It's unfortunate Christianity has historically faced significant barriers in Japan

Wrangler · Wednesday at 7:46 PM

Riven said:
Really? Then please explain to me why the US Navy is still blockading the country.

Proof that Iran has been defeated IS that the US Navy is blockading the country. How long did it take the US to leave Germany after WWII in 1945? Oh wait! We're still there 80 years later!

Riven · Wednesday at 10:17 PM

Wrangler said:
Proof that Iran has been defeated IS that the US Navy is blockading the country. How long did it take the US to leave Germany after WWII in 1945? Oh wait! We're still there 80 years later!

Germany surrendered unconditionally. Iran has not.

Wrangler · Thursday at 10:54 AM

Riven said:
Germany surrendered unconditionally. Iran has not.

Yup. The German military reported to the civilian authorities. Iran is a country but each military province is functioning independent of a central political authority. Still defeated.

Your position is kind of like claiming that words dictate reality. As long as they don't admit defeat, then they're not defeated is a way of thinking contrary to the reality on the ground.

Riven · Thursday at 1:20 PM

Wrangler said:
Yup. The German military reported to the civilian authorities. Iran is a country but each military province is functioning independent of a central political authority. Still defeated.

Your position is kind of like claiming that words dictate reality. As long as they don't admit defeat, then they're not defeated is a way of thinking contrary to the reality on the ground.

An Iranian victory consists of the regime staying in power. The regime is still in power. An American defeat consists of the regime remaining in power and the nuclear material remaining intact.

The United States has failed to achieve both objectives, and can't risk escalation due to Iran's unchecked ability to fire ballistic missiles at any target in the region. US military bases that have either been severely damaged, or outright destroyed by Iranian missiles, tells our Arab partners in the region, like the Saudis, that we can't protect them from an Iranian attack.

And there's also the issue of the American military burning through it's stockpiles of advanced munitions in the first 40 days of bombing. It's having to ration interceptor missles, something president Zelensky isn't particularly happy about. Israel of course gets priority, but even they're not happy with the amount they have in stock.

But this is what happens when you engage in wars on multiple fronts all over the world. You spread your resources too thin. Now we just have to hope North and South Korea don't get into a war, or China deciding that now is a good time to try to take Taiwan.

Wrangler · Thursday at 1:25 PM

Riven said:
An Iranian victory consists of the regime staying in power. The regime is still in power.

Here is a great example of a standard designed to fail. Besides the fact that I suspect you meant to include a NOT in the first sentence, do you apply that to other wars, such as the American War of Independence, where the King of England stayed in power? How about the war of 1812, where again the King of England stayed in power?

Perhaps you'll concede that Iran did not win the war against America since the Trump regime is still in power?

Riven · Thursday at 2:01 PM

Wrangler said:
Here is a great example of a standard designed to fail. Besides the fact that I suspect you meant to include a NOT in the first sentence, do you apply that to other wars, such as the American War of Independence, where the King of England stayed in power? How about the war of 1812, where again the King of England stayed in power?

No. Because the conditions of those wars were different. The Americans were not fighting to overthrow the king of England.

Wrangler said:
Perhaps you'll concede that Iran did not win the war against America since the Trump regime is still in power?

If anything, I would argue the results of the midterms were a victory for Iran. It signaled to them, and to the rest of the world, that the American people disapprove of this war and want it to end. It lends credibility to the idea that there's no appetite for a prolonged conflict, much less a "nuclear strike" if the reports are true that it's being actively discussed in the Pentagon.

Furthermore, on a more basic level, the Iranians never set out to remove the Trump administration from power. Removing Trump from power doesn't mean Iran wins the war.

In order to win, all they have to do is survive long enough for the Trump admin to conclude that leaving is preferable to staying. It's a similar strategy to what Putin is doing in Ukraine. He believes the Trump admin, and the American people by extension, will eventually tire of funding a war of attrition that has no end in sight.

Wrangler · Thursday at 3:00 PM

Riven said:
No. Because the conditions of those wars were different.

Right. This thread is about Christianity in Japan, which is different from you bashing American political leaders.

marks · Thursday at 5:00 PM

Deus vult said:
I've never been to Japan, but I really dig Japanese culture and Japanese cuisine is my favorite. Apparently 'harmony' is so central to Japanese culture...so much so that Christianity's exclusivity created a disturbance historically. Just 1% of Japan is Christian. There's a Japanese saying that the nail that sticks out the most is the one that gets hammered. Christianity sticks out because it is fundamentally concerned with Absolute Truth. There were rulers like Toyotomi Hideyoshi and later the Tokugawa Shogunate who grew suspicious of foreign political control and cultural disruption. They launched public executions and banned Christianity.

The only major religions in Japan are Shinto and Buddhism, but they're mostly nominal, ingrained in their tradition. There's a saying that you're born Shinto, marry a Christian/atheist, and die a Buddhist. You're born a Shinto because infants are brought to a local Shinto shrine where they are introduced to the 'kami' (spirits). They die a Buddhist because 90% of funerals are conducted in Buddhist temples, but it's mostly just tradition. The funny thing is that the Japanese love Christian aesthetics, many of them like to have Christian-style weddings.

Anyone got anything to add?

Have you seen the movie "Silence"? I found it incredibly moving on a number of levels.

Debp · Thursday at 8:18 PM

marks said:
Have you seen the movie "Silence"? I found it incredibly moving on a number of levels.

I saw that movie several years ago, recommend it.

Trailer.

Full movie, free on YouTube. Click on watch on YouTube.

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It's unfortunate Christianity has historically faced significant barriers in Japan

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