"Free" Will

StanJ · Nov 25, 2015

newbirth said:
OK show me the scripture that says ..."Jesus is the incarnate God, born fully human...so he can be both God and the Son" and I amnot asking anyone to listen to me ...I am saying listen to the scripture...

Already have...MANY times....scriptures is NOT about what you want it to say, in your words, it's about what it does say. If you only see half of it, then you see NONE of it.

BTW, when exactly were you born again? I ask because of your user name.

Barrd · Nov 26, 2015

newbirth said:
every scripture here says God is the Father of Jesus....Jesus himself said He ascend to his God and his Father...making it abundantly there is one God the Father...and one Lord Jesus Christ his Son
So the error is in your understanding of the other scriptures...but you will reject the truth and believe a lie...

Romans 1:7
To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 15:6
That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Corinthians 1:3
Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;
2 Corinthians 11:31
The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.
Galatians 1:1
Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
Ephesians 1:17
That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
Ephesians 3:14
For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Philippians 2:11
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
1 Thessalonians 1:1
Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Thessalonians 3:13
To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
2 Thessalonians 1:1
Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:
2 John 1:3
Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

Here is a scripture you have forgotten, NB:

Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Now, could you explain to me, please, just Who it was that purchased the church with His own blood?

logabe · Nov 27, 2015

newbirth said:
you are inferring ...nothing says..."Jesus is God" ....you deny there is one God the Father....where is the scripture that says..."Jesus is God"....as I showed you the scripture that says "Jesus is the Son of God.."
you take verses and say they teach or mean what they do not say....it is not my fault your mind is feeble

Rev. 1:8 says,

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who
was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

I think a first grader could understand that.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

Wormwood · Nov 27, 2015

newbirth said:
you cannot start your explanation with something that is not in scripture...so don't tell me I have to remember..."Jesus is the incarnate God, born fully human...so he can be both God and the Son" that is not a part of scripture....your misunderstanding of the verses lead you to say Jesus is God...there is one God and Paul is saying that God is the God of Jesus...how do you explain
Jesus also being God in that scenario???
Ephesians 1:17
That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

I am starting my explanation by reminding you what Trinitarians believe, since you keep misrepresenting the doctrine and claiming it doesn't fit with Scripture. My point was simply that, as a Trinitarian, there is no conflict between Jesus being both God and Son. You keep derailing my comments to keep from answering them. I assume it is because you do not have an answer.

Born_Again · Nov 27, 2015

newbirth said:
every scripture here says God is the Father of Jesus....Jesus himself said He ascend to his God and his Father...making it abundantly there is one God the Father...and one Lord Jesus Christ his Son
So the error is in your understanding of the other scriptures...but you will reject the truth and believe a lie...

Romans 1:7
To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 15:6
That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Corinthians 1:3
Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;
2 Corinthians 11:31
The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.
Galatians 1:1
Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
Ephesians 1:17
That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
Ephesians 3:14
For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Philippians 2:11
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
1 Thessalonians 1:1
Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Thessalonians 3:13
To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
2 Thessalonians 1:1
Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:
2 John 1:3
Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

Well, those certainly support a trinity. How do those show Jesus is God incarnate. Simple:

John 1:1-4

The Word Became Flesh
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.

newbirth · Nov 27, 2015

logabe said:
Rev. 1:8 says,

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who
was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

I think a first grader could understand that.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

it does not say Jesus is God...
the portions of scripture where we differ in views cannot solve this dilemma....so let us use one where the statement is clear and concise...

John 17:1-4King James Version (KJV)
1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

here we have Jesus clearing the air on this matter...He is speaking to the father and calls the father the only true God...which exempts everyone else from being the true God.
And what does Lord God really mean???

newbirth · Nov 27, 2015

Born_Again said:
Well, those certainly support a trinity. How do those show Jesus is God incarnate. Simple:

John 1:1-4
The Word Became Flesh
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.

it does not .teach Jesus is God.....you want it to.... but if you believe Jesus then you have no problem...

John 17:1-4King James Version (KJV)
1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Do you believe Jesus???

newbirth · Nov 27, 2015

Wormwood said:
I am starting my explanation by reminding you what Trinitarians believe, since you keep misrepresenting the doctrine and claiming it doesn't fit with Scripture. My point was simply that, as a Trinitarian, there is no conflict between Jesus being both God and Son. You keep derailing my comments to keep from answering them. I assume it is because you do not have an answer.

And trinitarians believe that which is not in scripture...but you cannot dump it on me simply because trinitarians believe it...Jesus never claim to be God and Son...
Here is what Jesus said...

John 17:1-4King James Version (KJV)
1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

It is clear the Father is the only true God...anyone else you call God is a false God...including the trinity...

StanJ · Nov 27, 2015

newbirth said:
it does not .teach Jesus is God.....you want it to.... but if you believe Jesus then you have no problem...
John 17:1-4King James Version (KJV)
1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Do you believe Jesus???

The questions is do you, and why do you not believe what He did say about He and God being one and the same?

Read John 1:18 newbirth and stop cherry picking scripture to suit your dogma.
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

Born_Again · Nov 27, 2015

So, tell me, because I might be missing it, what does any of this have to do with Free Will? Hahahaha
seriously though......

Barrd · Nov 28, 2015

Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

So, Who purchased the church with His Own blood?
I was quite sure that it was Jesus....but here it says that it was God.
Now, if Jesus is not God, how do we reconcile this verse?

(Sometimes you have to repeat yourself in order to be heard.....especially when you are telling a truth some folks do not wish to hear...

newbirth · Nov 28, 2015

The Barrd said:
Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

So, Who purchased the church with His Own blood?
I was quite sure that it was Jesus....but here it says that it was God.
Now, if Jesus is not God, how do we reconcile this verse?

(Sometimes you have to repeat yourself in order to be heard.....especially when you are telling a truth some folks do not wish to hear...

First of all...does God have blood??? Jesus is the offspring of God.....the only begotten of the Father.....God made his blood so it did belong to God......
what does Jesus have to say on this matter as to whether He is God or not?????

John 17:1-4King James Version (KJV)
1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Jesus is saying the only true God sent Him...which indicates He is not he only true God,since he did not send himself...and it is the only true God who gave Him his power...

Born_Again · Nov 28, 2015

Okay, sarcasm didn't work. So, let me be more direct. Please bring this back around to the OP. Thanks!

God Bless,

BA

logabe · Nov 28, 2015

newbirth said:
it does not say Jesus is God...
the portions of scripture where we differ in views cannot solve this dilemma....so let us use one where the statement is clear and concise...

John 17:1-4King James Version (KJV)
1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

here we have Jesus clearing the air on this matter...He is speaking to the father and calls the father the only true God...which exempts everyone else from being the true God.
And what does Lord God really mean???

Isa. 12:2 says,

2 “Behold, God is my salvation, I will trust and not be afraid;
For the Lord God is my strength and song, and He has become
my salvation.”

Wonder how He did that?

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

newbirth · Nov 28, 2015

logabe said:
Isa. 12:2 says,

2 “Behold, God is my salvation, I will trust and not be afraid;
For the Lord God is my strength and song, and He has become
my salvation.”

Wonder how He did that?

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

My friend that does not say" Jesus is God"...if you really want to post a scripture that means "Jesus is God."..why don't you post one that says "Jesus is God"

Barrd · Nov 28, 2015

newbirth said:
First of all...does God have blood??? Jesus is the offspring of God.....the only begotten of the Father.....God made his blood so it did belong to God......
what does Jesus have to say on this matter as to whether He is God or not?????
John 17:1-4King James Version (KJV)
1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Jesus is saying the only true God sent Him...which indicates He is not he only true God,since he did not send himself...and it is the only true God who gave Him his power...

I hate to say this, but BA is right. I believe there is a thread for discussing the Trinity, and whether you believe in it or not, and this is not that thread.

This one is about "free will" and whether or not everything we do or say has been pre-orrdained, or programmed into us. In other words, is your objection to the Trinity your own, or did God put those words into your mouth before you were even conceived?

Born_Again · Nov 28, 2015

The Barrd said:
I hate to say this, but BA is right. I believe there is a thread for discussing the Trinity, and whether you believe in it or not, and this is not that thread.

This one is about "free will" and whether or not everything we do or say has been pre-orrdained, or programmed into us. In other words, is your objection to the Trinity your own, or did God put those words into your mouth before you were even conceived?

Oh man, I need to print this and frame it!

Thanks, Barrd!

Born_Again · Nov 28, 2015

In all seriousness though, this is a good way to get a thread locked. Obviously the "Free Will" part has run its course. Last time, back to Free Will.

newbirth · Nov 28, 2015

The Barrd said:
I hate to say this, but BA is right. I believe there is a thread for discussing the Trinity, and whether you believe in it or not, and this is not that thread.

This one is about "free will" and whether or not everything we do or say has been pre-orrdained, or programmed into us. In other words, is your objection to the Trinity your own, or did God put those words into your mouth before you were even conceived?

so why do you Guys post those comments...I am a respondent in most cases...even the moderator was in on it...but if I am to be blamed so be it...I am using my free will to request the thread to be closed...And for the record you did it again Barrd...you are posting pseudo freewill questions that are really trinity questions and telling me this is not the trinity thread...

StanJ · Nov 28, 2015

Born_Again said:
Oh man, I need to print this and frame it! Thanks, Barrd!

:lol:

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