beast (Rev.13) carries the diadems on his ten horns as though he operates with Christ's royal powers, to which powers ("Powers" DaDad), to which powers ("Powers" DaDad), therefore, men should bow as to the superior authority.

Old "Powerless" Jack,

Appreciate you and your words, and thank you again.