Conversation with An Atheist

Mancunian · Tuesday at 3:02 PM

RLT63 said:
I have many questions and sometimes doubt about things in the Bible but I have no doubt that Jesus is the Son of God and that he died for me and rose from the dead

And that's great, I'm glad that you have a strong faith in Jesus and from what I've seen from you have your head screwed on.
I'm guessing here but I'm betting that because of your time in law enforcement you've seen the darker side of life. It's good to think that there's something else, something more than this. Hold onto that.

Wrangler · Tuesday at 3:11 PM

Mancunian said:
In fact I'm interested in what makes Christians so sure of their positions

In short, experience. Imagine if the Creator of the universe came down from heaven to talk to you by. How could you doubt? That happened. Yet, you don’t believe.

Mancunian · Tuesday at 3:30 PM

Wrangler said:
In short, experience. Imagine if the Creator of the universe came down from heaven to talk to you by. How could you doubt? That happened. Yet, you don’t believe.

The Bible said that happened. The creator of the universe surely wouldn't have appeared only to a few people in a region that was known to be largely illiterate at the time and relied on oral tradition to prove his existence.

If indeed the creator of the universe loved us and wanted us to be saved for eternity there would be irrefutable proof, if the creator of the universe wants us to rely on faith then he knows full well that people will perish. This being is all knowing and all powerful according to the Bible, so if that is the case why go about it in such a way that people like me and millions of others don't believe?

The only conclusion that I can draw from this is, the God of the Bible isn't loving and wants people to perish, even good people.

Mancunian · Tuesday at 3:50 PM

I would like to believe that Homosapiens are in some way special but I don't see it. We are just a product of nature and environment just like horses and starfish.
As average sized land mammals go, we have done ok, we've figured out a sophisticated means of communication, much like the whale population, we've learnt to build homes much like bees beavers and badgers, we are social creatures like elephants and wolves.
We protect our young and our territories like the rest of the animal kingdom.

Because our brains are highly evolved and we have a certain amount of intelligence that doesn't mean we are special, it means that we have highly evolved brains.

We are pattern seekers, we want to know things, we are not satisfied with not knowing things.

Wrangler · Tuesday at 4:03 PM

Mancunian said:
The Bible said that happened.

I’m not talking about a book. The same with sin, people making immoral choices. Maybe I missed it but I asked if you recognize that.

The answer to the question of why I believe so strongly is that I had an experience with the living God. It’s not about what a book says to start. Once your on the path of righteousness, THEN the book becomes a time tested guide for you along the path.

Mancunian · Tuesday at 4:24 PM

Wrangler said:
I’m not talking about a book. The same with sin, people making immoral choices. Maybe I missed it but I asked if you recognize that.

The answer to the question of why I believe so strongly is that I had an experience with the living God. It’s not about what a book says to start. Once your on the path of righteousness, THEN the book becomes a time tested guide for you along the path.

Ok I understand.
The closest that I have been to having an experience with God was one day in summer years ago, me and my wife were in our car driving to see her parents.
We got onto the subject of religion for some reason, I remember that it was a hot sunny day, we had the windows down on the car and music playing on the radio. Hallelujah came on immediately when the subject came up which I found a little strange, then from nowhere a thunderstorm.
We looked at eachother and put it down to coincidence.

It didn't immediately bring Jesus to mind but it was rather strange.

Wrangler · Tuesday at 4:30 PM

Mancunian said:
The creator of the universe surely wouldn't have appeared only to a few people in a region that was known to be largely illiterate at the time and relied on oral tradition to prove his existence.

Once again, you’re imposing your morality onto your Creator. What’s odd is that your morality trumps your metaphysics. Surely, a Creator would not require evolution to take so much time to prove evolution …

Wrangler · Tuesday at 4:35 PM

Mancunian said:
Ok I understand.
The closest that I have been to having an experience with God was one day in summer years ago, me and my wife were in our car driving to see her parents.

And what about recognizing people make immoral choices?

Mancunian · Tuesday at 4:39 PM

Does anyone here want to talk about the possibility that God created the universe, but not for the benefit of mankind specifically?
That hypothesis would tie in with science. God created the conditions for life to exist but with no expectations from his creation.
Every species has a chance to survive.
It would tie in with the existence of prehistoric creatures and evolution, it would allign with the laws of mathematics and physics with no need for faith or religion.

No reward, no price to pay... Just the chance to live and experience creation.

Mancunian · Tuesday at 4:41 PM

Wrangler said:
And what about recognizing people make immoral choices?

Morality is subjective and evolving.

Mancunian · Tuesday at 4:56 PM

@Wrangler
The church in the UK has been forced to apologise to unmarried mothers who's babies were taken away from them because sex before marriage was seen as immoral. This proves that there has been a shift in attitude.

Sex before marriage is not viewed by some people as being immoral but is by others... That proves that morality is subjective.

Some churches now bless same sex marriages and conduct services. Gay clergy conduct Sunday worship and so on.

The church is moving with the times, I wish that some of the congregation would too.

Mancunian · Tuesday at 5:00 PM

@Wrangler
The church in the UK has been forced to apologise to unmarried mothers who's babies were taken away from them because sex before marriage was seen as immoral. This proves that there has been a shift in attitude.

Sex before marriage is not viewed by some people as being immoral but is by others... That proves that morality is subjective.

Some churches now bless same sex marriages and conduct services. Gay clergy conduct Sunday worship and so on.

The church is moving with the times, I wish that some of the congregation would too

Wrangler said:
Once again, you’re imposing your morality onto your Creator. What’s odd is that your morality trumps your metaphysics. Surely, a Creator would not require evolution to take so much time to prove evolution …

That depends on the creator.

Mancunian · Tuesday at 5:01 PM

Oops those quote tags :)

Mancunian · Tuesday at 5:07 PM

If the creator isn't interested in my sex life or whether or not I believe, then I can get on board.
If on the other hand he's monitoring my every thought and misstep then I'd have to question his motives, and that is exactly what I've done for all of my life.

Mancunian · Tuesday at 5:26 PM

Nobody is living the life that Jesus preached nobody.
Love thy neighbour as you love yourself.
Turn the other cheek, be humble, give to the poor.
Christianity is mixed up. People turning up at church in their Audis and Range Rovers on a Sunday to tick a box.
Not being accepting or charitable, thinking only about themselves.
I think that the Jesus I've read about would be disgusted.
I think that the Jesus I've read about would walk away from modern day Christianity.

RLT63 · Tuesday at 6:01 PM

Mancunian said:
Nobody is living the life that Jesus preached nobody.
Love thy neighbour as you love yourself.
Turn the other cheek, be humble, give to the poor.
Christianity is mixed up. People turning up at church in their Audis and Range Rovers on a Sunday to tick a box.
Not being accepting or charitable, thinking only about themselves.
I think that the Jesus I've read about would be disgusted.
I think that the Jesus I've read about would walk away from modern day Christianity.

Ghandi said he might be a Christian if he had ever met one. He had met many people who claimed to be

Mancunian · Tuesday at 6:14 PM

I know that you all have an opinion of me and that's fine. This is the internet after all.
It's funny though how impressions of people are formed.
Just because I have the label atheist attached to me I think that people here were expecting me to be arrogant and condescending like our friend Richard Dawkins, I'm hoping that from my posts you don't view me like that.
Honestly, I can see the appeal of being part of something, the fellowship and so on. I can see the hope that it brings to you all and in that respect it's a good thing.
My worldview differs from yours but I know that you are all here for the right reasons, to be part of something, for the fellowship.

I genuinely wish each and every one of you all the best for your futures.

CrowCross · Tuesday at 9:14 PM

Mancunian said:
Complexity of organisms on this planet came with time. The world is very different now from when the first single celled organisms appeared.

After all the aliens did seed the planet.

CrowCross · Tuesday at 9:15 PM

Mancunian said:
I've said that all along.

Yes, aliens.

CrowCross · Tuesday at 9:17 PM

Mancunian said:
I know that you all have an opinion of me and that's fine. This is the internet after all.
It's funny though how impressions of people are formed.
Just because I have the label atheist attached to me I think that people here were expecting me to be arrogant and condescending like our friend Richard Dawkins, I'm hoping that from my posts you don't view me like that.
Honestly, I can see the appeal of being part of something, the fellowship and so on. I can see the hope that it brings to you all and in that respect it's a good thing.
My worldview differs from yours but I know that you are all here for the right reasons, to be part of something, for the fellowship.

I genuinely wish each and every one of you all the best for your futures.

To be honest I've found your post to be very condescending.

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