QUESTION 1 for YOU - IF YOU BELIEVE JESUS is GOD

nothead said:

I said that nothing matches up perfectly and you said the first words, whether Isa or Exodus do match perfectly, the I AM part of God's sentences. I had mentioned previously that the Hebrew DOES NOT TRANSLATE I AM, but you glossed it. Yeah you right, when God says I am he, the first the last etc. the first two words DO MATCH to ego eimi, but not Ho Own the second clause of Exodus 3.

I showed you that I AM with the complement is a common saying for anyone, not none of us necessarily God. But you glossed it again.

I go no further with you dude. Consider yourself the FIRST poster for nothead to give up on. WHERE IS YOUR HEAD??

You realize NOT that these words mean nothing at all? The blind man says I AM in chpt 9 of John the NEXT CHAPTER and only a few verses later. HE IS GOD? WHAT?

WAIT, I didn't mean that. Not NOTHING AT ALL, he is saying the same thing he says to the Samaritan woman, I am he THE MESSIAH she spoke of.

Click to expand...

ok, Exodus 3 proves Jesus is not God you win, your the winner.

Have a nice day

StanJ said:

It is important to note that Jesus said; "This is HOW you should pray, not WHAT.
At that point of course Jesus was NOT Glorified. He did however, later on in John 14, instruct them;
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

and yet you still can't provide on iota of evidence that we should accept that YOU are qualified to reject what these credentialed scholars teach.
I'll stick with Gill any day over you pal.

Again all I see, is blah blah blah, blah blah, blah blah blah. :unsure:

Click to expand...

You my freind are now contradicting yourself,the verses you present show Jesus returning to heaven to reunite with his and ours Father.Jesus has now become a mediator between man and God,The same way a lawyer is mediator between you and the judge,A judge may not listen to you,but he will listen to your lawyer,Its going to be the same way in heaven,God may not respect you ,But he respects Jesus.Jesus can help even the most sinful of men get into heaven.

nothead said:

How I should pray...Father who art in heaven, HALLOWED be thy name "Jesus"..."Jesus the Father, many times said in NT, yeah mun."

2) I asked for a million bucks in the name of "Jesus" and it did not come. What happinin' Stan? What kind of plan you got, Stan? What went wrong Stan?

Not enough FAITH? Maybe if I pray LOUDER?? Maybe JUMP UP AND DOWN??

I dare you to read out loud a single whole page sentence he strung along with MORE than 500 words. I seen it, I never ATTEMPTED to recite it.

Actually you can't do them in 3-4 breaths. Takes ten or more. How weird is that?

Nothead actually cuts his sentences off. He has more to say but ....he has discretion too.


The blithering is evident from you pallyboy. Blah blah blah more than 7 times 7 will not be forgiven.

Click to expand...

Another example of your total ineptitude to understand ANYTHING the Bible says. There is a reason He called Him Father.

James 4:3
You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures.
Another example of how inept your knowledge of the Bible is.

Now you're back to blah blah blah, blah blah, blah blah blah blah.

Obviously referring to yourself in the third person confirms the standard psychological diagnosis that you have an exaggerated view of how great you are, and you use this tact of presenting distance to make yourself even bigger. Sad but oh so predictable for someone who has a real big problem with cognitive dissonance.

Madad21 said:

ok, Exodus 3 proves Jesus is not God you win, your the winner.

Have a nice day

Click to expand...

Mazda, its not about winning - much more hangs off this than you may realise.

Pelaides said:

You my freind are now contradicting yourself,the verses you present show Jesus returning to heaven to reunite with his and ours Father.Jesus has now become a mediator between man and God,The same way a lawyer is mediator between you and the judge,A judge may not listen to you,but he will listen to your lawyer,Its going to be the same way in heaven,God may not respect you ,But he respects Jesus.Jesus can help even the most sinful of men get into heaven.

Click to expand...

Returning to heaven? Hmmmm, so you think Jesus IS from heaven? So you agree with John 1:1?
I'm afraid a lawyer and a mediator are two different things, and Jesus is the ONLY mediator between God and man. In order for someone to be a mediator, they have to have experience on both sides of the issue, so this just confirms that Jesus in His hypostatic nature, is both God and Man.
He IS our high priest in the Order of Melchizedek.
As Peter said in Acts 10:34, God is NO respecter of persons. No man goes to heaven, sinful or otherwise. Apparently you also did not get the memo about salvation and ETERNAL LIFE.

Purity said:

Mazda, its not about winning - much more hangs off this than you may realise.

Click to expand...

You're absolutely right....it is about TRUTH and who God really is.

Purity said:

Mazda, its not about winning - much more hangs off this than you may realise.

Click to expand...

Did you actually read all i posted last night? I even answered your post from the other day.

Do you really think that I think its about winning, of course not, I just thought I would give the baby (nothead) his bottle.

No one wins in these arguments, never have never will, i said it before and Ive done it a million times, we go full circle all the way back to the beginning and do it all again from there.

Wah wah wah Im not going to talk to you anymore wah wah wah If hes going to act like a child, he can be treated as one.

peace

Madad21 said:

Did you actually read all i posted last night? I even answered your post from the other day.

Do you really think that I think its about winning, of course not, I just thought I would give the baby (nothead) his bottle.

No one wins in these arguments, never have never will, i said it before and Ive done it a million times, we go full circle all the way back to the beginning and do it all again from there.

Wah wah wah Im not going to talk to you anymore wah wah wah If hes going to act like a child, he can be treated as one.

peace

Click to expand...

I will take a look at your post and respond accordingly.

Purity

Biblical evidence of a Triune God

- Only one God - The Bible tells us there is only one God (Deuteronomy 6:4 NIV) “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Besides him there is no other”;( Isaiah 44:6 )“This is what the Lord says—Israel’s King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.”

- Only God created - And he created everything (Genesis 1:1 NIV) “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth”.

- Only God saves – “Besides God there is no other saviour” (Isaiah 43:11 NIV) “I, even I, am the Lord, and apart from me there is no saviour.”

Jesus Christ
- Jesus created – (John 1:3) “Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.”
- Jesus Saves – (Acts 4:12) “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved."

The Holy Spirit
- Spirit created – (Job 33:4) “The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life.”
- Spirits role in Salvation – (Ephesians 1:13–14) “In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.”

All three in unity
- (Colossians 2:9) “For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,”
- (Matthew 28:19)“Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,”

This entire thread seems to read like "Can God create a boulder He can not lift?"

The accepted view of the Church verifies Jesus' divinity. Those who do not accept the divinity of the Christ are not in the Church, they are in a cult. This was/is the teaching given and sustained by the apostles. It is the heretical teachers that think themselves more intelligent than the Church and the God ordained councils that are wolves seeking to devour.

My Dad is bigger than your dad

The jw's sure can bust out those scriptures YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

But................they can never tell ya what God has done for them.

Probably cause.................they keep studying the blow up (doll) version.

God is alive and doing very well....Jesus is alive and doing very well...The Holy Spirit is alive and doing very well.

Hey.......if they just want to study them ALL THEIR LIVES by all means have at it.

But as for me and my house....................we experience God on a daily bases.

WE KNOW THE GOD WHOM YOU STUDY..........ALL YOU CAN DO ISTELL US ABOUT HIM.........WE CAN SHOW YOU HIM.

AND ONCE YOU MEET JESUS.......................YOU WILL SAY TO YOURSELF...................WHAT WAS I THINKING WITH ALL THIS JW STUFF.

AND YOU CAN TAKE THAT TRUTH TO THE BANK....

JW'S...........ALL TALK...TALK TALK TALKTALKTALKTALKTALKTALK..................BUT NO ACTION.

WHY????????????????THEY HAVE REMOVED THE POWER...........AND ONCE YOU REMOVE THE POWER...YOU ARE MERE SLAVES TO THE TEACHER.

US BORN AGAIN BRATHAS...........DON'T NEED TO BE TAUGHT AND TAUGHT AND TAUGHT AND TAUGHT.


WE ARE BEING SHOWN...UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL.


So while the jw's are dulling their swords (scriptures) on our steel walls..............we are on the front lines, healing the sick, helping the poor, casting out demon's, donating to who needs it, bringing men/women and children to God's lap.

We ar eliving the lives God created for us before we were born.

And yes.......you jw's can have this life (your life) now which was planned before you existed....it waits for you....

But this deep deep deep trance has you engulfed into believing you are the only way..........come on...just plain old common sense sayzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
otherwise.


You are living in death..and that's all you offer us. Been there done that.....................Born Again Christians have been set free from such bondage.

We know why you are so scared to ask Jesus into your life....................because you serve blindly the one who shares and dictates your fear.

Yep...............you would rather get all your teeth pulled........................sad...................I truly hurt for you......all you have are scriptures, rules, do's and dont's....Jesus can break those chains.......all you have to do is ask................

Can't believe a jw family wouldn't get help for their daughter who took ill..........she died.................all over the news.

For God's sake wake up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is just sick......and the jw's are fine with that....sick I tell you.....but who is laughing and laughing hard...........your true master satan.........time for you guys to grow a pair and shove a stick of dyno down its throat.

Like I've said before...................who cares if God is Jesus or this or that or michael is really Michelle..............meaningless...........total waste of your life

It's what the jw's believe that goes with these teachings that are from the pits of hell.

Come and meet....and I mean meet...............the God you study.

And one more thing
I know....I know...............Things were done in the past that were wrong and done by Christians.
I know...I know................Things are done today that are wrong and done by Christians.

AT LEAST I CAN SAY THAT ABOUT MY CLAN
BUT YOU CAN'T
I'M FREE...YOUR A SLAVE

justaname said:

This entire thread seems to read like "Can God create a boulder He can not lift?"

The accepted view of the Church verifies Jesus' divinity. Those who do not accept the divinity of the Christ are not in the Church, they are in a cult. This was/is the teaching given and sustained by the apostles. It is the heretical teachers that think themselves more intelligent than the Church and the God ordained councils that are wolves seeking to devour.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Thank you for caring again!

First and foremost the more damnable lies are in the Church (diverse statements of faith, ie, essentials) where it's more difficult to detect, and not so much the more obvious lies, eg, Jesus = / = God, outside in the so called "cults." Our obligation, for those that believe that Jesus = God, is to keep an eye on the Word so others don't tamper with it no matter what their beliefs are in/out of the Church.

Old Jack's eyeballing opinion

shturt678 said:

Thank you for caring again!

First and foremost the more damnable lies are in the Church (diverse statements of faith, ie, essentials) where it's more difficult to detect, and not so much the more obvious lies, eg, Jesus = / = God, outside in the so called "cults." Our obligation, for those that believe that Jesus = God, is to keep an eye on the Word so others don't tamper with it no matter what their beliefs are in/out of the Church.

Old Jack's eyeballing opinion

Click to expand...

Old Jack gets a big Christian hug for himself!

Truly......I appreciate all men who want to spar with the scriptures.....................but that is all it is...............
Like two men trying to hit the same nail with the same hammer...one left handed the other right handed.

jw's.............need to meet God................

Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo there are also Christians out there..that are actually in the same boat as the jw......but yet fight with them.

There are a lot of Christians............also.............who have never met their savior.......................they just stay warm and cosy where they are at.

JAMES 4:8 act on it.....go for it......draw nye and He will draw nye.

God is more than memorizing scriptures and hopin ya get them right.....................He waits to meet you.

Isn't that neat...Isn't that wonderful...Isn't that so easy?

Madad21 said:

The Holy Spirit
- Spirit created – (Job 33:4) “The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life.”

Click to expand...

Disappoints me to see a believer quote a verse which claims a truth but they are blinded to see it.

Holy Spirit = Breath Power of Yahweh.

Madad21 said:

Yes there is subjectivity but to infer is not just subjective its lack of knowledge. We have no need to play guessing games with whats in the text, subjectivity can come from inspecting the translations and all its elements, and it comes by way of context and in veiw of all we know is there in the black ad white. Only then should an assumption or an inferring be made. this is all obvious of course. What you have provided here is an argument but without scriptural backing. for example with what textual reasoning do you maintain your veiw?

This is where I stand



Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day

· Or "he was desirous to see my day", as the Syriac and Arabic versions rightly render the word; or "very desirous",

· we know the day of Christ, and how long he was here on earth; this whole time is called "his day"; this Abraham had a very great desire to see:

and he saw [it] and was glad;

Click to expand...

Agreed - Prophetically and through experience Abraham could see afar off.

· he saw it with faith and he saw it in the promise, that in his seed all the nations of the earth should be blessed. (Genesis 22:18) "and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me."
· he was promised a son, which was the beginning of the fulfilment and he laughed, and so his son was called Isaac, he saw him in the birth of his son Isaac and rejoiced, and therefore called his name Isaac, that is, "laughter":
· he saw also Christ and his day (being Christs day), this in the binding of Isaac and in the sacrifice of the ram.
· He saw the second person, the promised Messiah, in an human form, ( Genesis 18:2 ) “Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground.” This was all a matter of great joy to Abraham.

I am
· I AM, is the name of God,( Ex 3:14); it speaks his self-existence;
· he is the First and the Last,( Rev 1:8) "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."
· He was not only before Abraham, but before all worlds, (Pro 8:23) “From eternity I was appointed, from the beginning, from before there was land.” (John 1:1) “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
· As Mediator, he was the appointed Messiah, long before Abraham; the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, (Rev 13:8) “All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast--all whose names have not been written in the Lamb's book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.”
· The Lord Jesus was made of God Wisdom, Righteousness, Sanctification, and Redemption, to Adam, and Abel, and all that lived and died by faith in him, before Abraham.

For Abraham there was no need for prophetic visions of the future, he lived out the evidence and he saw Christ. This is in the text subjectivity is granted but where applied is the key.

Blessings

Click to expand...

So again you miss the point of what Christ is teaching - the focus is on how Abraham was able to see Christs day! Not to see Christ literally during his mortal days! Not even seeing one who is invisible but "afar off" - a later manifestation of the Father in a promised Son just likened to his son Isaac.

If Jesus could be seen by Abraham - I mean, actually see him through the eye of faith (by promise) then one can rightly say he pre-existed, not literally speaking, but in faithful vision.

See how the Apostle understood Jesus?

(Jesus) Who verily was "foreordained" before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, (1 Peter 1:20)

This would make no sense if Jesus pre-existed! No sense at all because we are spoken in the same language in Rom 8.

Jesus was known and designated or marked out beforehand: By promise here Gen 3:15; Rev 13:18. Not literally existing before his birth, because the same language is used of us: 1Pe 1:2; Rom 8:29.

Sorry Mazda but that is the correct interpretation of the matter - like it or not

Madad21, on 28 May 2014 - 4:54 PM, said:

Madad21 said:

The Holy Spirit
- Spirit created – (Job 33:4) “The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life.”

Click to expand...

Thank God for the breath He blew into us.

It's that last breath many have to worry about

MaDad... Breathe on....breathe on.............................When this kid takes his last breath......GLORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My family awaits my arrival

Purity said:

Disappoints me to see a believer quote a verse which claims a truth but they are blinded to see it.

Holy Spirit = Breath Power of Yahweh.


Agreed - Prophetically and through experience Abraham could see afar off.

So again you miss the point of what Christ is teaching - the focus is on how Abraham was able to see Christs day! Not to see Christ literally during his mortal days! Not even seeing one who is invisible but "afar off" - a later manifestation of the Father in a promised Son just likened to his son Isaac.

If Jesus could be seen by Abraham - I mean, actually see him through the eye of faith (by promise) then one can rightly say he pre-existed, not literally speaking, but in faithful vision.

See how the Apostle understood Jesus?

(Jesus) Who verily was "foreordained" before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, (1 Peter 1:20)

This would make no sense if Jesus pre-existed! No sense at all because we are spoken in the same language in Rom 8.

Jesus was known and designated or marked out beforehand: By promise here Gen 3:15; Rev 13:18. Not literally existing before his birth, because the same language is used of us: 1Pe 1:2; Rom 8:29.

Sorry Mazda but that is the correct interpretation of the matter - like it or not

Click to expand...

Thank you for your reply, I will have a chance to answer this tonight when I have more time, but just for now and just incase you have time can you please give me your take on Genesis 18:2

Thank you for your reply, I will have a chance to answer this tonight when I have more time, but just for now and just incase you have time can you please give me your take on Genesis 18:2

Click to expand...

Yes - been over this one many times.

1. Honest Trinitarians leave it untouched as being three angels
2. Dishonest Trinitarian infer Triad doctrine

Of course the three "men" proved to be angels, but for the moment that fact was hidden from the eyes of Abraham.

He saw three men who showed every sign of being weary and in need of refreshment, and he hastened to help them. This is implied by the word used to describe them, for it is the word enoshim (men), implying weak, mortal men. That is how they appeared to Abraham, and their condition excited his sympathy and sense of hospitality. See the use of the word in Psa 9:20

"And when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door" - This indicates his eagerness to help them. A very loving man was our Abraham!

"And bowed himself toward the ground"

Sadly this is where they try to force Trinity as some suggest, but because it was the normal form of greeting, indicating that the one concerned is at the service of the others, and that he was prepared to humble himself to do their bidding (see Gen 23:7; Gen 33:6-7; Gen 42:6 etc.).

So is it the greeting? or the number three? Well to answer this one must go to the NT for the answer. Abraham was "ignorant" of the identity of these three men.

See Heb 13:2.

And if you doubt Abraham is not in view then consider the Abraham references throughout Hebrews.

Heb_2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Heb_6:13 For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,
Heb_7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
Heb_7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
Heb_7:4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
Heb_7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
Heb_7:6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
Heb_7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
Heb_11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Heb_11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

And these are only the ones where he is referred to by name - if you would like more just ask.

P.

Purity said:

Disappoints me to see a believer quote a verse which claims a truth but they are blinded to see it.

Holy Spirit = Breath Power of Yahweh.


Agreed - Prophetically and through experience Abraham could see afar off.

So again you miss the point of what Christ is teaching - the focus is on how Abraham was able to see Christs day! Not to see Christ literally during his mortal days! Not even seeing one who is invisible but "afar off" - a later manifestation of the Father in a promised Son just likened to his son Isaac.

If Jesus could be seen by Abraham - I mean, actually see him through the eye of faith (by promise) then one can rightly say he pre-existed, not literally speaking, but in faithful vision.

See how the Apostle understood Jesus?

(Jesus) Who verily was "foreordained" before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, (1 Peter 1:20)

This would make no sense if Jesus pre-existed! No sense at all because we are spoken in the same language in Rom 8.

Jesus was known and designated or marked out beforehand: By promise here Gen 3:15; Rev 13:18. Not literally existing before his birth, because the same language is used of us: 1Pe 1:2; Rom 8:29.

Sorry Mazda but that is the correct interpretation of the matter - like it or not

Click to expand...

What Abraham saw was the reality of God's promise to him through his faith. That's why he was saved. His faith was credited to him as righteousness. He accepted by faith, the reality of the promised Messiah. He and many many others from the OLD Covenant.
They didn't theologize it, they had faith and BELIEVED.

What Abraham saw was the reality of God's promise to him through his faith. That's why he was saved. His faith was credited to him as righteousness. He accepted by faith, the reality of the promised Messiah. He and many many others from the OLD Covenant.
They didn't theologize it, they had faith and BELIEVED.

Click to expand...

No problem with this Stan - however the lesson is clear; the "I am" is speaking of Jesus being believed upon by faith and not that he pre-existed.

P.

Purity;
1. Honest Trinitarians leave it untouched as being three angels
2. Dishonest Trinitarian infer Triad doctrine

Floyd.
Gen. 18:2.
This is not a debate. it is a statement!
Your DISHONEST comment on the above, is not followed by the rest of the chapter, why not?
A "man"; your word, cannot promise and give a "child of miracle" 18:10.

I am amazed that so many people are sucked in by your deceit!

As you know; you were cornered a few days ago by words from Floyd; which you have consistently refused to answer.

vis.


Purity, on 24 May 2014 - 01:04 AM, said:

Purity said:

If only you had 39 books to support your notions but you haven't one.

Click to expand...

I only need one; The Bible!

It states clearly that God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; which is where your apostasy is!
Watching your weasel words is like reading Gen..and Satan's words to Eve; "surely thou shalt not die"!
Ahh. but of course; you don't believe in Satan do you?
That means he never tempted Eve!
That means in your "theology" God introduced temptation and evil!???
That of course would not hold water! So where now your theology?

You say you "praise God regularly"; that means (if you tell the truth), that you "worship in spirit and in truth ( Jhn.4:23-24), unless the "one" you worship, is one of those that Jesus warned would be evident (false Christ's).
You said in an earlier post that you treat the Holy Spirit in the same way as Christ Jesus; ie deny their Deity!
In that case; you cannot "worship in spirit and in truth"; as "God is Spirit"!???


You talk above about "honest and dishonest Trinitarians".

How about you; "an honest JW or Unitarian", answering the questions I gave you; which have you running?

Also; explain the rest of Gen.18, for the rest of those watching; but not yet convinced of your true self ("surely thou shalt not die")!

Floyd.